Will the FZ20 do what I want ??

[bigbikes2003]

Hi everybody.
Just wondering if you guys can give me some advice please. I have been making enjuiries into buying a digital camera that will take great sports photo's. I have two tenagers that play in a high level Basketball comp, and as you can imagine its quite a fast moving sport.
What I have been looking for is a camera that will take great photos of the kids without any blur (inside a stadium, so its not all natural light) as well as just normal everyday photo's as well.
Ive been advised to but the FZ20, which Ive been reading up on.
Can you guys please advise me.
Is this the best camera for what I want? and of course will it do what I want?
I am far from being an expert on photography, so i also need a fairly easy to use camera as well.
Also would anyone be able to show me any photos of any sporting events that they may have as well.
Sorry guys 1 more thing.were is the best place to buy one from?
Thx guys for your advise.
Much appreciated
Regards
Peter

bridgess@bigpond.net.au

[Ed W]

Hi Peter,

The first thing you need to do is decide on your spending limit. The best camera for what you want is the Canon 1D mark II with, say, a 100-400 f/4.5-5.6 IS lens, but that combination will set you back about $10,000.

More realistically, if you have the money, I'd advise you to buy a real DSLR like the Canon 20D or the new 350D and invest in a set of quality lenses (which are much more important than the camera body).

Back to the FZ20. In terms of what I think is desirable for sports:

Autofocus Speed & Accuracy: The most critical thing that the camera must do is focus quickly and accurately. Moreover, for sports, the camera must be able to track subjects while they're in motion. This means that the camera should have a continuous autofocus mode, which the FZ20 does. If your kid's basketball games are played indoors, the camera must also be able to focus quickly in low light (meaning indoor light). If the camera can't focus and track fast enough, you may as well leave it at home.

Reach: Seeing as how you're on the sidelines, you need to be able to zoom into where the action is. The FZ20's 432mm is quite respectable.

Shutter Lag: The time it takes for the camera to take the shot. The FZ20 reportedly has a 1 second delay here. You might not think so, but a 1 second delay is not really that great when you're trying to capture action. As an example, someone who is running can cover between 5-10 metres per second. I've not used this camera, so I don't know how fast the actual speed is. You might be able to live with it.

Burst Rate: How many shots the camera will take continuously, and how many before it's buffer fills up. You'd want the camera to be able to shoot continuously as fast as possible for as many frames as possible. The FZ20 has three modes: Continuous (2.2FPS until the card is filled), Continuous L (2.15 FPS for 7 frames) and Continuous H: 3 frames per second for 4 frames. So in it's fastest mode, you can shoot 3 frames per second for 1.2 seconds. Then you apparently have to release the shutter release and press it down again to refocus and shoot another burst. You'd probably get used to this, but I think I'd find it highly annoying. Otherwise you get to shoot at 2.2 fps, which is pretty slow. I'd say this is the least desirable aspect of the camera.

One other thing to note is the refresh rate of the electronic viewfinder. Look through it and wave your hand past the lens. If you see a noticeable delay, then you may also have to factor this in when you're taking your shots.

Hope this helps.

[dnas]

I have an FZ-10, and the shutter lag is nowhere near 1 second.

If you have to focus AND shoot, the lag is 0.9 seconds. This is normal, particularly for ultrazooms, and you have to take this into account for ANY camera. If you prefocus, then the lag time is just 0.2 seconds.

One thing you have to take into account is the amount of light. It doesn't matter if a camera has OIS, or sports modes, etc, if the light is dim, then the shutter speeds will be slow. That means the motion of the PLAYERS is the most important thing, and there is very little you can do about it.

If you select a high ISO (e.g. 400) then the shutter speeds will be faster, but the shots will have more noise.

e.g. It's possible that you might only have enough light for 1/15 sec, so you will not get blur free shots if the action is fast.

[Ed W]

Good to know that the shutter lag isn't significant.


One thing you have to take into account is the amount of light. It doesn't matter if a camera has OIS, or sports modes, etc, if the light is dim, then the shutter speeds will be slow. That means the motion of the PLAYERS is the most important thing, and there is very little you can do about it.


Not quite true. For freezing any kind of action you should set the camera to shutter priority. Note that the 1/focal length rule may apply, but you should be fairly safe with a shutter speed of 1/125s or faster. If you have to increase the ISO, it's better to do that than to decrease the shutter speed. You can use noise removing utilities such as neatimage to clean the photos up.

[dnas]

Good to know that the shutter lag isn't significant.



Not quite true. For freezing any kind of action you should set the camera to shutter priority. Note that the 1/focal length rule may apply, but you should be fairly safe with a shutter speed of 1/125s or faster. If you have to increase the ISO, it's better to do that than to decrease the shutter speed. You can use noise removing utilities such as neatimage to clean the photos up.

I've shot sports indoors, and when the light level is low, you may not be able to GET shutter speeds faster then 1/8 or 1/15 sec at ISO 100.

The 1/focal length rule applies to HAND SHAKE. If you use a tripod, you eliminate that rule.

If you up the ISO from 100 to 400, and the light is low you may only get the shutter speeds from 1/8 up to 1/30 sec, which is still too slow for basketball action.

PS. I used to be a camera technician.

*****
Bigbikes,
The FZ-20 has a constant F2.8, which is fast for an ultrazoom. If you're fairly close to the action, then you might want to consider one of the digicams with a faster lens (e.g. F2.0) This will give you an extra stop of speed (e.g. 1/15 instead of 1/8) I'd borrow a friend's camera, set it to aperture priority, and select the biggest aperture, and set the ISO to 100. Then check out shutter speeds you're getting. If it's F2.8 and 1/125sec then there's no problem. If it's around 1/8sec, then the only thing I could suggest is to look at a Digital SLR. Because the CCD/CMOS sensor is a lot bigger, the "noise" is a lot less. You could set it to ISO400 or ISO800 for a fast shutter speed. e.g. if it was 1/15sec at ISO100, then it would be 1/125 at ISO800.

[Ed W]

I guess I wasn't very clear. :(

I've shot sports indoors, and when the light level is low, you may not be able to GET shutter speeds faster then 1/8 or 1/15 sec at ISO 100.
Yes, I agree that this would be the case. However, my comment was that you should be able to capture motion if you can get a shutter speed of 1/125s or faster. I never said anything about ISO 100. I said that it's better to shoot at a higher ISO than to decrease the shutter speed.

If the games are all in locations with no natural light and dim indoor lights, then I would agree that you would need an ISO setting faster than 400 (which is the FZ20's limit) or a lens that is faster than f/2.8.

However, I'd think that the combination for this is not a camera that most people would be willing to pay for. eg, a 20D with a 70-200 f/2.8 IS would be somewhere close to the $6,000 range. Even better would be a 135 f/2 or some other lens that's long and fast (like the discontinued 200 f/1.8). Unfortunately, they're all very expensive lenses.

I don't know anything about P&S cameras, so I have no idea what an equivalent would be.

The 1/focal length rule applies to HAND SHAKE. If you use a tripod, you eliminate that rule.
The FZ20 has an image stabilized lens. Hence the 1/focal length rule may apply, or it might not. It depends on how far you've zoomed out and how effective the system is. I simply do not know.

PS. I used to be a camera technician.
Huh? I didn't say that you didn't know what you're talking about, but if that's the way I came across then I apologise. For myself, I know a lot about Canon cameras and lenses (which is why I use them as examples), but not much about anything else.

The point I was trying to make was that there are things that you can do even if the light is dim. Sorry if I didn't make it very clear. I should have cropped the quote to "there is very little you can do about it". I guess that's what I get for replying in a hurry.

Anyway, here's what I would try. Set the camera to shutter priority (Tv) mode. Set shutter speed to around 1/125s. Set the fastest ISO possible. If it's still 1 or maybe 2 stops under, the photo can be still be saved in photoshop using levels & curves adjustments and shadow recovery. If the shots are very noisy, use neatimage or desaturate them and they'll come good as B&W.