Early termination fee for deceased person

[Ext User(Horace Wachope_)]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:04:46 GMT, Michael wrote:

> "Justin" <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> news:slrndn4eqs.tma.nospam@debian.dns2go.com...
>> Jack Mitchell wrote on [Wed, 09 Nov 2005 12:01:39 GMT]:
>>> You have three options: transfer of ownership into another name and
> continue
>>> the service & contract. Or disconnect the service and send the phone
> back
>>> (they will give you an address) and they will waive the ETC. The final
>>> option is to have the number deactivated and accept the ETC (and keep
> the
>>> phone), the estate becomes liable for paying the final bill.
>>
>> The phone wasn't recovered from the accident site. Nobody has been able
>> to find it.
>
> Ok then you have 3-1 = 2 choices
>
> Dont want to sound harsh, but a debt is a debt, its not Telstras fault.
>
> Do you expect the opposite, say, that $10000 in their bank account is now
> forfeited to the bank because the person is dead?
>
> Assets and liabilities continue after debt

Death.

[Ext User(Horace Wachope_)]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:05:54 GMT, Michael wrote:

> "will kemp" <will@xxxx.swaggie.net> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.11.11.07.50.28.191276@xxxx.swaggie.n et...
>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 02:37:17 +0000, DaN wrote:
>>
>>> If I were you id just ignore Telstra I dont see how they plan to take
> your
>>> step father to court anyway.
>>
>> They don't. They take his estate to court - which often means next of kin
>> etc.
>
> Telstra dont take people to court, their debt collectors or debt factorers
> do.
>
> I very much doubt they will take anyone to court over ANY ETC on a single
> service. assuming every previous bill was paid

On a more practical level, his executor has (or will have) certain legal
responsibilties in relation to the estate. The executor cannot simply
ignore the Telstra debt because he or she thinks it is unfair.

If Telstra will not waive the debt (and I don't know receptive Telstra is
to such requests), the debt will have to be paid (assuming there is
sufficient money in the estate).

[Ext User(Martin Taylor)]

will said....

> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 02:37:17 +0000, DaN wrote:
>
>> If I were you id just ignore Telstra I dont see how they plan to take
>> your step father to court anyway.
>
> They don't. They take his estate to court - which often means next of kin
> etc.

What does the next of kin have to do with the step father's "debt"?

[Ext User(Rod Out Back)]

"Martin Taylor" <mjpt_57@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4376523e.450bd9b3.bm015@yahoo.com.au...
> will said....
>
>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 02:37:17 +0000, DaN wrote:
>>
>>> If I were you id just ignore Telstra I dont see how they plan to take
>>> your step father to court anyway.
>>
>> They don't. They take his estate to court - which often means next of kin
>> etc.
>
> What does the next of kin have to do with the step father's "debt"?
>

Executors of his estate, perhaps???

Cheers,

Rod.......Out Back

[Ext User(Martin Taylor)]

Rod Out Back wrote:

>> What does the next of kin have to do with the step father's "debt"?
>>
>
> Executors of his estate, perhaps???

Yep, probably. Maybe I got it wrong, but it sounded like the OP of that
line regarding the deceased relatives suggested that they may get stuck
with the bill, not the estate.

I have heard of stories, via shows like ACA, of course, where companies
have tried it on with deceased people's relatives when chasing debt,
fines, etc..

[Ext User(will kemp)]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:07:46 +1100, Martin Taylor wrote:

> Yep, probably. Maybe I got it wrong, but it sounded like the OP of that
> line regarding the deceased relatives suggested that they may get stuck
> with the bill, not the estate.

That would depend if you've made a will or not. If you haven't made a
will, your next of kin will inherit anything you may have when you die -
including your debts.

Will

[Ext User(Simon VK3XEM)]

will kemp wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:07:46 +1100, Martin Taylor wrote:
>
>>Yep, probably. Maybe I got it wrong, but it sounded like the OP of that
>>line regarding the deceased relatives suggested that they may get stuck
>>with the bill, not the estate.
>
> That would depend if you've made a will or not. If you haven't made a
> will, your next of kin will inherit anything you may have when you die -
> including your debts.
>
> Will

I thought the Government took most of it if you didn't leave a will! :)



--
The views I present are my own and NOT of any organisation I belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
http://www.aca.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452

Any information regarding Greg can be sent to intruder@vk3xem.net

[Ext User(Graeme Willox)]

will kemp wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:07:46 +1100, Martin Taylor wrote:
>
>
>>Yep, probably. Maybe I got it wrong, but it sounded like the OP of that
>>line regarding the deceased relatives suggested that they may get stuck
>>with the bill, not the estate.
>
>
> That would depend if you've made a will or not. If you haven't made a
> will, your next of kin will inherit anything you may have when you die -
> including your debts.
>
> Will
>

Since when have you been able to "inherit" someone's debts? In some
contracts, say for a joint loan by two people, there are clauses which
state that if one of the borrowers dies, the loan becomes a debt of the
surviving party. In the original posters case, the phone contract could
be in joint names. You might also inherit something which has a bill of
sale or mortgage held over it, in which case the only way you might get
to keep it is to take over or refinance the debt in your name.

You can't, just by virtue of being someone's next of kin, inherit
someone's debts.

[Ext User(Michael)]

"Horace Wachope_" <horacewachope@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1uelafragvr97.vdz8x1tbgh7x.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:04:46 GMT, Michael wrote:
>
> > "Justin" <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> > news:slrndn4eqs.tma.nospam@debian.dns2go.com...
> >> Jack Mitchell wrote on [Wed, 09 Nov 2005 12:01:39 GMT]:
> >>> You have three options: transfer of ownership into another name and
> > continue
> >>> the service & contract. Or disconnect the service and send the phone
> > back
> >>> (they will give you an address) and they will waive the ETC. The final
> >>> option is to have the number deactivated and accept the ETC (and keep
> > the
> >>> phone), the estate becomes liable for paying the final bill.
> >>
> >> The phone wasn't recovered from the accident site. Nobody has been able
> >> to find it.
> >
> > Ok then you have 3-1 = 2 choices
> >
> > Dont want to sound harsh, but a debt is a debt, its not Telstras fault.
> >
> > Do you expect the opposite, say, that $10000 in their bank account is
now
> > forfeited to the bank because the person is dead?
> >
> > Assets and liabilities continue after debt
>
> Death.

Sorry, brain fart there

[Ext User(Michael)]

"Horace Wachope_" <horacewachope@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1d6eiq113urm0$.1wxmg2ehfgilz$.dlg@40tude.net. ..
> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:05:54 GMT, Michael wrote:
>
> > "will kemp" <will@xxxx.swaggie.net> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2005.11.11.07.50.28.191276@xxxx.swaggie.n et...
> >> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 02:37:17 +0000, DaN wrote:
> >>
> >>> If I were you id just ignore Telstra I dont see how they plan to take
> > your
> >>> step father to court anyway.
> >>
> >> They don't. They take his estate to court - which often means next of
kin
> >> etc.
> >
> > Telstra dont take people to court, their debt collectors or debt
factorers
> > do.
> >
> > I very much doubt they will take anyone to court over ANY ETC on a
single
> > service. assuming every previous bill was paid
>
> On a more practical level, his executor has (or will have) certain legal
> responsibilties in relation to the estate. The executor cannot simply
> ignore the Telstra debt because he or she thinks it is unfair.

correct

>
> If Telstra will not waive the debt (and I don't know receptive Telstra is
> to such requests), the debt will have to be paid (assuming there is
> sufficient money in the estate).

The debt will not be waived, it will go to a debt collector, then a debt
factorer.

[Ext User(Michael)]

"Graeme Willox" <graemewillox@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:4377029a$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> will kemp wrote:
> > On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:07:46 +1100, Martin Taylor wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Yep, probably. Maybe I got it wrong, but it sounded like the OP of that
> >>line regarding the deceased relatives suggested that they may get stuck
> >>with the bill, not the estate.
> >
> >
> > That would depend if you've made a will or not. If you haven't made a
> > will, your next of kin will inherit anything you may have when you die -
> > including your debts.
> >
> > Will
> >
>
> Since when have you been able to "inherit" someone's debts? In some

The estate gets the debt as well as the assets

> surviving party. In the original posters case, the phone contract could
> be in joint names. You might also inherit something which has a bill of

Mobile phone contracts are not in joint names

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

Michael <michael@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Horace Wachope_" <horacewachope@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1uelafragvr97.vdz8x1tbgh7x.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:04:46 GMT, Michael wrote:
>>
>>> "Justin" <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote in message
>>> news:slrndn4eqs.tma.nospam@debian.dns2go.com...
>>>> Jack Mitchell wrote on [Wed, 09 Nov 2005 12:01:39 GMT]:
>>>>> You have three options: transfer of ownership into another name
>>>>> and continue the service & contract. Or disconnect the service
>>>>> and send the phone back (they will give you an address) and they
>>>>> will waive the ETC. The final option is to have the number
>>>>> deactivated and accept the ETC (and keep the phone), the estate
>>>>> becomes liable for paying the final bill.
>>>>
>>>> The phone wasn't recovered from the accident site. Nobody has been
>>>> able to find it.
>>>
>>> Ok then you have 3-1 = 2 choices
>>>
>>> Dont want to sound harsh, but a debt is a debt, its not Telstras
>>> fault.
>>>
>>> Do you expect the opposite, say, that $10000 in their bank account
>>> is now forfeited to the bank because the person is dead?
>>>
>>> Assets and liabilities continue after debt
>>
>> Death.
>
> Sorry, brain fart there

Not a shred of evidence of any brain at all.

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

will kemp <will@xxxx.swaggie.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:07:46 +1100, Martin Taylor wrote:
>
>> Yep, probably. Maybe I got it wrong, but it sounded like the OP of
>> that line regarding the deceased relatives suggested that they may
>> get stuck with the bill, not the estate.
>
> That would depend if you've made a will or not. If you haven't made a
> will, your next of kin will inherit anything you may have when you
> die - including your debts.

Wrong, as always.

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

Simon VK3XEM <usenet@vk3xem.net> wrote:
> will kemp wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:07:46 +1100, Martin Taylor wrote:
>>
>>> Yep, probably. Maybe I got it wrong, but it sounded like the OP of
>>> that line regarding the deceased relatives suggested that they may
>>> get stuck with the bill, not the estate.
>>
>> That would depend if you've made a will or not. If you haven't made a
>> will, your next of kin will inherit anything you may have when you
>> die - including your debts.
>>
>> Will
>
> I thought the Government took most of it if you didn't leave a will! :)

Nope.

[Ext User(Horace Wachope_)]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 09:49:51 GMT, Michael wrote:

> "Horace Wachope_" <horacewachope@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1d6eiq113urm0$.1wxmg2ehfgilz$.dlg@40tude.net. ..
>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:05:54 GMT, Michael wrote:
>>
>>> "will kemp" <will@xxxx.swaggie.net> wrote in message
>>> news:pan.2005.11.11.07.50.28.191276@xxxx.swaggie.n et...
>>>> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 02:37:17 +0000, DaN wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If I were you id just ignore Telstra I dont see how they plan to take
>>> your
>>>>> step father to court anyway.
>>>>
>>>> They don't. They take his estate to court - which often means next of
> kin
>>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Telstra dont take people to court, their debt collectors or debt
> factorers
>>> do.
>>>
>>> I very much doubt they will take anyone to court over ANY ETC on a
> single
>>> service. assuming every previous bill was paid
>>
>> On a more practical level, his executor has (or will have) certain legal
>> responsibilties in relation to the estate. The executor cannot simply
>> ignore the Telstra debt because he or she thinks it is unfair.
>
> correct

I'm well aware of that.

>> If Telstra will not waive the debt (and I don't know receptive Telstra is
>> to such requests), the debt will have to be paid (assuming there is
>> sufficient money in the estate).
>
> The debt will not be waived, it will go to a debt collector, then a debt
> factorer.

First of all, you don't know that it will not be waived. Telstra isn't
obligated to waive it, but they may do so as a gesture of good will. In
any event, it can't hurt to try.

If it gets to the stage of debt factorers, it's unlikely they'll be getting
their money. There aren't too many who would be willing to sue out a
Supreme Court writ against an executor over a mobile telephone bill.

Of course, any honest executor would ensure that such debts are paid before
the residue of the estate is distributed to the wife/kiddies/grandkiddies
and other beneficiaries.

[Ext User(Michael)]

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3tojq6Ft9fl9U1@individual.net...
> Michael <michael@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > "Horace Wachope_" <horacewachope@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1uelafragvr97.vdz8x1tbgh7x.dlg@40tude.net...
> >> On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:04:46 GMT, Michael wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Justin" <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:slrndn4eqs.tma.nospam@debian.dns2go.com...
> >>>> Jack Mitchell wrote on [Wed, 09 Nov 2005 12:01:39 GMT]:
> >>>>> You have three options: transfer of ownership into another name
> >>>>> and continue the service & contract. Or disconnect the service
> >>>>> and send the phone back (they will give you an address) and they
> >>>>> will waive the ETC. The final option is to have the number
> >>>>> deactivated and accept the ETC (and keep the phone), the estate
> >>>>> becomes liable for paying the final bill.
> >>>>
> >>>> The phone wasn't recovered from the accident site. Nobody has been
> >>>> able to find it.
> >>>
> >>> Ok then you have 3-1 = 2 choices
> >>>
> >>> Dont want to sound harsh, but a debt is a debt, its not Telstras
> >>> fault.
> >>>
> >>> Do you expect the opposite, say, that $10000 in their bank account
> >>> is now forfeited to the bank because the person is dead?
> >>>
> >>> Assets and liabilities continue after debt
> >>
> >> Death.
> >
> > Sorry, brain fart there
>
> Not a shred of evidence of any brain at all.

Liar.
>
>

[Ext User(Michael)]

> > The debt will not be waived, it will go to a debt collector, then a debt
> > factorer.
>
> First of all, you don't know that it will not be waived. Telstra isn't
> obligated to waive it, but they may do so as a gesture of good will. In
> any event, it can't hurt to try.

Then again, the sky could fall onto your head . . .

> If it gets to the stage of debt factorers, it's unlikely they'll be
getting
> their money. There aren't too many who would be willing to sue out a
> Supreme Court writ against an executor over a mobile telephone bill.

They dont have to start with the Supreme Court

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

Michael <michael@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Michael <michael@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Horace Wachope <horacewachope@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Michael wrote
>>>>> Justin <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote
>>>>>> Jack Mitchell wrote

>>>>>>> You have three options: transfer of ownership into another name
>>>>>>> and continue the service & contract. Or disconnect the service
>>>>>>> and send the phone back (they will give you an address) and they
>>>>>>> will waive the ETC. The final option is to have the number
>>>>>>> deactivated and accept the ETC (and keep the phone), the estate
>>>>>>> becomes liable for paying the final bill.

>>>>>> The phone wasn't recovered from the accident
>>>>>> site. Nobody has been able to find it.

>>>>> Ok then you have 3-1 = 2 choices

>>>>> Dont want to sound harsh, but a debt is a debt, its not Telstras fault.

>>>>> Do you expect the opposite, say, that $10000 in their bank account
>>>>> is now forfeited to the bank because the person is dead?

>>>>> Assets and liabilities continue after debt

>>>> Death.

>>> Sorry, brain fart there

>> Not a shred of evidence of any brain at all.

> Liar.

Fact.

[Ext User(Horace Wachope_)]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 08:26:46 GMT, Michael wrote:

>>> The debt will not be waived, it will go to a debt collector, then a debt
>>> factorer.
>>
>> First of all, you don't know that it will not be waived. Telstra isn't
>> obligated to waive it, but they may do so as a gesture of good will. In
>> any event, it can't hurt to try.
>
> Then again, the sky could fall onto your head . . .
>
>> If it gets to the stage of debt factorers, it's unlikely they'll be
> getting
>> their money. There aren't too many who would be willing to sue out a
>> Supreme Court writ against an executor over a mobile telephone bill.
>
> They dont have to start with the Supreme Court

LOL. Are you suggesting that a court other than Supreme Court can reopen
things after the proceeds of the estate have been distributed?

What a moron.

[Ext User(Craig Ian Dewick)]

DaN <news@danscomp.net> writes:

>If I were you id just ignore Telstra I dont see how they plan to take your
>step father to court anyway.

They won't - they'll take action against whoever is the power of attorney or
go after immediate relatives.

That's why it's important to to get someone at Telstra to manually over-ride
the automatic billing system that's spitting out the breach of contract
notice.

Craig.
--
Craig Dewick (craig@poison.lios.apana.org.au). http://lios.apana.org.au/~craig
APANA Sydney Deputy Regional Co-ordinator. Operator of Jedi (APANA Sydney POP)
Always striving for a secure long-term future in an insecure short-term world
Have you exported a crypto system today? Do your bit to undermine the NSA.