ABC2 guide in SMH's "the Guide" today..

[blob]

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:41:12 +1000, "Kevin Hendrikssen"
<spam@spam.com> wrote:

><michaelidato@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1113819648.508666.129300@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
>>> ABC only provides Now and Next on digital FTA, Michael
>>
>> Fair enuff. I take it back then. My set-top box gathers dust as I
>> mainly watch telly on the Foxtel-equipped telly, so I see the Foxtel
>> listing. (Which is actually pretty good.)
>>
>> The issue here is obviously one of space, and it's not going to get any
>> roomier. As the legislative regime relaxes in coming years and more FTA
>> digital services roll out, there will be more channels clamoring to get
>> into the same (or less) space.
>
>Well, as I say, you could always turn the page sideways. I bet most people
>fold their Guide/Green Guides back like that anyway, so does it matter if
>it's landscape?

It does for those whose television room decoration is based around the
use of "The Guide" as a centrepiece. I for one refuse to buy a new
frame.

[dude]

I don't think either of them (ABC2 nor PayTV) belong in The Guide for the
reasons Michael Idato outlined. Although I can (only just) tolerate them being
there taking valuable papyrus real-estate, if they must!

Really, The Guide should simply publish a couple of webside addresses, and bung
it all online... and save paper for more quality FTA (and radio) coverage.

What about it, Michael? Can you make it happen? :-)

Seriously, the Foxtels of the world publish great big bloody glossy magazines of
TV Guides, something more to kid people into thinking they're getting value for
their ill-spent PayTV moolah!!!

Nighty night!

[dude]

: For the record, I draw an imaginary line between the TV set and its
: peripherals. Until integrated digital TV sets become commonplace.

I like your point, Michael, even if you deem that you lost the argument, and I
also enjoyed your correct use of "its" (such a rarity these days)!!

Nighty night!

[dude]

: British newspapers (a spooky window in the future, I fear)
: they often have two tabloid pages of listings, with almost
: no information.

Depressing...

OTOH, links and fleshing out the detailed info online might be the way!!!!!! (If
only I could patent that idea...)

Us nerds need to know what episodes of things are screening! But seriously, I
wish The Guide would be more detailed about shows such as Australian Story,
which usually just has a generic sentence "Ordinary Australians tell their
extraordinary stories" (paraphrased at this late hour). BUT that same few words
could be used to tell me something about the actual episode in question and that
(with the promos, if I happen to catch any) could help me to decide if I will
tape the episode or not (when I'm at work during prime-time, as I often am). I
understand that at the time of printing, The SMH might not always have the info
about the Aust Story episode - but if they do...

I reiterate that I think PayTV has no (or minimal) place in The Guide... folk
already have their Foxtel Guides.

[Rod Speed]

<michaelidato@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113818414.655137.134810@l41g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...

> Er ... a couple of points on that.

> 1. ABC2 isn't quite free to air. Unless, of course, someone
> is handing out those digital set-top boxes at no charge.

Thats a silly line, you need to have a TV to watch the
standard ABC channel too and thats clearly free to air.

> When I got mine, the gentleman in the store seemed
> very keen on getting some money off me in exchange.

Just as true when you buy a TV from a store too.

> 2. ABC2, like digital pay TV, can only be seen
> through the appropriate set-top box. In all cases,
> those set-top boxes carry electronic program guides.

Not a full week in advance tho.

> They are, therefore, a slightly lower priority in terms
> of program listings than analog FTA TV services.

Completely silly with a full week of program info.

[Rod Speed]

<michaelidato@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113819648.508666.129300@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
>> ABC only provides Now and Next on digital FTA, Michael
>
> Fair enuff. I take it back then. My set-top box gathers dust as I
> mainly watch telly on the Foxtel-equipped telly, so I see the Foxtel
> listing. (Which is actually pretty good.)
>
> The issue here is obviously one of space, and it's not going to get any
> roomier. As the legislative regime relaxes in coming years and more FTA
> digital services roll out, there will be more channels clamoring to get
> into the same (or less) space.

And anyone with a clue doesnt use the dinosaur print media for a program guide.

[mattabat@gmail.com]

blob wrote:
> On 18 Apr 2005 01:50:21 -0700, mattabat@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> >Soixante Un Vieille Viande De Jour
>
>°º·._._.·º°`°º·._._.·º°`°º·._._.·º°`°º·._._.·º°`°º ·._._.·º°`°º·
> >wrote:
> >> mattabat@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Yes, the SMH has published the TV guide for ABC2 in todays "the
> >> > Guide"..
> >> > It however is in small enough type to warrant the use of a
> >magnifying
> >> > glass (to prevent headaches and for those with poor vision).
It's
> >> > bundled with the pay TV guide information. Of course, no
> >descriptions
> >> > of what's on or anything.. the title of the show says it all
> >> > apparently.
> >> > Not exactly first class treatment for a free-to-air TV station,
but
> >> > it's there!
> >>
> >> You whinging arsehole. Last week you whinged and complained it
> >wasn't
> >> there, so we put it in for you. Now you're still complaining. So
> >we'll
> >> take it out from next week.
> >
> >Now now children, I wasn't complaining about it being there!
> >Sticks and stones may break my bones but insults will only
strengthen
> >them..
>
> Soixante Un Vieille Viande De Jour, now with extra calcium.

Yes, like milk only more calcium enriched!
Soixante Un Vieille Viande De Jour, now more of that full-cream milky
goodness? :)

--
mattabat

[mattabat@gmail.com]

Rod Speed offensively spoke thus:

> And anyone with a clue doesnt use the dinosaur print media for a
program guide.

Anyone with a clue doesn't hurl insults at people who like TV guides
for planning ahead their week with regards to what's on TV (a fair
proportion of the population mind you) and prefer to do this with a
printed TV guide.
Note my use of the apostrophe symbol Rod... Grammar can be your friend
too!

--
mattabat

[Highlandish]

Quoth The Raven "blob"<blob> in
rdh761dscao48pv8ejtt1hd77f0s0p0lbb@4ax.com
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:41:12 +1000, "Kevin Hendrikssen"
> <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>><michaelidato@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:1113819648.508666.129300@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
>>>> ABC only provides Now and Next on digital FTA, Michael
>>>
>>> Fair enuff. I take it back then. My set-top box gathers dust as I
>>> mainly watch telly on the Foxtel-equipped telly, so I see the Foxtel
>>> listing. (Which is actually pretty good.)
>>>
>>> The issue here is obviously one of space, and it's not going to get
>>> any roomier. As the legislative regime relaxes in coming years and
>>> more FTA digital services roll out, there will be more channels
>>> clamoring to get into the same (or less) space.
>>
>>Well, as I say, you could always turn the page sideways. I bet most
>>people fold their Guide/Green Guides back like that anyway, so does
>>it matter if it's landscape?
>
> It does for those whose television room decoration is based around the
> use of "The Guide" as a centrepiece. I for one refuse to buy a new
> frame.

snort, now there's an aus.tv enthusiast....

--
Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me

[Highlandish]

Quoth The Raven "dude"<x@x.com> in 4263d841@news.alphalink.com.au
>I don't think either of them (ABC2 nor PayTV) belong in The Guide for
> the reasons Michael Idato outlined. Although I can (only just)
> tolerate them being there taking valuable papyrus real-estate, if
> they must!
>
> Really, The Guide should simply publish a couple of webside
> addresses, and bung it all online... and save paper for more quality
> FTA (and radio) coverage.
>
> What about it, Michael? Can you make it happen? :-)
>
> Seriously, the Foxtels of the world publish great big bloody glossy
> magazines of TV Guides, something more to kid people into thinking
> they're getting value for their ill-spent PayTV moolah!!!
>
> Nighty night!

boo, keep it paper, just recycled paper will be fine

--
Why do they call it a TV set when you only get one?

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me

[Rod Speed]

<mattabat@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113880811.525240.81220@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com...
> Rod Speed offensively spoke thus:

>> And anyone with a clue doesnt use the
>> dinosaur print media for a program guide.

> Anyone with a clue doesn't hurl insults at people who like TV guides
> for planning ahead their week with regards to what's on TV

Anyone with a clue can do that online where it doesnt have the
silly limitations that are inevitable with the dinosaur print media.

> (a fair proportion of the population mind you)

Just the dinosaurs.

> and prefer to do this with a printed TV guide.

More fool them.

> Note my use of the apostrophe symbol Rod...

No thanks, gutless.

> Grammar can be your friend too!

Taint grammar, fool.

[Firefly]

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3cl2tgF6hjid8U1@individual.net...
>
> <mattabat@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1113880811.525240.81220@o13g2000cwo.googlegro ups.com...
>> Rod Speed offensively spoke thus:
>
>>> And anyone with a clue doesnt use the
>>> dinosaur print media for a program guide.
>
>> Anyone with a clue doesn't hurl insults at people who like TV guides
>> for planning ahead their week with regards to what's on TV
>
> Anyone with a clue can do that online where it doesnt have the
> silly limitations that are inevitable with the dinosaur print media.

Like having to use whiteout on your screen because pens don't work on CRTs
and highlighters just make a mess when marking the online guide?
Like having to lug the PC over to the coffee table, plug in all the cables
and then pass the keyboard, mouse, monitor and associated cables around when
somebody wants to check the guide only to have to put it back on the
computer desk when you've finished watching?

>> (a fair proportion of the population mind you)
>
> Just the dinosaurs.

MOST people find it a lot easier to mark the programs that they want to
watch in a paper guide. pens . The printed guides are a lot more convient to
pass around the lounge room than a PC too and, most people get a free
printed guide in some form or another each week. Most people don't have
broadband so perusing on-line guides is time consuming and ties up the
phone. The limitations of the on-line guides is, ATM, far greater than with
the printed guide.

>> and prefer to do this with a printed TV guide.
>
> More fool them.

Why? Because they choose a guide that is far more convenient?

[Kath]

michaelidato@hotmail.com wrote:
> Highlandish ... FYI, we devote two pages to each day's TV at the
> moment, split between a page of previews (with digital & pay TV down
> the bottom), and a page of FTA network listings, with a strip ad.
>
> Gazing into the crystal ball, the future is probably a slimmer preview
> section, a bigger digital & pay TV listing and (hopefully) the same
> amount of space devoted to the FTA network listings.
>
> At the core of the problem is advertising revenue vs editorial space.
> Obviously, any newspaper desires to be a profitable business but the
> hard fast fact is that almost every TV guide insert in a newspaper
> runs at a loss.
>
> There is some advertising revenue, sure, but more often than not,
> there is no enough revenue to balance the seven pages (or in The
> Guide's case, fourteen) given over to listings. The networks do not
> pay to be listed, we list them as a public service, thus, the space
> is revenue neutral. (Lord ... I sound like an accountant.)

But... how many more copies of the paper do you sell on the day the Guide is
published?



--
Katharine
'Bono, If you still havn't found what your looking for, check behind the
drum kit' - Larry Mullen

[Highlandish]

Quoth The Raven "michaelidato@hotmail.com"<michaelidato@hotmail.com> in
1113832662.002111.129920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups. com
> Highlandish ... FYI, we devote two pages to each day's TV at the
> moment, split between a page of previews (with digital & pay TV down
> the bottom), and a page of FTA network listings, with a strip ad.
>
> Gazing into the crystal ball, the future is probably a slimmer preview
> section, a bigger digital & pay TV listing and (hopefully) the same
> amount of space devoted to the FTA network listings.
>
> At the core of the problem is advertising revenue vs editorial space.
> Obviously, any newspaper desires to be a profitable business but the
> hard fast fact is that almost every TV guide insert in a newspaper
> runs at a loss.
>
> There is some advertising revenue, sure, but more often than not,
> there is no enough revenue to balance the seven pages (or in The
> Guide's case, fourteen) given over to listings. The networks do not
> pay to be listed, we list them as a public service, thus, the space
> is revenue neutral. (Lord ... I sound like an accountant.)
>
> The upshot is that more pages is simply impossible. So the balance
> must be more information in the same space. For that reason, digital
> and pay TV, with relatively low penetration, get slimmed down
> listings, while we devote the biggest space to FTA network
> programming.
>
> If you get a chance to look at a British newspaper (a spooky window in
> the future, I fear) they often have two tabloid pages of listings,
> with almost no information. Just the FTA networks in about half the
> space The Guide gives them, and about 30 or 40 digital and pay
> channels with the same "time and title only" listing as The Guide.
>
> Michael

I currently enjoy the SMH guide because of the synopses printed, if they
were to go, I'd be left with the EPG on yourtv or the digital guides.

I love my guide on Monday mornings, I like to circle all the shows on the
day so I don't have to browse for something to watch daily, I like that it
has both days of the weekend listed, I like reading the editorials, I like
the way I can find a radio program and when a certain dj is on.

all I say is get rid of the g-code (useless as programs never start/finish
on time) and replace them with actual episode titles and numbers, rather
than just (R) to note that its a repeat when we can be the judge if we've
seen it before.

a synopses should be included for most titles like;

1600: Mr ED - A Day At The Races (S01:12 BW PG R)
Mr. Ed goes to the race course, but Wilbur bets the wrong way
1630:

BTW what is your involvement with The Guide besides the Page 8 New Releases
for DVD and Videos?

--
"We come to love not by finding a perfect person, but by learning to
see an imperfect person perfectly."

Take out the _CURSEING to reply to me

[Kath]

Highlandish wrote:

> I currently enjoy the SMH guide because of the synopses printed, if
> they were to go, I'd be left with the EPG on yourtv or the digital
> guides.
> I love my guide on Monday mornings, I like to circle all the shows on
> the day so I don't have to browse for something to watch daily, I
> like that it has both days of the weekend listed, I like reading the
> editorials, I like the way I can find a radio program and when a
> certain dj is on.

Ditto for the Green Guide in Melbourne's Age. I also use yourtv.com to check
each day for program alterations, and anything I might have missed in the
Green Guide (thanks to the use of keywords).

>
> all I say is get rid of the g-code (useless as programs never
> start/finish on time)

They're still useful - you put them in, and just add time to the end of the
program. Saves having to set the channel and the start and end time, so
there's less steps, and you're less likely to stuff it up (eg the wrong
channel)


and replace them with actual episode titles and
> numbers, rather than just (R) to note that its a repeat when we can
> be the judge if we've seen it before.

R is fine, but I agree it'd be nice to see episode titles. Probably not
logistically possibly though, particularly if it reduces the program
description.

I agree with what someone said earlier about how generic descriptions of
shows are useless (eg Australian Story), particularly when we want to know
who's on them!


--
Katharine
Smoking cures weight problems... eventually. - Steve Wright

[dude]

: Highlandish wrote:
:
: > I love my guide on Monday mornings, I like to circle all the shows on
: > the day so I don't have to browse for something to watch daily, I
: > like that it has both days of the weekend listed, I like reading the
: > editorials, I like the way I can find a radio program and when a
: > certain dj is on.

Me too (or three). Planning makes sure I don't miss the unmissable. I like the
editorials and reviews, even the product reviews. Like the Radio Guide (but I'm
not the DJ type). Monday is the only day I'm guaranteed to buy the paper.

Kath wrote:

: I also use yourtv.com to check
: each day for program alterations, and anything I might have missed in the
: Green Guide (thanks to the use of keywords).

Hmmm might have to look into that some time

: [G-codes]
: They're still useful - you put them in, and just add time to the end of the
: program. Saves having to set the channel and the start and end time, so
: there's less steps, and you're less likely to stuff it up (eg the wrong
: channel)

Precisely! - I use the code, add time to end (AND start, often), it still a
takes less than half the time that doing it all from scratch does...

: I agree with what someone said earlier about how generic descriptions of
: shows are useless (eg Australian Story), particularly when we want to know
: who's on them!

Heh, that was me... then when I looked at this week's Guide, it DID have a
non-generic (specific) blurb. D'oh! Still, my point was more of the specific, if
there are the column inches!! A generic blurb is a waste of (precious) space.

[Kath]

dude wrote:

>> I agree with what someone said earlier about how generic
>> descriptions of shows are useless (eg Australian Story),
>> particularly when we want to know who's on them!
>
> Heh, that was me... then when I looked at this week's Guide, it DID
> have a non-generic (specific) blurb. D'oh! Still, my point was more
> of the specific, if there are the column inches!! A generic blurb is
> a waste of (precious) space.

In their defence, the people who lay out the guides often don't have
anything mroe than a generic description to go buy, but perhaps when they do
have more information, they just leave in the same blurb as from the
previous week.


--
Katharine
Home is where the computer is plugged in.

[Rod Speed]

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:42663048_1@x-privat.org...
> Quoth The Raven "michaelidato@hotmail.com"<michaelidato@hotmail.com> in
> 1113832662.002111.129920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups. com
>> Highlandish ... FYI, we devote two pages to each day's TV at the
>> moment, split between a page of previews (with digital & pay TV down
>> the bottom), and a page of FTA network listings, with a strip ad.
>>
>> Gazing into the crystal ball, the future is probably a slimmer preview
>> section, a bigger digital & pay TV listing and (hopefully) the same
>> amount of space devoted to the FTA network listings.
>>
>> At the core of the problem is advertising revenue vs editorial space.
>> Obviously, any newspaper desires to be a profitable business but the
>> hard fast fact is that almost every TV guide insert in a newspaper
>> runs at a loss.
>>
>> There is some advertising revenue, sure, but more often than not,
>> there is no enough revenue to balance the seven pages (or in The
>> Guide's case, fourteen) given over to listings. The networks do not
>> pay to be listed, we list them as a public service, thus, the space
>> is revenue neutral. (Lord ... I sound like an accountant.)
>>
>> The upshot is that more pages is simply impossible. So the balance
>> must be more information in the same space. For that reason, digital
>> and pay TV, with relatively low penetration, get slimmed down
>> listings, while we devote the biggest space to FTA network
>> programming.
>>
>> If you get a chance to look at a British newspaper (a spooky window in
>> the future, I fear) they often have two tabloid pages of listings,
>> with almost no information. Just the FTA networks in about half the
>> space The Guide gives them, and about 30 or 40 digital and pay
>> channels with the same "time and title only" listing as The Guide.
>>
>> Michael
>
> I currently enjoy the SMH guide because of the synopses printed, if they
> were to go, I'd be left with the EPG on yourtv or the digital guides.
>
> I love my guide on Monday mornings, I like to circle all the shows on the
> day so I don't have to browse for something to watch daily, I like that it
> has both days of the weekend listed, I like reading the editorials, I like
> the way I can find a radio program and when a certain dj is on.
>
> all I say is get rid of the g-code (useless as programs never start/finish
> on time)

Irrelevant, any decent Gcode system allows you to pad the finish
time with extra time and most allow the start time to be changed
too. Its quicker to punch in the gcode than to program the other way.

> and replace them with actual episode titles and numbers, rather than just (R)
> to note that its a repeat when we can be the judge if we've seen it before.

> a synopses should be included for most titles like;

> 1600: Mr ED - A Day At The Races (S01:12 BW PG R)
> Mr. Ed goes to the race course, but Wilbur bets the wrong way
> 1630:

> BTW what is your involvement with The Guide besides the Page 8 New Releases
> for DVD and Videos?

[Rod Speed]

"Kath" <kathnews2@optusnet.ieatspam.com.au.dud> wrote in message
news:42664c8a$1$4657$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
> Highlandish wrote:
>
>> I currently enjoy the SMH guide because of the synopses printed, if
>> they were to go, I'd be left with the EPG on yourtv or the digital
>> guides.
>> I love my guide on Monday mornings, I like to circle all the shows on
>> the day so I don't have to browse for something to watch daily, I
>> like that it has both days of the weekend listed, I like reading the
>> editorials, I like the way I can find a radio program and when a
>> certain dj is on.
>
> Ditto for the Green Guide in Melbourne's Age. I also use yourtv.com to check
> each day for program alterations, and anything I might have missed in the
> Green Guide (thanks to the use of keywords).
>
>>
>> all I say is get rid of the g-code (useless as programs never
>> start/finish on time)
>
> They're still useful - you put them in, and just add time to the end of the
> program. Saves having to set the channel and the start and end time, so
> there's less steps, and you're less likely to stuff it up (eg the wrong
> channel)
>
>
> and replace them with actual episode titles and
>> numbers, rather than just (R) to note that its a repeat when we can
>> be the judge if we've seen it before.
>
> R is fine, but I agree it'd be nice to see episode titles. Probably not
> logistically possibly though, particularly if it reduces the program
> description.
>
> I agree with what someone said earlier about how generic descriptions of shows
> are useless (eg Australian Story), particularly when we want to know who's on
> them!

Thats likely because the ABC doesnt provide that info early enough tho.