Ext User(Quintal)
09-03-2006, 01:24 PM
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 19:14:33 -0500, <Ztox@gmail.com> wrote:
>Mysterion <mysterionNOSPAM@supernet.com> wrote:
>
>> What about the plaque at your beloved Auschwitz, liar?
>> Or didn't you know it had been changed?
>> Don't feel bad about not knowing, nobody was supposed to notice.
>>
>You're pretty slow on the uptake, aren't you?
>
>This has been long debunked and explained; yet the Holocaust deniers keep
>digging up the corpse in a vain effort to revive it. It's more evidence that
>the deniers are unwilling to accept the truth and continue to delude
>themselves.
Actualy I like your quote very much. It's exactly what I'm looking for
from your side of the debate. Factual, to the point, utterly
uninterested in ad hominems.
Thing is, it's not that easy to find. Frankly.
Besides, it's not what state law encourages us to do in europe
(rational concrete factual analysis).
>Excerpt from:
>Deceit & Misrepresentation
>The Techniques of Holocaust Denial
>
>
>The Auschwitz Gambit: The Four Million Variant
>http://ftp.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/four-million-03.html
>
>
>More recently there have been attempts to accurately the number dead at
>Auschwitz. Franciszek Piper of the Auschwitz State Museum published a study
>called "The Number of Victims" in Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp.[12]
>The study outlines his investigation intothe total Auschwitz death toll, and
>how he reached his estimate of1.1 million, effectively debunking the old
>Soviet figure.
>
>
> * "The four million figure was changed due to 'revisionist' findings."
>
>
>This claim is clearly fallacious, as the revised figure is actually more in
>tune with the estimates of credible historians than the Soviet Commission's
>count. If anything, it was the easing of cold war tensions that allowed
>reexamination of the four million total rather than the research of
>"revisionist historians."
>
>
>In fact, it was a study begun in 1980 by Franciszek Piper, head of the
>Historical Department at the Auschwitz State Museum that finally displaced
>the Museum's four million figure. [13] Piper collected all available
>documentation on how many deportees arrived at Auschwitz, and subtracted from
>this all known transfers, releases, and escapees to arrive at his estimation.
>Here are his calculations:
>
>
>Deportees to Auschwitz: 1,300,000
>Transfers: -212,820
>Released prisoners: -1,500
>Escapees: -500
>Liberated Prisoners: -8,000
> ----------
>Total Dead: 1,077,180
>
>
>Or about 1.1 million dead, which is not that different from Hilberg's
>estimate of one million dead at Auschwitz.[14] Piper concluded that this
>figure is a minimum estimate, as this does not account for victims not listed
>in the records, particularly those who were killed immediately upon arrival.
>After the study's completion in 1986, Piper's findings were confirmed by a
>panel of historians appointed by Poland's Ministry of Culture.[15] Shortly
>thereafter, the official death toll at the State Museum was lowered to 1.1
>million.
>
>
> * "Since the Auschwitz State Museum lowered its death toll to one
>million, the total number of Holocaust victims should be reduced by about
>three million."
>
>
>Again, this is false. Few (if any) historians ever believed the Museum's four
>million figure, having arrived at their own estimates independently. The
>museum's inflated figures were never part of the estimated five to six
>million Jews killed in the Holocaust, so there is no need to revise this
>figure.
>
>
>Conclusion
>
>
>Holocaust deniers often misstate a historical fact to confuse and confound an
>otherwise naïve reader, and the "Four Million Variant"is no exception. Each
>piece of this denier puzzle is flawed, from the contention that the number
>killed at Auschwitz was protected as an "irrefutable fact" to the existence
>of some cabal that slanders all those who question this figure.
>
>
>Deniers often use the "Four Million Variant" as a stepping stone to leap from
>an apparent contradiction to the idea that the Holocaust was a hoax, again
>perpetrated by a conspiracy. They hope to discredit historians by making them
>seem inconsistent. If they can't keep their numbers straight, their reasoning
>goes, how can we say that their evidence for the Holocaust is credible? One
>must wonder which historians they speak of, as most have been remarkably
>consistent in their estimates of a million or so dead. [16], [17], [18]
>
>
>In short, all of the denier's blustering about the "Four Million Variant" is
>a specious attempt to envelope the reader into their web of deceit, and it
>can be discarded after the most rudimentary examination of published
>histories.
>Mysterion <mysterionNOSPAM@supernet.com> wrote:
>
>> What about the plaque at your beloved Auschwitz, liar?
>> Or didn't you know it had been changed?
>> Don't feel bad about not knowing, nobody was supposed to notice.
>>
>You're pretty slow on the uptake, aren't you?
>
>This has been long debunked and explained; yet the Holocaust deniers keep
>digging up the corpse in a vain effort to revive it. It's more evidence that
>the deniers are unwilling to accept the truth and continue to delude
>themselves.
Actualy I like your quote very much. It's exactly what I'm looking for
from your side of the debate. Factual, to the point, utterly
uninterested in ad hominems.
Thing is, it's not that easy to find. Frankly.
Besides, it's not what state law encourages us to do in europe
(rational concrete factual analysis).
>Excerpt from:
>Deceit & Misrepresentation
>The Techniques of Holocaust Denial
>
>
>The Auschwitz Gambit: The Four Million Variant
>http://ftp.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/four-million-03.html
>
>
>More recently there have been attempts to accurately the number dead at
>Auschwitz. Franciszek Piper of the Auschwitz State Museum published a study
>called "The Number of Victims" in Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp.[12]
>The study outlines his investigation intothe total Auschwitz death toll, and
>how he reached his estimate of1.1 million, effectively debunking the old
>Soviet figure.
>
>
> * "The four million figure was changed due to 'revisionist' findings."
>
>
>This claim is clearly fallacious, as the revised figure is actually more in
>tune with the estimates of credible historians than the Soviet Commission's
>count. If anything, it was the easing of cold war tensions that allowed
>reexamination of the four million total rather than the research of
>"revisionist historians."
>
>
>In fact, it was a study begun in 1980 by Franciszek Piper, head of the
>Historical Department at the Auschwitz State Museum that finally displaced
>the Museum's four million figure. [13] Piper collected all available
>documentation on how many deportees arrived at Auschwitz, and subtracted from
>this all known transfers, releases, and escapees to arrive at his estimation.
>Here are his calculations:
>
>
>Deportees to Auschwitz: 1,300,000
>Transfers: -212,820
>Released prisoners: -1,500
>Escapees: -500
>Liberated Prisoners: -8,000
> ----------
>Total Dead: 1,077,180
>
>
>Or about 1.1 million dead, which is not that different from Hilberg's
>estimate of one million dead at Auschwitz.[14] Piper concluded that this
>figure is a minimum estimate, as this does not account for victims not listed
>in the records, particularly those who were killed immediately upon arrival.
>After the study's completion in 1986, Piper's findings were confirmed by a
>panel of historians appointed by Poland's Ministry of Culture.[15] Shortly
>thereafter, the official death toll at the State Museum was lowered to 1.1
>million.
>
>
> * "Since the Auschwitz State Museum lowered its death toll to one
>million, the total number of Holocaust victims should be reduced by about
>three million."
>
>
>Again, this is false. Few (if any) historians ever believed the Museum's four
>million figure, having arrived at their own estimates independently. The
>museum's inflated figures were never part of the estimated five to six
>million Jews killed in the Holocaust, so there is no need to revise this
>figure.
>
>
>Conclusion
>
>
>Holocaust deniers often misstate a historical fact to confuse and confound an
>otherwise naïve reader, and the "Four Million Variant"is no exception. Each
>piece of this denier puzzle is flawed, from the contention that the number
>killed at Auschwitz was protected as an "irrefutable fact" to the existence
>of some cabal that slanders all those who question this figure.
>
>
>Deniers often use the "Four Million Variant" as a stepping stone to leap from
>an apparent contradiction to the idea that the Holocaust was a hoax, again
>perpetrated by a conspiracy. They hope to discredit historians by making them
>seem inconsistent. If they can't keep their numbers straight, their reasoning
>goes, how can we say that their evidence for the Holocaust is credible? One
>must wonder which historians they speak of, as most have been remarkably
>consistent in their estimates of a million or so dead. [16], [17], [18]
>
>
>In short, all of the denier's blustering about the "Four Million Variant" is
>a specious attempt to envelope the reader into their web of deceit, and it
>can be discarded after the most rudimentary examination of published
>histories.