Nokia GSM/CDMA phones

[Ext User(Zak Nickotel)]

I saw an ad for a Nokia phone that is CDMA and GSM. How does this work,
account-wise? Do you have to have a GSM and a CDMA account (2 phone
numbers), or the one account for access to both networks? And how does
it function? Does it default to one and switch to the other auto if one
network is not present?

[Ext User(mark jb)]

>I saw an ad for a Nokia phone that is CDMA and GSM. How does this work,
> account-wise? Do you have to have a GSM and a CDMA account (2 phone
> numbers), or the one account for access to both networks? And how does
> it function? Does it default to one and switch to the other auto if one
> network is not present?

What model?
Are you sure it's not 3G? WCDMA (3G) is completely different to CDMA.
Basically all 3G phones fallback to GSM if out of 3G range.

A combined CDMA/GSM Nokia would be rather expensive and bulky.

-mark

[Ext User(NOYFB)]

Motorola does on ethat has both. Availablevia Telstra & Optus

"mark jb" <nukeleer at internode dot on dot net> wrote in message
news:43706a34@duster.adelaide.on.net...
> >I saw an ad for a Nokia phone that is CDMA and GSM. How does this work,
>> account-wise? Do you have to have a GSM and a CDMA account (2 phone
>> numbers), or the one account for access to both networks? And how does
>> it function? Does it default to one and switch to the other auto if one
>> network is not present?
>
> What model?
> Are you sure it's not 3G? WCDMA (3G) is completely different to CDMA.
> Basically all 3G phones fallback to GSM if out of 3G range.
>
> A combined CDMA/GSM Nokia would be rather expensive and bulky.
>
> -mark
>

[Ext User(Graeme Willox)]

mark jb wrote:
>>I saw an ad for a Nokia phone that is CDMA and GSM. How does this work,
>>account-wise? Do you have to have a GSM and a CDMA account (2 phone
>>numbers), or the one account for access to both networks? And how does
>>it function? Does it default to one and switch to the other auto if one
>>network is not present?
>
>
> What model?
> Are you sure it's not 3G? WCDMA (3G) is completely different to CDMA.
> Basically all 3G phones fallback to GSM if out of 3G range.
>
> A combined CDMA/GSM Nokia would be rather expensive and bulky.
>
> -mark
>
>

I haven't seen a Nokia model. Motorola make the A840 which is GSM and
CDMA. It's more like 2 phones inside the one case from what I've been
told. You need to switch the phone off and back on to change modes.
You also need two phone accounts - one GSM and one CDMA.

[Ext User(kubalister)]

Graeme Willox wrote:
> mark jb wrote:
>
>>> I saw an ad for a Nokia phone that is CDMA and GSM. How does this work,
>>> account-wise? Do you have to have a GSM and a CDMA account (2 phone
>>> numbers), or the one account for access to both networks? And how does
>>> it function? Does it default to one and switch to the other auto if one
>>> network is not present?
>>
>>
>>
>> What model?
>> Are you sure it's not 3G? WCDMA (3G) is completely different to CDMA.
>> Basically all 3G phones fallback to GSM if out of 3G range.
>>
>> A combined CDMA/GSM Nokia would be rather expensive and bulky.
>>
>> -mark
>>
>
> I haven't seen a Nokia model. Motorola make the A840 which is GSM and
> CDMA. It's more like 2 phones inside the one case from what I've been
> told. You need to switch the phone off and back on to change modes. You
> also need two phone accounts - one GSM and one CDMA.

You don't need 2 accounts, only the one 'special' account to provide the
dual network functionality:
http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/media/release.cfm?ObjectID=35476

[Ext User(Graeme Willox)]

kubalister wrote:
> Graeme Willox wrote:
>
>> mark jb wrote:
>>
>>>> I saw an ad for a Nokia phone that is CDMA and GSM. How does this work,
>>>> account-wise? Do you have to have a GSM and a CDMA account (2 phone
>>>> numbers), or the one account for access to both networks? And how does
>>>> it function? Does it default to one and switch to the other auto if one
>>>> network is not present?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What model?
>>> Are you sure it's not 3G? WCDMA (3G) is completely different to CDMA.
>>> Basically all 3G phones fallback to GSM if out of 3G range.
>>>
>>> A combined CDMA/GSM Nokia would be rather expensive and bulky.
>>>
>>> -mark
>>>
>>
>> I haven't seen a Nokia model. Motorola make the A840 which is GSM and
>> CDMA. It's more like 2 phones inside the one case from what I've been
>> told. You need to switch the phone off and back on to change modes.
>> You also need two phone accounts - one GSM and one CDMA.
>
>
> You don't need 2 accounts, only the one 'special' account to provide the
> dual network functionality:
> http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/media/release.cfm?ObjectID=35476

Hmm. No disputing what that says. In my own defence, I can only say
that I was just repeating what one of the Telstra droids from 125 111
told me.

[Ext User(Dangermouse)]

You don't need to turn off the a840 to switch networks.
See:
http://www.imobile.com.au/PhoneReviews/default.asp?ID=reviewsoct0501

[Ext User(will kemp)]

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 08:43:53 +1100, kubalister wrote:

> You don't need 2 accounts, only the one 'special' account to provide the
> dual network functionality:
> http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/media/release.cfm?ObjectID=35476

Yeah, the usual Telstra stupidity...

The new technology automatically directs voice calls from the CDMA to
GSM service where the CDMA service is busy, switched off, out of range
or unanswered. Where the GSM service is unavailable, calls to the GSM
service will be diverted to a shared Telstra MessageBank.

They've got their logic back to front there! It diverts to GSM when CDMA
is out of range (and then to messagebank if GSM is out of range). That's
smart! How often is that going to be the case? It would make much more
sense to start on GSM and then divert to CDMA if GSM was out of range and
then go to messagebank. Bloody typical!

Will

[Ext User(Rob Speed)]

"will kemp" <will@xxxx.swaggie.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.10.08.25.09.126156@xxxx.swaggie.n et...
> On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 08:43:53 +1100, kubalister wrote:
>
>> You don't need 2 accounts, only the one 'special' account to provide the
>> dual network functionality:
>> http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/media/release.cfm?ObjectID=35476
>
> Yeah, the usual Telstra stupidity...
>
> The new technology automatically directs voice calls from the CDMA to
> GSM service where the CDMA service is busy, switched off, out of range
> or unanswered. Where the GSM service is unavailable, calls to the GSM
> service will be diverted to a shared Telstra MessageBank.
>
> They've got their logic back to front there! It diverts to GSM when CDMA
> is out of range (and then to messagebank if GSM is out of range). That's
> smart! How often is that going to be the case? It would make much more
> sense to start on GSM and then divert to CDMA if GSM was out of range and
> then go to messagebank. Bloody typical!

Assuming CDMA has "better coverage" it means that most of the time a call
will go straight through, as opposed to the A party hearing silence for 8
seconds while the system tries to locate the phone via GSM then via CDMA.

I'd hardly call it "new technology" though, just sounds like basic call
forwarding.

[Ext User(will kemp)]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 23:13:11 +0000, Rob Speed wrote:

>> The new technology automatically directs voice calls from the CDMA to
>> GSM service where the CDMA service is busy, switched off, out of range
>> or unanswered. Where the GSM service is unavailable, calls to the GSM
>> service will be diverted to a shared Telstra MessageBank.
>>
>> They've got their logic back to front there! It diverts to GSM when CDMA
>> is out of range (and then to messagebank if GSM is out of range). That's
>> smart! How often is that going to be the case? It would make much more
>> sense to start on GSM and then divert to CDMA if GSM was out of range and
>> then go to messagebank. Bloody typical!
>
> Assuming CDMA has "better coverage" it means that most of the time a call
> will go straight through, as opposed to the A party hearing silence for 8
> seconds while the system tries to locate the phone via GSM then via CDMA.

Yeah, i guess that's true. However, in my experience, the main issues with
CDMA in an area where you've got GSM coverage are that the "quality" of
the GSM coverage is often superior to the CDMA coverage - that certainly
seems to be true in cities to some extent - and that GSM has more useful
features than CDMA, so many people would rather use it if it's available.
I certainly would.

But with this sytem it's hardly ever likely to use GSM - as there's hardly
anywhere (nowhere???) where there's GSM coverage but not some level of
CDMA coverage - which makes having the GSM part completely superfluous and
just extra weight to carry round that you're never going to be able to use.

I suspect it's got more to do with Telstra's policy of trying to push as
many people onto CDMA as possible and nothing at all to do with the
quality of the service.

Will

[Ext User(Michael)]

"kubalister" <kubalister@no.spam.here> wrote in message
news:43711c14$0$35480$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
> Graeme Willox wrote:
> > mark jb wrote:
> >
> >>> I saw an ad for a Nokia phone that is CDMA and GSM. How does this
work,
> >>> account-wise? Do you have to have a GSM and a CDMA account (2 phone
> >>> numbers), or the one account for access to both networks? And how does
> >>> it function? Does it default to one and switch to the other auto if
one
> >>> network is not present?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What model?
> >> Are you sure it's not 3G? WCDMA (3G) is completely different to CDMA.
> >> Basically all 3G phones fallback to GSM if out of 3G range.
> >>
> >> A combined CDMA/GSM Nokia would be rather expensive and bulky.
> >>
> >> -mark
> >>
> >
> > I haven't seen a Nokia model. Motorola make the A840 which is GSM and
> > CDMA. It's more like 2 phones inside the one case from what I've been
> > told. You need to switch the phone off and back on to change modes. You
> > also need two phone accounts - one GSM and one CDMA.
>
> You don't need 2 accounts, only the one 'special' account to provide the
> dual network functionality:
> http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/media/release.cfm?ObjectID=35476

He is correct, you DO have two service numbers.

[Ext User(Michael)]

>
> Assuming CDMA has "better coverage" it means that most of the time a call
> will go straight through, as opposed to the A party hearing silence for 8
> seconds while the system tries to locate the phone via GSM then via CDMA.
>
> I'd hardly call it "new technology" though, just sounds like basic call
> forwarding.

Its call redirection, there is no diversion involved.

>
>

[Ext User(Michael)]

"will kemp" <will@xxxx.swaggie.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.11.10.08.25.09.126156@xxxx.swaggie.n et...
> On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 08:43:53 +1100, kubalister wrote:
>
> > You don't need 2 accounts, only the one 'special' account to provide the
> > dual network functionality:
> > http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/media/release.cfm?ObjectID=35476
>
> Yeah, the usual Telstra stupidity...
>
> The new technology automatically directs voice calls from the CDMA to
> GSM service where the CDMA service is busy, switched off, out of range
> or unanswered. Where the GSM service is unavailable, calls to the GSM
> service will be diverted to a shared Telstra MessageBank.
>
> They've got their logic back to front there! It diverts to GSM when CDMA
> is out of range (and then to messagebank if GSM is out of range). That's
> smart! How often is that going to be the case? It would make much more
> sense to start on GSM and then divert to CDMA if GSM was out of range and
> then go to messagebank. Bloody typical!

No, you just havent thought about it.
It redirects from CDMA to GSM, because the GSM is the common denominator for
the roaming overseas.
All calls appear to originate from the GSM service even when calling from
the CDMA service.
The exception is CDMA MO SMS

This product is NOT designed to give better coverage in Australia, the
purpose is for easier roaming.
>
> Will
>

[Ext User(Michael)]

> I suspect it's got more to do with Telstra's policy of trying to push as
> many people onto CDMA as possible and nothing at all to do with the
> quality of the service.



Its a worldwide calling technology, not a Telstra solution

Think bigger, Will.

Handset manufacturers dont design phones just for Telstra

[Ext User(will kemp)]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:10:10 +0000, Michael wrote:

> No, you just havent thought about it.
> It redirects from CDMA to GSM, because the GSM is the common denominator for
> the roaming overseas.
> All calls appear to originate from the GSM service even when calling from
> the CDMA service.
> The exception is CDMA MO SMS
>
> This product is NOT designed to give better coverage in Australia, the
> purpose is for easier roaming.

Ok, well that does make a certain amount of sense, i suppose. But it would
be considerably smarter if you could choose which way it worked - then it
might make sense having a dual phone, as only a tiny minority of users
roam overseas.

Will

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

will kemp <will@xxxx.swaggie.net> wrote:
> Rob Speed wrote

That wasnt, me, just that fuckwit again.

>>> The new technology automatically directs voice calls from the CDMA
>>> to GSM service where the CDMA service is busy, switched off, out
>>> of range or unanswered. Where the GSM service is unavailable,
>>> calls to the GSM service will be diverted to a shared Telstra
>>> MessageBank.
>>>
>>> They've got their logic back to front there! It diverts to GSM when
>>> CDMA is out of range (and then to messagebank if GSM is out of
>>> range). That's smart! How often is that going to be the case? It
>>> would make much more sense to start on GSM and then divert to CDMA
>>> if GSM was out of range and then go to messagebank. Bloody typical!
>>
>> Assuming CDMA has "better coverage" it means that most of the time a
>> call will go straight through, as opposed to the A party hearing
>> silence for 8 seconds while the system tries to locate the phone via
>> GSM then via CDMA.

> Yeah, i guess that's true. However, in my experience, the main issues
> with CDMA in an area where you've got GSM coverage are that the
> "quality" of the GSM coverage is often superior to the CDMA coverage
> - that certainly seems to be true in cities to some extent - and that
> GSM has more useful features than CDMA, so many people would rather
> use it if it's available. I certainly would.

> But with this sytem it's hardly ever likely to use GSM -
> as there's hardly anywhere (nowhere???) where there's
> GSM coverage but not some level of CDMA coverage

That is just plain wrong with coverage in the capital citys.

There's plenty of places with good GSM coverage and fuck all
CDMA coverage, particularly inside buildings and train tunnels etc.

> - which makes having the GSM part completely superfluous and just
> extra weight to carry round that you're never going to be able to use.

That is just plain wrong. Another example where it is handy
is overseas where GSM is much easier to do outside the
country, so if you go overseas much, it can be quite convenient.

> I suspect it's got more to do with Telstra's policy of trying
> to push as many people onto CDMA as possible and
> nothing at all to do with the quality of the service.

Mindless conspiracy theory.

Its likely much more to do with not having to bother with
complete coverage with CDMA in buildings etc in the capital citys.

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

will kemp <will@xxxx.swaggie.net> wrote
> Michael wrote

>> No, you just havent thought about it.
>> It redirects from CDMA to GSM, because the GSM is the common
>> denominator for the roaming overseas.
>> All calls appear to originate from the GSM service even when calling
>> from the CDMA service.
>> The exception is CDMA MO SMS
>>
>> This product is NOT designed to give better coverage in Australia,
>> the purpose is for easier roaming.
>
> Ok, well that does make a certain amount of sense, i suppose. But it
> would be considerably smarter if you could choose which way it worked

Sure, but that might well be harder to implement.

> - then it might make sense having a dual phone,
> as only a tiny minority of users roam overseas.

Its clearly only aimed at a subset of their customers, stupid.

The number who need CDMA for decent rural coverage
and need GSM for the best capital city performance and
who find that GSM for out of the country handy isnt trivial.

It would have been even more stupid for telstra
to ignore that handset when it became available.

[Ext User(Graeme Willox)]

Rod Speed wrote:

>
> Mindless conspiracy theory.
>
> Its likely much more to do with not having to bother with
> complete coverage with CDMA in buildings etc in the capital citys.
>
>

It's a shame such handsets weren't around when they built CDMA in
Australia. They could literally have built GSM in the city and CDMA in
the country. That could've saved them quite a bit in hardware costs.

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

Graeme Willox <graemewillox@tpg.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote:

>> Mindless conspiracy theory.

>> Its likely much more to do with not having to bother with
>> complete coverage with CDMA in buildings etc in the capital citys.

> It's a shame such handsets weren't around when they built CDMA in
> Australia. They could literally have built GSM in the city and CDMA
> in the country. That could've saved them quite a bit in hardware costs.

Dunno, there were already plenty of GSM bases in the
country by the time telstra pulled cdma out of the hat in
an election campaign when the bush was putting the boot
into the pollys about the closing of the AMPS system.

Even with that handset, its still pretty awkward needing two separate
accounts with the phone having to be set in one mode or the other.

[Ext User(Dogfart)]

On Wed, 09 Nov 2005, at 08:43:53 [GMT +1100] (08:43:53 Wednesday, 9 November
2005 where I live) "kubalister" wrote:

> You don't need 2 accounts, only the one 'special' account to provide the
> dual network functionality:
> http://www.telstra.com.au/abouttelstra/media/release.cfm?ObjectID=35476

"File Not Found" error.