Is a STB / Recorder unit avail yet?

[Ext User(Bob)]

I really don't want to buy a STB and a recorder (DVD with HDD) if I could
get one box to do both. Is there such a beast available? It it a recommended
buy? If I can wait a little longer will I have more choice?

Bob from Bull Creek

[Ext User(Gregory Kleverlaan)]

"Bob" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:43847c34$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
>I really don't want to buy a STB and a recorder (DVD with HDD) if I could
>get one box to do both. Is there such a beast available? It it a
>recommended buy? If I can wait a little longer will I have more choice?
>
> Bob from Bull Creek

The Short answer as has been mentioned hundreds of times before.

STB WITH DVD RECORDER - NO Intergrated digital tuner
STB WITH HARD DISK - YES intergrated digital tuner
STB with dvd rec and hdd - NO

[Ext User(deFragged)]

Gregory Kleverlaan wrote:
> "Bob" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:43847c34$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
>>I really don't want to buy a STB and a recorder (DVD with HDD) if I could
>>get one box to do both. Is there such a beast available? It it a
>>recommended buy? If I can wait a little longer will I have more choice?
>>
>>Bob from Bull Creek
>
>
> The Short answer as has been mentioned hundreds of times before.
>
> STB WITH DVD RECORDER - NO Intergrated digital tuner
> STB WITH HARD DISK - YES intergrated digital tuner
> STB with dvd rec and hdd - NO
>
>
Yep. unlikely to see them (if at all) until the MPAA etc get their DRM /
Broadcast flag etc in place.

[Ext User(Justin)]

"deFragged" <nospam@thank.u> wrote in message
news:4384ea91$0$24595$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>>
> Yep. unlikely to see them (if at all) until the MPAA etc get their DRM /
> Broadcast flag etc in place.

There's at least one available in Japan (Hitachi DV-DH1000W). It has dual
high def tuners, 2 x 500GB hard drives & a DVD burner (which burns at low
def - as there aren't high def burners yet).
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122307,00.asp

There are a number of media centre PC's that combine all of this technology
as well, & their cases are starting to catch up with the lounge room (style
& less fan noise). Being modular, you can move with the times as new
technology comes along (larger/more drives, faster DVD burners,
different/more tuners). A number of brands are covered here:
http://www.icetv.com.au/products.php

Justin

[Ext User(deFragged)]

Justin wrote:

> "deFragged" <nospam@thank.u> wrote in message
> news:4384ea91$0$24595$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
>>Yep. unlikely to see them (if at all) until the MPAA etc get their DRM /
>>Broadcast flag etc in place.
>
>
> There's at least one available in Japan (Hitachi DV-DH1000W). It has dual
> high def tuners, 2 x 500GB hard drives & a DVD burner (which burns at low
> def - as there aren't high def burners yet).
> http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122307,00.asp
>
> There are a number of media centre PC's that combine all of this technology
> as well, & their cases are starting to catch up with the lounge room (style
> & less fan noise). Being modular, you can move with the times as new
> technology comes along (larger/more drives, faster DVD burners,
> different/more tuners). A number of brands are covered here:
> http://www.icetv.com.au/products.php
>
> Justin
>
>
Aren't most of the media centre PCs fitted with analog tuners?

[Ext User(Justin)]

"deFragged" <nospam@thank.u> wrote in message
news:4384f630$0$21953$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...

> Aren't most of the media centre PCs fitted with analog tuners?

When they first started appearing, yes, but not these days. Windows MCE now
supports digital tuners. Have a look at that link I posted - you can go from
there to the specific manufacturers. Dual DVB-T tuners is the most common
set up.

Justin

[Ext User(HaZ)]

Why does evryone think that the MPAA has somethintg to do with the lack of
dvd recorders with digital tuners? Has that stopped digital tv tuner cards
for PC's? It a simple case of its not worth it. You cant fit enough on a dvd
at any sort of decent quality to make it worth it. Thats why we have pvr's!!
Im sure there are a few people about who liek the idea of a dvd recorder
with a digital tuner but the realitty is there jsut wouldnt be a huge call
for them. If you want to archive sd quality stuff without analogue
conversion just get a DTV card your pc.

haZ
"deFragged" <nospam@thank.u> wrote in message
news:4384ea91$0$24595$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> Gregory Kleverlaan wrote:
>> "Bob" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:43847c34$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
>>
>>>I really don't want to buy a STB and a recorder (DVD with HDD) if I could
>>>get one box to do both. Is there such a beast available? It it a
>>>recommended buy? If I can wait a little longer will I have more choice?
>>>
>>>Bob from Bull Creek
>>
>>
>> The Short answer as has been mentioned hundreds of times before.
>>
>> STB WITH DVD RECORDER - NO Intergrated digital tuner
>> STB WITH HARD DISK - YES intergrated digital tuner
>> STB with dvd rec and hdd - NO
> Yep. unlikely to see them (if at all) until the MPAA etc get their DRM /
> Broadcast flag etc in place.

[Ext User(Kevin Hendrikssen)]

"HaZ" <haz_ng@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4385a002_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
> Why does evryone think that the MPAA has somethintg to do with the lack
> of dvd recorders with digital tuners? Has that stopped digital tv tuner
> cards for PC's? It a simple case of its not worth it. You cant fit enough
> on a dvd at any sort of decent quality to make it worth it. Thats why we
> have pvr's!! Im sure there are a few people about who liek the idea of a
> dvd recorder with a digital tuner but the realitty is there jsut wouldnt
> be a huge call for them. If you want to archive sd quality stuff without
> analogue conversion just get a DTV card your pc.

The UK has them so there's no reason why they can't offer AU models.

SONY RDRHX710 DVD recorder with 160Gb Freeview hard disk drive
SONY RDRGX500 Multiregion Dvd Recorder with Freeview (Multiregion)

Goodmans GDVDR305DVBT DVD Recorder with Freeview

JVC DRM150 FREEVIEW DVD Recorder

....just to name a few

[Ext User(Justin)]

"HaZ" <haz_ng@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4385a002_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
> Why does evryone think that the MPAA has somethintg to do with the lack
> of dvd recorders with digital tuners?

Not everyone.

[Ext User(Justin)]

"HaZ" <haz_ng@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4385a002_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
> You cant fit enough on a dvd at any sort of decent quality to make it
> worth it. Thats why we have pvr's!! Im sure there are a few people about
> who liek the idea of a dvd recorder with a digital tuner but the realitty
> is there jsut wouldnt be a huge call for them..

If I had the surname of Speed, I might say something like "pig ignorant
drivel".


> If you want to archive sd quality stuff without analogue conversion just
> get a DTV card your pc

I'm not interested in an integrated burner for archiving (I don't understand
why people are), but more so for the convenience of giving someone a copy of
something they forgot to record (like you used to with video - "Oh, I forgot
to tape X!" "Don't worry, I taped it, I'll lend you the tape on the
weekend."). You can't do that (easily) with a PVR.

PC based tuners are a niche market, video recorders are very much mass
market. PC tuners simply aren't approachable for a lot of people. My dad
goes OK with a VCR, but he's all at sea when it comes to PC's. He's not
Robinson Crusoe.

Once people get their head around digital TV (& it often takes a while) they
don't understand why it isn't all combined & why they need multiple boxes to
perform the digital version of what they did with 1 box in analog (as the
original poster said).

Justin

[Ext User(HaZ)]

Justin, "Everyone" was just a broad statement. I just hear it so often as a
reason when there is no proof to justify it.

Secondly, you think that you can fit anything over 2 hours on a dvd and
still have something that would make it worthwhile having recorded it off SD
digital? I guess your idea of decent quality is different to mine. Anything
more than 2 hours, recorded on a 4.5 gb dvd looks terrible.


HaZ
"Justin" <justinnospam@nospamlogicalfusion.com.au> wrote in message
news:43866ed2$0$17702$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
> "HaZ" <haz_ng@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4385a002_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
>> You cant fit enough on a dvd at any sort of decent quality to make it
>> worth it. Thats why we have pvr's!! Im sure there are a few people about
>> who liek the idea of a dvd recorder with a digital tuner but the realitty
>> is there jsut wouldnt be a huge call for them..
>
> If I had the surname of Speed, I might say something like "pig ignorant
> drivel".
>
>
>> If you want to archive sd quality stuff without analogue conversion just
>> get a DTV card your pc
>
> I'm not interested in an integrated burner for archiving (I don't
> understand why people are), but more so for the convenience of giving
> someone a copy of something they forgot to record (like you used to with
> video - "Oh, I forgot to tape X!" "Don't worry, I taped it, I'll lend you
> the tape on the weekend."). You can't do that (easily) with a PVR.
>
> PC based tuners are a niche market, video recorders are very much mass
> market. PC tuners simply aren't approachable for a lot of people. My dad
> goes OK with a VCR, but he's all at sea when it comes to PC's. He's not
> Robinson Crusoe.
>
> Once people get their head around digital TV (& it often takes a while)
> they don't understand why it isn't all combined & why they need multiple
> boxes to perform the digital version of what they did with 1 box in analog
> (as the original poster said).
>
> Justin
>

[Ext User(Justin)]

"HaZ" <haz_ng@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4387007f_2@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
> Secondly, you think that you can fit anything over 2 hours on a dvd and
> still have something that would make it worthwhile having recorded it off
> SD digital? I guess your idea of decent quality is different to mine.
> Anything more than 2 hours, recorded on a 4.5 gb dvd looks terrible.

Most shows are 30 mins or 1 hour. As I said, it's not going to be for
putting everything recorded on to DVD, it's going to be for sharing the odd
show.

The other issue is that even if you're happy with a PVR & no DVD burner, you
still need a separate DVD player in your system. 1 VCR for both purposes in
analog land versus 1 STB & 1 DVD/hard drive recorder or 1 PVR & 1 DVD player
in digital land. It's silly.

[Ext User(Lord-Data)]

What the hell is over 2 hours and fits the concept of "oh i missed X"..

Even a movie is rarely going to be much more than 2 hours .. Most STBs with
HDDs have an editing facility to remove ads also, use this on almost ANY
public TV broadcast movie and you're going to be well under 2 hours .. you
could easily fit multiple episodes of most shows, or single episodes of
longer ones on a dvd with room to spare..



"HaZ" <haz_ng@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:4387007f_2@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
>
>
> Justin, "Everyone" was just a broad statement. I just hear it so often as
> a reason when there is no proof to justify it.
>
> Secondly, you think that you can fit anything over 2 hours on a dvd and
> still have something that would make it worthwhile having recorded it off
> SD digital? I guess your idea of decent quality is different to mine.
> Anything more than 2 hours, recorded on a 4.5 gb dvd looks terrible.
>
>
> HaZ
> "Justin" <justinnospam@nospamlogicalfusion.com.au> wrote in message
> news:43866ed2$0$17702$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>>
>> "HaZ" <haz_ng@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:4385a002_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
>>> You cant fit enough on a dvd at any sort of decent quality to make it
>>> worth it. Thats why we have pvr's!! Im sure there are a few people about
>>> who liek the idea of a dvd recorder with a digital tuner but the
>>> realitty is there jsut wouldnt be a huge call for them..
>>
>> If I had the surname of Speed, I might say something like "pig ignorant
>> drivel".
>>
>>
>>> If you want to archive sd quality stuff without analogue conversion just
>>> get a DTV card your pc
>>
>> I'm not interested in an integrated burner for archiving (I don't
>> understand why people are), but more so for the convenience of giving
>> someone a copy of something they forgot to record (like you used to with
>> video - "Oh, I forgot to tape X!" "Don't worry, I taped it, I'll lend you
>> the tape on the weekend."). You can't do that (easily) with a PVR.
>>
>> PC based tuners are a niche market, video recorders are very much mass
>> market. PC tuners simply aren't approachable for a lot of people. My dad
>> goes OK with a VCR, but he's all at sea when it comes to PC's. He's not
>> Robinson Crusoe.
>>
>> Once people get their head around digital TV (& it often takes a while)
>> they don't understand why it isn't all combined & why they need multiple
>> boxes to perform the digital version of what they did with 1 box in
>> analog (as the original poster said).
>>
>> Justin
>>
>
>

[Ext User(HaZ)]

Thats assuming that your only going to be recroding one show in a
shedule..you dont envison ever being in a situation where you've had to set
the unit to record more than one show and you wont be around to change the
media?

HaZ
"Lord-Data" <data@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:43880439$0$13318$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
> What the hell is over 2 hours and fits the concept of "oh i missed X"..
>
> Even a movie is rarely going to be much more than 2 hours .. Most STBs
> with HDDs have an editing facility to remove ads also, use this on almost
> ANY public TV broadcast movie and you're going to be well under 2 hours ..
> you could easily fit multiple episodes of most shows, or single episodes
> of longer ones on a dvd with room to spare..
>
>
>
> "HaZ" <haz_ng@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4387007f_2@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
>>
>>
>> Justin, "Everyone" was just a broad statement. I just hear it so often as
>> a reason when there is no proof to justify it.
>>
>> Secondly, you think that you can fit anything over 2 hours on a dvd and
>> still have something that would make it worthwhile having recorded it off
>> SD digital? I guess your idea of decent quality is different to mine.
>> Anything more than 2 hours, recorded on a 4.5 gb dvd looks terrible.
>>
>>
>> HaZ
>> "Justin" <justinnospam@nospamlogicalfusion.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:43866ed2$0$17702$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>>>
>>> "HaZ" <haz_ng@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
>>> news:4385a002_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
>>>> You cant fit enough on a dvd at any sort of decent quality to make it
>>>> worth it. Thats why we have pvr's!! Im sure there are a few people
>>>> about who liek the idea of a dvd recorder with a digital tuner but the
>>>> realitty is there jsut wouldnt be a huge call for them..
>>>
>>> If I had the surname of Speed, I might say something like "pig ignorant
>>> drivel".
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you want to archive sd quality stuff without analogue conversion
>>>> just get a DTV card your pc
>>>
>>> I'm not interested in an integrated burner for archiving (I don't
>>> understand why people are), but more so for the convenience of giving
>>> someone a copy of something they forgot to record (like you used to with
>>> video - "Oh, I forgot to tape X!" "Don't worry, I taped it, I'll lend
>>> you the tape on the weekend."). You can't do that (easily) with a PVR.
>>>
>>> PC based tuners are a niche market, video recorders are very much mass
>>> market. PC tuners simply aren't approachable for a lot of people. My dad
>>> goes OK with a VCR, but he's all at sea when it comes to PC's. He's not
>>> Robinson Crusoe.
>>>
>>> Once people get their head around digital TV (& it often takes a while)
>>> they don't understand why it isn't all combined & why they need multiple
>>> boxes to perform the digital version of what they did with 1 box in
>>> analog (as the original poster said).
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Ext User(Kevin Hendrikssen)]

"HaZ" <haz_ng@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:43883f60_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
> Thats assuming that your only going to be recroding one show in a
> shedule..you dont envison ever being in a situation where you've had to
> set the unit to record more than one show and you wont be around to change
> the media?

Even so, anyone buying a DVD recorder without a hard drive is going to
suffer that problem, whether it's got a digital or analogue tuner. The
answer of course is to record to HDD and only transfer what you need to
individual DVDs.

As I said in other post (which you seem to have ignored) they're available
in the UK so no good reason why not here. Not that I want/need one.

[Ext User(Justin)]

"HaZ" <haz_ng@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:43883f60_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
> Thats assuming that your only going to be recroding one show in a
> shedule..you dont envison ever being in a situation where you've had to
> set the unit to record more than one show and you wont be around to change
> the media?

No one's talking about recording straight to DVD. You record to the hard
drive & then transfer to DVD if you want/need to.

[Ext User(deFragged)]

HaZ wrote:
> Why does evryone think that the MPAA has somethintg to do with the lack of
> dvd recorders with digital tuners?
Because they said "we aren't supplying movie content in HD until we can
control the copying and use".

Has that stopped digital tv tuner cards for PC's? It a simple case of
its not worth it.
Not relevant. I have DVB-T card that can receive HD. HD function is not
much use unless you want the test program off Southern Cross Ten. Having
said that, I'm quite happy with SD as I archive most of my captures to
Xvid anyway.

You cant fit enough on a dvd
> at any sort of decent quality to make it worth it.
This is true. Anything more than about 40 minutes of HD you will need to
shrink it with DVD shrink or similar to get it to fit on a 4.7 DVD.

Thats why we have pvr's!!
> Im sure there are a few people about who liek the idea of a dvd recorder
> with a digital tuner but the realitty is there jsut wouldnt be a huge call
> for them.
I'd like one. One that works like a VCR would be nice.
If you want to archive sd quality stuff without analogue
> conversion just get a DTV card your pc.
I don't want to leave my PC on all of the time.
>

[Ext User(Tom N)]

Justin wrote:

> "deFragged" wrote:
>> Yep. unlikely to see them (if at all) until the MPAA etc get their
>> DRM / Broadcast flag etc in place.
>
> There's at least one available in Japan (Hitachi DV-DH1000W). It has
> dual high def tuners, 2 x 500GB hard drives & a DVD burner (which
> burns at low def - as there aren't high def burners yet).
> http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122307,00.asp
>
> There are a number of media centre PC's that combine all of this
> technology as well, & their cases are starting to catch up with the
> lounge room (style & less fan noise). Being modular, you can move with
> the times as new technology comes along (larger/more drives, faster
> DVD burners, different/more tuners). A number of brands are covered
> here: http://www.icetv.com.au/products.php

Windows Media Center Edition doesn't support HD audio and doesn't
support mixed digital and analog cards - all the tuners need to be the
same (according to the following link).

http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/index.php?redir=http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/show_image_products.php?input[category_id]=1088

There are other media centre PC software packages of course. Many of
the commercial white box units use Linux and some package on top of
that.

If and when HDCP comes into widespread use, a lot of components
will need to be updated. It remains to be seen whether this will be
widely accepted, and whether its use will be restricted to movies only
(and not broadcast TV). Using HDCP will restrict a content provider's
market and it relies on viewers having compatible hardware - but it is
expensive to upgrade every component and even those with some or all
digital components won't all have equipment that supports it.

An integrated STB, DVD recorder and PVR is likely to be big bucks, so
you would want it to last a while. Hence you'd want to ensure it and
your TV had HDCP/HDMI.

For a media centre PC, getting HDCP/HDMI might mean upgrading the
monitor/TV, tuner card, video card and possibly the DVD drive and
software. Or possibly HDCPwill be hacked and you will just need new
software.