Gasless MIG [Archive] - Aussie Phorums

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Ext User(Jason James)

10-01-2006, 06:23 PM

I've been welding up a prefab tubular frame (a $20 chinese trolley with
pneumatic tires) with angle bracket for an engine mount (its a go-cart).
While very careful use of amperage has allowed a lot of successful stick
welds,..the occassional hole blown in the approx 2 mill tubing is pissing me
off,.especially after seeing how easy mig welding is on "American Chopper"
(Discovery program on Orange county choppers). Those guys prefab with a mig
which looks moronically easy.

I note that gasless MIG uses flux-cored wire to shield the arc,..is this
feasible for occasional light work at about $500 the unit,..or is gas the
best way and not too much dearer?

Jason TIA answers

Ext User(Untermensch)

10-01-2006, 07:44 PM

Gasless is useless. Better off paying the extra for a good gas unit. You
will get much better results that way and be able to use it on thin sheet
metal like cars etc.

"Jason James" <associate@dodo.comzapspam.au> wrote in message
news:43c360b0@news.comindico.com.au...
> I've been welding up a prefab tubular frame (a $20 chinese trolley with
> pneumatic tires) with angle bracket for an engine mount (its a go-cart).
> While very careful use of amperage has allowed a lot of successful stick
> welds,..the occassional hole blown in the approx 2 mill tubing is pissing
> me
> off,.especially after seeing how easy mig welding is on "American Chopper"
> (Discovery program on Orange county choppers). Those guys prefab with a
> mig
> which looks moronically easy.
>
> I note that gasless MIG uses flux-cored wire to shield the arc,..is this
> feasible for occasional light work at about $500 the unit,..or is gas the
> best way and not too much dearer?
>
> Jason TIA answers
>
>

Ext User(Poxy)

10-01-2006, 08:44 PM

Jason James wrote:
> I've been welding up a prefab tubular frame (a $20 chinese trolley
> with pneumatic tires) with angle bracket for an engine mount (its a
> go-cart). While very careful use of amperage has allowed a lot of
> successful stick welds,..the occassional hole blown in the approx 2
> mill tubing is pissing me off,.especially after seeing how easy mig
> welding is on "American Chopper" (Discovery program on Orange county
> choppers). Those guys prefab with a mig which looks moronically easy.
>
> I note that gasless MIG uses flux-cored wire to shield the arc,..is
> this feasible for occasional light work at about $500 the unit,..or
> is gas the best way and not too much dearer?

Anyone who has the gas gear (and is paying the rental on the bottle) will
tell you that gasless wire is crap - actually it's really not that bad, and
certainly fine for your application.

Ext User(Noddy)

10-01-2006, 09:53 PM

"Jason James" <associate@dodo.comzapspam.au> wrote in message
news:43c360b0@news.comindico.com.au...

> I note that gasless MIG uses flux-cored wire to shield the arc,..is this
> feasible for occasional light work at about $500 the unit,..or is gas the
> best way and not too much dearer?

You can get reasonable results with gasless mig welding, but it takes a
*lot* of work to do so (before, during *and* after the welding).

Unfortunately, the very best flux cored wire is a piss poor substitute for
proper shielding gas, and things are made considerably worse by the fact
that you need a *very* good welder in order to get decent results with it.
Even with a very good machine the results are quite often aesthetically
poor, but when you combine gassless wire with a cheap arsed wleder you're
virtually gauranteed to get completely crap resutls.

Personally, I've seen very little in the 500 buck range of mig welders that
I would consider to be useful, and think you'd be better off perfecting your
stick welding skills and keeping your cash. There's very little for under a
grand these days that's anywhere near decent, and like any other tool, you
get what you pay for.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

Ext User(Rheilly Phoull)

10-01-2006, 11:13 PM

"Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:43c391b2$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "Jason James" <associate@dodo.comzapspam.au> wrote in message
> news:43c360b0@news.comindico.com.au...
>
>> I note that gasless MIG uses flux-cored wire to shield the arc,..is this
>> feasible for occasional light work at about $500 the unit,..or is gas the
>> best way and not too much dearer?
>
> You can get reasonable results with gasless mig welding, but it takes a
> *lot* of work to do so (before, during *and* after the welding).
>
> Unfortunately, the very best flux cored wire is a piss poor substitute for
> proper shielding gas, and things are made considerably worse by the fact
> that you need a *very* good welder in order to get decent results with it.
> Even with a very good machine the results are quite often aesthetically
> poor, but when you combine gassless wire with a cheap arsed wleder you're
> virtually gauranteed to get completely crap resutls.
>
> Personally, I've seen very little in the 500 buck range of mig welders
> that I would consider to be useful, and think you'd be better off
> perfecting your stick welding skills and keeping your cash. There's very
> little for under a grand these days that's anywhere near decent, and like
> any other tool, you get what you pay for.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
>

Hell yeah, using 2mm tube if ya keep the gaps in the joints close the old
stick welder with 2.5mm sticks can do a good job. Slow and careful avoids a
lot of grinding :=)

--
Regards ......... Rheilly Phoull

Ext User(Jason James)

11-01-2006, 03:04 AM

"Rheilly Phoull" <Rheilly@bigpong.com> wrote in message
news:43c3a338$0$12607$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
> "Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:43c391b2$1@news.comindico.com.au...
> >
> > "Jason James" <associate@dodo.comzapspam.au> wrote in message
> > news:43c360b0@news.comindico.com.au...
> >
> >> I note that gasless MIG uses flux-cored wire to shield the arc,..is
this
> >> feasible for occasional light work at about $500 the unit,..or is gas
the
> >> best way and not too much dearer?
> >
> > You can get reasonable results with gasless mig welding, but it takes a
> > *lot* of work to do so (before, during *and* after the welding).
> >
> > Unfortunately, the very best flux cored wire is a piss poor substitute
for
> > proper shielding gas, and things are made considerably worse by the fact
> > that you need a *very* good welder in order to get decent results with
it.
> > Even with a very good machine the results are quite often aesthetically
> > poor, but when you combine gassless wire with a cheap arsed wleder
you're
> > virtually gauranteed to get completely crap resutls.
> >
> > Personally, I've seen very little in the 500 buck range of mig welders
> > that I would consider to be useful, and think you'd be better off
> > perfecting your stick welding skills and keeping your cash. There's very
> > little for under a grand these days that's anywhere near decent, and
like
> > any other tool, you get what you pay for.
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Noddy.
> >
>
> Hell yeah, using 2mm tube if ya keep the gaps in the joints close the old
> stick welder with 2.5mm sticks can do a good job. Slow and careful avoids
a
> lot of grinding :=)

Thanx for the info, everybody. I get the picture.

Jason

Ext User(Scotty)

11-01-2006, 10:13 AM

"Jason James" <associate@dodo.comzapspam.au> wrote in message
news:43c360b0@news.comindico.com.au...
> I've been welding up a prefab tubular frame (a $20 chinese trolley with
> pneumatic tires) with angle bracket for an engine mount (its a go-cart).
> While very careful use of amperage has allowed a lot of successful stick
> welds,..the occassional hole blown in the approx 2 mill tubing is pissing
> me
> off,.especially after seeing how easy mig welding is on "American Chopper"
> (Discovery program on Orange county choppers). Those guys prefab with a
> mig
> which looks moronically easy.
>
> I note that gasless MIG uses flux-cored wire to shield the arc,..is this
> feasible for occasional light work at about $500 the unit,..or is gas the
> best way and not too much dearer?
>
> Jason TIA answers
>
>

After asking the same question in here around 6 months ago I bought a
Transmig welder that can use either gas or gasless. Ive done a few simpple
welds with the gasless as Im to tight to pay for the gas hireage cause I
only use on the odd occasion when I break the mower etc.

So far almost all welds have been successful with welding two mild steel
surfaces. (Ie Square and round tube). Done a billy cart for my kids and
neighbours kids and while the gasless welding Ive found creates a lot of
splatter (I learned very quickly to wear long socks trousers!) its fine for
my general purposes. The price of $200 I paid was well worth it (2nd hand
of course)and if I ever get my A into G and do a welding course I can get
some use out of the gas regulator and gear that I got with it.

Try hire one or borrow one to do a quick weld and see how ya like it.

PS My neighbour used mine to successfully weld a large steel automatic gate
with 1.5x3inch sqaure tube (3mm thick) which made my welds look arcaic but
it gave me faith in the tool.

Ext User(Fraser Johnston)

11-01-2006, 01:33 PM

Ext User(Jason James)

12-01-2006, 01:23 AM

"Scotty" <scoter1@warmmail.com> wrote in message
news:43c43ea5$0$9138$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
>
> "Jason James" <associate@dodo.comzapspam.au> wrote in message
> news:43c360b0@news.comindico.com.au...
> > I've been welding up a prefab tubular frame (a $20 chinese trolley with
> > pneumatic tires) with angle bracket for an engine mount (its a go-cart).
> > While very careful use of amperage has allowed a lot of successful stick
> > welds,..the occassional hole blown in the approx 2 mill tubing is
pissing
> > me
> > off,.especially after seeing how easy mig welding is on "American
Chopper"
> > (Discovery program on Orange county choppers). Those guys prefab with a
> > mig
> > which looks moronically easy.
> >
> > I note that gasless MIG uses flux-cored wire to shield the arc,..is this
> > feasible for occasional light work at about $500 the unit,..or is gas
the
> > best way and not too much dearer?
> >
> > Jason TIA answers
> >
> >
>
> After asking the same question in here around 6 months ago I bought a
> Transmig welder that can use either gas or gasless. Ive done a few simpple
> welds with the gasless as Im to tight to pay for the gas hireage cause I
> only use on the odd occasion when I break the mower etc.
>
> So far almost all welds have been successful with welding two mild steel
> surfaces. (Ie Square and round tube). Done a billy cart for my kids and
> neighbours kids and while the gasless welding Ive found creates a lot of
> splatter (I learned very quickly to wear long socks trousers!) its fine
for
> my general purposes. The price of $200 I paid was well worth it (2nd hand
> of course)and if I ever get my A into G and do a welding course I can get
> some use out of the gas regulator and gear that I got with it.
>
> Try hire one or borrow one to do a quick weld and see how ya like it.
>
> PS My neighbour used mine to successfully weld a large steel automatic
gate
> with 1.5x3inch sqaure tube (3mm thick) which made my welds look arcaic but

> it gave me faith in the tool.

Perhaps the splattering was caused by ovidisation? Thanx for the comparison.
I do very little welding also, altho the number of jobs does increase once
you have one eg making window security bars etc or repairing the trailer
floor.
Its the old problem of trying to do decent welds with sheet-metal. I said
the tube was 2mm,..its more like 1mm. I'll scout around to see if I can try
a gasless unit.

I know a guy who has oxy gear and the bottle hire (small ones) is horrendous
from CIG.

Jason

Ext User(Kev)

14-01-2006, 02:43 AM

Jason James wrote:

> "Rheilly Phoull" <Rheilly@bigpong.com> wrote in message
> news:43c3a338$0$12607$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
>>"Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
>>news:43c391b2$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>
>>>"Jason James" <associate@dodo.comzapspam.au> wrote in message
>>>news:43c360b0@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I note that gasless MIG uses flux-cored wire to shield the arc,..is
>
> this
>
>>>>feasible for occasional light work at about $500 the unit,..or is gas
>
> the
>
>>>>best way and not too much dearer?
>>>
>>>You can get reasonable results with gasless mig welding, but it takes a
>>>*lot* of work to do so (before, during *and* after the welding).
>>>
>>>Unfortunately, the very best flux cored wire is a piss poor substitute
>
> for
>
>>>proper shielding gas, and things are made considerably worse by the fact
>>>that you need a *very* good welder in order to get decent results with
>
> it.
>
>>>Even with a very good machine the results are quite often aesthetically
>>>poor, but when you combine gassless wire with a cheap arsed wleder
>
> you're
>
>>>virtually gauranteed to get completely crap resutls.
>>>
>>>Personally, I've seen very little in the 500 buck range of mig welders
>>>that I would consider to be useful, and think you'd be better off
>>>perfecting your stick welding skills and keeping your cash. There's very
>>>little for under a grand these days that's anywhere near decent, and
>
> like
>
>>>any other tool, you get what you pay for.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Regards,
>>>Noddy.
>>>
>>
>>Hell yeah, using 2mm tube if ya keep the gaps in the joints close the old
>>stick welder with 2.5mm sticks can do a good job. Slow and careful avoids
>
> a
>
>>lot of grinding :=)
>
>
>
>
> Thanx for the info, everybody. I get the picture.
>
> Jason
>
>
besides it's too easy to do really bad welds with a mig
looks neat but breaks the first sign of any load

Kev

Ext User(Kev)

14-01-2006, 02:43 AM

Fraser Johnston wrote:

> "Jason James" <associate@dodo.comzapspam.au> wrote in message
> news:43c360b0@news.comindico.com.au...
>
>>I've been welding up a prefab tubular frame (a $20 chinese trolley with
>>pneumatic tires) with angle bracket for an engine mount (its a go-cart).
>>While very careful use of amperage has allowed a lot of successful stick
>>welds,..the occassional hole blown in the approx 2 mill tubing is pissing
>>me
>>off,.especially after seeing how easy mig welding is on "American Chopper"
>>(Discovery program on Orange county choppers). Those guys prefab with a
>>mig
>>which looks moronically easy.
>
>
> They use a lot of TIG welding too.
>
> Fraser
>
>
TIG welding is the go for light tube and sheet metal
and piss easy after a few goes at it

Kev

Ext User(Poxy)

14-01-2006, 10:23 PM

Kev wrote:
> Jason James wrote:
>
>> "Rheilly Phoull" <Rheilly@bigpong.com> wrote in message
>> news:43c3a338$0$12607$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>>
>>> "Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
>>> news:43c391b2$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>
>>>> "Jason James" <associate@dodo.comzapspam.au> wrote in message
>>>> news:43c360b0@news.comindico.com.au...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I note that gasless MIG uses flux-cored wire to shield the
>>>>> arc,..is
>>
>> this
>>
>>>>> feasible for occasional light work at about $500 the unit,..or is
>>>>> gas
>>
>> the
>>
>>>>> best way and not too much dearer?
>>>>
>>>> You can get reasonable results with gasless mig welding, but it
>>>> takes a *lot* of work to do so (before, during *and* after the
>>>> welding).
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, the very best flux cored wire is a piss poor
>>>> substitute
>>
>> for
>>
>>>> proper shielding gas, and things are made considerably worse by
>>>> the fact that you need a *very* good welder in order to get decent
>>>> results with
>>
>> it.
>>
>>>> Even with a very good machine the results are quite often
>>>> aesthetically poor, but when you combine gassless wire with a
>>>> cheap arsed wleder
>>
>> you're
>>
>>>> virtually gauranteed to get completely crap resutls.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I've seen very little in the 500 buck range of mig
>>>> welders that I would consider to be useful, and think you'd be
>>>> better off perfecting your stick welding skills and keeping your
>>>> cash. There's very little for under a grand these days that's
>>>> anywhere near decent, and
>>
>> like
>>
>>>> any other tool, you get what you pay for.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Noddy.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hell yeah, using 2mm tube if ya keep the gaps in the joints close
>>> the old stick welder with 2.5mm sticks can do a good job. Slow and
>>> careful avoids
>>
>> a
>>
>>> lot of grinding :=)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanx for the info, everybody. I get the picture.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
> besides it's too easy to do really bad welds with a mig
> looks neat but breaks the first sign of any load

True - mig welding is all about preparation of the job - far more critical
than with arc welding.