1.6L Warped alloy head

[Ext User(Jeremy Miller)]

Overheated my little daewoo Cielo 1.6L Runabout.,Temp guage only showed
halfway :(

Found loads of coolant in each of the 4 cylinders.Engine still spins fine.

I pulled the head off last weekend and found the head gasket to be OK?

But the head seems bowed longways.Pretty bad.

Also found the top of #3 piston crown a little brittle and slightly chipped
with a little scuffing on the cylinder wall.

I'm just after some advice. If anyone has experiecnce with this stuff.

Can I get away with resurfacing the head flat or replacing it and installing
a new head gasket etc

Is the damage on the piston going to give me trouble?


cheers Jeremy

[Ext User(cd)]

i'm afraid it ain't good from what you've told me.
The head you may as well throw away, but to be sure get it checked at a
machine shop to see if it's still within spec (if the alloy is become
too soft or not)

Coolant in all the pistons is definetly not good, you probably have bet
conrods on all 4 now from hydrolocking. (coolant not compressing so the
conrods bend instead)

Of course it's always possible coolant got in there when you took the
head off??

Whent thru the exact same ordeal with a korean deawoo musso. The
radiator pipe was in a shitful ploace and somehoe the radiator fan was
hitting it and it sprung a leak, car overheated the alloy head warped
from overheating, became too soft to keep it's shape and thusly allowed
coolant into a couple cylinders and bent the 3 conrods. Managed to get
another head for $3000, but conrods were very expensive so i said fuck
it and assembled the engine backtogether with the bend conrods and it
still goes, just with slightly less compression with the bent conrods
and nasty metallic knocking noise.

(get it checked out tho i could be jumping to conclusions.)

Jeremy Miller wrote:
> Overheated my little daewoo Cielo 1.6L Runabout.,Temp guage only showed
> halfway :(
>
> Found loads of coolant in each of the 4 cylinders.Engine still spins fine.
>
> I pulled the head off last weekend and found the head gasket to be OK?
>
> But the head seems bowed longways.Pretty bad.
>
> Also found the top of #3 piston crown a little brittle and slightly chipped
> with a little scuffing on the cylinder wall.
>
> I'm just after some advice. If anyone has experiecnce with this stuff.
>
> Can I get away with resurfacing the head flat or replacing it and installing
> a new head gasket etc
>
> Is the damage on the piston going to give me trouble?
>
>
> cheers Jeremy
>
>
>

[Ext User(Jason James)]

"Jeremy Miller" <jm4221@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:Gnbqf.74576$V7.2083@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Overheated my little daewoo Cielo 1.6L Runabout.,Temp guage only showed
> halfway :(
>
> Found loads of coolant in each of the 4 cylinders.Engine still spins fine.
>
> I pulled the head off last weekend and found the head gasket to be OK?
>
> But the head seems bowed longways.Pretty bad.



> Also found the top of #3 piston crown a little brittle and slightly
chipped
> with a little scuffing on the cylinder wall.
>
> I'm just after some advice. If anyone has experiecnce with this stuff.
>
> Can I get away with resurfacing the head flat or replacing it and
installing
> a new head gasket etc
>
> Is the damage on the piston going to give me trouble?
>
>
> cheers Jeremy
When an alloy head engine goes thru an overheat, a series of events occurs,
Now it varies how far these events overlap as to whether the bottom end of
the engine is damaged (ie pistons rods). If the engine-head warped far
enough to allow any coolant which got into the cylinders to also be pushed
out thru the gap (due warp) between the head and block on
compression-stroke, your bottom end *maybe* ok. The scuffing on No 3 is not
encouraging, as that maybe due to hydraulic- load forcing the piston against
its cylinder-wall, or maybe it was there before. Was the engine in good
condition before the o/heat?

If the overheat was bad, and by the sounds of it, it was,.I'd just chuck the
head and get a 2nd hand one which you check at the wreckers with a steel
rule and feeler gauge set for warp, and make sure its got warrenty. Strictly
speaking, it also should be crack-tested,...but if its straight,and its not
rotted out, I'd try it, as the job is not that difficult.


OHC alloy heads once warped, cause the cam to sieze due bearing tunnel
distortion which cant be fixed by just getting the rooted head shaved.

Jason

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Jeremy Miller" <jm4221@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:Gnbqf.74576$V7.2083@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> Can I get away with resurfacing the head flat or replacing it and
> installing a new head gasket etc

Not if you plan on keeping the car :)

Surfacing a bent head is a very bad idea on OHC engines. When the head
bends, it bends top *and* bottom usually, and while a quick surface grind
will straighten the gasket area, it will do nothing to re-align the camshaft
tunnels/location.

You'll need to get the head straightened before it can be surfaced. It may
also possibly need a line bore, and I would have it pressure tested before I
did anything at all.

> Is the damage on the piston going to give me trouble?

I have no idea, as it's impossible to know how bad it is based on your
description. However I would add that if the piston & bore are damaged, it's
not going to magically heal itself.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Albm&ctd)]

In article <43a9f1be$1@news.comindico.com.au>, dg4163@dodo.com.au says...
>
> "Jeremy Miller" <jm4221@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:Gnbqf.74576$V7.2083@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> > Can I get away with resurfacing the head flat or replacing it and
> > installing a new head gasket etc
>
> Not if you plan on keeping the car :)
>
> Surfacing a bent head is a very bad idea on OHC engines. When the head
> bends, it bends top *and* bottom usually, and while a quick surface grind
> will straighten the gasket area, it will do nothing to re-align the camshaft
> tunnels/location.
>
> You'll need to get the head straightened before it can be surfaced. It may
> also possibly need a line bore, and I would have it pressure tested before I
> did anything at all.
>
> > Is the damage on the piston going to give me trouble?
>
> I have no idea, as it's impossible to know how bad it is based on your
> description. However I would add that if the piston & bore are damaged, it's
> not going to magically heal itself.
>
Sounds like it's fuck*d to me. At the very least it will blow smoke after
assembly.
With all the computers and usb cock warmers, the vehicle designers still
fail to put something useful into their cars, a low coolant sensor.

Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html

[Ext User(Jeremy Miller)]

Thanks for the help guys.

I'll post some pics up of the piston damage.

If the cam spins fine in its tunnel (by hand) would it be ok?

Cheers Jeremy


"Jeremy Miller" <jm4221@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:Gnbqf.74576$V7.2083@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Overheated my little daewoo Cielo 1.6L Runabout.,Temp guage only showed
> halfway :(
>
> Found loads of coolant in each of the 4 cylinders.Engine still spins fine.
>
> I pulled the head off last weekend and found the head gasket to be OK?
>
> But the head seems bowed longways.Pretty bad.
>
> Also found the top of #3 piston crown a little brittle and slightly
> chipped with a little scuffing on the cylinder wall.
>
> I'm just after some advice. If anyone has experiecnce with this stuff.
>
> Can I get away with resurfacing the head flat or replacing it and
> installing a new head gasket etc
>
> Is the damage on the piston going to give me trouble?
>
>
> cheers Jeremy
>
>
>

[Ext User(Clockmeister)]

"Jeremy Miller" <jm4221@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:B%sqf.82055$V7.10594@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Thanks for the help guys.
>
> I'll post some pics up of the piston damage.
>
> If the cam spins fine in its tunnel (by hand) would it be ok?
>

In theory perhaps, but that engine is prone to snapping camshafts so I
wouldn't bet on it.

Damage to the bores is indicative of other problems which won't magically
cure themselves by fixing the head either.

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Jeremy Miller" <jm4221@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:B%sqf.82055$V7.10594@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> I'll post some pics up of the piston damage.

That would help greatly.

> If the cam spins fine in its tunnel (by hand) would it be ok?

Provided it spins by hand *easily* with a drop of oil on each journal.

I forget which engine you said it was, but if it has removable cam caps they
all need to be tightened to the correct torque to check for sure. If you
have a good straight edge that is long enough, lay it on it's side through
the tunnels as if it were a camshaft, and check to see that all the tunnels
are reasonably lined up by looking for gaps under the straight edge on some
tunnels (particularly the ones closest to the centre), or by seeing if the
straight edge "see saws" across any high ones.

There shouldn't be any variation of more than a couple of thousandths.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(FruitLoop)]

Get a copper head gasket and torque it down . It will pull straight .

Also get a thinner copper gasket than the standard one , will raise
compression to compensate for bent rods .

[Ext User(cd)]

FruitLoop wrote:
> Get a copper head gasket and torque it down . It will pull straight .
>
> Also get a thinner copper gasket than the standard one , will raise
> compression to compensate for bent rods .
>
>
>
If it pulls down easily then i'd say the alloy has become too soft to be
of any use.

[Ext User(Jason James)]

"FruitLoop" <Hyperactive@fruitloop.net> wrote in message
news:p0yqf.84217$V7.13399@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Get a copper head gasket and torque it down . It will pull straight .
>
> Also get a thinner copper gasket than the standard one , will raise
> compression to compensate for bent rods .

Yikes! A joke, right?


Jason

[Ext User(cd)]

Jason James wrote:
> "FruitLoop" <Hyperactive@fruitloop.net> wrote in message
> news:p0yqf.84217$V7.13399@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>>Get a copper head gasket and torque it down . It will pull straight .
>>
>>Also get a thinner copper gasket than the standard one , will raise
>>compression to compensate for bent rods .
>
>
> Yikes! A joke, right?
>
>
> Jason
>
>
Depends, Conrods that bent in my musso deisel were bent only a fraction,
the pistons were probably 1-2mm down compared to the rest (ones that
didn't have bent conrods) and bieng a diesel compression is everything.
but really you'd get another engine at that point unless your a poor
arse like me :P

[Ext User(Jason James)]

"cd" <urantiacjd@iinet.com.au> wrote in message
news:43aac7e7$0$14681$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Jason James wrote:
> > "FruitLoop" <Hyperactive@fruitloop.net> wrote in message
> > news:p0yqf.84217$V7.13399@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >
> >>Get a copper head gasket and torque it down . It will pull straight .
> >>
> >>Also get a thinner copper gasket than the standard one , will raise
> >>compression to compensate for bent rods .
> >
> >
> > Yikes! A joke, right?
> >
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> Depends, Conrods that bent in my musso deisel were bent only a fraction,
> the pistons were probably 1-2mm down compared to the rest (ones that
> didn't have bent conrods) and bieng a diesel compression is everything.
> but really you'd get another engine at that point unless your a poor
> arse like me :P

OK,...just hadn't heard of an engine being run with such damage.

Jason

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Jason James" <associate@dodo.comzapspam.au> wrote in message
news:43ab2800@news.comindico.com.au...

> OK,...just hadn't heard of an engine being run with such damage.

I ran in the final round at Calder one night on seven cylinders after then
engine kicked a rod out in the semi's. I just covered the hole in the block
with gaffer tape to keep the oil in :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(John McKenzie)]

Noddy wrote:
>
> There shouldn't be any variation of more than a couple of thousandths.

Or in plainspeak, if you can see light peeking through between the
straight edge and the cam'bearing' saddle it's bad news


--
John McKenzie

tosspam@aol.com abuse@aol.com abuse@yahoo.com abuse@hotmail.com
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abuse@federalpolice.gov.au

[Ext User(FruitLoop)]

"Feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message
news:43ab2d9d$0$505$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com
..au...
> Jason James wrote:
>
> > OK,...just hadn't heard of an engine being run with such damage.
>
> I have Jason, and the rod that was slightly bent in the diesel ended up
> like a banana pretty soon after it was put back together. :-)
>
> Blind freddy knows that the forces exerted on the rod, once it is bent,
> is just gunna bend it more.

Easily fixed , fill the crankcase with water with the bent rod on its down
moment and the hydro-lock works in reverse thus straightening the rod .

Takes 5 minutes to do

..


>
> --
> Take Care.
> Feral

[Ext User(Albm&ctd)]

In article <43ab3a67@news.comindico.com.au>, dg4163@dodo.com.au says...
>
> "Jason James" <associate@dodo.comzapspam.au> wrote in message
> news:43ab2800@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> > OK,...just hadn't heard of an engine being run with such damage.
>
> I ran in the final round at Calder one night on seven cylinders after then
> engine kicked a rod out in the semi's. I just covered the hole in the block
> with gaffer tape to keep the oil in :)
>
I rode my Honda twin more than once with a shattered piston, plug out,
bits of piston and ring chopping at the head then when home, beat the
combustion chamber into shape with a ballpene (sp) hammer and you thought
YOU were a rough tart in your younger days. You could only match this if
you got home on 4 out of 8.

Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html

[Ext User(budgie)]

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:06:18 +1100, Feral <plonked@home.ru> wrote:

>FruitLoop wrote:
>
>> "Feral" <plonked@home.ru> wrote in message
>> news:43ab2d9d$0$505$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com
>> .au...
>>
>>>Jason James wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>OK,...just hadn't heard of an engine being run with such damage.
>>>
>>>I have Jason, and the rod that was slightly bent in the diesel ended up
>>>like a banana pretty soon after it was put back together. :-)
>>>
>>>Blind freddy knows that the forces exerted on the rod, once it is bent,
>>>is just gunna bend it more.
>>
>>
>> Easily fixed , fill the crankcase with water with the bent rod on its down
>> moment and the hydro-lock works in reverse thus straightening the rod .
>>
>> Takes 5 minutes to do
>
>To coin a phrase (?):
>
>Bwaahahaahahahahahahahahahahaaha
>
>You *do* live up to your name. :-P

Beat me to it.

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"FruitLoop" <Hyperactive@fruitloop.net> wrote in message
news:iQHqf.88168$V7.30450@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> Easily fixed , fill the crankcase with water with the bent rod on its down
> moment and the hydro-lock works in reverse thus straightening the rod .
>
> Takes 5 minutes to do

Quoted from page 5 of "The Tom & Jerry book of engine reconditioning" :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Albm&ctd" <alb_mandctdNOWMD@connexus.net.au> wrote in message

> I rode my Honda twin more than once with a shattered piston, plug out,
> bits of piston and ring chopping at the head then when home, beat the
> combustion chamber into shape with a ballpene (sp) hammer and you thought
> YOU were a rough tart in your younger days. You could only match this if
> you got home on 4 out of 8.

Yeah, true, but I still made over 100mph with the remains of the broken rod
thrashing around inside the engine :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.