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Toby Ponsenby
07-06-2005, 04:43 PM
Am car question:-)
Just how does one test a viscostatic fan?
The usual test is to turn the fan blade (engine off of course) and
ensure there's some resistance.
Yup. done that.
So i take the fan off, and disassemble the blades from the hub, and it
appears that as expected rapid turning of the blade attachment spider
nets much less resistance after a few seconds.
Again, as expected - this is the bit where the fan sorts itself out
after engine start.

Next, I get the hot air gun (yeah, I know what you lot are thinking)
and heat the bi-metallic spring.
This is the bit where I get confused - there should be more resistance
to turning the fan spider with the spring rotating a little to engage
the clutch system inside the hub (or shifting the port access
positions to be more precise.)
But not so.

And I reckon I have a fault there.

Now, I've played with these devices before, but I can't remember just
how much rotation to the 'switch' lever gets when the spring is warmed
up.
At the moment I'm getting about 15 to 20 Degrees of rotation out of
the spring with a fair heat loading - probably a lot more than the
radiator provides.

Is this enough?
ie, is the spring rooted?
Or is that about right and the fluid in the hub is tired and
emotional and needs replacement?
BTW, there's absolutely no sign of fan fluid anywhere outside the hub,
no leaks, and no tracking marks where it may have leaked and been
flung off the fan in the past.

Methinks I have a faulty spring at this stage, but it's physically
fine - and what the hell can go wrong with a bi-metal spring anyway
other than simple breakage?

Any ideas out there?

Notes:
The whole fan assy is just under 300 bucks. Bastards.
So, I have some silicone fluid that I'll put in the hub if the spring
travel issue can be clarified.
The idiots in Korea have managed to use countersunk philips head
screws to hold the hub together and they're tight as the fishes
proverbial, and I don't want to take them out anyway since the problem
might be the spring and it's travel, replacing the fluid would be a
waste of time and money:-(


--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

Dan---
07-06-2005, 04:53 PM
"Toby Ponsenby" <toby@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:116gowjttsk7v.1j1edw3shlj64$.dlg@40tude.net.. .

> Notes:
> The whole fan assy is just under 300 bucks. Bastards.
> So, I have some silicone fluid that I'll put in the hub if the spring
> travel issue can be clarified.

Time to ditch the fan clutch for a decent electric thermo fan?


--
Regards
Dan

atec
07-06-2005, 05:15 PM
Toby Ponsenby wrote:
> Am car question:-)
throw that bit of crap away and head to the wreckers , check to see if a
falcon shroud / fan assy will fit , shouldn't be more than $50.00 or buy
new ones in pairs for less than the replacement cost you mentioned .
(George DOnigers and Bursons stock them amongst others)

Toby Ponsenby
07-06-2005, 05:43 PM
On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:42:56 +1000, Dan--- wrote:

> "Toby Ponsenby" <toby@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:116gowjttsk7v.1j1edw3shlj64$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
>
>> Notes:
>> The whole fan assy is just under 300 bucks. Bastards.
>> So, I have some silicone fluid that I'll put in the hub if the spring
>> travel issue can be clarified.
>
> Time to ditch the fan clutch for a decent electric thermo fan?

Is DIEsel, so I don't want to put electrical stuff on it:-)
But I reckon I can see the benefit of turfing the bastard thing that's
there.
A pair of calsonics from a Pulsar should do the jobbie too, but the
'fabricate a bracket' idea gives me the screaming shits.

--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

John_H
07-06-2005, 05:54 PM
Toby Ponsenby wrote:
>
>The idiots in Korea have managed to use countersunk philips head
>screws to hold the hub together and they're tight as the fishes
>proverbial, and I don't want to take them out anyway since the problem
>might be the spring and it's travel, replacing the fluid would be a
>waste of time and money:-(

If you haven't got one of those Vessel impact drivers you hit with a
hammer, find a pin punch the same size as the screw heads and give
them one hard crack on the face to loosen. They're also more likely
to be Posidrive than Philips -- using the correct screw bit helps.

If it's other than loss of fluid, the easy fix is to lock it up.
It'll take years for a fixed fan to burn the extra fuel a new
viscostatic costs. :)

--
John H

Dan---
07-06-2005, 05:54 PM
"Toby Ponsenby" <toby@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:gh108np8xpz9$.trenyhxnu303.dlg@40tude.net...

>
> Is DIEsel, so I don't want to put electrical stuff on it:-)
> But I reckon I can see the benefit of turfing the bastard thing that's
> there.
> A pair of calsonics from a Pulsar should do the jobbie too, but the
> 'fabricate a bracket' idea gives me the screaming shits.

Either that or find a suitable Deutz air cooled diesel engine. ;-)

--
Regards
Dan

Rainbow Warrior
07-06-2005, 06:33 PM
"John_H" <john4271@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eofaa11nv4r5gc8aqvvvks962ns7jnbj1t@4ax.com...
> Toby Ponsenby wrote:
> >
> >The idiots in Korea have managed to use countersunk philips head
> >screws to hold the hub together and they're tight as the fishes
> >proverbial, and I don't want to take them out anyway since the problem
> >might be the spring and it's travel, replacing the fluid would be a
> >waste of time and money:-(
>
> If you haven't got one of those Vessel impact drivers you hit with a
> hammer, find a pin punch the same size as the screw heads and give
> them one hard crack on the face to loosen. They're also more likely
> to be Posidrive than Philips -- using the correct screw bit helps.
>
> If it's other than loss of fluid, the easy fix is to lock it up.
> It'll take years for a fixed fan to burn the extra fuel a new
> viscostatic costs. :)
>
> John H

I had a siezed up one on my rangie, new blades, apparently it didn't handle
the revs as well and exploded at 6500rpm racing a turbo Landcruiser.

Twin thermo's followed.

Rainbow Warrior
07-06-2005, 06:33 PM
"Toby Ponsenby" <toby@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:116gowjttsk7v.1j1edw3shlj64$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> Am car question:-)
> Just how does one test a viscostatic fan?
> The usual test is to turn the fan blade (engine off of course) and
> ensure there's some resistance.
> Yup. done that.
> So i take the fan off, and disassemble the blades from the hub, and it
> appears that as expected rapid turning of the blade attachment spider
> nets much less resistance after a few seconds.
> Again, as expected - this is the bit where the fan sorts itself out
> after engine start.
>
> Next, I get the hot air gun (yeah, I know what you lot are thinking)
> and heat the bi-metallic spring.
> This is the bit where I get confused - there should be more resistance
> to turning the fan spider with the spring rotating a little to engage
> the clutch system inside the hub (or shifting the port access
> positions to be more precise.)
> But not so.
>
> And I reckon I have a fault there.
>
> Now, I've played with these devices before, but I can't remember just
> how much rotation to the 'switch' lever gets when the spring is warmed
> up.
> At the moment I'm getting about 15 to 20 Degrees of rotation out of
> the spring with a fair heat loading - probably a lot more than the
> radiator provides.
>
> Is this enough?
> ie, is the spring rooted?
> Or is that about right and the fluid in the hub is tired and
> emotional and needs replacement?
> BTW, there's absolutely no sign of fan fluid anywhere outside the hub,
> no leaks, and no tracking marks where it may have leaked and been
> flung off the fan in the past.
>
> Methinks I have a faulty spring at this stage, but it's physically
> fine - and what the hell can go wrong with a bi-metal spring anyway
> other than simple breakage?
>
> Any ideas out there?
>
> Notes:
> The whole fan assy is just under 300 bucks. Bastards.
> So, I have some silicone fluid that I'll put in the hub if the spring
> travel issue can be clarified.
> The idiots in Korea have managed to use countersunk philips head
> screws to hold the hub together and they're tight as the fishes
> proverbial, and I don't want to take them out anyway since the problem
> might be the spring and it's travel, replacing the fluid would be a
> waste of time and money:-(
>
> Toby.

I'm not sure about yours, but I always assumed the fluid inside was the
critical component, the springs are sometimes just a surge repressor.

Toby Ponsenby
07-06-2005, 06:43 PM
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 16:43:56 +1000, John_H wrote:

> Toby Ponsenby wrote:
>>
>>The idiots in Korea have managed to use countersunk philips head
>>screws to hold the hub together and they're tight as the fishes
>>proverbial, and I don't want to take them out anyway since the problem
>>might be the spring and it's travel, replacing the fluid would be a
>>waste of time and money:-(
>
> If you haven't got one of those Vessel impact drivers you hit with a
> hammer, find a pin punch the same size as the screw heads and give
> them one hard crack on the face to loosen. They're also more likely
> to be Posidrive than Philips -- using the correct screw bit helps.
Philips was used in explanation - as you figure the monster contact
area is the problem, and the pin punch is out there waiting....and so
is the impact driver.

Bugger it, I'll go rip the thing apart.
Just for the hell of it:-)
It'll be fun, because it appears to have been built upside down just
to increase the joys of working on it.

>
> If it's other than loss of fluid, the easy fix is to lock it up.
> It'll take years for a fixed fan to burn the extra fuel a new
> viscostatic costs. :)

Top idea. Trouble is noise, it's a farkin cab-over, and already bad
news in the noise stakes.

I just made it a 'worlds only', too - had this cool red VHT paint for
years and it's now on the dezust mainfold. Cool:-)
--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

Toby Ponsenby
07-06-2005, 06:43 PM
On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:34:05 +1000, Rainbow Warrior wrote:

> "Toby Ponsenby" <toby@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:116gowjttsk7v.1j1edw3shlj64$.dlg@40tude.net.. .
>> Am car question:-)
>> Just how does one test a viscostatic fan?
>> The usual test is to turn the fan blade (engine off of course) and
>> ensure there's some resistance.
>> Yup. done that.
>> So i take the fan off, and disassemble the blades from the hub, and it
>> appears that as expected rapid turning of the blade attachment spider
>> nets much less resistance after a few seconds.
>> Again, as expected - this is the bit where the fan sorts itself out
>> after engine start.
>>
>> Next, I get the hot air gun (yeah, I know what you lot are thinking)
>> and heat the bi-metallic spring.
>> This is the bit where I get confused - there should be more resistance
>> to turning the fan spider with the spring rotating a little to engage
>> the clutch system inside the hub (or shifting the port access
>> positions to be more precise.)
>> But not so.
>>
>> And I reckon I have a fault there.
>>
>> Now, I've played with these devices before, but I can't remember just
>> how much rotation to the 'switch' lever gets when the spring is warmed
>> up.
>> At the moment I'm getting about 15 to 20 Degrees of rotation out of
>> the spring with a fair heat loading - probably a lot more than the
>> radiator provides.
>>
>> Is this enough?
>> ie, is the spring rooted?
>> Or is that about right and the fluid in the hub is tired and
>> emotional and needs replacement?
>> BTW, there's absolutely no sign of fan fluid anywhere outside the hub,
>> no leaks, and no tracking marks where it may have leaked and been
>> flung off the fan in the past.
>>
>> Methinks I have a faulty spring at this stage, but it's physically
>> fine - and what the hell can go wrong with a bi-metal spring anyway
>> other than simple breakage?
>>
>> Any ideas out there?
>>
>> Notes:
>> The whole fan assy is just under 300 bucks. Bastards.
>> So, I have some silicone fluid that I'll put in the hub if the spring
>> travel issue can be clarified.
>> The idiots in Korea have managed to use countersunk philips head
>> screws to hold the hub together and they're tight as the fishes
>> proverbial, and I don't want to take them out anyway since the problem
>> might be the spring and it's travel, replacing the fluid would be a
>> waste of time and money:-(
>>
>> Toby.
>
> I'm not sure about yours, but I always assumed the fluid inside was the
> critical component, the springs are sometimes just a surge repressor.

Starting to think this one that way inclined.

Anyhow, I ripped it apart, and put two tubes of (hehe Toyota) goop in
the hub.
Probably not enough, but I'll find out when I put the thing back
together AFTER I get some of those 'fast moving' parts from point(s)
south. Like Radiator hoses that change diameter in the process of
getting from A to B, FFS.

Time will tell.

--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

rmcgrice
07-06-2005, 08:03 PM
Toby Ponsenby <toby@privacy.net> wrote in news:116gowjttsk7v.1j1edw3shlj64
$.dlg@40tude.net:

> Any ideas out there?
>
> Notes:
> The whole fan assy is just under 300 bucks. Bastards.

Okay, is the radiator a similar size to a AU/BA Falcon?

The electric twin fan assy is only $280 from Metro Ford Eagle Farm.
I fitted that unit on both Jaguars, in place of the thermo hubs.

Result is +200%.

Ron

Toby Ponsenby
07-06-2005, 08:13 PM
On 7 Jun 2005 08:35:26 GMT, rmcgrice wrote:

> Toby Ponsenby <toby@privacy.net> wrote in news:116gowjttsk7v.1j1edw3shlj64
> $.dlg@40tude.net:
>
>> Any ideas out there?
>>
>> Notes:
>> The whole fan assy is just under 300 bucks. Bastards.
>
> Okay, is the radiator a similar size to a AU/BA Falcon?
>
> The electric twin fan assy is only $280 from Metro Ford Eagle Farm.
> I fitted that unit on both Jaguars, in place of the thermo hubs.
>
> Result is +200%.
>
> Ron

Me check.
I know radiator is core size 330 x 500 odd.
Looks to be a standard sizing actually, and I was thinking of getting
the thing re-cored. Decided not to, though since the only problem is
the usual salt spray damage to the front few mm of the wee fins.

If the fix isn't in with the new goop, I'll certainly consider a Ford
or Commodore parts solution, since Kia no longer give a rats arse
about these trucks.
Heh, it'd go like a humming dunny with a GM V6, too.

--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

D Walford
07-06-2005, 08:43 PM
Toby Ponsenby wrote:
>

> Top idea. Trouble is noise, it's a farkin cab-over, and already bad
> news in the noise stakes.
>
My Hilux has one of those and the noise is bloody aweful.
If I'm not mistaken it gets noisier with the A/C on but I haven't looked
to see if it has any electrical connection.
If I keep it past the end of warranty a set of thermo's will be
investigated if for no other reason than to shut the damn thing up.



Daryl

rmcgrice
07-06-2005, 09:13 PM
Toby Ponsenby <toby@privacy.net> wrote in
news:3xg764yjxf3$.payk3p7p8q23.dlg@40tude.net:

> On 7 Jun 2005 08:35:26 GMT, rmcgrice wrote:
>
>> Toby Ponsenby <toby@privacy.net> wrote in
>> news:116gowjttsk7v.1j1edw3shlj64 $.dlg@40tude.net:
>>
>>> Any ideas out there?
>>>
>>> Notes:
>>> The whole fan assy is just under 300 bucks. Bastards.
>>
>> Okay, is the radiator a similar size to a AU/BA Falcon?
>>
>> The electric twin fan assy is only $280 from Metro Ford Eagle Farm.
>> I fitted that unit on both Jaguars, in place of the thermo hubs.
>>
>> Result is +200%.
>>
>> Ron
>
> Me check.
> I know radiator is core size 330 x 500 odd.

Too small.
best check the Jap Spares people, they may have a better fit.

Ron

Patrick Young
07-06-2005, 10:04 PM
Toby Ponsenby wrote:

> Just how does one test a viscostatic fan?
> The usual test is to turn the fan blade (engine off of course) and
> ensure there's some resistance.
> Yup. done that.

Pretty much. Step #2 is "check for damage and silicon oil leakage".

The manuel here does not go into further detail other than
"If necessary, replace the fluid coupling".

Was this a ploy to get me to look at even _more_ things to
look at for the upcoming service :-p

Seriously though, if it's providing correct cooling is
there a problem?

I'd say with mine, when warm to the touch would need around
100 grams or so hanging off the end of the blade to turn it
(very rough estimate). Could nudge it by finger anywhere up to
90 degrees.

Toby Ponsenby
07-06-2005, 10:43 PM
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:56:54 GMT, Patrick Young wrote:

> Toby Ponsenby wrote:
>
>> Just how does one test a viscostatic fan?
>> The usual test is to turn the fan blade (engine off of course) and
>> ensure there's some resistance.
>> Yup. done that.
>
> Pretty much. Step #2 is "check for damage and silicon oil leakage".
>
> The manuel here does not go into further detail other than
> "If necessary, replace the fluid coupling".
>
> Was this a ploy to get me to look at even _more_ things to
> look at for the upcoming service :-p
>
> Seriously though, if it's providing correct cooling is
> there a problem?
>
> I'd say with mine, when warm to the touch would need around
> 100 grams or so hanging off the end of the blade to turn it
> (very rough estimate). Could nudge it by finger anywhere up to
> 90 degrees.

Your Toyota fan clutch could well do with a change of fluid.
They are immeasurably better engineered than the one I just (I hope)
got back on its feet.
The fluid lever was down, as was my Cressida fan clutch, and no doubt
your Hiluxen.in both cases there was no sign of leakage. The stuff
must somehow disappear into the ether through the alloy:-)

Toyota Part Number is for 18 ML of Oil Silicone :
08816-10001
10000 Cat
You'll probably need 2 of.
They ain't cheap, IIRC about $26 ( I may be quite wrong with that
number) a tube and probably available 'somewhere' for 5 bucks a 20
litre drum, but natch, we can't find out:-)
Still waaay cheaper than the replacement clutch.

I reckon they'll have some at Artarmon, though they prefer to simply
replace clutches at dealerships like that. It's the weirdos who like
to figure out how to 'fix' things in the surrounding area that the
stuff will be stocked for.
From memory, making a 'brimmer' with one half of the fan clutch is the
right fluid level, and not a hell of a lot of use draining out the old
stuff unless it's somehow very different to the new goop.
Quite an easy job. Match marks required, 'cause Toyota probably have a
gnome in the factory that balances the things:-)
Have fun.

My bonus - new Cressida engine has trick hydraulic fan - magic.


--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

atec
08-06-2005, 12:14 AM
Toby Ponsenby wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:34:05 +1000, Rainbow Warrior wrote:
>
>
>
> Anyhow, I ripped it apart, and put two tubes of (hehe Toyota) goop in
> the hub.
> Probably not enough, but I'll find out when I put the thing back
> together AFTER I get some of those 'fast moving' parts from point(s)
> south. Like Radiator hoses that change diameter in the process of
> getting from A to B, FFS.
>
> Time will tell.
>
did you stop to think a grease nipple is quite handy on those hubs . ?

atec
08-06-2005, 12:14 AM
Toby Ponsenby wrote:
> On 7 Jun 2005 08:35:26 GMT, rmcgrice wrote:
>
>
>>Toby Ponsenby <toby@privacy.net> wrote in news:116gowjttsk7v.1j1edw3shlj64
>>$.dlg@40tude.net:
>>
>>
>>>Any ideas out there?
>>>
>>>Notes:
>>>The whole fan assy is just under 300 bucks. Bastards.
>>
>>Okay, is the radiator a similar size to a AU/BA Falcon?
>>
>>The electric twin fan assy is only $280 from Metro Ford Eagle Farm.
>>I fitted that unit on both Jaguars, in place of the thermo hubs.
>>
>>Result is +200%.
>>
>>Ron
>
>
> Me check.
> I know radiator is core size 330 x 500 odd.
> Looks to be a standard sizing actually, and I was thinking of getting
> the thing re-cored. Decided not to, though since the only problem is
> the usual salt spray damage to the front few mm of the wee fins.
>
> If the fix isn't in with the new goop, I'll certainly consider a Ford
> or Commodore parts solution, since Kia no longer give a rats arse
> about these trucks.
> Heh, it'd go like a humming dunny with a GM V6, too.
>
How thick is the silicon ?
the oil in photocopiers is actually a heavy silicon and quite
reasonable if you need some let me know , I know a couple of cheeper
places in Logan .

Toby Ponsenby
08-06-2005, 12:43 AM
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:09:12 +1000, atec wrote:

> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:09:12 +1000
> From: atec <atec77@XXXhotmail.com>
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> Subject: Re: Testing viscostatic fan?
> References: <116gowjttsk7v.1j1edw3shlj64$.dlg@40tude.net> <a2cpe.459$m74.2637@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au> <7hlcldss384l.45jawnv75lsr.dlg@40tude.net>
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>
> Toby Ponsenby wrote:
>> On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:34:05 +1000, Rainbow Warrior wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyhow, I ripped it apart, and put two tubes of (hehe Toyota) goop in
>> the hub.
>> Probably not enough, but I'll find out when I put the thing back
>> together AFTER I get some of those 'fast moving' parts from point(s)
>> south. Like Radiator hoses that change diameter in the process of
>> getting from A to B, FFS.
>>
>> Time will tell.
>>
> did you stop to think a grease nipple is quite handy on those hubs . ?

The dreaded SAE 140 routins.
Trust me, I'm close to that idea, and it's only 8 bolts away from
performing that task. Like I said, it's the noise problem I'm trying
to avoid at this point.
--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

Toby Ponsenby
08-06-2005, 12:43 AM
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:10:45 +1000, atec wrote:

> Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:10:45 +1000
> From: atec <atec77@XXXhotmail.com>
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8a6) Gecko/20050111
> X-Accept-Language: en, en-us
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> Subject: Re: Testing viscostatic fan?
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> Xref: news.sunsite.dk aus.cars:17157
>
> Toby Ponsenby wrote:
>> On 7 Jun 2005 08:35:26 GMT, rmcgrice wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Toby Ponsenby <toby@privacy.net> wrote in news:116gowjttsk7v.1j1edw3shlj64
>>>$.dlg@40tude.net:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Any ideas out there?
>>>>
>>>>Notes:
>>>>The whole fan assy is just under 300 bucks. Bastards.
>>>
>>>Okay, is the radiator a similar size to a AU/BA Falcon?
>>>
>>>The electric twin fan assy is only $280 from Metro Ford Eagle Farm.
>>>I fitted that unit on both Jaguars, in place of the thermo hubs.
>>>
>>>Result is +200%.
>>>
>>>Ron
>>
>>
>> Me check.
>> I know radiator is core size 330 x 500 odd.
>> Looks to be a standard sizing actually, and I was thinking of getting
>> the thing re-cored. Decided not to, though since the only problem is
>> the usual salt spray damage to the front few mm of the wee fins.
>>
>> If the fix isn't in with the new goop, I'll certainly consider a Ford
>> or Commodore parts solution, since Kia no longer give a rats arse
>> about these trucks.
>> Heh, it'd go like a humming dunny with a GM V6, too.
>>
> How thick is the silicon ?
> the oil in photocopiers is actually a heavy silicon and quite
> reasonable if you need some let me know , I know a couple of cheeper
> places in Logan .

Soem thoughts.
Runs a bit slower than molasses.
Closer to Maccas plasic cheese outa the gun:-)
Come to think of it, 140 would be about it, but with about 20% of the
old STP mixed in. very long chain behaviour.

--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

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