DNA clues kept in shipping container

[Ext User(Paul Nutteing)]

"Temperature variation does not affect the integrity of the samples for DNA
testing."

so why otherwise keep it frozen then ?

http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,16398134%255E
3102,00.html
DNA clues kept in shipping container
Tuck Thompson and Hedley Thomas
27aug05
SENSITIVE DNA evidence is being stored in a shipping container and a shed in
a Queensland Health parking lot.
The property is generally monitored for security but there is no fence
protecting the temporary refrigerated storage facilities at the John Tonge
forensic centre at Coopers Plains, a southern suburb of Brisbane.
DNA evidence is vital to hundreds of criminal court cases across the state.
Sources last night said the samples had been in the car park for between six
and 10 weeks. Queensland Health last night admitted the evidence had been
shifted after a refrigeration storage unit failed and said it was
considering increasing security.
The centre's freezer would cost $200,000 to replace, it said in a statement
but did not provide any information about when that might happen.
"No damage or loss occurred during the transfer. Temperatures are constantly
monitored with data loggers and physically checked daily," the statement
said.
"Security measures are currently being examined with a view to strengthening
all physical access points to the campus.
"Due to the climate in Queensland, Queensland Health Scientific Services has
instituted an additional but non-essential protocol that involves freezing
exhibits to prevent the growth of mould.
"Temperature variation does not affect the integrity of the samples for DNA
testing."
Moving the samples to shipping containers was part of the QHSS disaster
management plan, the statement said.
Magistrates and solicitors have criticised the John Tonge centre over long
delays in testing DNA and drug samples.
Earlier this year, a Southport magistrate angrily dismissed charges against
three accused drug offenders because of delays of more than 12 months in
processing drug samples.
The State Government later announced plans to outsource up to 10,000
scientific tests in a bid to clear the backlog at John Tonge.
However in June, former health minister Gordon Nuttall admitted he had
failed to meet his promise of outsourcing the DNA testing.
He also had not started to hire international scientists for the
overburdened centre.
The state has opened a forensic laboratory on the Gold Coast to ease the
workload, but scientific police say it could place more of a burden on them.
Yesterday, there were no security guards seen patrolling the John Tonge
parking area and the shed and shipping container remained unprotected by
barriers.
Forensic scientists at the centre have been threatened not to speak about
testing problems.
It is understood the centre's management has warned scientists who leak
information about problems could be jailed.
Opposition health spokesman Stuart Copeland said the situation was typical
of Queensland Health.
"It shows a complete lack of appreciation for the necessity of maintaining
evidence once gathered in a safe location and places at risk potential
prosecutions so it could allow criminals to walk free," Mr Copeland said.
The lab's shortcomings have caused major problems for the court system.
In one case, a Brisbane magistrate was told a scientist could not be
assigned to a drug case until 2007. Queensland Health blamed the delay on a
worldwide shortage of scientists with the appropriate experience.

What they aren't telling you about DNA profiles
and what Special Branch don't want you to know.
http://www.nutteing2.50megs.com/dnapr.htm
or nutteingd in a search engine

Valid email nutteing@fastmail.....fm (remove 4 of the 5 dots)
Ignore any other apparent em address used to post this message -
it is defunct due to spam.

[Ext User(Strabo)]

In DNA clues kept in shipping container on Sat, 27 Aug 2005
08:54:59 +0100, by Paul Nutteing, we read:

>"Temperature variation does not affect the integrity of the samples for DNA
>testing."
>
>so why otherwise keep it frozen then ?
>
>http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,16398134%255E
>3102,00.html
>DNA clues kept in shipping container
>Tuck Thompson and Hedley Thomas
>27aug05
>SENSITIVE DNA evidence is being stored in a shipping container and a shed in
>a Queensland Health parking lot.
>The property is generally monitored for security but there is no fence
>protecting the temporary refrigerated storage facilities at the John Tonge
>forensic centre at Coopers Plains, a southern suburb of Brisbane.
>DNA evidence is vital to hundreds of criminal court cases across the state.
>Sources last night said the samples had been in the car park for between six
>and 10 weeks. Queensland Health last night admitted the evidence had been
>shifted after a refrigeration storage unit failed and said it was
>considering increasing security.
>The centre's freezer would cost $200,000 to replace, it said in a statement
>but did not provide any information about when that might happen.
>"No damage or loss occurred during the transfer. Temperatures are constantly
>monitored with data loggers and physically checked daily," the statement
>said.
>"Security measures are currently being examined with a view to strengthening
>all physical access points to the campus.
>"Due to the climate in Queensland, Queensland Health Scientific Services has
>instituted an additional but non-essential protocol that involves freezing
>exhibits to prevent the growth of mould.
>"Temperature variation does not affect the integrity of the samples for DNA
>testing."
>Moving the samples to shipping containers was part of the QHSS disaster
>management plan, the statement said.
>Magistrates and solicitors have criticised the John Tonge centre over long
>delays in testing DNA and drug samples.
>Earlier this year, a Southport magistrate angrily dismissed charges against
>three accused drug offenders because of delays of more than 12 months in
>processing drug samples.
>The State Government later announced plans to outsource up to 10,000
>scientific tests in a bid to clear the backlog at John Tonge.
>However in June, former health minister Gordon Nuttall admitted he had
>failed to meet his promise of outsourcing the DNA testing.
>He also had not started to hire international scientists for the
>overburdened centre.
>The state has opened a forensic laboratory on the Gold Coast to ease the
>workload, but scientific police say it could place more of a burden on them.
>Yesterday, there were no security guards seen patrolling the John Tonge
>parking area and the shed and shipping container remained unprotected by
>barriers.
>Forensic scientists at the centre have been threatened not to speak about
>testing problems.
>It is understood the centre's management has warned scientists who leak
>information about problems could be jailed.
>Opposition health spokesman Stuart Copeland said the situation was typical
>of Queensland Health.
>"It shows a complete lack of appreciation for the necessity of maintaining
>evidence once gathered in a safe location and places at risk potential
>prosecutions so it could allow criminals to walk free," Mr Copeland said.
>The lab's shortcomings have caused major problems for the court system.
>In one case, a Brisbane magistrate was told a scientist could not be
>assigned to a drug case until 2007. Queensland Health blamed the delay on a
>worldwide shortage of scientists with the appropriate experience.

I suspect this issue has international considerations.

The integrity of legal evidence must be certifiably maintained
from collection to trial. One form of integrity is access. If
access is possible by anyone who is not certified by law, then it
becomes dubious.

Another form of integrity is damage or alteration. DNA can be
damaged or altered by heat and other types of exposure. Unless
DNA evidence is maintained in a certified manner then it too is
questionable.

In the US, the use of DNA as a prosecution tool has a checkered
history. Erroneous readings or interpretations as well as
fraudulent testimony by laboratory technicians is not uncommon.

Another problem is contamination of DNA material. Also,
DNA may be easily introduced to a crime scene, either
deliberately or incidentally.

Caveat emptor.


> What they aren't telling you about DNA profiles
>and what Special Branch don't want you to know.
>http://www.nutteing2.50megs.com/dnapr.htm
>or nutteingd in a search engine
>
>Valid email nutteing@fastmail.....fm (remove 4 of the 5 dots)
>Ignore any other apparent em address used to post this message -
>it is defunct due to spam.
>
>
>
>


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[Ext User(Paul Nutteing)]

"Strabo" <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote in message
news:bhd1h1pgqfp8qvk0kqhnthj0p591k9nmdm@4ax.com...
> In DNA clues kept in shipping container on Sat, 27 Aug 2005
> 08:54:59 +0100, by Paul Nutteing, we read:
>
> >"Temperature variation does not affect the integrity of the samples for
DNA
> >testing."
> >
> >so why otherwise keep it frozen then ?
> >
>
>http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,16398134%255
E
> >3102,00.html
> >DNA clues kept in shipping container
> >Tuck Thompson and Hedley Thomas
> >27aug05
> >SENSITIVE DNA evidence is being stored in a shipping container and a shed
in
> >a Queensland Health parking lot.
> >The property is generally monitored for security but there is no fence
> >protecting the temporary refrigerated storage facilities at the John
Tonge
> >forensic centre at Coopers Plains, a southern suburb of Brisbane.
> >DNA evidence is vital to hundreds of criminal court cases across the
state.
> >Sources last night said the samples had been in the car park for between
six
> >and 10 weeks. Queensland Health last night admitted the evidence had been
> >shifted after a refrigeration storage unit failed and said it was
> >considering increasing security.
> >The centre's freezer would cost $200,000 to replace, it said in a
statement
> >but did not provide any information about when that might happen.
> >"No damage or loss occurred during the transfer. Temperatures are
constantly
> >monitored with data loggers and physically checked daily," the statement
> >said.
> >"Security measures are currently being examined with a view to
strengthening
> >all physical access points to the campus.
> >"Due to the climate in Queensland, Queensland Health Scientific Services
has
> >instituted an additional but non-essential protocol that involves
freezing
> >exhibits to prevent the growth of mould.
> >"Temperature variation does not affect the integrity of the samples for
DNA
> >testing."
> >Moving the samples to shipping containers was part of the QHSS disaster
> >management plan, the statement said.
> >Magistrates and solicitors have criticised the John Tonge centre over
long
> >delays in testing DNA and drug samples.
> >Earlier this year, a Southport magistrate angrily dismissed charges
against
> >three accused drug offenders because of delays of more than 12 months in
> >processing drug samples.
> >The State Government later announced plans to outsource up to 10,000
> >scientific tests in a bid to clear the backlog at John Tonge.
> >However in June, former health minister Gordon Nuttall admitted he had
> >failed to meet his promise of outsourcing the DNA testing.
> >He also had not started to hire international scientists for the
> >overburdened centre.
> >The state has opened a forensic laboratory on the Gold Coast to ease the
> >workload, but scientific police say it could place more of a burden on
them.
> >Yesterday, there were no security guards seen patrolling the John Tonge
> >parking area and the shed and shipping container remained unprotected by
> >barriers.
> >Forensic scientists at the centre have been threatened not to speak about
> >testing problems.
> >It is understood the centre's management has warned scientists who leak
> >information about problems could be jailed.
> >Opposition health spokesman Stuart Copeland said the situation was
typical
> >of Queensland Health.
> >"It shows a complete lack of appreciation for the necessity of
maintaining
> >evidence once gathered in a safe location and places at risk potential
> >prosecutions so it could allow criminals to walk free," Mr Copeland said.
> >The lab's shortcomings have caused major problems for the court system.
> >In one case, a Brisbane magistrate was told a scientist could not be
> >assigned to a drug case until 2007. Queensland Health blamed the delay on
a
> >worldwide shortage of scientists with the appropriate experience.
>
> I suspect this issue has international considerations.
>
> The integrity of legal evidence must be certifiably maintained
> from collection to trial. One form of integrity is access. If
> access is possible by anyone who is not certified by law, then it
> becomes dubious.
>
> Another form of integrity is damage or alteration. DNA can be
> damaged or altered by heat and other types of exposure. Unless
> DNA evidence is maintained in a certified manner then it too is
> questionable.
>
> In the US, the use of DNA as a prosecution tool has a checkered
> history. Erroneous readings or interpretations as well as
> fraudulent testimony by laboratory technicians is not uncommon.
>
> Another problem is contamination of DNA material. Also,
> DNA may be easily introduced to a crime scene, either
> deliberately or incidentally.
>
> Caveat emptor.
>
>
> > What they aren't telling you about DNA profiles
> >and what Special Branch don't want you to know.
> >http://www.nutteing2.50megs.com/dnapr.htm
> >or nutteingd in a search engine
> >
> >Valid email nutteing@fastmail.....fm (remove 4 of the 5 dots)
> >Ignore any other apparent em address used to post this message -
> >it is defunct due to spam.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
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=----

It is well known that the high molecular weight DNA
fractions like FGA, D18S51 and D2S1338 fail to
amplify after a few years stored at ambient room
humidity and temperature. After about 15 years
they can become forensically useless.

There has been studies concerning DNA frozen and
retested and comparing results but amazingly there
has been no (published anyway) research into ambient
stored historic DNA. Until there is, then nowhere in
the world should historic priofiled DNA be admissible in court.
Eg 20 or 30 yearold Guthrie cards ( blood spotted onto
card at birth and stored un-frozen ). More easily from
male babies so that they can be more easily traced as adults and
blood DNA tested in adulthood and compared to
the Guthrie card blood tested and the two results compared.

What they aren't telling you about DNA profiles
and what Special Branch don't want you to know.
http://www.nutteing2.50megs.com/dnapr.htm
or nutteingd in a search engine

Valid email nutteing@fastmail.....fm (remove 4 of the 5 dots)
Ignore any other apparent em address used to post this message -
it is defunct due to spam.