Speaker Cabinets

[bassett]

I am not always correct, I am quite often wrong, but I fail to see how
your ears can be that good, that you can hear the difference between
Cardboard and solid cabinets.

My argument is not with cardboard, presa, but with quality in construction,
value for money, etc.

Manufacturers build with the idea of minimum outlay for maximum profit.
Frank Bose was and still is an expert in that respect. Manufacturers also
have to consider the availability of materials and construction time. which
equals profit, If a manufacturer, only built one off's, construction costs
would go through the roof.
But if you can get a truck load of MDF, and cut out for multi construction
the costs come down considerably. It becomes an assembly line.
Today we will cut out 2000 side panels, etc. Then they throw the
components in a jig and go round with an air powered staple gun, and in less
then 5 minutes you have a speaker cabinet, A child of 5 could do it. My
point is your not getting value for money, regardless of what the "Spin
Doctors " tell you. Tower speaker cabinets cost the same regardless of
whether there retail value is a couple of thousand or mega dollars. and
production costs would be less then $50 each , for mass production units.
During the last war production costs for a 22 litre Gerry Cans was 4 cents
each.
..
But now try going out and obtaining a truck load of cabinet timber,
Tallowwood, Sallywattle, Rosewood, Cedar, Cherrywood, These timbers are all
but gone, unless you live in an area where this timber is available, at a
reasonable price.In the last set of speakers I built, I acquired 50 odd
meters of Sallywattle boards 5 inches across and 5/8 if an inch thick, I got
them put through a thicknesser, and the edges machined for joining. When
the panels where completed they where screwed from the inside out through a
hardwood chassis. There's 150 tech screws in each speaker cabinet, plus all
joints and where timbers cross are glued.

They took me 2 months to complete, But time does not matter when your
doing them for yourself, I would be lucky to make 4 sets a year,

I liked your comments and I quote, That's interesting solid timer looks
great but with all its in hearent imperfections, lack of uniformity and
denisty across the entire section will invarably colour the sound. Unquote.

That is the greatest load of shit I have ever heard, You must have the best
set of ears in Australia. and I doubt you would understand any form of
cabinet making, or the complex system of preparing timbers, or the years of
drying, and milling that goes into the finished product.

Plus the fact, that your ears are not that wonderful, even if your
ego is. Or do you think that, you just Toddle off one sunny day with a
Chainsaw, and cut down a friendly tree, run it through a sawmill, and
start production. Some of the people that I get my timbers from are 4th and
5th generation sawers. And believe be , when I tell you that they don't sell
there timbers to just anyone, It took me 6 months of begging, and other
friendly locals to obtain what I wanted. And it's not a question of money.

But I repeat my question, What did they use for Speaker Cabinets before MDF
came along.
Also I was not talking about Tannoy, who make some of the most robust
speaker cabinets, in there old range. But VAF, now market a speaker cabanit
made of REAL WOOD. In some strange way, they have overcome , your analogy of
"inhearent imperfections, lack of uniformity and denisty

As for my long ears, I had headphone implants when I was a Pup.

As for your Eyo, people that use that forum, all consider themselves above
everyone else, and at the end of the day the forum is only a parasite of
whatever news group, it obtains its posts from. If it was not for the
newsgroups, it would not survive, in any of its forms, simply because people
would not bother with it. It and the people that frequent it are
irrelevant.
Unfortunately, all newsgroups that are linked to it, have ALL the posts
reproduced there, and the writers have no bloody say or choice.
But the non-posters to EYO, when there words of wisdom are stolen, are
labled as "Guests" Simply Wonderfull.

bassett




"mttel" <mttel.1nbgeb@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
> My my you really are a defensive person aren't you.
>
> So any comments made that don't 100% wholeheartly agree with your view
> of the audio world are dismissed as being ignorant imbeciles and the
> authors berated accordingly. I'm stupid for suggesting that solid wood
> is not the holy grail of speaker cabinets and apparently you can
> explain everthing about me by the fact that I use my EYO mail address.
>
> Well I guess I just have to resort to your level.
>
> All hail the mighty 'basset' protector of the truth and hound of all
> knowledge. By the way do you after your name sake ie big ears, short
> legs and a long fat body. I'm guessing at least the bigger ears as
> that are obviously how you are able to make such observations.
> Obviously you can hear the difference between solid wood and cardbaord
> as you describe it.
>
> But then I just read one of your old posts your selection criteria for
> speaker is quote " With speakers, the bigger, the heaver, the better.
> Unless its a question ofspace, then go for some really nice
> bookshelves, 1k to 1.1/2k's should get you something really nice,
> Whatmouth, Tannoy, VAF, B &W."
>
> So lets see what we can find
> VAF we site, the signature series are made of "1st grade MDF" vary in
> thickness up to 52mm, the DC series from MDF and the icon from
> comoposite material.
>
> The whatmough web site quotes "The speaker cabinet should be rigid and
> inert. We use thick panels and extensive bracing on all our models."
> and then goes on to state that most of the speakers as being available
> in a range of real timber veneers. Can say with 100% certainty but I
> guess that rigid inert panel is MDF.
>
> I guess at least you were half right for Tannoy. Thier range of
> speakers includes real solid wood, ply and timber veneer finished
> speakers.
>
> If I'm delusional then I hate to think what you are.
>
>
> --
> mttel

bassett Wrote:
>> So what did they use before compressed cardboard , Stupid
>>
>> You really are deluding yourself, For a start your ears are not that
>> good .
>> Even if what you claim is correct, which it isn't.
>>
>> It,s a matter of cost in most cases [no pun intended] MDF is readily
>> available, Boards don't need joining, Complex woodworking skills are
>> not
>> required. Any wanker can fire a staple, into two bits of cardboard.
>> and
>> iron on a bit of veneer. Now you just pop down to the local Bunnings
>> store
>> and attempt to buy Cabinet Timbers, The best your going to get is
>> Pine.
>>
>> Now have a look at the new VAF speakers in Solid Timber, or are they
>> wrong
>> as well.
>> O I,ve just noticed , he uses a EYO e-mail address, That explains
>> everything.
>>
>> bassett
>> "mttel" <mttel.1n5ktn@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
>> >
>> > Thats interesting solid timer looks great but with all its in
>> hearent
>> > imperfections, lack of uniformity and denisty across the entire
>> section
>> > will invarably colour the sound. So not necessairly the holy grail
>> of
>> > speaker cabinet material
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > mttel

[mttel]

I am not always correct, I am quite often wrong, but I fail to see how
your ears can be that good, that you can hear the difference between
Cardboard and solid cabinets.

My argument is not with cardboard, presa, but with quality in construction,
value for money, etc.

Manufacturers build with the idea of minimum outlay for maximum profit.
Frank Bose was and still is an expert in that respect. Manufacturers also
have to consider the availability of materials and construction time. which
equals profit, If a manufacturer, only built one off's, construction costs
would go through the roof.
But if you can get a truck load of MDF, and cut out for multi construction
the costs come down considerably. It becomes an assembly line.
Today we will cut out 2000 side panels, etc. Then they throw the
components in a jig and go round with an air powered staple gun, and in less
then 5 minutes you have a speaker cabinet, A child of 5 could do it. My
point is your not getting value for money, regardless of what the "Spin
Doctors " tell you. Tower speaker cabinets cost the same regardless of
whether there retail value is a couple of thousand or mega dollars. and
production costs would be less then $50 each , for mass production units.
During the last war production costs for a 22 litre Gerry Cans was 4 cents
each.
..
But now try going out and obtaining a truck load of cabinet timber,
Tallowwood, Sallywattle, Rosewood, Cedar, Cherrywood, These timbers are all
but gone, unless you live in an area where this timber is available, at a
reasonable price.In the last set of speakers I built, I acquired 50 odd
meters of Sallywattle boards 5 inches across and 5/8 if an inch thick, I got
them put through a thicknesser, and the edges machined for joining. When
the panels where completed they where screwed from the inside out through a
hardwood chassis. There's 150 tech screws in each speaker cabinet, plus all
joints and where timbers cross are glued.

They took me 2 months to complete, But time does not matter when your
doing them for yourself, I would be lucky to make 4 sets a year,

I liked your comments and I quote, That's interesting solid timer looks
great but with all its in hearent imperfections, lack of uniformity and
denisty across the entire section will invarably colour the sound. Unquote.

That is the greatest load of shit I have ever heard, You must have the best
set of ears in Australia. and I doubt you would understand any form of
cabinet making, or the complex system of preparing timbers, or the years of
drying, and milling that goes into the finished product.

Plus the fact, that your ears are not that wonderful, even if your
ego is. Or do you think that, you just Toddle off one sunny day with a
Chainsaw, and cut down a friendly tree, run it through a sawmill, and
start production. Some of the people that I get my timbers from are 4th and
5th generation sawers. And believe be , when I tell you that they don't sell
there timbers to just anyone, It took me 6 months of begging, and other
friendly locals to obtain what I wanted. And it's not a question of money.

But I repeat my question, What did they use for Speaker Cabinets before MDF
came along.
Also I was not talking about Tannoy, who make some of the most robust
speaker cabinets, in there old range. But VAF, now market a speaker cabanit
made of REAL WOOD. In some strange way, they have overcome , your analogy of
"inhearent imperfections, lack of uniformity and denisty

As for my long ears, I had headphone implants when I was a Pup.

As for your Eyo, people that use that forum, all consider themselves above
everyone else, and at the end of the day the forum is only a parasite of
whatever news group, it obtains its posts from. If it was not for the
newsgroups, it would not survive, in any of its forms, simply because people
would not bother with it. It and the people that frequent it are
irrelevant.
Unfortunately, all newsgroups that are linked to it, have ALL the posts
reproduced there, and the writers have no bloody say or choice.
But the non-posters to EYO, when there words of wisdom are stolen, are
labled as "Guests" Simply Wonderfull.

bassett




"mttel" <mttel.1nbgeb@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
> My my you really are a defensive person aren't you.
>
> So any comments made that don't 100% wholeheartly agree with your view
> of the audio world are dismissed as being ignorant imbeciles and the
> authors berated accordingly. I'm stupid for suggesting that solid wood
> is not the holy grail of speaker cabinets and apparently you can
> explain everthing about me by the fact that I use my EYO mail address.
>
> Well I guess I just have to resort to your level.
>
> All hail the mighty 'basset' protector of the truth and hound of all
> knowledge. By the way do you after your name sake ie big ears, short
> legs and a long fat body. I'm guessing at least the bigger ears as
> that are obviously how you are able to make such observations.
> Obviously you can hear the difference between solid wood and cardbaord
> as you describe it.
>
> But then I just read one of your old posts your selection criteria for
> speaker is quote " With speakers, the bigger, the heaver, the better.
> Unless its a question ofspace, then go for some really nice
> bookshelves, 1k to 1.1/2k's should get you something really nice,
> Whatmouth, Tannoy, VAF, B &W."
>
> So lets see what we can find
> VAF we site, the signature series are made of "1st grade MDF" vary in
> thickness up to 52mm, the DC series from MDF and the icon from
> comoposite material.
>
> The whatmough web site quotes "The speaker cabinet should be rigid and
> inert. We use thick panels and extensive bracing on all our models."
> and then goes on to state that most of the speakers as being available
> in a range of real timber veneers. Can say with 100% certainty but I
> guess that rigid inert panel is MDF.
>
> I guess at least you were half right for Tannoy. Thier range of
> speakers includes real solid wood, ply and timber veneer finished
> speakers.
>
> If I'm delusional then I hate to think what you are.
>
>
> --
> mttel

bassett Wrote:
>> So what did they use before compressed cardboard , Stupid
>>
>> You really are deluding yourself, For a start your ears are not that
>> good .
>> Even if what you claim is correct, which it isn't.
>>
>> It,s a matter of cost in most cases [no pun intended] MDF is readily
>> available, Boards don't need joining, Complex woodworking skills are
>> not
>> required. Any wanker can fire a staple, into two bits of cardboard.
>> and
>> iron on a bit of veneer. Now you just pop down to the local Bunnings
>> store
>> and attempt to buy Cabinet Timbers, The best your going to get is
>> Pine.
>>
>> Now have a look at the new VAF speakers in Solid Timber, or are they
>> wrong
>> as well.
>> O I,ve just noticed , he uses a EYO e-mail address, That explains
>> everything.
>>
>> bassett
>> "mttel" <mttel.1n5ktn@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
>> >
>> > Thats interesting solid timer looks great but with all its in
>> hearent
>> > imperfections, lack of uniformity and denisty across the entire
>> section
>> > will invarably colour the sound. So not necessairly the holy grail
>> of
>> > speaker cabinet material
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > mttel

truce

my post, when I review it, was made when I was having a shit day at work. I interpreted your original post as suggesting that unless a cabinet was made from solid wood then it wasn't worth bothering with. I disagree with this premis.

As you have just pointed out above your issues is with the quality of the cabinet construction not necessarily the materials used. On this I whole heartedly agree.

I take your point that if a manufacturer is prepared to spend the time and effort utilising solid wood then there is a fair chance it will be a high quality unit.

My only defence is that when someone calls me stupid and suggest that they know me from a couple of writings, all rational thought goes out the window.

I apoligies for the derogatry comments I made about you as likewise I only have a limited knowledge on which to base them and that is not appropriate.

Yes I do know something about wood given my own experience, particularly with jarrah and having a brother who trained as a cabinet maker with a furniture maker who only produced one offs and limited productions.

Lastly I do not have ears that are that good, as I said earlier I was trying to make a point, somewhat clumsely I admit, that solid wood is not the ultimate material for speaker cabinets.

[Alan Rutlidge]

"bassett" <bassett@bassettskennel.com> wrote in message
news:425f1758@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> I am not always correct, I am quite often wrong, but I fail to see how
> your ears can be that good, that you can hear the difference between
> Cardboard and solid cabinets.
>
> My argument is not with cardboard, presa, but with quality in
construction,
> value for money, etc.
>
> Manufacturers build with the idea of minimum outlay for maximum profit.
> Frank Bose was and still is an expert in that respect. Manufacturers also
> have to consider the availability of materials and construction time.
which
> equals profit, If a manufacturer, only built one off's, construction costs
> would go through the roof.
> But if you can get a truck load of MDF, and cut out for multi
construction
> the costs come down considerably. It becomes an assembly line.
> Today we will cut out 2000 side panels, etc. Then they throw the
> components in a jig and go round with an air powered staple gun, and in
less
> then 5 minutes you have a speaker cabinet, A child of 5 could do it. My
> point is your not getting value for money, regardless of what the "Spin
> Doctors " tell you. Tower speaker cabinets cost the same regardless of
> whether there retail value is a couple of thousand or mega dollars. and
> production costs would be less then $50 each , for mass production units.
> During the last war production costs for a 22 litre Gerry Cans was 4 cents
> each.
> .
> But now try going out and obtaining a truck load of cabinet timber,
> Tallowwood, Sallywattle, Rosewood, Cedar, Cherrywood, These timbers are
all
> but gone, unless you live in an area where this timber is available, at a
> reasonable price.In the last set of speakers I built, I acquired 50 odd
> meters of Sallywattle boards 5 inches across and 5/8 if an inch thick, I
got
> them put through a thicknesser, and the edges machined for joining. When
> the panels where completed they where screwed from the inside out through
a
> hardwood chassis. There's 150 tech screws in each speaker cabinet, plus
all
> joints and where timbers cross are glued.
>
> They took me 2 months to complete, But time does not matter when your
> doing them for yourself, I would be lucky to make 4 sets a year,
>
> I liked your comments and I quote, That's interesting solid timer looks
> great but with all its in hearent imperfections, lack of uniformity and
> denisty across the entire section will invarably colour the sound.
Unquote.
>
> That is the greatest load of shit I have ever heard, You must have the
best
> set of ears in Australia. and I doubt you would understand any form of
> cabinet making, or the complex system of preparing timbers, or the years
of
> drying, and milling that goes into the finished product.
>
> Plus the fact, that your ears are not that wonderful, even if your
> ego is. Or do you think that, you just Toddle off one sunny day with a
> Chainsaw, and cut down a friendly tree, run it through a sawmill, and
> start production. Some of the people that I get my timbers from are 4th
and
> 5th generation sawers. And believe be , when I tell you that they don't
sell
> there timbers to just anyone, It took me 6 months of begging, and other
> friendly locals to obtain what I wanted. And it's not a question of
money.
>
> But I repeat my question, What did they use for Speaker Cabinets before
MDF
> came along.
> Also I was not talking about Tannoy, who make some of the most robust
> speaker cabinets, in there old range. But VAF, now market a speaker
cabanit
> made of REAL WOOD. In some strange way, they have overcome , your analogy
of
> "inhearent imperfections, lack of uniformity and denisty
>
> As for my long ears, I had headphone implants when I was a Pup.
>
> As for your Eyo, people that use that forum, all consider themselves above
> everyone else, and at the end of the day the forum is only a parasite of
> whatever news group, it obtains its posts from. If it was not for the
> newsgroups, it would not survive, in any of its forms, simply because
people
> would not bother with it. It and the people that frequent it are
> irrelevant.
> Unfortunately, all newsgroups that are linked to it, have ALL the
posts
> reproduced there, and the writers have no bloody say or choice.
> But the non-posters to EYO, when there words of wisdom are stolen, are
> labled as "Guests" Simply Wonderfull.
>
> bassett
>
>

Speaker manufacturers have been using chipboard and plywood for years
(since the late 60's ??) to make speaker cabinets. They were the only
sturdy composite wood material around before MDF came along that were
suitable and cheap enough to do the job. Both hi-fi and musical instrument
speaker manufacturers used it. The latter usually opting for an extenal
finish other than a veneered wood surface which is what most of the hi-fi
makers preferred. When I was a teenager my first few pairs of speakers used
these materials for the cabinets as they were relatively inexpensive
compared to solid wood panels. 3/4" plywood gave better results than
chipborad, as chipboard in the early 70's wasn't all that fantastic, but if
you were interested in keeping the weight down, then chipboard was the go.
But speaking purely from experience, good cabinet construction makes all the
difference to the end sound. This is especially noticable as you jack the
volume level up. I don't think there is any real advantage of solid wood
construction compared to modern composite materials such as MDF, however
good internal cabinet bracing using a glue and screw technique and the
application of sound absorbant materials goes a long way to improving the
sound at relatively low cost.

There were other reasons for using materials other than solid wood. The
relative cheapness of ply, chipboard and MDF makes changing cabinet designs
a lot less expensive especially for a DIY project / experiment. If a ply,
chipboard or MDF cabinet design design gives good results, then an external
application of real wood veneer would complete the boxes to an acceptably
good cosmetic appearance.

Cabinet resonances can be controlled and minimised by internal bracing.
Keeping the cabinet walls as thick as is economical and practical to
acheive, tends to yield a better vibration free cabinet. Glued and screwed
cleats make a big difference. Coating the interior walls of a speaker
enclosure with a thick layer of a bituminous substance also dampens panel
resonances. Unfortunately all these things cost money and it is very
unlikely you will find many of these measures used in anything but the top
end of the market.

Other than controlling cabinet resonances, air leaks from and standing waves
within the cabinet need to be controlled. Air leaks aound drive units can
easily be sealed using flexible gaskets and standing waves can be damped
within the cabinet using sound absorbant materials such as "Innerbond".

At the end if the day, the best drive units fitted to crap boxes are going
to sound bad. As appeared on the original album (LP) cover of Mike
Oldfield's Tubular Bells and then again on the inner booklet of the DVD-A
release of Tubular Bells 2003 - "This recording can still not be played on
old tin boxes no matter what they are fitted with. If you are in possession
of such equipment please hand it in to the nearest police station." The
quote says it all........:)

Cheers,
Alan






>
>
> "mttel" <mttel.1nbgeb@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
> > My my you really are a defensive person aren't you.
> >
> > So any comments made that don't 100% wholeheartly agree with your view
> > of the audio world are dismissed as being ignorant imbeciles and the
> > authors berated accordingly. I'm stupid for suggesting that solid wood
> > is not the holy grail of speaker cabinets and apparently you can
> > explain everthing about me by the fact that I use my EYO mail address.
> >
> > Well I guess I just have to resort to your level.
> >
> > All hail the mighty 'basset' protector of the truth and hound of all
> > knowledge. By the way do you after your name sake ie big ears, short
> > legs and a long fat body. I'm guessing at least the bigger ears as
> > that are obviously how you are able to make such observations.
> > Obviously you can hear the difference between solid wood and cardbaord
> > as you describe it.
> >
> > But then I just read one of your old posts your selection criteria for
> > speaker is quote " With speakers, the bigger, the heaver, the better.
> > Unless its a question ofspace, then go for some really nice
> > bookshelves, 1k to 1.1/2k's should get you something really nice,
> > Whatmouth, Tannoy, VAF, B &W."
> >
> > So lets see what we can find
> > VAF we site, the signature series are made of "1st grade MDF" vary in
> > thickness up to 52mm, the DC series from MDF and the icon from
> > comoposite material.
> >
> > The whatmough web site quotes "The speaker cabinet should be rigid and
> > inert. We use thick panels and extensive bracing on all our models."
> > and then goes on to state that most of the speakers as being available
> > in a range of real timber veneers. Can say with 100% certainty but I
> > guess that rigid inert panel is MDF.
> >
> > I guess at least you were half right for Tannoy. Thier range of
> > speakers includes real solid wood, ply and timber veneer finished
> > speakers.
> >
> > If I'm delusional then I hate to think what you are.
> >
> >
> > --
> > mttel
>
> bassett Wrote:
> >> So what did they use before compressed cardboard , Stupid
> >>
> >> You really are deluding yourself, For a start your ears are not that
> >> good .
> >> Even if what you claim is correct, which it isn't.
> >>
> >> It,s a matter of cost in most cases [no pun intended] MDF is readily
> >> available, Boards don't need joining, Complex woodworking skills are
> >> not
> >> required. Any wanker can fire a staple, into two bits of cardboard.
> >> and
> >> iron on a bit of veneer. Now you just pop down to the local Bunnings
> >> store
> >> and attempt to buy Cabinet Timbers, The best your going to get is
> >> Pine.
> >>
> >> Now have a look at the new VAF speakers in Solid Timber, or are they
> >> wrong
> >> as well.
> >> O I,ve just noticed , he uses a EYO e-mail address, That explains
> >> everything.
> >>
> >> bassett
> >> "mttel" <mttel.1n5ktn@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
> >> >
> >> > Thats interesting solid timer looks great but with all its in
> >> hearent
> >> > imperfections, lack of uniformity and denisty across the entire
> >> section
> >> > will invarably colour the sound. So not necessairly the holy grail
> >> of
> >> > speaker cabinet material
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > mttel
>
>
>

[bassett]

Thanks for that, As I say my reply was not a personal attack on you, but I
was trying to get the point across that, Speaker manufacturers, Charge
outrages prices for there products, and what you get is crap, with a High
End nameplate. and an equally high price.

I was in my local Hi-Fi shop the other day, and while waiting for my friend
to finish with a customer, I perused his line-up of Speakers, Hi-quality
finish, looked the part, not overly expensive, and a 1000 times better then
you would expect to find in places like Hardly Normal, and Expectovision
[I made that name up] But my problem was that there cases where so light,
it was not funny.. To the point of being flimsy.
But as I was reminded, Your stuffs so bloody heavy I would need to buy a
fork-lift truck to transport it.

I did not speak of the hardware, and while the cabinets are good, there not
a lot of good on there own. I use Peerless Speakers from WES Components
My last effort which is still here, and being used, Until someone wanders in
hears them and wants a set, to which I will sell them, reluctantly, But like
everything in my kennel, it's all got a price on it. I digress, or dream.

I used one HDS Peerless Tweeter [code 810653] which was one of there new
lines "Tweeter 1" /105mm XLS High Definition
Two midrange / woofers 6.1/2'' HDS [code no 850594 ] and one Woofer 8''
HDS [code no 850490] these where matched with a Peerless crossover unit.

I really like the Peerless range and there reasonably priced, and in my
view would hold there own with anything manufactured to-day.

My dream is to use some Scan-speak Super tweeters [2h-80khz ]
in a set of medium size speakers, but at $500.00 each, I will need to stand
at the corner with my bowl a while longer.
bassett

"mttel" <mttel.1nihn0@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
>
> my post, when I review it, was made when I was having a shit day at
> work. I interpreted your original post as suggesting that unless a
> cabinet was made from solid wood then it wasn't worth bothering with. I
> disagree with this premis.
>
> As you have just pointed out above your issues is with the quality of
> the cabinet construction not necessarily the materials used. On this I
> whole heartedly agree.
>
> I take your point that if a manufacturer is prepared to spend the time
> and effort utilising solid wood then there is a fair chance it will be
> a high quality unit.
>
> My only defence is that when someone calls me stupid and suggest that
> they know me from a couple of writings, all rational thought goes out
> the window.
>
> I apoligies for the derogatry comments I made about you as likewise I
> only have a limited knowledge on which to base them and that is not
> appropriate.
>
> Yes I do know something about wood given my own experience,
> particularly with jarrah and having a brother who trained as a cabinet
> maker with a furniture maker who only produced one offs and limited
> productions.
>
> Lastly I do not have ears that are that good, as I said earlier I was
> trying to make a point, somewhat clumsely I admit, that solid wood is
> not the ultimate material for speaker cabinets.
>
>
> --
> mttel

[bassett]

I agree with you Allan, when I was a young bloke , we use something called
"Blockboard" which was small sections of hardwood sandwiched between two
sheets of ply, and steam pressed, or whatever to compress everything solid,
They also used a great deal of Glue.
Then we got on to Concrete Shuttering, Board, which was used as a platform
for concrete floors, until it dried. This was heavy duty Plywood, about
3/4 of an inch think. and bloody heavy.

As I said in an earlier post I make a Chasses of 1 x 1 hardwood, with solid
ends and some centre spacers, and the boards are glued and screwed, from the
inside into the boards, The only screws showing are the front panel, where
the speakers fix. and a Tec screw head every 4'' does not look out of
place, as they match the screws holding the speakers. and the port, should
there be one.

I agree with your comments about insolation, I glue 2'' thick insolation
bats [Bradford bats] inside my cabinets, and as all my stuff is "ported" it
does the job.

One thing I was discussing the other day, with the chap that machines the
joints for me [He has a spindle moulder] I was considering making my next
set of cabinets with "rounded" sides, as these are supposed to give better
air circulation. My friend has gone into a flap about perfecting a joint
that will be Off-set to form a curve in the join. But like me, he only
does this type of thing as an interest, and does not depend on it for a
living.
But to get back on subject, If the sides have a curve, how will this have
an effect on Air flow, if the inside is also insulated, will the insolation
, nullify
the curve.

I agree with you about your choice of music, for testing, I always use
Piano Music, as this also gives good High's and low's

bassett

Alan Rutlidge iinet.net.au>" <rutlidge@<NO_SPAM> wrote in message

"Speaker manufacturers have been using chipboard and plywood for years
(since the late 60's ??) to make speaker cabinets. They were the only
sturdy composite wood material around before MDF came along that were
suitable and cheap enough to do the job. Both hi-fi and musical instrument
speaker manufacturers used it. The latter usually opting for an extenal
finish other than a veneered wood surface which is what most of the hi-fi
makers preferred. When I was a teenager my first few pairs of speakers used
these materials for the cabinets as they were relatively inexpensive
compared to solid wood panels. 3/4" plywood gave better results than
chipborad, as chipboard in the early 70's wasn't all that fantastic, but if
you were interested in keeping the weight down, then chipboard was the go.
But speaking purely from experience, good cabinet construction makes all the
difference to the end sound. This is especially noticable as you jack the
volume level up. I don't think there is any real advantage of solid wood
construction compared to modern composite materials such as MDF, however
good internal cabinet bracing using a glue and screw technique and the
application of sound absorbant materials goes a long way to improving the
sound at relatively low cost.

There were other reasons for using materials other than solid wood. The
relative cheapness of ply, chipboard and MDF makes changing cabinet designs
a lot less expensive especially for a DIY project / experiment. If a ply,
chipboard or MDF cabinet design design gives good results, then an external
application of real wood veneer would complete the boxes to an acceptably
good cosmetic appearance.

Cabinet resonances can be controlled and minimised by internal bracing.
Keeping the cabinet walls as thick as is economical and practical to
acheive, tends to yield a better vibration free cabinet. Glued and screwed
cleats make a big difference. Coating the interior walls of a speaker
enclosure with a thick layer of a bituminous substance also dampens panel
resonances. Unfortunately all these things cost money and it is very
unlikely you will find many of these measures used in anything but the top
end of the market.

Other than controlling cabinet resonances, air leaks from and standing waves
within the cabinet need to be controlled. Air leaks aound drive units can
easily be sealed using flexible gaskets and standing waves can be damped
within the cabinet using sound absorbant materials such as "Innerbond".

At the end if the day, the best drive units fitted to crap boxes are going
to sound bad. As appeared on the original album (LP) cover of Mike
Oldfield's Tubular Bells and then again on the inner booklet of the DVD-A
release of Tubular Bells 2003 - "This recording can still not be played on
old tin boxes no matter what they are fitted with. If you are in possession
of such equipment please hand it in to the nearest police station." The
quote says it all........:)

Cheers,
Alan