Question on shock absorbers.

[Diesel Damo]

As many here know, I drive a 4WD Hilux with very stiff leaf springs.
Coming home from Goulburn yesterday (via the really horrendous and
looooong section of our road), I heard a big *thunk* going over some
particularly bad canyons (pot holes).

I got out to find my front-left shock was no longer connected at the
top, and the nut and washers were nowhere to be seen. I tried simply
placing it back under the bracket with the thread going through the
hole, but of course, the next big dip/bump/rise would pop it out again.

I made it home okay, and noticed that without that shock in place, big
bumps were no longer so traumatic for the whole car. Oddly enough, I
*don't* have any bits and pieces at home to fix it up again, and I have
to go down to Sydney tonight.

So my question is, if I completely remove *both* front shockies and
then drive 250 kays, am I doing any considerable damage to anything?

I can fix it up easily enough down in Sydney, but is what I'm
suggesting bad enough that I should leave the Hilux at home and take
the 'rolla instead?

Any thoughts appreciated.

[rmcgrice]

"Diesel Damo" <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:1121561499.156898.208230@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com:

> As many here know, I drive a 4WD Hilux with very stiff leaf springs.
> Coming home from Goulburn yesterday (via the really horrendous and
> looooong section of our road), I heard a big *thunk* going over some
> particularly bad canyons (pot holes).
>
> I got out to find my front-left shock was no longer connected at the
> top, and the nut and washers were nowhere to be seen. I tried simply
> placing it back under the bracket with the thread going through the
> hole, but of course, the next big dip/bump/rise would pop it out again.
>
> I made it home okay, and noticed that without that shock in place, big
> bumps were no longer so traumatic for the whole car. Oddly enough, I
> *don't* have any bits and pieces at home to fix it up again, and I have
> to go down to Sydney tonight.
>
> So my question is, if I completely remove *both* front shockies and
> then drive 250 kays, am I doing any considerable damage to anything?
>
> I can fix it up easily enough down in Sydney, but is what I'm
> suggesting bad enough that I should leave the Hilux at home and take
> the 'rolla instead?
>
> Any thoughts appreciated.
>
>

Personally, I'd take another vehicle.
Without shockabsorbers it could get dangerous if a bit of momentum took
up. I have driven a vehicle with very bad shockies on the rear and it
was not fun. Front would be far worse.

Ron

[atec]

Diesel Damo wrote:
> As many here know, I drive a 4WD Hilux with very stiff leaf springs.
> Coming home from Goulburn yesterday (via the really horrendous and
> looooong section of our road), I heard a big *thunk* going over some
> particularly bad canyons (pot holes).
>
> I got out to find my front-left shock was no longer connected at the
> top, and the nut and washers were nowhere to be seen. I tried simply
> placing it back under the bracket with the thread going through the
> hole, but of course, the next big dip/bump/rise would pop it out again.
>
> I made it home okay, and noticed that without that shock in place, big
> bumps were no longer so traumatic for the whole car. Oddly enough, I
> *don't* have any bits and pieces at home to fix it up again, and I have
> to go down to Sydney tonight.
>
> So my question is, if I completely remove *both* front shockies and
> then drive 250 kays, am I doing any considerable damage to anything?
>
> I can fix it up easily enough down in Sydney, but is what I'm
> suggesting bad enough that I should leave the Hilux at home and take
> the 'rolla instead?
>
> Any thoughts appreciated.
>
You could , but it might be risky undamped if you hit certain road
condition , ins't there a local place where you can find the bits ?

[Diesel Damo]

rmcgrice wrote:

> Personally, I'd take another vehicle.
> Without shockabsorbers it could get dangerous if a bit of momentum took
> up. I have driven a vehicle with very bad shockies on the rear and it
> was not fun. Front would be far worse.
>
> Ron

Yeah I understand where you're coming from, but given my leaf springs
are so stiff anyway, I thought maybe no shock would be better than crap
shock.

My very basic understanding of shockies is that their primary role is
pretty much to stop the car bouncing around all over the place on it's
springs. It's just that I noticed that didn't happen when I came home
from Goulburn with no front-right shock (which I'm attributing to
spring stiffness).

I've still got hours to go before I have to make a decision one way or
the other, but driving the 'rolla in these conditions, even with it's
AWD, I'd be four times more likely to come to grief than driving the
Hilux (as in Hilux in it's fully healthy form).

[Diesel Damo]

atec wrote:
> but it might be risky undamped if you hit certain road condition

Yeah that's what's concerning me. I'm just wondering if the stiffness
of my springs might cover at least the majority of that risk.

> ins't there a local place where you can find the bits ?

90 kays away, and that would involve all the risky bits that I'd be
driving on the way to Sydney anyway - be it in the 'rolla or the Hilux.

[John_H]

Diesel Damo wrote:

>As many here know, I drive a 4WD Hilux with very stiff leaf springs.
>Coming home from Goulburn yesterday (via the really horrendous and
>looooong section of our road), I heard a big *thunk* going over some
>particularly bad canyons (pot holes).
>
>I got out to find my front-left shock was no longer connected at the
>top, and the nut and washers were nowhere to be seen. I tried simply
>placing it back under the bracket with the thread going through the
>hole, but of course, the next big dip/bump/rise would pop it out again.
>
>I made it home okay, and noticed that without that shock in place, big
>bumps were no longer so traumatic for the whole car. Oddly enough, I
>*don't* have any bits and pieces at home to fix it up again, and I have
>to go down to Sydney tonight.
>
>So my question is, if I completely remove *both* front shockies and
>then drive 250 kays, am I doing any considerable damage to anything?

Won't damage anything and on something like a Hilux with a beam axle
and not much overhang driveability shouldn't be a problem. However it
might be deemed unroadworthy if the authorities had cause to inspect
it.

You could easily do a makeshift repair with one large washer, one 10mm
nut and a couple of pieces of rubber cut from an old tyre.
Aftermarket rubbers (or urethane alternatives) ought be available from
Repco or similar.

--
John H

[Toby Ponsenby]

On 16 Jul 2005 17:51:39 -0700, Diesel Damo wrote:

> As many here know, I drive a 4WD Hilux with very stiff leaf springs.
> Coming home from Goulburn yesterday (via the really horrendous and
> looooong section of our road), I heard a big *thunk* going over some
> particularly bad canyons (pot holes).
>
> I got out to find my front-left shock was no longer connected at the
> top, and the nut and washers were nowhere to be seen. I tried simply
> placing it back under the bracket with the thread going through the
> hole, but of course, the next big dip/bump/rise would pop it out again.
>
> I made it home okay, and noticed that without that shock in place, big
> bumps were no longer so traumatic for the whole car. Oddly enough, I
> *don't* have any bits and pieces at home to fix it up again, and I have
> to go down to Sydney tonight.
>
> So my question is, if I completely remove *both* front shockies and
> then drive 250 kays, am I doing any considerable damage to anything?
>
> I can fix it up easily enough down in Sydney, but is what I'm
> suggesting bad enough that I should leave the Hilux at home and take
> the 'rolla instead?
>
> Any thoughts appreciated.

Been wondering about live axle cars and whether they really need
damping on both bump and rebound. Should dampers actually assist the
springs to resist bump?
IIRC the early 47 series cruiser (utes) had single acting dampers, on
rebound only. Seemed to work well enough, the dampers didn't
contribute to the rough ride.

Trouble is, I don't think you can buy single acting dampers any more?

If they were available, they should be cheap as chips and therefore
worth a trial run just for the hell of it:-)


--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

[Rainbow Warrior]

"Diesel Damo" <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1121561499.156898.208230@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> As many here know, I drive a 4WD Hilux with very stiff leaf springs.
> Coming home from Goulburn yesterday (via the really horrendous and
> looooong section of our road), I heard a big *thunk* going over some
> particularly bad canyons (pot holes).
>
> I got out to find my front-left shock was no longer connected at the
> top, and the nut and washers were nowhere to be seen. I tried simply
> placing it back under the bracket with the thread going through the
> hole, but of course, the next big dip/bump/rise would pop it out again.
>
> I made it home okay, and noticed that without that shock in place, big
> bumps were no longer so traumatic for the whole car. Oddly enough, I
> *don't* have any bits and pieces at home to fix it up again, and I have
> to go down to Sydney tonight.
>
> So my question is, if I completely remove *both* front shockies and
> then drive 250 kays, am I doing any considerable damage to anything?
>
> I can fix it up easily enough down in Sydney, but is what I'm
> suggesting bad enough that I should leave the Hilux at home and take
> the 'rolla instead?
>
> Any thoughts appreciated.

You may be better controlled with both off, front might be hairy if it
starts to oscilate.
I took the shocks off the rear my Ex-Army Landrover and it made no
difference, but then the leaf spring pack was 9 leaves thick, I put them
back on for looks.
But when I took them off my coil sprung Sigma it would continue bouncing for
around 3 minutes after jumping up and down on the towbar.
I'd drive the other car myself or make a bush repair.

[Rainbow Warrior]

"Toby Ponsenby" <toby@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:4f5qy466vrhg.gidqoylzf7lx.dlg@40tude.net...
> Been wondering about live axle cars and whether they really need
> damping on both bump and rebound. Should dampers actually assist the
> springs to resist bump?

Live axle leaf spring perhaps not depending on the stiffness, but live axle
coils sprung definately need dampers.

[Diesel Damo]

John_H wrote:
> Won't damage anything and on something like a Hilux with a beam axle
> and not much overhang driveability shouldn't be a problem.

Just did a test drive around the property and driveability seems to be
okay. I only hit speeds up to 60km/h though.

> However it might be deemed unroadworthy if the authorities
> had cause to inspect it.

Yeah I would imagine so.

> You could easily do a makeshift repair with one large washer, one 10mm
> nut and a couple of pieces of rubber cut from an old tyre.

That's the crazy thing. I've got everything I need except the nut to
fit! <hangs head in shame>

[John_H]

Toby Ponsenby wrote:
>
>Been wondering about live axle cars and whether they really need
>damping on both bump and rebound. Should dampers actually assist the
>springs to resist bump?

Or whether they need damping at all.... Most trucks don't have shock
absorbers (or at least not the ones I'm used to seeing).

The phenomenon you're most likely to observe on a lighter vehicle
without front shocks is axle tramp -- not to be confused with axle hop
(which affects rear axles) but frequently is.

It's almost worth removing the shocks just to know what the real thing
feels like -- relatively harmless though it be.

Axle tramp is a precessional affect that can occur under braking on an
uneven surface when the wheels aren't pointing directly ahead. If one
wheel momentarily locks the result will be rapidly alternating weight
transfer from side to side -- a bit like the breakstep bridge
simulators on Mythbusters.

--
John H

[Rainbow Warrior]

Borrow one off somewhere else on the Hilux or Corolla

"Diesel Damo" <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1121566424.972056.322190@z14g2000cwz.googlegr oups.com...
> John_H wrote:
> > Won't damage anything and on something like a Hilux with a beam axle
> > and not much overhang driveability shouldn't be a problem.
>
> Just did a test drive around the property and driveability seems to be
> okay. I only hit speeds up to 60km/h though.
>
> > However it might be deemed unroadworthy if the authorities
> > had cause to inspect it.
>
> Yeah I would imagine so.
>
> > You could easily do a makeshift repair with one large washer, one 10mm
> > nut and a couple of pieces of rubber cut from an old tyre.
>
> That's the crazy thing. I've got everything I need except the nut to
> fit! <hangs head in shame>
>

[Patrick Young]

Diesel Damo wrote:

> As many here know, I drive a 4WD Hilux with very stiff leaf springs.
> Coming home from Goulburn yesterday (via the really horrendous and
> looooong section of our road), I heard a big *thunk* going over some
> particularly bad canyons (pot holes).

Procedure is to remove it altogether and throw it in the back.

I remember a time I was out 4x4 (well I was on the dirt bike) with
someone I knew who had a 4x4 double cab 'lux, solid axle and with a
Commode V6.

Lets just say the driving got sprited enough (not to mention the
bit using a very long snatch strap to try and _yank_ a 40 series
out of the mud bog - think reverse up to the 40 then floor it!)
to totally snap the front pax side one off. I noticed it hanging
there as we were about to leave to go home.

No need for this to be an inconvenience, as Rainbow said, simply
borrow a not so important nut from somewhere else or the 'rolla.

Do you still have that old 4Runner there? - that should have a
collection.

[atec]

Diesel Damo wrote:

> atec wrote:
>
>>but it might be risky undamped if you hit certain road condition
>
>
> Yeah that's what's concerning me. I'm just wondering if the stiffness
> of my springs might cover at least the majority of that risk.
>
>
>>ins't there a local place where you can find the bits ?
>
>
> 90 kays away, and that would involve all the risky bits that I'd be
> driving on the way to Sydney anyway - be it in the 'rolla or the Hilux.
>
I expect it will be a slow corning technique in use then and very
moderate on the straights

[Diesel Damo]

atec wrote:
> I expect it will be a slow corning technique in use then and very
> moderate on the straights

Yep. I'll be carefully tip-toeing my way down to Sydney, that's for
sure.

[Diesel Damo]

Rainbow Warrior wrote:
> Borrow one off somewhere else on the Hilux or Corolla

I did have a bit of a look around and might have a better look later,
but I'm a bit busy with other crap today too so it remains to be seen
what my options are come 5:30pm.

I've got a 4-Runner here for spares, but since my bro-in-law (the guy
who gave me the 4-Runner) got himself another Hilux, it's pretty much
just engine, chassis and body panels now with all the parts we've both
been stripping off it.

[Diesel Damo]

Patrick Young wrote:
> No need for this to be an inconvenience, as Rainbow said,
> simply borrow a not so important nut from somewhere else
> or the 'rolla.

The missus isn't too happy with me touching "her" Corolla =)

But I might have a better look around both the Hilux and the 4-Runner a
bit later on, although as I said to Rainbow, the 4-Runner is pretty
much just engine and shell these days.

Plus, this'll make me get off my arse and get new shocks all-round =)

[Rainbow Warrior]

"Diesel Damo" <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1121576341.202972.27660@g44g2000cwa.googlegro ups.com...
> Rainbow Warrior wrote:
> > Borrow one off somewhere else on the Hilux or Corolla
>
> I did have a bit of a look around and might have a better look later,
> but I'm a bit busy with other crap today too so it remains to be seen
> what my options are come 5:30pm.
>
> I've got a 4-Runner here for spares, but since my bro-in-law (the guy
> who gave me the 4-Runner) got himself another Hilux, it's pretty much
> just engine, chassis and body panels now with all the parts we've both
> been stripping off it.

Surely there'd have to be a 10mm nut somewhere on the engine :-)

[hippo]

If push comes to shove and you were *really* desperate I s'pose you could
always do the tyre bush and thick washer trick then drill the bolt and put
a thiskish pin through. Mind you, if the leaves are that rigid you probably
wouldn't hit a major oscillation problem unless you went through major
regular dirt corrugations or crap like the old Grafton concrete Hwy at
highish speed. Good luck. Cheers

[Albm&ctd]

In article
<1121561499.156898.208230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au says...

> Any thoughts appreciated.
>
I can't believe you are asking if it's OK to drive a defective
vehicle.

Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html