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atec
13-07-2005, 03:24 PM
Diesel Damo wrote:

> atec wrote:
>
>>So it costs a slab , I expect you have a mate ?
>
>
> Indeed. The bloke who manages the property next door has one hell of a
> welding set up. I was going to get him to weld a cage onto it, but
> getting him to do the whole thing might require more than just a case
> or two - his time is reasonbly precious.
>
> Still, I'll run the idea by him this weekend.
>
He should be able to teach you in about an hour , then rent it .

Diesel Damo
13-07-2005, 03:24 PM
atec wrote:
> He should be able to teach you in about an hour

Good point. I'll ask him about a lesson or two.

John_H
13-07-2005, 04:23 PM
Diesel Damo wrote:
>
>BTW, I've rented 8x5s before, so based on that I'd say 5' wide is
>legal. The little pissy one I have right now is so small I can't even
>see it behind the Hilux, so when reversing with it, you can't see it
>until it's already going off in the wrong direction. Not to mention it
>can only handle 8 bales of hay at a time (stacked 4x2).

Just meaured my own tandem, which happens to be 8 x 5 (for some reason
I thought it was 4' 6" wide). It's a little wider than ideal, as it
tracks slighty outside of the F100. Our car trailer is even wider,
which makes it a PIA to use around town, but it's still legal.

If you can live with the width and don't need sides or a solid floor
(for carting gravel, sand, etc) a car trailer is also good for things
like hay bales and pallets. Ours carries the loading ramps in the
centre which gives it a continuous extruded mesh floor (the stuff they
use for catwalks). Car trailers also have a lot better resale value
than box trailers IMHO.

--
John H

athol
13-07-2005, 05:24 PM
John_H <john4271@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Diesel Damo wrote:

>>For an 8x5 "offroader" (I think all that means is that it'll have some
>>decent tyres on it - that's all I can tell by the picture anyway) is
>>$2200.

Width is an issue. You can't go past an overall width of 2.5m. :-)

There are a couple of widths (2200mm being one IIRC) where the lighting
requirements change (front marker lights, etc.)

> Offroader, sounds more like it's not legal to register (5' is awfully
> wide).

An HQ Holden has a 5 foot track stock. How wide do you think that a
car trailer is?

> There's vast differences in quality of construction as well as
> equipment levels.

Not fecking wrong!

Some trailers are designed to be used at about half their rating and
will handle the _very_ occasional full load. Try loading them up on
a regular basis and they'll fall to bits very quickly. Seen one such
recently...

> Lights and wiring (which you can easily do yourself)

Yep. Easy to do a much better quality job than the usual stuff...

Put a 12-pin trailer connector on the towing vehicle, including
wiring the electric brakes (if applicable), fog lights and a wire to
the "accessory" wire for a spotlight or worklight - put a socket in a
convenient spot so that you can have a light on a post (eg on the
drawbar) while loading and unloading. Nothing worse than working in
the dark loading or unloading a trailer.

For rough terrain, the LED type trailer lights are best, as they are
far less likely to fail from bumps... Don't forget a rear fog or 2,
particularly considering where you are.

> and coupled brakes all add considerably to the cost.

Not forgetting that to get 1.5T carrying capacity will be getting up
around the 2000kg ATM (trailer plus load), above which the brakes
must operate on all wheels and there must be breakaway brakes.

That is a major jump in price...

> There's a lot of general engineering businesses that will build a
> trailer to order at a lot better price (and quality) than you'll ever
> get out of a dealer's yard. It's a matter of finding one with a good
> reputation.

Not wrong.

> At a minumum I'd be looking for an RHS frame and chequerplate floor.
> Angle iron sucks (as well as flexing and twisting).

2mm or 2.5mm wall RHS isn't a whole lot better...

> There was also a time (probably long past) when CIG (now BOC) would
> supply plans for both a 6 x 4 box trailer and a tandem car trailer.
> They were sufficiently popular in their day that a lot of the larger
> steel merchants supplied kits, with all the steel components pre-cut.
> Axle and sundry fittings had to be sourced separately and are usually
> available direct from the manufacturers at wholesale prices.

> If you're able to weld, or know someone who does it might pay to ask
> around in case kits are still available -- alternatively if you can
> come up with a plan any number of places should be able to pre-cut the
> steel bits (which is often the worst part of building your own -- as
> well as wastage).

A cheap steel drop saw could pay for itself quite quickly in this type
of application...

> It might also pay to find out what regulations apply in your own
> state... in Q it's only necessary to have a box trailer inspected and
> measured up at a police station. I'm pretty sure that larger trailers
> require a compliance plate from a certified "engineer" (of which
> there's plenty around).

Download this .pdf:
<http://www.dotars.gov.au/transreg/vsb/PDF/vsb_01.pdf>
It's the national dot-to-dot instructions on building trailers. :-)

NSW:

Go into an RTA registry and fill out a stat dec stating that you're
building a home-made trailer. They will issue a VIN.

Buy a trailer plate from a trailer parts place along with axles, brakes,
coupling, etc.. You'll need to stamp or engrave this plate with some
stuff like tyre size, inflation pressure, etc., plus the VIN. There are
boxes on the plate for all the required info.

The VIN also gets stamped in the trailer frame using letters no less
than 7mm high.

Take to weighbridge for tare weighbridge ticket.

Take to AUVIS for blue slip.

Take paperwork to RTA to register.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
The state of infrastructure in New South Wales is a disgrace.
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

athol
13-07-2005, 05:24 PM
John_H <john4271@hotmail.com> wrote:

> If you can live with the width and don't need sides or a solid floor
> (for carting gravel, sand, etc) a car trailer is also good for things
> like hay bales and pallets.

How about throwing a piece of conveyor belting on the deck when needed?

A set of drop-in sides and you've got a bloody big box trailer. :-)

> Ours carries the loading ramps in the
> centre which gives it a continuous extruded mesh floor (the stuff they
> use for catwalks). Car trailers also have a lot better resale value
> than box trailers IMHO.

True. I'm seriously considering buying a car trailer ATM.

Haven't started looking at pricing _yet_.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
The state of infrastructure in New South Wales is a disgrace.
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

rmcgrice
13-07-2005, 05:53 PM
athol <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:1121239393.981460@idlweb:

> John_H <john4271@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you can live with the width and don't need sides or a solid floor
>> (for carting gravel, sand, etc) a car trailer is also good for things
>> like hay bales and pallets.
>
> How about throwing a piece of conveyor belting on the deck when needed?
>
> A set of drop-in sides and you've got a bloody big box trailer. :-)
>
>> Ours carries the loading ramps in the
>> centre which gives it a continuous extruded mesh floor (the stuff they
>> use for catwalks). Car trailers also have a lot better resale value
>> than box trailers IMHO.
>
> True. I'm seriously considering buying a car trailer ATM.
>
> Haven't started looking at pricing _yet_.
>

Athol, It would be cheaper to make it yourself.
Seeing what you do with cars, a trailer would not be a challenge.

Ron

D Walford
13-07-2005, 06:14 PM
Diesel Damo wrote:
>
> It's been a lot of years since I looked at prices for box trailers.
> I've only called one place so far, so haven't shopped around yet, but
> the prices completely stunned me.
>
> For an 8x5 "offroader" (I think all that means is that it'll have some
> decent tyres on it - that's all I can tell by the picture anyway) is
> $2200.
>
> Does that sound normal to you? I was expecting around $1000. Am I
> crazy?

Prices for trailers vary greatly depending on quality.
There is a lot of difference between a cheapy that is used occasionally
to do a run to the tip and a trademans trailer thats used every day.
A trailer parts supplier not far from me sells trailer kits and they are
about half the price of a finished trailer, if you know your way around
a welder they aren't difficult to put together.
The mate who built the Lotus 7 replica built a small car trailer for not
much more than $1000.00 and it took us 2 saturdays to complete.



Daryl

John_H
13-07-2005, 06:23 PM
athol wrote:

>John_H <john4271@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you're able to weld, or know someone who does it might pay to ask
>> around in case kits are still available -- alternatively if you can
>> come up with a plan any number of places should be able to pre-cut the
>> steel bits (which is often the worst part of building your own -- as
>> well as wastage).
>
>A cheap steel drop saw could pay for itself quite quickly in this type
>of application...

Possibly not. RHS, for example, often comes in 9 metre lengths so
you're likely to have a lot left over -- which gets expensive if you
haven't got a use for the remainders.

Also, the cutting equipment used by steel merchants and engineering
shops is about ten times faster than abrasive discs. In the days when
kits were available it was always a better option than cutting it
yourself.

I've got a 340 mm drop saw (abrasive disc), as well as oxy and the use
of a plasma cutter and it's often still cheaper to get the steel
supplier to do the cutting. It's also a lot easier to cart home in
short lengths.

--
John H

athol
13-07-2005, 06:34 PM
rmcgrice <mcgrice@newsguy.com> wrote:

> Athol, It would be cheaper to make it yourself.
> Seeing what you do with cars, a trailer would not be a challenge.

Not only that, but I'd likely order my VIN directly from the RTA's
VINs unit (I get heavy trailer VINS from them frequently). :-)

I bought a mig recently (haven't hired a bottle yet - haven't had
time). :-( I'll have to decide between Linde, BOC, etc..

I could build a trailer. I have no doubt about that. The real
problem would be having the time to do it...

I want to get rid of at least one Volvo shell sooner than I'd be
likely to build a trailer.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
The state of infrastructure in New South Wales is a disgrace.
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

athol
13-07-2005, 07:03 PM
John_H <john4271@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Possibly not. RHS, for example, often comes in 9 metre lengths so
> you're likely to have a lot left over -- which gets expensive if you
> haven't got a use for the remainders.

Unlikely to ever be a problem for me. :-)

Actually, I know someone who would weld the frame for me and supply the
materials at a reasonable price... Just needs a design to work from,
then I'd need to get it home to assemble the rest, paint, etc..

> Also, the cutting equipment used by steel merchants and engineering
> shops is about ten times faster than abrasive discs. In the days when
> kits were available it was always a better option than cutting it
> yourself.

Sounds fair. Should look to see if kits are still available.

The other thing that I remember noticing a while back is that an old
2nd hand frame can be quite cheap if the running gear is stuffed, so I
may yet look around for a good frame. If it's got a rego history, so
much the better.

I get to see fully reco'd heavy trailers. Old frame with a bit of a
tidy up (and usually extend from 40ft to 45ft), new brake kit, tyres
and a respray.

Now I've thought of at least 2 places I could ask about an old frame to
do up... Going to one of them tomorrow.

> I've got a 340 mm drop saw (abrasive disc), as well as oxy and the use
> of a plasma cutter and it's often still cheaper to get the steel
> supplier to do the cutting.

Yeah. If they know the lengths, etc., it'd make sense.

> It's also a lot easier to cart home in short lengths.

Particularly if you don't have a trailer to carry it in. :-p

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
The state of infrastructure in New South Wales is a disgrace.
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

rmcgrice
13-07-2005, 07:53 PM
athol <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:1121243297.216560@idlweb:

> rmcgrice <mcgrice@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>> Athol, It would be cheaper to make it yourself.
>> Seeing what you do with cars, a trailer would not be a challenge.
>
> Not only that, but I'd likely order my VIN directly from the RTA's
> VINs unit (I get heavy trailer VINS from them frequently). :-)
>
> I bought a mig recently (haven't hired a bottle yet - haven't had
> time). :-( I'll have to decide between Linde, BOC, etc..
>
> I could build a trailer. I have no doubt about that. The real
> problem would be having the time to do it...
>
> I want to get rid of at least one Volvo shell sooner than I'd be
> likely to build a trailer.
>

Hang in there, Athol.
You can do it and make it perfect for your needs.

Ron

jb
13-07-2005, 07:53 PM
> Don't know about you, but I've been mig welding for years and have never
had
> to untangle a spool of wire once, and I change spools a couple of times a
> month.

Must be something about me and MIG's.

Admittedly, the last and only time I've ever used one, it was a twenty year
old (at the time) school metalwork job.

-mark

girl-sat
13-07-2005, 09:03 PM
never said it would not do it,infact you must not have read my post,
Also i would find using a mig more easy,as you don't have to **** with
bloddy rods all day...lol.
A good high power arch is worth a bit more than $150 and would be a
pointless purchase for the home handy man,unless he welds bed frames
all day.

John McKenzie
13-07-2005, 09:13 PM
Noddy wrote:
>
> Very few home welders have the equipment or skill to
> make them a useful tool.

And very few 'home' level welders are worth pissing on. Some of the
smaller transmigs for example - I would rather piss on one whilst it was
active and die that have to try and persevere with it (I had ongoing
wire feed issues, perforations in the shield gas pipe, from the factory,
thus negating it's ability to do it's job, and then problems with
intermittent current supply)

I'd happily give away what I've got left of the transmig 130 than spend
another cent on it.

I'm thinking very seriously about a new one (I've got the dough to
spend, but I might not use one much any longer)


> Don't know about you, but I've been mig welding for years and have never had
> to untangle a spool of wire once, and I change spools a couple of times a
> month.

On some of the shittier welders, esp those that use the tiny spools, the
spool 'axle' provides either zero 'preload/breakaway resistance' (and so
allows it to unravel if you are unfortunate enough) or nipping it a bit
tighter (perhaps shimming the spring) will cause it to bind to the point
the wire feed will slip. Then you overadjust the wire feed tension and
it starts to try and bruise/kink the wire.

--
John McKenzie

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girl-sat
13-07-2005, 10:33 PM
You will never weld low gauge exhaurst pipe with a cheap arch,the weld
is too dirty,you pipe will fall to bits unpon heat and cold
expansion,too much heat is disapated from a $150 arch to weld thin
panels,upgrade to a more professional adjustable voltage arch,it will
work just but,nobody ever bothers in a professional feild due to the
slag produced from the flux in arch rods.
To be really hounest,some of the product from my gassless panel welding
comes out in a product the best and only in this state....LMAO

I have uses for an arch i also have uses for my cheap mig.

If anyone even mentions wire feed problems on their mig on this
thread,they have used it for a too heavy duty opperation and for a
prolonged period past what it is capable off and need to upgrade to a
bigger more industrial model.
Archs are for heavy duty work full stop these days,and yes they require
a little skill.
Mig over arch anyday for me and with the price of steel,the lower the
gauge the better,therfore mig or tig is the answer.

http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/9682/sidefront1359pa.jpg
http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/2504/135front7an.jpg
Thanks to ImageShack.com

PS. The panels have a ferrari finish so to speak,this is not a five
minute panel job or rebuild job,these are bare metel resprayed and
totally rebuilt and everything is brand new that can be.
These things actually go to work on strangly enough....

Antti
13-07-2005, 10:33 PM
On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:12:59 -0700, Diesel Damo wrote:

> It's been a lot of years since I looked at prices for box trailers.
> I've only called one place so far, so haven't shopped around yet, but
> the prices completely stunned me.

I got my (garden variety) trailer for somewhere around $150.

The trailer itself for nothing because a corner of the floor had rusted
through. $10 for some steel and some mig welding. $40 for new bushes, a
tail light, reflectors and such. The rest for inspection and rego.

Gotta like people who use trailers to store lawn clippings. :o)

Antti

Rainbow Warrior
14-07-2005, 12:53 AM
"Diesel Damo" <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1121220779.136786.75640@g49g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> It's been a lot of years since I looked at prices for box trailers.
> I've only called one place so far, so haven't shopped around yet, but
> the prices completely stunned me.
>
> For an 8x5 "offroader" (I think all that means is that it'll have some
> decent tyres on it - that's all I can tell by the picture anyway) is
> $2200.

It may also mean it has big tyres on it to match towing height for a 4x4 or
high clearance axle setup.

>
> Does that sound normal to you? I was expecting around $1000. Am I
> crazy?
>
> A dual axle one is $2700, and it just skyrockets from there all the way
> up to $7200.
>
> --
> Deflated Damo.
>

Rainbow Warrior
14-07-2005, 12:53 AM
"Diesel Damo" <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1121228757.985736.62540@g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Allan A wrote:
> > Bought a 6x4 "commercial duty" [...] It cost me $880.
>
> It must be the fact that I'm after an 8x5 that is making it cost so
> much then.

Yep, 6x4 are common as sand, hence cheap & competatively priced

>
> As for tyres, I'd need something that is fairly puncture resistant.
> Last time I borrowed a friend's horse float (with old road tyres) I had
> two punctures just in the journey of returning it to him empty.
>

Rainbow Warrior
14-07-2005, 01:03 AM
"Michael C" <me@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:42d490b3$0$18640$14726298@news.sunsite.dk...
> "Diesel Damo" <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:1121226098.959444.243460@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
> > I've never welded before though =(
>
> Good time to learn. Welding something like a trailer with a mig is pretty
> easy, it's only difficult welding thin or rusted metal. An arc might be a
> little more difficult but I wouldn't rule it out.
>
> Michael

Just don't complain next time a tailgate falls off on the road infront of
you from a novice welders first trailer :)


>
>

kevcat
14-07-2005, 02:53 AM
why don't you learn to drive and you wouldn't have to spend all that
time fixing your car panels

Anyone got a cheap Mig capable of welding Aluminium
got a few mods I wanna do on my boat

Kev

girl-sat wrote:
>
> You will never weld low gauge exhaurst pipe with a cheap arch,the weld
> is too dirty,you pipe will fall to bits unpon heat and cold
> expansion,too much heat is disapated from a $150 arch to weld thin
> panels,upgrade to a more professional adjustable voltage arch,it will
> work just but,nobody ever bothers in a professional feild due to the
> slag produced from the flux in arch rods.
> To be really hounest,some of the product from my gassless panel welding
> comes out in a product the best and only in this state....LMAO
>
> I have uses for an arch i also have uses for my cheap mig.
>
> If anyone even mentions wire feed problems on their mig on this
> thread,they have used it for a too heavy duty opperation and for a
> prolonged period past what it is capable off and need to upgrade to a
> bigger more industrial model.
> Archs are for heavy duty work full stop these days,and yes they require
> a little skill.
> Mig over arch anyday for me and with the price of steel,the lower the
> gauge the better,therfore mig or tig is the answer.
>
> http://img315.imageshack.us/img315/9682/sidefront1359pa.jpg
> http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/2504/135front7an.jpg
> Thanks to ImageShack.com
>
> PS. The panels have a ferrari finish so to speak,this is not a five
> minute panel job or rebuild job,these are bare metel resprayed and
> totally rebuilt and everything is brand new that can be.
> These things actually go to work on strangly enough....

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