Indicator Levers

[Ext User(o0.rapture.0o@gmail.com)]

Hey guys, I've looked around but had a bit of trouble finding any
information about this.

I've been looking around at a Holden Vectra or Astra, and noticed that
they have the indicator lever on the left rather than the right (on the
right is normal in Aus/Japan, but left everywhere else in the world, or
so i believe).

Being used to it on the right, I'd naturally prefer it there but I was
wondering if anyone else has "converted" to using the left-hand lever
and if so, how long it took? Has anyone ever not bought a car because
of this?

Failing my ability to "convert" to the left-hand lever.. Does anyone
know if I would I have any hope of "converting" the car to the right?
:P

Brad

[Ext User(ShazWozza)]

o0.rapture.0o@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey guys, I've looked around but had a bit of trouble finding any
> information about this.
>
> I've been looking around at a Holden Vectra or Astra, and noticed that
> they have the indicator lever on the left rather than the right (on the
> right is normal in Aus/Japan, but left everywhere else in the world, or
> so i believe).
>
> Being used to it on the right, I'd naturally prefer it there but I was
> wondering if anyone else has "converted" to using the left-hand lever
> and if so, how long it took? Has anyone ever not bought a car because
> of this?
>
> Failing my ability to "convert" to the left-hand lever.. Does anyone
> know if I would I have any hope of "converting" the car to the right?
> :P
>
> Brad

It takes just a few drives to retrain your brain to work with left handed
indicators and it will become second nature. Its not a problem. Being left
handed I prefer the left handed setup (esp for operating the high beam
switch).

[Ext User(Michael C)]

"ShazWozza" <shaz_wozza@elementspring.com> wrote in message
> It takes just a few drives to retrain your brain to work with left handed
> indicators and it will become second nature. Its not a problem. Being left
> handed I prefer the left handed setup (esp for operating the high beam
> switch).

It wouldn't be much good if had a manual trans tho.
>
>

[Ext User(Toby Ponsenby)]

On 22 Mar 2006 04:33:35 -0800, o0.rapture.0o@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey guys, I've looked around but had a bit of trouble finding any
> information about this.
>
> I've been looking around at a Holden Vectra or Astra, and noticed that
> they have the indicator lever on the left rather than the right (on the
> right is normal in Aus/Japan, but left everywhere else in the world, or
> so i believe).
>
> Being used to it on the right, I'd naturally prefer it there but I was
> wondering if anyone else has "converted" to using the left-hand lever
> and if so, how long it took? Has anyone ever not bought a car because
> of this?
>
> Failing my ability to "convert" to the left-hand lever.. Does anyone
> know if I would I have any hope of "converting" the car to the right?
> :P
>
> Brad

Hmmm.

Expect ridicule.
Good subject to play with, though.
Expect the Erro car owners to 'support' their chariots, and the Jap
and Aus owners to support theirs.

You 'can' convert to the lever system really no matter what is there.
Donor car, wreckers, nightmares with turtle shells and wiring and all.
Time, money and aggravations is all it takes.
But my argument on the matter is why the fuck should we in .aus have
to?

Historically, we made signals about what the hell we were up to out of
the off-side window.
Naturally so did the Euros and the Yankees.
And we changed gears with the paw that didn't need to be involved with
indicating intention to stop or turn.
So, OK, we now have the stop thing figured with brake lights, but we
still need to indicate intention to turn.
And we can't fucking do that reasonably safely at the same time as we
change gears.
Never could and still can't.
The argument about self-cancelling indicators won't wash, either -
because sometimes that don't, or more regularly they re--set
themselves if you change your line into a corner no matter how half
smart the design engineers think they are.

And the .aus GovCo let in these abominations with INCORRECT control
systems years ago, and the rot hasn 't stopped since.

It'll be interesting to see whether the Chinese go on with the
near-side indicator switch in their cars copied/built under licence
from the likes of VW.
They may not have the historical precedent we had, but the GovCo there
just might get its act together and ban nearside indicator controls
as, dare I suggest it, a safety issue.

I hope they do, because I'll be able to buy a 'correct' set of
electrical stalks from the Chinese market for my T4:-)
Incidentally, I spend upwards of 10 hours a day in the thing, and I
know the LHS indicator is most definitely a safety problem, and most
certainly it's not because I mistake switches either, because I don't.
(Funnily enough, I shifted the 2Way radio and microphone so I could
use them with my right hand - think about it, you need to use
indicators and some controls like radio volume at the same time you
change gears. And yes, despite all the crap you hear form GovCo, you
can indeed let go of the recommended two-handed vice-like grip on the
steering wheel whenever you feel the need.

And then there's the business of what the hell do you do with the
wheel when you need to avoid something like an oncoming vehicle?
That's right, you need to turn left or right in a hurry.
Much easier to react if you have 'one' hand somewhere near the top of
the wheel than it is if you have one of both hands in the fuckwit
position as defined by GovCo.
Needless to say, the indicator ain't in the right position for
convenient use either way:-)
(Heard that accident free new York cabbies often say the secret is
that they get the hell away from other drivers who drive with both
hands on the wheel. It's what I call the two cocks position:-))

'course, indicators and wipers can't be at the top, because then we
couldn't see the speedo. And that's very important to being obedient
to the command and control culture we've negligently allowed GovCo to
push onto us.

But there is this.
Any 'manufacturer' that markets a 'world' car product that doesn't
include the option in the spare parts bin to change the disposition of
the switches you're on about is just an arrogant turd.
Simple enough to figure that.

Just a guide.
I rather like my Van.
I think it's a decent design and well fit for purpose.
It's even relatively fast, FFS.
People very often wander over and ask me whether it's a good thing and
often say they're considering buying one.
I NEVER suggest to them they should.
I NEVER recommend the thing to anyone who's intending to drive a van
for a living.
Totally non-committal is what I am in the F toF recommendation
stakes.
It's not the spares prices, which are reasonable for anything that
breaks easily.
It's not even the difficulty in finding someone to work on the thing
that doesn't rip me blind, which I've managed to do.
It's VW arrogance that makes it so.
Because I can't change the control stalks to anything resembling the
right configuration without butchering the machine.
It there wasn't an air-bag and monster fines involved for buggering
about with it, there'd be an Toyota MX83 system in there
double-quicktime:-)


Think I'll have a rest now.


--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

[Ext User(ShazWozza)]

Michael C wrote:

> "ShazWozza" <shaz_wozza@elementspring.com> wrote in message
>> It takes just a few drives to retrain your brain to work with left handed
>> indicators and it will become second nature. Its not a problem. Being
>> left handed I prefer the left handed setup (esp for operating the high
>> beam switch).
>
> It wouldn't be much good if had a manual trans tho.
>>
>>
Actually mine is a manual. No problems at all.

[Ext User(Michael C)]

"ShazWozza" <shaz_wozza@elementspring.com> wrote in message
>> It wouldn't be much good if had a manual trans tho.
>>>
>>>
> Actually mine is a manual. No problems at all.

IMO it would be a pita. I keep my left hand near the gearlever and my right
on the wheel near the lever so that I don't have to move either much.

Michael

[Ext User(Clockmeister)]

<o0.rapture.0o@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1143030815.457549.300900@u72g2000cwu.googlegr oups.com...
> Hey guys, I've looked around but had a bit of trouble finding any
> information about this.
>
> I've been looking around at a Holden Vectra or Astra, and noticed that
> they have the indicator lever on the left rather than the right (on the
> right is normal in Aus/Japan, but left everywhere else in the world, or
> so i believe).

The new models are come as right side as default. They can be changed by
poking in a new stick and reprogramming the CIM configuration.

> Being used to it on the right, I'd naturally prefer it there but I was
> wondering if anyone else has "converted" to using the left-hand lever
> and if so, how long it took?

My other half took about a day to convert. Because I drive cars with right
and left mounted indicator stalks all the time I switch over subconsciously
without thinking about it depending on what I am driving.

Has anyone ever not bought a car because
> of this?

It's rediculous to not buy a car for such a reason.

> Failing my ability to "convert" to the left-hand lever.. Does anyone
> know if I would I have any hope of "converting" the car to the right?

Genuine changeover kits are available from your Holden dealer for older
model Astra's and Vectra's.

[Ext User(Clockmeister)]

"Michael C" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:442153dd$0$7600$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
> "ShazWozza" <shaz_wozza@elementspring.com> wrote in message
>>> It wouldn't be much good if had a manual trans tho.
>>>>
>>>>
>> Actually mine is a manual. No problems at all.
>
> IMO it would be a pita. I keep my left hand near the gearlever and my
> right on the wheel near the lever so that I don't have to move either
> much.
>

Pita? Don't be rediculous.

[Ext User(Clockmeister)]

"Toby Ponsenby" <toby@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:aqo1zbbjf07o$.14qbux40mvz3t.dlg@40tude.net...
> On 22 Mar 2006 04:33:35 -0800, o0.rapture.0o@gmail.com wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> Think I'll have a rest now.
>

No please, go on... and on... and on... and on...

[Ext User(DalienX)]

Michael C wrote:

>
> IMO it would be a pita. I keep my left hand near the gearlever and my
> right on the wheel near the lever so that I don't have to move either
> much.
>
> Michael

Its quite easy, my first car was an escort. it had left hand indicators
and was manual.
aproching a corner, flip the indicators on, break, drop down a gear, go
through corner.

[Ext User(Patrick Young)]

Toby Ponsenby wrote:

> Expect ridicule.
> Good subject to play with, though.
> Expect the Erro car owners to 'support' their chariots, and the Jap
> and Aus owners to support theirs.
>
> You 'can' convert to the lever system really no matter what is there.
> Donor car, wreckers, nightmares with turtle shells and wiring and all.
> Time, money and aggravations is all it takes.
> But my argument on the matter is why the fuck should we in .aus have
> to?

Good point.

> Historically, we made signals about what the hell we were up to out of
> the off-side window.
> Naturally so did the Euros and the Yankees.
> And we changed gears with the paw that didn't need to be involved with
> indicating intention to stop or turn.
> So, OK, we now have the stop thing figured with brake lights, but we
> still need to indicate intention to turn.
> And we can't fucking do that reasonably safely at the same time as we
> change gears.
> Never could and still can't.
> The argument about self-cancelling indicators won't wash, either -
> because sometimes that don't, or more regularly they re--set
> themselves if you change your line into a corner no matter how half
> smart the design engineers think they are.
>
> And the .aus GovCo let in these abominations with INCORRECT control
> systems years ago, and the rot hasn 't stopped since.
>
> It'll be interesting to see whether the Chinese go on with the
> near-side indicator switch in their cars copied/built under licence
> from the likes of VW.
> They may not have the historical precedent we had, but the GovCo there
> just might get its act together and ban nearside indicator controls
> as, dare I suggest it, a safety issue.
>
> I hope they do, because I'll be able to buy a 'correct' set of
> electrical stalks from the Chinese market for my T4:-)
> Incidentally, I spend upwards of 10 hours a day in the thing, and I
> know the LHS indicator is most definitely a safety problem, and most
> certainly it's not because I mistake switches either, because I don't.
> (Funnily enough, I shifted the 2Way radio and microphone so I could
> use them with my right hand - think about it, you need to use
> indicators and some controls like radio volume at the same time you
> change gears. And yes, despite all the crap you hear form GovCo, you
> can indeed let go of the recommended two-handed vice-like grip on the
> steering wheel whenever you feel the need.
>
> And then there's the business of what the hell do you do with the
> wheel when you need to avoid something like an oncoming vehicle?
> That's right, you need to turn left or right in a hurry.
> Much easier to react if you have 'one' hand somewhere near the top of
> the wheel than it is if you have one of both hands in the fuckwit
> position as defined by GovCo.
> Needless to say, the indicator ain't in the right position for
> convenient use either way:-)
> (Heard that accident free new York cabbies often say the secret is
> that they get the hell away from other drivers who drive with both
> hands on the wheel. It's what I call the two cocks position:-))
>
> 'course, indicators and wipers can't be at the top, because then we
> couldn't see the speedo. And that's very important to being obedient
> to the command and control culture we've negligently allowed GovCo to
> push onto us.
>
> But there is this.
> Any 'manufacturer' that markets a 'world' car product that doesn't
> include the option in the spare parts bin to change the disposition of
> the switches you're on about is just an arrogant turd.
> Simple enough to figure that.
>
> Just a guide.
> I rather like my Van.
> I think it's a decent design and well fit for purpose.
> It's even relatively fast, FFS.
> People very often wander over and ask me whether it's a good thing and
> often say they're considering buying one.
> I NEVER suggest to them they should.
> I NEVER recommend the thing to anyone who's intending to drive a van
> for a living.
> Totally non-committal is what I am in the F toF recommendation
> stakes.
> It's not the spares prices, which are reasonable for anything that
> breaks easily.
> It's not even the difficulty in finding someone to work on the thing
> that doesn't rip me blind, which I've managed to do.
> It's VW arrogance that makes it so.
> Because I can't change the control stalks to anything resembling the
> right configuration without butchering the machine.
> It there wasn't an air-bag and monster fines involved for buggering
> about with it, there'd be an Toyota MX83 system in there
> double-quicktime:-)
>
>
> Think I'll have a rest now.

Phew, quite a Toby post. Have a valium with that?

--
--------------------------------------------
4x4 Hilux Auto Service Centre,
BP 106 Timbuktu,
Mali (West Africa)
Tel: 292 91 52
Specialising in turbo diesel and R290 aircon
--------------------------------------------

[Ext User(Clockmeister)]

"Patrick Young" <patrick@hilux.ace.unsw.EDU.AU> wrote in message
news:I4dUf.13931$dy4.13147@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Toby Ponsenby wrote:
>
>> Expect ridicule.
>> Good subject to play with, though.
>> Expect the Erro car owners to 'support' their chariots, and the Jap
>> and Aus owners to support theirs.
>>
>> You 'can' convert to the lever system really no matter what is there.
>> Donor car, wreckers, nightmares with turtle shells and wiring and all.
>> Time, money and aggravations is all it takes.
>> But my argument on the matter is why the fuck should we in .aus have
>> to?
>
> Good point.

He has no point. If you don't like it you are welcome to buy another car.

[Ext User(Toby Ponsenby)]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:30:47 +0800, Clockmeister wrote:

> "Patrick Young" <patrick@hilux.ace.unsw.EDU.AU> wrote in message
> news:I4dUf.13931$dy4.13147@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> Toby Ponsenby wrote:
>>
>>> Expect ridicule.
>>> Good subject to play with, though.
>>> Expect the Erro car owners to 'support' their chariots, and the Jap
>>> and Aus owners to support theirs.
>>>
>>> You 'can' convert to the lever system really no matter what is there.
>>> Donor car, wreckers, nightmares with turtle shells and wiring and all.
>>> Time, money and aggravations is all it takes.
>>> But my argument on the matter is why the fuck should we in .aus have
>>> to?
>>
>> Good point.
>
> He has no point. If you don't like it you are welcome to buy another car.

Buy a complete car because manufacturers won't option in a few bits
and pieces for the sake of safety on the one that otherwise conforms
to your requirements ?
It's not like the bits are an engine or anything.

Fuck you have an immense intellect, Clocky.
--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

[Ext User(Toby Ponsenby)]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:05:17 +0800, Clockmeister wrote:

> <o0.rapture.0o@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1143030815.457549.300900@u72g2000cwu.googlegr oups.com...
>> Hey guys, I've looked around but had a bit of trouble finding any
>> information about this.
>>
>> I've been looking around at a Holden Vectra or Astra, and noticed that
>> they have the indicator lever on the left rather than the right (on the
>> right is normal in Aus/Japan, but left everywhere else in the world, or
>> so i believe).
>
> The new models are come as right side as default. They can be changed by
> poking in a new stick and reprogramming the CIM configuration.
>
>> Being used to it on the right, I'd naturally prefer it there but I was
>> wondering if anyone else has "converted" to using the left-hand lever
>> and if so, how long it took?
>
> My other half took about a day to convert. Because I drive cars with right
> and left mounted indicator stalks all the time I switch over subconsciously
> without thinking about it depending on what I am driving.
>
> Has anyone ever not bought a car because
>> of this?
>
> It's rediculous to not buy a car for such a reason.
>
>> Failing my ability to "convert" to the left-hand lever.. Does anyone
>> know if I would I have any hope of "converting" the car to the right?
>
> Genuine changeover kits are available from your Holden dealer for older
> model Astra's and Vectra's.

Some light at the end of the tunnel.
So which GovCo insisted GM provide the options?

Did you get to figure that out?

--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

[Ext User(Marco)]

Indicators on the left, honestly, are not that big a deal. Slightly
less convenient than those on the right, maybe, but it doesn't take a
lot of getting used to. About all you lose is the ability to indicate
and change gears in a manual car at precisely the same moment.
Solution? Do one then the other.

I went from indicators on the right in my previous Japanese-designed
car to indicators on the left in my current Euro-designed car and it
took maybe a day or two at best before I didn't have to think about
what I was doing.

[Ext User(Kev)]

Michael C wrote:
> "ShazWozza" <shaz_wozza@elementspring.com> wrote in message
>
>>It takes just a few drives to retrain your brain to work with left handed
>>indicators and it will become second nature. Its not a problem. Being left
>>handed I prefer the left handed setup (esp for operating the high beam
>>switch).
>
>
> It wouldn't be much good if had a manual trans tho.
>
>>
>
>

every truck on the road not made in Japan has it on the left
and it's never a problem even when changing gears(a lot more than in a car)

it's just something you get used to
and just to see how good you are
try driving a truck all day then get into your Aussie car and drive it home

sometimes when I'm a bit tired I indicate with the wipers
:)

Kev

[Ext User(Noddy)]

<o0.rapture.0o@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1143030815.457549.300900@u72g2000cwu.googlegr oups.com...

> Failing my ability to "convert" to the left-hand lever.. Does anyone
> know if I would I have any hope of "converting" the car to the right?
> :P

It's not a big deal.

My Jeep has the indicator stalk on the left, and I was used to it being
there within an hour.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Ben Thomas)]

Michael C wrote:
> "ShazWozza" <shaz_wozza@elementspring.com> wrote in message
>
>>It takes just a few drives to retrain your brain to work with left handed
>>indicators and it will become second nature. Its not a problem. Being left
>>handed I prefer the left handed setup (esp for operating the high beam
>>switch).
>
>
> It wouldn't be much good if had a manual trans tho.
>
>>
>
>

It's excellent because it forces you to indicate early (as you are
supposed to do) then change gears before a corner. If you are indicating
as you turn the wheel then you are a cunt.

--
Ben Thomas, Melbourne, Australia

"Red Bull tastes like canned carbonated concentrated evil."

[Ext User(Rod)]

In article <1143030815.457549.300900@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups. com>,
o0.rapture.0o@gmail.com says...

> Being used to it on the right, I'd naturally prefer it there but I was
> wondering if anyone else has "converted" to using the left-hand lever
> and if so, how long it took? Has anyone ever not bought a car because
> of this?

My first car which I learned exclusively in was a British Escort (75
model if I recall) and it had the stalk on the left.

My next car was a Cortina, stalk on the right. Took about 2 minutes
to convert the automatic process to change indicator habits from
left to right.

--
Cheers,
Rod.

[Ext User(Toby Ponsenby)]

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:05:02 GMT, Ben Thomas wrote:

> Michael C wrote:
>> "ShazWozza" <shaz_wozza@elementspring.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>It takes just a few drives to retrain your brain to work with left handed
>>>indicators and it will become second nature. Its not a problem. Being left
>>>handed I prefer the left handed setup (esp for operating the high beam
>>>switch).
>>
>>
>> It wouldn't be much good if had a manual trans tho.
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> It's excellent because it forces you to indicate early (as you are
> supposed to do) then change gears before a corner. If you are indicating
> as you turn the wheel then you are a cunt.

Evident that there are more cunts than things other than cunts out
there.
How can that be?
--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur