Another supposed "IT shortage" immigration the sellout "solution" yet again.

[Ext User(Crouching Nun, Hidden Cucumber)]

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:02:00 +1100, B J Foster
<bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Crouching Nun, Hidden Cucumber wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:44:15 +1100, rifty@tpg.com.au (Rifty)
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>B J Foster <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>We need *less* government and in particular we need less
>>>>of John Howard and his socialist treasurer.
>>>
>>>Out of curiosity, why do you call Costello a socialist? Mediocre,
>>>supercilious and evasive for sure, but how does the socialist tag fit
>>>him?
>>
>>
>> Here's the biggest taxing, biggest spending, biggest welfare
>> outlaying Tresurer in the history of Federation.A bloke that
>> thinks a welfare payment is a tax cut and whom is planning
>> to buy, via the future fund, large chunks of the Australian
>> sharemarket AND let the government exercise shareholder
>> rights gained through those purchases.
>>
>> Big government, big taxing, big spending, big welfare and
>> now bringing a larger chunk of the economy under government
>> ownership and influence.Let alone the regulatory explosion
>> that has happened under this tosser.
>>
>> What else would you call it.
>
>Well said - couldn't have said it better.
>
>In fact, I'm thinking of founding the Australian Communist Party - and
>when the pendulum swings, as treasurer, I'll reintroduce capitalism. LOL

Roflol.

But it gets worse!

From:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/alan-kohler/four-stupidities-of-the-tax-system/2005/12/16/1134703608839.html

"The most ridiculous fact I have heard this year was in a
presentation to a forum on tax reform run by the Australian
Tax Research Foundation two weeks ago by former Treasury
official Greg Smith. He said that of the $47 billion in
underlying cash budget surpluses accumulated since 1996, $39
billion, or 83 per cent, came from taxes collected from
super funds."

So on top of all this big government horseshit masquerading
around as responsible economic management, we have the
government building structurally unsustainable surpluses by
pinching private savings and transering them into public
savings.

Great - not only does Howard thinks he's better at spending
ever increasing amounts of your money than you are by taxing
you, taking his cut and then giving it back through welfare
churn, he also thinks that his government is a preferable
mechanism to increase national savings than private
investment!

This mob has become arseclown central.

[Ext User(tjlim)]

"Crouching Nun, Hidden Cucumber" <crouching_nun@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
message news:m3b2u1pvdkikmkkbgd5s3mo2u7oje0kk1r@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:02:00 +1100, B J Foster
> <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Crouching Nun, Hidden Cucumber wrote:
>>> On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:44:15 +1100, rifty@tpg.com.au (Rifty)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>B J Foster <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>We need *less* government and in particular we need less
>>>>>of John Howard and his socialist treasurer.
>>>>
>>>>Out of curiosity, why do you call Costello a socialist? Mediocre,
>>>>supercilious and evasive for sure, but how does the socialist tag fit
>>>>him?
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's the biggest taxing, biggest spending, biggest welfare
>>> outlaying Tresurer in the history of Federation.A bloke that
>>> thinks a welfare payment is a tax cut and whom is planning
>>> to buy, via the future fund, large chunks of the Australian
>>> sharemarket AND let the government exercise shareholder
>>> rights gained through those purchases.
>>>
>>> Big government, big taxing, big spending, big welfare and
>>> now bringing a larger chunk of the economy under government
>>> ownership and influence.Let alone the regulatory explosion
>>> that has happened under this tosser.
>>>
>>> What else would you call it.
>>
>>Well said - couldn't have said it better.
>>
>>In fact, I'm thinking of founding the Australian Communist Party - and
>>when the pendulum swings, as treasurer, I'll reintroduce capitalism. LOL
>
> Roflol.
>
> But it gets worse!
>
> From:
> http://www.theage.com.au/news/alan-kohler/four-stupidities-of-the-tax-system/2005/12/16/1134703608839.html
>
> "The most ridiculous fact I have heard this year was in a
> presentation to a forum on tax reform run by the Australian
> Tax Research Foundation two weeks ago by former Treasury
> official Greg Smith. He said that of the $47 billion in
> underlying cash budget surpluses accumulated since 1996, $39
> billion, or 83 per cent, came from taxes collected from
> super funds."
>
> So on top of all this big government horseshit masquerading
> around as responsible economic management, we have the
> government building structurally unsustainable surpluses by
> pinching private savings and transering them into public
> savings.
>
> Great - not only does Howard thinks he's better at spending
> ever increasing amounts of your money than you are by taxing
> you, taking his cut and then giving it back through welfare
> churn, he also thinks that his government is a preferable
> mechanism to increase national savings than private
> investment!
>
> This mob has become arseclown central.
This is indeed another view worth thinking about

[Ext User(B J Foster)]

Crouching Nun, Hidden Cucumber wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:02:00 +1100, B J Foster
> <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Crouching Nun, Hidden Cucumber wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:44:15 +1100, rifty@tpg.com.au (Rifty)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>B J Foster <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>We need *less* government and in particular we need less
>>>>>of John Howard and his socialist treasurer.
>>>>
>>>>Out of curiosity, why do you call Costello a socialist? Mediocre,
>>>>supercilious and evasive for sure, but how does the socialist tag fit
>>>>him?
>>>
>>>
>>>Here's the biggest taxing, biggest spending, biggest welfare
>>>outlaying Tresurer in the history of Federation.A bloke that
>>>thinks a welfare payment is a tax cut and whom is planning
>>>to buy, via the future fund, large chunks of the Australian
>>>sharemarket AND let the government exercise shareholder
>>>rights gained through those purchases.
>>>
>>>Big government, big taxing, big spending, big welfare and
>>>now bringing a larger chunk of the economy under government
>>>ownership and influence.Let alone the regulatory explosion
>>>that has happened under this tosser.
>>>
>>>What else would you call it.
>>
>>Well said - couldn't have said it better.
>>
>>In fact, I'm thinking of founding the Australian Communist Party - and
>>when the pendulum swings, as treasurer, I'll reintroduce capitalism. LOL
>
>
> Roflol.
>
> But it gets worse!
>
> From:
> http://www.theage.com.au/news/alan-kohler/four-stupidities-of-the-tax-system/2005/12/16/1134703608839.html
>
> "The most ridiculous fact I have heard this year was in a
> presentation to a forum on tax reform run by the Australian
> Tax Research Foundation two weeks ago by former Treasury
> official Greg Smith. He said that of the $47 billion in
> underlying cash budget surpluses accumulated since 1996, $39
> billion, or 83 per cent, came from taxes collected from
> super funds."
>
> So on top of all this big government horseshit masquerading
> around as responsible economic management, we have the
> government building structurally unsustainable surpluses by
> pinching private savings and transering them into public
> savings.
>
> Great - not only does Howard thinks he's better at spending
> ever increasing amounts of your money than you are by taxing
> you, taking his cut and then giving it back through welfare
> churn, he also thinks that his government is a preferable
> mechanism to increase national savings than private
> investment!
>
> This mob has become arseclown central.

Microeconomic reform, compulsory super (*private* savings), workplace
reform and privatisation were all introduced introduced by...
....Paul Keating

IOW, the "superior economic managers" is riding on the coattails of the
long-term vision and reform by Paul Keating.

[Ext User(Crouching Nun, Hidden Cucumber)]

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:22:56 +1100, B J Foster
<bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Crouching Nun, Hidden Cucumber wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:02:00 +1100, B J Foster
>> <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Crouching Nun, Hidden Cucumber wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:44:15 +1100, rifty@tpg.com.au (Rifty)
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>B J Foster <bjfoster@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>We need *less* government and in particular we need less
>>>>>>of John Howard and his socialist treasurer.
>>>>>
>>>>>Out of curiosity, why do you call Costello a socialist? Mediocre,
>>>>>supercilious and evasive for sure, but how does the socialist tag fit
>>>>>him?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Here's the biggest taxing, biggest spending, biggest welfare
>>>>outlaying Tresurer in the history of Federation.A bloke that
>>>>thinks a welfare payment is a tax cut and whom is planning
>>>>to buy, via the future fund, large chunks of the Australian
>>>>sharemarket AND let the government exercise shareholder
>>>>rights gained through those purchases.
>>>>
>>>>Big government, big taxing, big spending, big welfare and
>>>>now bringing a larger chunk of the economy under government
>>>>ownership and influence.Let alone the regulatory explosion
>>>>that has happened under this tosser.
>>>>
>>>>What else would you call it.
>>>
>>>Well said - couldn't have said it better.
>>>
>>>In fact, I'm thinking of founding the Australian Communist Party - and
>>>when the pendulum swings, as treasurer, I'll reintroduce capitalism. LOL
>>
>>
>> Roflol.
>>
>> But it gets worse!
>>
>> From:
>> http://www.theage.com.au/news/alan-kohler/four-stupidities-of-the-tax-system/2005/12/16/1134703608839.html
>>
>> "The most ridiculous fact I have heard this year was in a
>> presentation to a forum on tax reform run by the Australian
>> Tax Research Foundation two weeks ago by former Treasury
>> official Greg Smith. He said that of the $47 billion in
>> underlying cash budget surpluses accumulated since 1996, $39
>> billion, or 83 per cent, came from taxes collected from
>> super funds."
>>
>> So on top of all this big government horseshit masquerading
>> around as responsible economic management, we have the
>> government building structurally unsustainable surpluses by
>> pinching private savings and transering them into public
>> savings.
>>
>> Great - not only does Howard thinks he's better at spending
>> ever increasing amounts of your money than you are by taxing
>> you, taking his cut and then giving it back through welfare
>> churn, he also thinks that his government is a preferable
>> mechanism to increase national savings than private
>> investment!
>>
>> This mob has become arseclown central.
>
>Microeconomic reform, compulsory super (*private* savings), workplace
>reform and privatisation were all introduced introduced by...
>...Paul Keating
>
>IOW, the "superior economic managers" is riding on the coattails of the
>long-term vision and reform by Paul Keating.

You're telling me the sun rises in the east.

The Hawke/Keating/Walsh program has nearly run its
course.The economy has filled back up with shit and its
comming out in the productivity growth numbers.If you
replace the massaged hedonics figures and a few other
over-abused methodologies, inflation and GDP growth arent a
shit hot set of figures either.That's why the Reserve and
any serious economist that doesnt work for ticket clippers
are worried.Its certainly not the end of the world, but its
a fucked up position to be in when we're staring down the
barrel of labour shortages, while in the middle of a
commodity boom AND facing the end of an era of unusally low
global interest rates.Let alone a sharemarket that will be
chasing yields because of demographics and the inevitable
rebalancing of housing stock in the face of more normal
pricing of debt.

Anyway, I think we're both preaching to the converted here.

This government has been little more than a decade of missed
opportunities and counterproductive long term economic
policy.

It always comes out in the wash.Last time it took 25 years
to do that.This time, it wont take that long.

[Ext User(Eunometic)]

The Australian "Financial Review" of Tuesday 10th January carries and
article titled:
"Reality Bytes as IT jobes go Begging" by Mark Jones.

Basicially it says that large governments departments and companies are
struggling to find IT experts and this is "threatening" a 42 billion
dollar spending boom. (Interesting use of the word threatening).
Telstra is one of those companies: it wants to roll out 4G network by
2013.

Australians may remember the last time we had a recesion in IT (in part
becuase of a bursting of the dot.com speculation bubble but also
becuase of a general tightening of lavish, rash and ineffective IT
spending that reached 30% of company expenditure). Large numbers of
immigrant IT workers were brought it both before, during and after the
IT 'step back'. To an extent the lavish speculation was actually
fueled by the huge influx of IT immigrants the allowed the maket to
overheat.

As a result a great many IT workers found themselves unemployed and
working on the taxi ranks with the often mediocre immigrant IT workers.
(the bulk of IT workers weren't geniouses developing new concepts)

Wages, conditions and job security dropped dramatically. Many people
lost homes or dreams of a comfortable retirement.

Why aren't we offering training opportunities and education access to
our Australian people and children now?

Firstly Australian companies having become relient on immigration and
'slack' are not offering training opportunities, scholarships or
release to part time study to their staff nor are they demanding more
graduates or IT trained people.

Secondly Australian children and parents are fearfull and cynical that
the Government will again "glut" the IT market as soon as the
opportunity arises.

Thirdly there is a push to immigration for its own sake or the sake of
providing ever expanding markets for big building companies or
reatailers. (the Australian Buisiness Council doesn't just push
'industrial relations reform;it pushes immigration)

We shouldn;t allow this 'knee jerk' immigration to happen.

Once the addiction to 'cheap' and 'instant skills' is broken
government,companies,universities,IT trainers will once again be able
to develop not only a steady stream of educated employees but a stream
of switched on employees that will advance the long term interests of
their companies.

In this way the disconect and managerial and educational deskilling
that has been created by 'knee jerk' IT immigration will be broken.

We owe good interesting jobs, good wages and good job stabillity to our
own Australian children and people.

Pandering to the short term interests of companies betrays the greater
interest we have in Australians as individuals. It's the people that
count: not abstract numbers that only loosly repreennt aspects of the
economy.

[Ext User(bishop13291@yahoo.com)]

canada is much worse. they just let immigrants in to create a building
boom to give people short-term jobs. never mind that half the
immigrants are terrorists. in the end , it is all about getting votes.
immigrants vote for the govt that let them in. we should start a trend
where everyone against immigration should wear a orange ribbon.

[Ext User(B J Foster)]

Eunometic wrote:

....
>
> We owe good interesting jobs, good wages and good job stabillity to our
> own Australian children and people.
>

Peter Costello, 1995, on Keating:
"This is a day on which the Prime Minister should hang his head in
shame. This is a day when he should apologise. This is a day on which
this will be etched into his political tombstone: the worst current
account deficit from the worst Prime Minister in Australian history".


Mark Latham, 2003, on Costello:
"Last week's national accounts figures were a wake-up call for the
Treasurer—a wake-up call indeed. Some time ago I explained to the House
how the dog was asleep on the porch. Let us see if the national accounts
can wake him up. There was growth in the June quarter of 0.1 per cent,
which is the second lowest quarterly figure in 10 years; there was
growth for the financial year of just two per cent, which is half the
Treasurer's forecast; there was a productivity rate of negative 0.1 per
cent for the quarter and negative 0.2 per cent for the financial year;
there was a current account deficit of $13 billion, which is a record
6.7 per cent of GDP; and there was a household savings ratio of negative
1.2, which is the lowest on record. What does negative 1.2 mean? It
means dissaving—that the Australian people are engaged in dissaving
rather than policies produced by the Treasurer to build up Australia's
national savings. Indeed, it is the third quarter in a row where the
household savings rate has been negative, where the Australian people
have been dissaving under the weight of the financial burdens of this
government.

....

How can we take seriously the idea of the Treasurer criticising people
about policy inconsistencies when he is a guy who started his political
career as a Labor Baptist and ended up a Liberal Anglican?

I have heard of people in politics who have changed their party and I
have heard of people who have changed their religion, but I have never
heard of anyone who has changed both his political party and his
religion. The Treasurer has gone the daily double in the sell-out
stakes. You talk about the road to Damascus; someone who changed his
political party and his religion has gone to a ridiculous extreme. In
fact, this Treasurer, in terms of consistency, makes Billy Hughes look
like a loyalist. A change of political party and a change of religion,
and he has the hide to come in here and talk about consistency. The
truth is that the Treasurer is the lost soul of the Liberal Party: he
does not know where he has been and he does not know where he is going.
He is smug and complacent. His economics are all smirk and mirrors. We
need to wake him up. We need to force him into adopting a better
economic policy and into giving the Australian families and workers a
better deal. (Time expired)"
(MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE: Howard Government: Economic Performance)
(Hansard, Sep 2003)

Peter Costello's record as treasurer, summary:
1. Negative productivity growth
2. Record current account deficit
3. Foreign debt under Costello, from $193b to $359b (2003)
(from $10,500 per capita to $18,000)
4. Record household debt: from $290b to $660b
5. Record trade deficit
6. Record credit card debt
7. Record low proportion of 1st home buyers (from 23% to <14%)
8. Record low home affordability
9. Failure to take the RBA's advice to regulate property seminars/scammers
10. Income tax up $5000 per household

[Ext User(B J Foster)]

B J Foster wrote:

> Eunometic wrote:
>
> ...
>
>>
>> We owe good interesting jobs, good wages and good job stabillity to our
>> own Australian children and people.
>>
>

....

Summary:
http://www.rba.gov.au/ChartPack/output_expenditure_activity_fincon.pdf

[Ext User(Eunometic)]

B J Foster wrote:
> Eunometic wrote:
)
>
> Peter Costello's record as treasurer, summary:
> 1. Negative productivity growth
> 2. Record current account deficit
> 3. Foreign debt under Costello, from $193b to $359b (2003)
> (from $10,500 per capita to $18,000)
> 4. Record household debt: from $290b to $660b
> 5. Record trade deficit
> 6. Record credit card debt
> 7. Record low proportion of 1st home buyers (from 23% to <14%)
> 8. Record low home affordability
> 9. Failure to take the RBA's advice to regulate property seminars/scammers
> 10. Income tax up $5000 per household

While I concur with your assesment it would seem that the oppostion is
in disarray for it not to succede in the face of that. It may take
another decae years for half the people who bitterly remember Paul
Keating and his 25% interest rates.

I've basically lost faith in both the ALP and Liberal parties; they are
beholden to special interests. Perhaps I can influence them a little
but their destruction and with it the agglomeration of special
interests that has grown around the, is something to be hoped for.

[Ext User(B J Foster)]

Eunometic wrote:

> B J Foster wrote:
>
>>Eunometic wrote:
>
> )
>
>>Peter Costello's record as treasurer, summary:
>>1. Negative productivity growth
>>2. Record current account deficit
>>3. Foreign debt under Costello, from $193b to $359b (2003)
>>(from $10,500 per capita to $18,000)
>>4. Record household debt: from $290b to $660b
>>5. Record trade deficit
>>6. Record credit card debt
>>7. Record low proportion of 1st home buyers (from 23% to <14%)
>>8. Record low home affordability
>>9. Failure to take the RBA's advice to regulate property seminars/scammers
>>10. Income tax up $5000 per household
>
>
> While I concur with your assesment it would seem that the oppostion is
> in disarray for it not to succede in the face of that. It may take
> another decae years for half the people who bitterly remember Paul
> Keating and his 25% interest rates.

http://www.rba.gov.au/ChartPack/output_expenditure_activity_fincon.pdf#page=3
Page 3, bottom right:
Interest paid as a percentage of household income is at a record high
*and* record numbers of families have two, not one breadwinner

>
> I've basically lost faith in both the ALP and Liberal parties; they are
> beholden to special interests. Perhaps I can influence them a little
> but their destruction and with it the agglomeration of special
> interests that has grown around the, is something to be hoped for.
>

"Unemployment in the (IT) industry has been at record highs in the five
years since the dotcom bubble burst in 2000, yet IT workers continue to
make up the biggest single skills group under the skills migration policy.

Labor education and training spokeswoman Jenny Macklin says increased
investment in local training programs was an option the Government had
been unwilling to pursue.

'The Howard Government has dropped the ball on training Australians', Ms
Macklin said. 'They are over-relying on an imported skills quick-fix.
Labor's priority is clear - train Australians first and train them now'.

She said an alarming OECD report in 2005 on education had showed
Australia was the only nation to have cut public investment in tertiary
education since 1995.

The Immigration Department said it relied on survey information from the
Department of Employment and Workplace Relations to decide where skilled
migrants were most needed in the economy. A spokesman said it had
received no data suggesting a vast oversupply of IT graduates seeking
work in Australia".
(http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,17773896%5E15317%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html)

Fairly typical public servant's response. Did they *seek* any data?
Apart from the fact that it's a lie - unemployment in the sector reached
30% in 2002/2003 and *still* they continued to import temporary
visaholders at record levels.

[Ext User(Harry Snape)]

Eunometic wrote:
> B J Foster wrote:
>
>>Eunometic wrote:
>
> )
>
>>Peter Costello's record as treasurer, summary:
>>1. Negative productivity growth
>>2. Record current account deficit
>>3. Foreign debt under Costello, from $193b to $359b (2003)
>>(from $10,500 per capita to $18,000)
>>4. Record household debt: from $290b to $660b
>>5. Record trade deficit
>>6. Record credit card debt
>>7. Record low proportion of 1st home buyers (from 23% to <14%)
>>8. Record low home affordability
>>9. Failure to take the RBA's advice to regulate property seminars/scammers
>>10. Income tax up $5000 per household
>
>
> While I concur with your assesment it would seem that the oppostion is
> in disarray for it not to succede in the face of that. It may take
> another decae years for half the people who bitterly remember Paul
> Keating and his 25% interest rates.

Nope, Paul was bad, but he never had 25% interest rates.

> I've basically lost faith in both the ALP and Liberal parties; they are
> beholden to special interests. Perhaps I can influence them a little
> but their destruction and with it the agglomeration of special
> interests that has grown around the, is something to be hoped for.
>

[Ext User(ralph)]

On 12 Jan 2006 02:51:38 -0800, bishop13291@yahoo.com wrote:

>canada is much worse. they just let immigrants in to create a building
>boom to give people short-term jobs. never mind that half the
>immigrants are terrorists. in the end , it is all about getting votes.
>immigrants vote for the govt that let them in. we should start a trend
>where everyone against immigration should wear a orange ribbon.

That's not a good colour choice against your brown shirt.

[Ext User(Eunometic)]

Harry Snape wrote:
> Eunometic wrote:
> > B J Foster wrote:
> >
> >>Eunometic wrote:
> > While I concur with your assesment it would seem that the oppostion is
> > in disarray for it not to succede in the face of that. It may take
> > another decae years for half the people who bitterly remember Paul
> > Keating and his 25% interest rates.
>
> Nope, Paul was bad, but he never had 25% interest rates.

I think home loan rates approached 20% and business interest rates
approached 25%. I was in manufacturing at the time and thought that
this was insane. We're a high labour cost country and need to have low
interest rates to justify investment in automation and plant. I had
collegues in Switzerland who though 6% was high.

[Ext User(John Wright)]

<bishop13291@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1137063098.420577.314100@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
> canada is much worse. they just let immigrants in to create a building
> boom to give people short-term jobs. never mind that half the
> immigrants are terrorists. in the end , it is all about getting votes.
> immigrants vote for the govt that let them in. we should start a trend
> where everyone against immigration should wear a orange ribbon.
>

I wonder what colour ribbon would have been the right one that the natives
could have worn - that would have stopped the early English speaking
immigrants coming into Canada ...

Regards - JW

[Ext User(Eunometic)]

B J Foster wrote:
> Eunometic wrote:
>
> > B J Foster wrote:
> >
> >>Eunometic wrote:
> >
> > )
> >
> >>Peter Costello's record as treasurer, summary:
> >>1. Negative productivity growth
> >>2. Record current account deficit
> >>3. Foreign debt under Costello, from $193b to $359b (2003)
> >>(from $10,500 per capita to $18,000)
> >>4. Record household debt: from $290b to $660b
> >>5. Record trade deficit
> >>6. Record credit card debt
> >>7. Record low proportion of 1st home buyers (from 23% to <14%)
> >>8. Record low home affordability
> >>9. Failure to take the RBA's advice to regulate property seminars/scammers
> >>10. Income tax up $5000 per household
> >
> >
> > While I concur with your assesment it would seem that the oppostion is
> > in disarray for it not to succede in the face of that. It may take
> > another decae years for half the people who bitterly remember Paul
> > Keating and his 25% interest rates.
>
> http://www.rba.gov.au/ChartPack/output_expenditure_activity_fincon.pdf#page=3
> Page 3, bottom right:
> Interest paid as a percentage of household income is at a record high
> *and* record numbers of families have two, not one breadwinner
>
> >
> > I've basically lost faith in both the ALP and Liberal parties; they are
> > beholden to special interests. Perhaps I can influence them a little
> > but their destruction and with it the agglomeration of special
> > interests that has grown around the, is something to be hoped for.
> >
>
> "Unemployment in the (IT) industry has been at record highs in the five
> years since the dotcom bubble burst in 2000, yet IT workers continue to
> make up the biggest single skills group under the skills migration policy.
>
> Labor education and training spokeswoman Jenny Macklin says increased
> investment in local training programs was an option the Government had
> been unwilling to pursue.
>
> 'The Howard Government has dropped the ball on training Australians', Ms
> Macklin said. 'They are over-relying on an imported skills quick-fix.
> Labor's priority is clear - train Australians first and train them now'.
>
> She said an alarming OECD report in 2005 on education had showed
> Australia was the only nation to have cut public investment in tertiary
> education since 1995.
>
> The Immigration Department said it relied on survey information from the
> Department of Employment and Workplace Relations to decide where skilled
> migrants were most needed in the economy. A spokesman said it had
> received no data suggesting a vast oversupply of IT graduates seeking
> work in Australia".
> (http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,17773896%5E15317%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html)
>
> Fairly typical public servant's response. Did they *seek* any data?
> Apart from the fact that it's a lie - unemployment in the sector reached
> 30% in 2002/2003 and *still* they continued to import temporary
> visaholders at record levels.

I try not to vote ALP or Liberal. I'll nevertheless switch my
preferences away from the Liberals. I think a lot of people are
feeling the same way.

My main concern is the atrophying of australias training and learning
institutions is continuing while the immigrant/temporary IT workers are
really quite ordinary. (I'm trying to be nice)

If they didn't have the choice of temporary/immigrant IT workers they
might have to think and plan a little around their 'human resources'.
It would improve a lot of managers who think that managing involves
making months budget and that you can hire a person in half a day and
that human resources is a department that does stuff to stop you
getting sued.

[Ext User(P)]

sorry but Australian IT workers suck just as much as the immigrants!

"Eunometic" <eunometic@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1137073723.026483.279140@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>B J Foster wrote:
>> Eunometic wrote:
>>
>> > B J Foster wrote:
>> >
>> >>Eunometic wrote:
>> >
>> > )
>> >
>> >>Peter Costello's record as treasurer, summary:
>> >>1. Negative productivity growth
>> >>2. Record current account deficit
>> >>3. Foreign debt under Costello, from $193b to $359b (2003)
>> >>(from $10,500 per capita to $18,000)
>> >>4. Record household debt: from $290b to $660b
>> >>5. Record trade deficit
>> >>6. Record credit card debt
>> >>7. Record low proportion of 1st home buyers (from 23% to <14%)
>> >>8. Record low home affordability
>> >>9. Failure to take the RBA's advice to regulate property
>> >>seminars/scammers
>> >>10. Income tax up $5000 per household
>> >
>> >
>> > While I concur with your assesment it would seem that the oppostion is
>> > in disarray for it not to succede in the face of that. It may take
>> > another decae years for half the people who bitterly remember Paul
>> > Keating and his 25% interest rates.
>>
>> http://www.rba.gov.au/ChartPack/output_expenditure_activity_fincon.pdf#page=3
>> Page 3, bottom right:
>> Interest paid as a percentage of household income is at a record high
>> *and* record numbers of families have two, not one breadwinner
>>
>> >
>> > I've basically lost faith in both the ALP and Liberal parties; they are
>> > beholden to special interests. Perhaps I can influence them a little
>> > but their destruction and with it the agglomeration of special
>> > interests that has grown around the, is something to be hoped for.
>> >
>>
>> "Unemployment in the (IT) industry has been at record highs in the five
>> years since the dotcom bubble burst in 2000, yet IT workers continue to
>> make up the biggest single skills group under the skills migration
>> policy.
>>
>> Labor education and training spokeswoman Jenny Macklin says increased
>> investment in local training programs was an option the Government had
>> been unwilling to pursue.
>>
>> 'The Howard Government has dropped the ball on training Australians', Ms
>> Macklin said. 'They are over-relying on an imported skills quick-fix.
>> Labor's priority is clear - train Australians first and train them now'.
>>
>> She said an alarming OECD report in 2005 on education had showed
>> Australia was the only nation to have cut public investment in tertiary
>> education since 1995.
>>
>> The Immigration Department said it relied on survey information from the
>> Department of Employment and Workplace Relations to decide where skilled
>> migrants were most needed in the economy. A spokesman said it had
>> received no data suggesting a vast oversupply of IT graduates seeking
>> work in Australia".
>> (http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,17773896%5E15317%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html)
>>
>> Fairly typical public servant's response. Did they *seek* any data?
>> Apart from the fact that it's a lie - unemployment in the sector reached
>> 30% in 2002/2003 and *still* they continued to import temporary
>> visaholders at record levels.
>
> I try not to vote ALP or Liberal. I'll nevertheless switch my
> preferences away from the Liberals. I think a lot of people are
> feeling the same way.
>
> My main concern is the atrophying of australias training and learning
> institutions is continuing while the immigrant/temporary IT workers are
> really quite ordinary. (I'm trying to be nice)
>
> If they didn't have the choice of temporary/immigrant IT workers they
> might have to think and plan a little around their 'human resources'.
> It would improve a lot of managers who think that managing involves
> making months budget and that you can hire a person in half a day and
> that human resources is a department that does stuff to stop you
> getting sued.
>

[Ext User(jantan)]

Is this really true? I know of many Computer programmers and IT graduates
still running around like headless chooks looking for jobs.
"Eunometic" <eunometic@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1137061995.387906.234250@g43g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> The Australian "Financial Review" of Tuesday 10th January carries and
> article titled:
> "Reality Bytes as IT jobes go Begging" by Mark Jones.
>
> Basicially it says that large governments departments and companies are
> struggling to find IT experts and this is "threatening" a 42 billion
> dollar spending boom. (Interesting use of the word threatening).
> Telstra is one of those companies: it wants to roll out 4G network by
> 2013.
>
> Australians may remember the last time we had a recesion in IT (in part
> becuase of a bursting of the dot.com speculation bubble but also
> becuase of a general tightening of lavish, rash and ineffective IT
> spending that reached 30% of company expenditure). Large numbers of
> immigrant IT workers were brought it both before, during and after the
> IT 'step back'. To an extent the lavish speculation was actually
> fueled by the huge influx of IT immigrants the allowed the maket to
> overheat.
>
> As a result a great many IT workers found themselves unemployed and
> working on the taxi ranks with the often mediocre immigrant IT workers.
> (the bulk of IT workers weren't geniouses developing new concepts)
>
> Wages, conditions and job security dropped dramatically. Many people
> lost homes or dreams of a comfortable retirement.
>
> Why aren't we offering training opportunities and education access to
> our Australian people and children now?
>
> Firstly Australian companies having become relient on immigration and
> 'slack' are not offering training opportunities, scholarships or
> release to part time study to their staff nor are they demanding more
> graduates or IT trained people.
>
> Secondly Australian children and parents are fearfull and cynical that
> the Government will again "glut" the IT market as soon as the
> opportunity arises.
>
> Thirdly there is a push to immigration for its own sake or the sake of
> providing ever expanding markets for big building companies or
> reatailers. (the Australian Buisiness Council doesn't just push
> 'industrial relations reform;it pushes immigration)
>
> We shouldn;t allow this 'knee jerk' immigration to happen.
>
> Once the addiction to 'cheap' and 'instant skills' is broken
> government,companies,universities,IT trainers will once again be able
> to develop not only a steady stream of educated employees but a stream
> of switched on employees that will advance the long term interests of
> their companies.
>
> In this way the disconect and managerial and educational deskilling
> that has been created by 'knee jerk' IT immigration will be broken.
>
> We owe good interesting jobs, good wages and good job stabillity to our
> own Australian children and people.
>
> Pandering to the short term interests of companies betrays the greater
> interest we have in Australians as individuals. It's the people that
> count: not abstract numbers that only loosly repreennt aspects of the
> economy.
>

[Ext User(B J Foster)]

Eunometic wrote:

> Harry Snape wrote:
>
>>Eunometic wrote:
>>
>>>B J Foster wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Eunometic wrote:
>>>
>>>While I concur with your assesment it would seem that the oppostion is
>>>in disarray for it not to succede in the face of that. It may take
>>>another decae years for half the people who bitterly remember Paul
>>>Keating and his 25% interest rates.
>>
>>Nope, Paul was bad, but he never had 25% interest rates.
>
>
> I think home loan rates approached 20% and business interest rates
> approached 25%. I was in manufacturing at the time and thought that
> this was insane. We're a high labour cost country and need to have low
> interest rates to justify investment in automation and plant. I had
> collegues in Switzerland who though 6% was high.
>

Keating Costello
Household debt <50% 75%-150%
Interest payments 6% 10%
Savings 5% -5%
(as a percentage of disposable income)
(http://www.rba.gov.au/ChartPack/output_expenditure_activity_fincon.pdf)

[Ext User(ralph)]

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:20:20 +1100, B J Foster <bjfoster@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Eunometic wrote:
>
>> Harry Snape wrote:
>>
>>>Eunometic wrote:
>>>
>>>>B J Foster wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Eunometic wrote:
>>>>
>>>>While I concur with your assesment it would seem that the oppostion is
>>>>in disarray for it not to succede in the face of that. It may take
>>>>another decae years for half the people who bitterly remember Paul
>>>>Keating and his 25% interest rates.
>>>
>>>Nope, Paul was bad, but he never had 25% interest rates.
>>
>>
>> I think home loan rates approached 20% and business interest rates
>> approached 25%. I was in manufacturing at the time and thought that
>> this was insane. We're a high labour cost country and need to have low
>> interest rates to justify investment in automation and plant. I had
>> collegues in Switzerland who though 6% was high.
>>
>
> Keating Costello
>Household debt <50% 75%-150%
>Interest payments 6% 10%
>Savings 5% -5%
>(as a percentage of disposable income)
>(http://www.rba.gov.au/ChartPack/output_expenditure_activity_fincon.pdf)

FWIW ... people are more willing to take on debt when they think they
can support it ... ie, when they are confident they can stay employed
to pay it off.

I seriously doubt anyone who went through Keating's "recession we had
to have" thinks they were better off then now.

[Ext User(fyfpoon@gmail.com)]

bishop13 alarmed:"never mind that half the immigrants are
terrorists...."

Do you mean the RCMP refuses to do anything when HALF of the immigrants
are terrorists? By the way, have you finished your homework from the
'affirmative action' classes yet?

The reason why Canada imports so many skilled people is because dumb
shit like you are unable to help yourself and maintain your current
standard of living. The moment when your living standard falls, you at
once cry foul to your political representatives and they have to turn
around and give you what you want.