OT - IR bill

[Ext User(Mark Shea)]

Footy Facts wrote:

> tell me how it is difficult to do the BAS
> fact is you don't know because you
> admit you have your accountant do it
> you have NO experience so you have
> no point of reference

*sigh*

Your contention: Tax is easy, or at least, GST is easy, because of the
use of common, over the counter business software, specifically MYOB,
but also Quicken etc.

Colin has attempted to disprove this assertion by offering:
1) People who can't use such software, due to inadequate experience,
lack of the necessary skills, or poor computer literacy. Many people
forget this is very large sector of the community. Shrinking, but large.
I further add people with disability, such as those with a visual
impairment, or those who may lack sufficiently fine motor movements in
one or more hands.

2) People for whom the standard software is inadequate, such as larger
companies. *You* defined larger as
"Payroll is only useful for larger companies
I would reckon more than maybe 7/8
employees "
I wager there would be a great many companies of this size, who are not
necessarily so well off they can afford higher-range software.

3) Persons who operate in the service industry in which *it is not
practical* to sell time as if it is a good.
4) People with mixed service-goods operation.
5) People with predominantly manual point-of-transaction record keeping.
6) People with a a mix of other governmental charges apart from the GST.

Etc.

The proof of the pudding can be further demonstrated in its consumption-
there *are* accountants. If this whole thing was so easy, you wouldn't
need accountants. However, there are indeed accountants, and many
(indeed, to the best of my knowlege, most) deal not with
mega-corporations but with modest and small businesses. And you've got
to acquire accreditation, degrees, etc to be an accountant. And they're
not cheap.

Clearly, accountants are needed in some way. I contend that the
management of the GST and other government charges and taxes form a
significant part of this need.

Mark Shea

[Ext User(Mr Black)]

"Larry de Silva" <larrydesilva@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:mDjef.124$fL6.5008@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
> "deker" <deker@19> wrote in message
> news:43795555$0$9965$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> > Larry de Silva wrote:
> > > "d e k e r" <deker@home> wrote in message
> > > news:43782e11$0$10009$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> > >
> > >>Larry de Silva wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>I rest my case and leave it to others to decide just WHO the nutjob
is.
> > >>>
> > >>>Laz
> > >>
> > >>I think the votes are in. congrats. nutjob.
> > >>
> > >>deker
> > >
> > >
> > > Happy to be a nutjob rather than a mangy feral racist cunt like you
> > > Decks....
> > >
> > > Laz
> >
> > So after arguing that you weren't a nutjob, you now admit to being one.
> > Good for you, as the first step towards a cure is recognising the
> > problem in the first place. Maybe one day you'll be cured of all your
> > prejudices and know what it's like to live life without hatred towards
> > others, and finally be rid of that chip on your shoulder.
>
>
> FFS, its NOT a fucking chip, its a pappadum.................get it right
> racist butt muncher...
>
> Laz

LOL...thats a pretty cool reply...im payin that

MrB

[Ext User(Footy Facts)]

"Mark Shea" <zadeja@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:4379c8c9$0$9997$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Footy Facts wrote:
>
>> tell me how it is difficult to do the BAS
>> fact is you don't know because you
>> admit you have your accountant do it
>> you have NO experience so you have
>> no point of reference
>
> *sigh*
>
> Your contention: Tax is easy, or at least, GST is easy, because of the use of common, over the counter business software,
> specifically MYOB, but also Quicken etc.
>
My contention is only that
A) the GST was a good tax coming from WST
B) the BAS is an easily managed thing
just set up your system correctly and spend
the time to do the work, 5 minutes a day
rather than a whole day at the end of the quarter
then bitch about how hard the BAS is

> Colin has attempted to disprove this assertion by offering:
> 1) People who can't use such software, due to inadequate experience, lack of the necessary skills, or poor computer literacy. Many
> people forget this is very large sector of the community. Shrinking, but large. I further add people with disability, such as
> those with a visual impairment, or those who may lack sufficiently fine motor movements in one or more hands.
>

but these are physical debilitations
none of which has anything to do with managing
the BAS/GST, these problems would manifest
themselves across the whole business management
they are not specific to BAS/GST

> 2) People for whom the standard software is inadequate, such as larger companies. *You* defined larger as
> "Payroll is only useful for larger companies
> I would reckon more than maybe 7/8
> employees "
> I wager there would be a great many companies of this size, who are not necessarily so well off they can afford higher-range
> software.

any company with 7/8 employees can afford a one off $500
to purchase software that will save them more than that
in time and effort, mistakes etc. It is simple economics
they are either paying some one to do it and thus
if you had 7/8 employees a manual system would be
at least 2hrs pw thus it would cost you at least $1000 pa
rather than a one off $500 + ongoing upgrades

>
> 3) Persons who operate in the service industry in which *it is not practical* to sell time as if it is a good.

how is it not practical
you charge an hourly rate in effect Number Of Items * Rate
otherwise you charge a flat fee
in either case it is a simple thing to do
otherwise tell me how you would bill them
I honestly cannot conceive of a situation where
it is not only not practical but every service bill i get is
either flat fee or hourly based
please advise a business where they don't use either
method because I simply cannot think of how else to do it

> 4) People with mixed service-goods operation.

what difference does it make
if you think laterally every service is just a retail item
that has a charge fixed to it simple as that

My POS system charges for Goods, Freight
Wine tastings, Dinner nights + more
not because I designed my system to
speficially do that but because it is a simple concept
to see everything as a product with a charge attached

> 5) People with predominantly manual point-of-transaction record keeping.

Then they are paying huge Accountants fees to rekey all the data
they have no stock control and are being robbed blind
they have no idea of the status of the business

> 6) People with a a mix of other governmental charges apart from the GST.

GST or GST free is a simple flag on the product
no mystery there and again nothing that is difficult
most govt charges (except tax) attract GST

>
> Etc.
>

no etc

> The proof of the pudding can be further demonstrated in its consumption- there *are* accountants. If this whole thing was so easy,
> you wouldn't need accountants. However, there are indeed accountants, and many (indeed, to the best of my knowlege, most) deal not
> with mega-corporations but with modest and small businesses. And you've got to acquire accreditation, degrees, etc to be an
> accountant. And they're not cheap.
>
> Clearly, accountants are needed in some way. I contend that the management of the GST and other government charges and taxes form
> a significant part of this need.
>
> Mark Shea

I contend not, I have almost 70 clients none of whom
use their accountants for the BAS they use my POS
(they only use POS becuase they are retailers
essentially that part is not required for a service business)
and MYOB (and its MYOB only purely because for
whatever reason QUICKEN will not release an open
data import facility for POS data! wherease MYOB do)

Accountants are there because tax law
(and here I do agree with Colin)
in general is ridiculous and doing your company
account, ASIC, company statements etc
is far far more complicated than BAS/GST
all my accountant ever wants is a copy
of my BAS so he can watch the cashflows
and make sure I don't suddenly leave myself
short when it comes time to pay tax in March.

In much the same way that I as a computer
professional make money charging corporations
exhorbitant rates (though not quite as much as CK)
because if it were simple to develop computer systems
they would do it themselves, you can take the
accountant analogy down to the mechanic, garbo,
Lawn Mower, painter etc we all pay for things
we either can't, won't or don't want to do

None of this has still told me how it is diffcult
to do the BAS. It can only be difficult if you
have business methods that make it so
implement simple procedures and the BAS
is a snap

gF

[Ext User(Footy Facts)]

"Larry de Silva" <larrydesi...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:80FCe.38$D24.1773@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...




>Whinge whinge whinge.................
>Geez you have become a expert whinger these days Krud dude!!
>Get over it for Buck's sake.....................:-)
>Whinge whinge whinge............Are you a bloody Pom by any
>chance???.......;-)


No matter how you want to spin it
your remark is racist, A racist doesn't
get to measure how innoquous a term
is because by its very nature a racist
remark is seen as innoquous by the
protaganist.

All you need do is withdraw your remark
and admit that you were guilty of
racial sterotyping as much as anyone else.

I don't expect to see a retraction however
because it is obvious to me that you
consider only white men capable of racism
despite the evidence to the contrary!

gF

and every time you play the racist card
I will repost and keep your post alive
because one-way racists like you
need to be exposed!

[Ext User(Larry de Silva)]

"Footy Facts" <footyfacts@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4379d015$1_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com. ..
>
> "Larry de Silva" <larrydesi...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:80FCe.38$D24.1773@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
>
>
>
> >Whinge whinge whinge.................
> >Geez you have become a expert whinger these days Krud dude!!
> >Get over it for Buck's sake.....................:-)
> >Whinge whinge whinge............Are you a bloody Pom by any
> >chance???.......;-)
>
>
> No matter how you want to spin it
> your remark is racist, A racist doesn't
> get to measure how innoquous a term
> is because by its very nature a racist
> remark is seen as innoquous by the
> protaganist.
>
> All you need do is withdraw your remark
> and admit that you were guilty of
> racial sterotyping as much as anyone else.
>
> I don't expect to see a retraction however
> because it is obvious to me that you
> consider only white men capable of racism
> despite the evidence to the contrary!
>
> gF
>
> and every time you play the racist card
> I will repost and keep your post alive
> because one-way racists like you
> need to be exposed!


Do you stalk little kids as well cockhead??

Typical ASAR fucknut..........

Laz

[Ext User(Footy Facts)]

"Larry de Silva" <larrydesilva@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message news:5Qkef.135$fL6.5738@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
> "Footy Facts" <footyfacts@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4379d015$1_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com. ..
>>
>> "Larry de Silva" <larrydesi...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:80FCe.38$D24.1773@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Whinge whinge whinge.................
>> >Geez you have become a expert whinger these days Krud dude!!
>> >Get over it for Buck's sake.....................:-)
>> >Whinge whinge whinge............Are you a bloody Pom by any
>> >chance???.......;-)
>>
>>
>> No matter how you want to spin it
>> your remark is racist, A racist doesn't
>> get to measure how innoquous a term
>> is because by its very nature a racist
>> remark is seen as innoquous by the
>> protaganist.
>>
>> All you need do is withdraw your remark
>> and admit that you were guilty of
>> racial sterotyping as much as anyone else.
>>
>> I don't expect to see a retraction however
>> because it is obvious to me that you
>> consider only white men capable of racism
>> despite the evidence to the contrary!
>>
>> gF
>>
>> and every time you play the racist card
>> I will repost and keep your post alive
>> because one-way racists like you
>> need to be exposed!
>
>
> Do you stalk little kids as well cockhead??
>
> Typical ASAR fucknut..........
>
> Laz
>
>
>
>

again you have had the opportunity
I posted your statement for all to see
you can be seen for the hypocrit you are

Your position is untenable
everyone can see what you posted
and your response is to abuse
and lame attempt to belittle
the very essence of a racist

you sir are the single most racist
person in this group and you
doth protest too loud

and every time you post I will again
give you the opportunity to retract
and admit you are as guilty as you
claim Swooper to be.

gF

[Ext User(Larry de Silva)]

"Footy Facts" <footyfacts@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4379e219$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com. ..
>
> "Larry de Silva" <larrydesilva@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:5Qkef.135$fL6.5738@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> >
> > "Footy Facts" <footyfacts@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:4379d015$1_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com. ..
> >>
> >> "Larry de Silva" <larrydesi...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> >> news:80FCe.38$D24.1773@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >Whinge whinge whinge.................
> >> >Geez you have become a expert whinger these days Krud dude!!
> >> >Get over it for Buck's sake.....................:-)
> >> >Whinge whinge whinge............Are you a bloody Pom by any
> >> >chance???.......;-)
> >>
> >>
> >> No matter how you want to spin it
> >> your remark is racist, A racist doesn't
> >> get to measure how innoquous a term
> >> is because by its very nature a racist
> >> remark is seen as innoquous by the
> >> protaganist.
> >>
> >> All you need do is withdraw your remark
> >> and admit that you were guilty of
> >> racial sterotyping as much as anyone else.
> >>
> >> I don't expect to see a retraction however
> >> because it is obvious to me that you
> >> consider only white men capable of racism
> >> despite the evidence to the contrary!
> >>
> >> gF
> >>
> >> and every time you play the racist card
> >> I will repost and keep your post alive
> >> because one-way racists like you
> >> need to be exposed!
> >
> >
> > Do you stalk little kids as well cockhead??
> >
> > Typical ASAR fucknut..........
> >
> > Laz
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> again you have had the opportunity
> I posted your statement for all to see
> you can be seen for the hypocrit you are
>
> Your position is untenable
> everyone can see what you posted
> and your response is to abuse
> and lame attempt to belittle
> the very essence of a racist
>
> you sir are the single most racist
> person in this group and you
> doth protest too loud
>
> and every time you post I will again
> give you the opportunity to retract
> and admit you are as guilty as you
> claim Swooper to be.


As long as you admit to being guilty as a fucking low life
stalker.............great job, no really............

Laz




>
> gF
>
>

[Ext User(Neil Green)]

"Footy Facts" <footyfacts@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4379a690$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com. ..
>
> "Colin Kynoch" <colinkynoch@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3l5jn196gb2hbi38ikr8d4is2m8hqsm759@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:47:11 +1100, "Footy Facts"
>>>
>>>
>>>A service and goods are indetical for the
>>>purposes of GST so again what is your point
>>
>> No they aren't
>>
>
> In what way are they different
> a Service is charged and has GST on it
> whether this is goods or Time is irrelevant
> otherwise tell me how they differ
> X * 1.10 = Customer Charge
>
> so please explain to me how the two differ
> from the point of the GST, I look forward to
> your reply it will be interesting reading
>
> The GST and BAS have no differentiation
> between a service rendered and a product sold!
>
>>>> Try a business that some items are input taxed.
>>
>>>The account code in the system
>>>knows what is and isn't input taxed
>>>this is only a simple matter of your
>>>accountant providing the right codes
>>>in the first place.
>>
>> Yet you were claiming it was all so simple.
>>
>
> it is simple all the work is done by
> your accountant up front and MYOB
> at least has wizards that do 95% of the setup
> for you, takes less than 2 hours to set up
> any small business for MYOB
>
>>
>>>> The government has made the GST into a complex system.
>>
>>>again please tell me how,
>>>I have yet to be provided with
>>>even one example of what makes it complex
>>>
>
> I see you still failed to give even one
> example of what makes it complex
>
>>>
>>>I can only assume that your accounts are
>>>a mess otherwise again please explain
>>>how it takes you so long to do
>>>and what makes it complex!
>>
>> I have an accountant do mine.
>>
>> A far more cost effective way of doing them and far more likely to be
>> correct.
>>
>> Colin Kynoch
>
> LOL, I hope you check your accounts
> because people make keying errors
> no matter how experienced they are
> My accountant inadvertantly used the
> previous years WHT (which I picked up
> because I check things before I sign them)
> which was merely a result of cut and paste
> and it can happen to anybody!
>
> and you advocate a manual system
> claiming it is too difficult for older people
> my old man is 75 and even he knows
> how to do his basic accounts in Quicken
> That is the usual poor excuse when you
> lack an argument of substance
>
> I challenge you again!!
>
> tell me how it is difficult to do the BAS
> fact is you don't know because you
> admit you have your accountant do it
> you have NO experience so you have
> no point of reference
>
> gF

It may seem simple to you FF, and it's more than likely not difficult for
most folks on this NG.
But we are all computer literate, and at least of average intelligence.
Take your average panel beater, plasterer, hair dresser, courier, small
engineering shop etc., who would comprise a huge percentage of small
businesses.
If they aren't computer literate to start with then what sort of time will
they need to invest to firstly become computer savvy and then to learn and
operate MYOB or Quicken?
Many simply haven't got enough hours in the day as it is.
For the vast majority of these people the only viable option is to hand the
whole box and dice to the accountant or use an onsite book-keeper and
neither option is cheap.
To assert that every small business, or even a large percentage, can easily
do there own accounts and BAS is a joke.
For many of these businesses the GST has been just another cost to be either
absorbed or handed on to the customer so in most cases the customer ends up
paying not only the GST but also a significant slice of the cost of
administering it.
And the government gets a million or so unpaid tax collectors out of the
deal.
No wonder they love it so much.

[Ext User(Colin Kynoch)]

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:12:38 +1100, "Footy Facts"
<footyfacts@yahoo.com>after much thought and consideration decided
that the following would improve the lives of those that read it:

>
>"Colin Kynoch" <colinkynoch@gmail.com> wrote in message news:3l5jn196gb2hbi38ikr8d4is2m8hqsm759@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 17:47:11 +1100, "Footy Facts"
>>>
>>>
>>>A service and goods are indetical for the
>>>purposes of GST so again what is your point
>>
>> No they aren't
>>
>
>In what way are they different
>a Service is charged and has GST on it
>whether this is goods or Time is irrelevant
>otherwise tell me how they differ
> X * 1.10 = Customer Charge

Insurance is a service and some insurances are input taxed.


>so please explain to me how the two differ
>from the point of the GST, I look forward to
>your reply it will be interesting reading
>
>The GST and BAS have no differentiation
>between a service rendered and a product sold!

Except when a service is input taxed.

>>>> Try a business that some items are input taxed.
>>
>>>The account code in the system
>>>knows what is and isn't input taxed
>>>this is only a simple matter of your
>>>accountant providing the right codes
>>>in the first place.
>>
>> Yet you were claiming it was all so simple.
>>
>
>it is simple all the work is done by
>your accountant up front and MYOB
>at least has wizards that do 95% of the setup
>for you, takes less than 2 hours to set up
>any small business for MYOB

Assuming you are computer literate to start with.

>>>> The government has made the GST into a complex system.
>>
>>>again please tell me how,
>>>I have yet to be provided with
>>>even one example of what makes it complex

>I see you still failed to give even one
>example of what makes it complex

I have in another post.


>>>I can only assume that your accounts are
>>>a mess otherwise again please explain
>>>how it takes you so long to do
>>>and what makes it complex!
>>
>> I have an accountant do mine.
>>
>> A far more cost effective way of doing them and far more likely to be
>> correct.
>>
>> Colin Kynoch
>
>LOL, I hope you check your accounts
>because people make keying errors
>no matter how experienced they are
>My accountant inadvertantly used the
>previous years WHT (which I picked up
>because I check things before I sign them)
>which was merely a result of cut and paste
>and it can happen to anybody!

If they are lazy and slack.


>and you advocate a manual system
>claiming it is too difficult for older people
>my old man is 75 and even he knows
>how to do his basic accounts in Quicken
>That is the usual poor excuse when you
>lack an argument of substance

I haven't advocated either system.

Some people that have been using a manual system for years prefer to
continue using a manual system.

Using a fully automated system is not for everyone.

MYOB is not a one size fits all solution.


>I challenge you again!!
>
>tell me how it is difficult to do the BAS
>fact is you don't know because you
>admit you have your accountant do it
>you have NO experience so you have
>no point of reference

I have more business clients than you do and I know a large number of
them find the BAS a pain in the arse and too much hassle. So they get
an expert to do it.

Colin Kynoch

[Ext User(Epigram)]

On 11/15/2005 19:38:46 Mark Shea <zadeja@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Footy Facts wrote:

>> tell me how it is difficult to do the BAS fact is you don't know because
>> you admit you have your accountant do it you have NO experience so you
>> have no point of reference

> *sigh*

> Your contention: Tax is easy, or at least, GST is easy, because of the use
> of common, over the counter business software, specifically MYOB, but also
> Quicken etc.

> Colin has attempted to disprove this assertion by offering: 1) People who
> can't use such software, due to inadequate experience, lack of the
> necessary skills, or poor computer literacy. Many people forget this is
> very large sector of the community. Shrinking, but large. I further add
> people with disability, such as those with a visual impairment, or those
> who may lack sufficiently fine motor movements in one or more hands.

> 2) People for whom the standard software is inadequate, such as larger
> companies. *You* defined larger as "Payroll is only useful for larger
> companies I would reckon more than maybe 7/8 employees " I wager there
> would be a great many companies of this size, who are not necessarily so
> well off they can afford higher-range software.

> 3) Persons who operate in the service industry in which *it is not
> practical* to sell time as if it is a good. 4) People with mixed
> service-goods operation. 5) People with predominantly manual
> point-of-transaction record keeping. 6) People with a a mix of other
> governmental charges apart from the GST.

> Etc.

> The proof of the pudding can be further demonstrated in its consumption-
> there *are* accountants. If this whole thing was so easy, you wouldn't
> need accountants. However, there are indeed accountants, and many
> (indeed, to the best of my knowlege, most) deal not with mega-corporations
> but with modest and small businesses. And you've got to acquire
> accreditation, degrees, etc to be an accountant. And they're not cheap.

> Clearly, accountants are needed in some way. I contend that the
> management of the GST and other government charges and taxes form a
> significant part of this need.

> Mark Shea

The thrust of this thread has skewed somewhat. It started with why the GST
is a better system than the WST it replaced.

All of the above points against GST applied equally to the WST. Nothing
has changed other than a) the tax has been flattened and broadened, and b)
the point at which the tax has shifted - from a hidden, indirect tax to a
in-your-face direct tax. It is better for the end consumer to pay the tax
rather than a series of middlemen claiming tax exemption before onselling
the goods/services to a retailer/provider, and thus artificially inflating
prices.

Many people seem to forget that for most goods the tax has dropped from as
high as 32% or 22% to 10%, and choose to concentrate on goods of low cost
having 10% put on them. It must be part of the human condition to ignore
the money saved for some goods/services and whine about the slighly
increased cost of other goods/services.

Oh, and the GST raised from a state/territory goes back to that
state/territory instead of the old whinge-and-beg method treasurers had
before - a clumsy and costly exercise that pleased no one.

The fact that most states have chosen to reneg on ending some taxes,
notably payroll tax, demonstrates that governments of all persuasions are
hoping voters have very short memories.

All the other guff about accountants etc is exactly that - guff. There
were accountants before, and there are still accountants. And of course it
still remains that any money spent to pay tax is deductable.

I'm all for a fairer tax system. One way of doing this is raising the
income tax-free threshold to about $20,000. That way, the many, many
people that are on pensions and work occationally, or are the
"working-poor" won't have to submit a tax return. As it currently stands,
the vast majority of these people pay tax only to have it returned again
through the rebate system. That's billions of dollars going around in a
circle that is costing money. That's money that can be spent on tertiary
hospitals, universities and so on.

People complained about the WST, and now find ways to complain about the
GST. Which only goes to prove people in general don't like paying taxes -
we seem only interested in earning money but not paying anything at all to
earn it.
--

Toby

--
I saw a funny thing on the way here. So I laughed.

(If you really want to email me, you'd know the address)

[Ext User(Neil Green)]

"Epigram" <not@this.id> wrote in message
news:11161017.PLNXHVKI@news.dodo.com.au...
> On 11/15/2005 19:38:46 Mark Shea <zadeja@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Footy Facts wrote:
>
>>> tell me how it is difficult to do the BAS fact is you don't know because
>>> you admit you have your accountant do it you have NO experience so you
>>> have no point of reference
>
>> *sigh*
>
>> Your contention: Tax is easy, or at least, GST is easy, because of the
>> use
>> of common, over the counter business software, specifically MYOB, but
>> also
>> Quicken etc.
>
>> Colin has attempted to disprove this assertion by offering: 1) People who
>> can't use such software, due to inadequate experience, lack of the
>> necessary skills, or poor computer literacy. Many people forget this is
>> very large sector of the community. Shrinking, but large. I further add
>> people with disability, such as those with a visual impairment, or those
>> who may lack sufficiently fine motor movements in one or more hands.
>
>> 2) People for whom the standard software is inadequate, such as larger
>> companies. *You* defined larger as "Payroll is only useful for larger
>> companies I would reckon more than maybe 7/8 employees " I wager there
>> would be a great many companies of this size, who are not necessarily so
>> well off they can afford higher-range software.
>
>> 3) Persons who operate in the service industry in which *it is not
>> practical* to sell time as if it is a good. 4) People with mixed
>> service-goods operation. 5) People with predominantly manual
>> point-of-transaction record keeping. 6) People with a a mix of other
>> governmental charges apart from the GST.
>
>> Etc.
>
>> The proof of the pudding can be further demonstrated in its consumption-
>> there *are* accountants. If this whole thing was so easy, you wouldn't
>> need accountants. However, there are indeed accountants, and many
>> (indeed, to the best of my knowlege, most) deal not with
>> mega-corporations
>> but with modest and small businesses. And you've got to acquire
>> accreditation, degrees, etc to be an accountant. And they're not cheap.
>
>> Clearly, accountants are needed in some way. I contend that the
>> management of the GST and other government charges and taxes form a
>> significant part of this need.
>
>> Mark Shea
>
> The thrust of this thread has skewed somewhat. It started with why the
> GST
> is a better system than the WST it replaced.
>
> All of the above points against GST applied equally to the WST. Nothing
> has changed other than a) the tax has been flattened and broadened, and b)
> the point at which the tax has shifted - from a hidden, indirect tax to a
> in-your-face direct tax. It is better for the end consumer to pay the tax
> rather than a series of middlemen claiming tax exemption before onselling
> the goods/services to a retailer/provider, and thus artificially inflating
> prices.
>
> Many people seem to forget that for most goods the tax has dropped from as
> high as 32% or 22% to 10%, and choose to concentrate on goods of low cost
> having 10% put on them. It must be part of the human condition to ignore
> the money saved for some goods/services and whine about the slighly
> increased cost of other goods/services.
>
> Oh, and the GST raised from a state/territory goes back to that
> state/territory instead of the old whinge-and-beg method treasurers had
> before - a clumsy and costly exercise that pleased no one.
>
> The fact that most states have chosen to reneg on ending some taxes,
> notably payroll tax, demonstrates that governments of all persuasions are
> hoping voters have very short memories.
>
> All the other guff about accountants etc is exactly that - guff. There
> were accountants before, and there are still accountants. And of course
> it
> still remains that any money spent to pay tax is deductable.
>
> I'm all for a fairer tax system. One way of doing this is raising the
> income tax-free threshold to about $20,000. That way, the many, many
> people that are on pensions and work occationally, or are the
> "working-poor" won't have to submit a tax return. As it currently stands,
> the vast majority of these people pay tax only to have it returned again
> through the rebate system. That's billions of dollars going around in a
> circle that is costing money. That's money that can be spent on tertiary
> hospitals, universities and so on.
>
> People complained about the WST, and now find ways to complain about the
> GST. Which only goes to prove people in general don't like paying taxes -
> we seem only interested in earning money but not paying anything at all to
> earn it.
> --
>
> Toby
>
> --
> I saw a funny thing on the way here. So I laughed.
>
> (If you really want to email me, you'd know the address)

All very well.
I have a small commercial building and maintenance business.
There was no WST on building materials - none.
There was no WST on our labour costs - none.
WST affected me only when I bought some tools, office equipment etc., at
which time I claimed an exemption and maybe the accountant filled out a form
or something, I dunno.
In short WST meant ZERO to me.
And what the fuck are you on about the money saved on some goods/services
under the GST?
Before the GST there was NO tax on services.
Do a bit of homework FFS.

[Ext User(Jezza)]

"Larry de Silva" <larrydesilva@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:crlef.160$fL6.6021@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
> "Footy Facts" <footyfacts@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4379e219$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com. ..
>>
>> "Larry de Silva" <larrydesilva@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:5Qkef.135$fL6.5738@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>> >
>> > "Footy Facts" <footyfacts@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:4379d015$1_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com. ..
>> >>
>> >> "Larry de Silva" <larrydesi...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
>> >> news:80FCe.38$D24.1773@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Whinge whinge whinge.................
>> >> >Geez you have become a expert whinger these days Krud dude!!
>> >> >Get over it for Buck's sake.....................:-)
>> >> >Whinge whinge whinge............Are you a bloody Pom by any
>> >> >chance???.......;-)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> No matter how you want to spin it
>> >> your remark is racist, A racist doesn't
>> >> get to measure how innoquous a term
>> >> is because by its very nature a racist
>> >> remark is seen as innoquous by the
>> >> protaganist.
>> >>
>> >> All you need do is withdraw your remark
>> >> and admit that you were guilty of
>> >> racial sterotyping as much as anyone else.
>> >>
>> >> I don't expect to see a retraction however
>> >> because it is obvious to me that you
>> >> consider only white men capable of racism
>> >> despite the evidence to the contrary!
>> >>
>> >> gF
>> >>
>> >> and every time you play the racist card
>> >> I will repost and keep your post alive
>> >> because one-way racists like you
>> >> need to be exposed!
>> >
>> >
>> > Do you stalk little kids as well cockhead??
>> >
>> > Typical ASAR fucknut..........
>> >
>> > Laz
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> again you have had the opportunity
>> I posted your statement for all to see
>> you can be seen for the hypocrit you are
>>
>> Your position is untenable
>> everyone can see what you posted
>> and your response is to abuse
>> and lame attempt to belittle
>> the very essence of a racist
>>
>> you sir are the single most racist
>> person in this group and you
>> doth protest too loud
>>
>> and every time you post I will again
>> give you the opportunity to retract
>> and admit you are as guilty as you
>> claim Swooper to be.
>
>
> As long as you admit to being guilty as a fucking low life
> stalker.............great job, no really............
>
> Laz

Pathetic response, Larry. How about playing the ball, instead of the man?

[Ext User(Larry de Silva)]

"Jezza" <jezza_16@spammersblowgoatsyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:437ad2d3_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
>
> "Larry de Silva" <larrydesilva@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:crlef.160$fL6.6021@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> >
> > "Footy Facts" <footyfacts@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:4379e219$1_3@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com. ..
> >>
> >> "Larry de Silva" <larrydesilva@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:5Qkef.135$fL6.5738@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> >> >
> >> > "Footy Facts" <footyfacts@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:4379d015$1_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com. ..
> >> >>
> >> >> "Larry de Silva" <larrydesi...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> >> >> news:80FCe.38$D24.1773@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >Whinge whinge whinge.................
> >> >> >Geez you have become a expert whinger these days Krud dude!!
> >> >> >Get over it for Buck's sake.....................:-)
> >> >> >Whinge whinge whinge............Are you a bloody Pom by any
> >> >> >chance???.......;-)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> No matter how you want to spin it
> >> >> your remark is racist, A racist doesn't
> >> >> get to measure how innoquous a term
> >> >> is because by its very nature a racist
> >> >> remark is seen as innoquous by the
> >> >> protaganist.
> >> >>
> >> >> All you need do is withdraw your remark
> >> >> and admit that you were guilty of
> >> >> racial sterotyping as much as anyone else.
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't expect to see a retraction however
> >> >> because it is obvious to me that you
> >> >> consider only white men capable of racism
> >> >> despite the evidence to the contrary!
> >> >>
> >> >> gF
> >> >>
> >> >> and every time you play the racist card
> >> >> I will repost and keep your post alive
> >> >> because one-way racists like you
> >> >> need to be exposed!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Do you stalk little kids as well cockhead??
> >> >
> >> > Typical ASAR fucknut..........
> >> >
> >> > Laz
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> again you have had the opportunity
> >> I posted your statement for all to see
> >> you can be seen for the hypocrit you are
> >>
> >> Your position is untenable
> >> everyone can see what you posted
> >> and your response is to abuse
> >> and lame attempt to belittle
> >> the very essence of a racist
> >>
> >> you sir are the single most racist
> >> person in this group and you
> >> doth protest too loud
> >>
> >> and every time you post I will again
> >> give you the opportunity to retract
> >> and admit you are as guilty as you
> >> claim Swooper to be.
> >
> >
> > As long as you admit to being guilty as a fucking low life
> > stalker.............great job, no really............
> >
> > Laz
>
> Pathetic response, Larry. How about playing the ball, instead of the man?


The day I take you seriously is the day you DON'T practice bloody blatant
double standards. Have you read all the personal & racist posts directed at
me by Decker? How about asking HIM to play the ball, instead of the man? Or
are you shit scared of upsetting him but very happy to have a go at me?
Really fair that......no really it is.......................

Bloody typical ASAR hypocrite you are dude.

Laz


>
>

[Ext User(Footy Facts)]

"Larry de Silva" <larrydesi...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:80FCe.38$D24.1773@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...

>Whinge whinge whinge.................
>Geez you have become a expert whinger these days Krud dude!!
>Get over it for Buck's sake.....................:-)
>Whinge whinge whinge............Are you a bloody Pom by any
>chance???.......;-)

No matter how you want to spin it
your remark is racist, A racist doesn't
get to measure how innoquous a term
is because by its very nature a racist
remark is seen as innoquous by the
protaganist.

All you need do is withdraw your remark
and admit that you were guilty of
racial sterotyping as much as anyone else.

I don't expect to see a retraction however
because it is obvious to me that you
consider only white men capable of racism
despite the evidence to the contrary!

gF

and every time you play the racist card
I will repost and keep your post alive
because one-way racists like you
need to be exposed!

[Ext User(Mr Black)]

"Footy Facts" <footyfacts@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:437b9696$4_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com. ..
>
> "Larry de Silva" <larrydesi...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:80FCe.38$D24.1773@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
> >Whinge whinge whinge.................
> >Geez you have become a expert whinger these days Krud dude!!
> >Get over it for Buck's sake.....................:-)
> >Whinge whinge whinge............Are you a bloody Pom by any
> >chance???.......;-)
>
> No matter how you want to spin it
> your remark is racist, A racist doesn't
> get to measure how innoquous a term
> is because by its very nature a racist
> remark is seen as innoquous by the
> protaganist.
>
> All you need do is withdraw your remark
> and admit that you were guilty of
> racial sterotyping as much as anyone else.
>
> I don't expect to see a retraction however
> because it is obvious to me that you
> consider only white men capable of racism
> despite the evidence to the contrary!
>
> gF
>
> and every time you play the racist card
> I will repost and keep your post alive
> because one-way racists like you
> need to be exposed!
>
>

Hey Footy, you might want to dig into Lazy's past comments on here about
admitting to being racist towards the indigenous people of WA, and add it to
you regular post about him.

MrB

[Ext User(Epigram)]

On 11/16/2005 11:48:07 "Neil Green" <nrgreenNOSPAM@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

> "Epigram" <not@this.id> wrote in message
> news:11161017.PLNXHVKI@news.dodo.com.au...

>> On 11/15/2005 19:38:46 Mark Shea <zadeja@hotmail.com> wrote:

>>> Footy Facts wrote:

>>>> tell me how it is difficult to do the BAS fact is you don't know
>>>> because you admit you have your accountant do it you have NO experience
>>>> so you have no point of reference

>>> *sigh*

>>> Your contention: Tax is easy, or at least, GST is easy, because of the
>>> use of common, over the counter business software, specifically MYOB,
>>> but also Quicken etc.

>>> Colin has attempted to disprove this assertion by offering: 1) People
>>> who can't use such software, due to inadequate experience, lack of the
>>> necessary skills, or poor computer literacy. Many people forget this is
>>> very large sector of the community. Shrinking, but large. I further
>>> add people with disability, such as those with a visual impairment, or
>>> those who may lack sufficiently fine motor movements in one or more
>>> hands.

>>> 2) People for whom the standard software is inadequate, such as larger
>>> companies. *You* defined larger as "Payroll is only useful for larger
>>> companies I would reckon more than maybe 7/8 employees " I wager there
>>> would be a great many companies of this size, who are not necessarily so
>>> well off they can afford higher-range software.

>>> 3) Persons who operate in the service industry in which *it is not
>>> practical* to sell time as if it is a good. 4) People with mixed
>>> service-goods operation. 5) People with predominantly manual
>>> point-of-transaction record keeping. 6) People with a a mix of other
>>> governmental charges apart from the GST.

>>> Etc.

>>> The proof of the pudding can be further demonstrated in its consumption-
>>> there *are* accountants. If this whole thing was so easy, you wouldn't
>>> need accountants. However, there are indeed accountants, and many
>>> (indeed, to the best of my knowlege, most) deal not with
>>> mega-corporations but with modest and small businesses. And you've got
>>> to acquire accreditation, degrees, etc to be an accountant. And they're
>>> not cheap.

>>> Clearly, accountants are needed in some way. I contend that the
>>> management of the GST and other government charges and taxes form a
>>> significant part of this need.

>>> Mark Shea

>> The thrust of this thread has skewed somewhat. It started with why the
>> GST is a better system than the WST it replaced.

>> All of the above points against GST applied equally to the WST. Nothing
>> has changed other than a) the tax has been flattened and broadened, and
>> b) the point at which the tax has shifted - from a hidden, indirect tax
>> to a in-your-face direct tax. It is better for the end consumer to pay
>> the tax rather than a series of middlemen claiming tax exemption before
>> onselling the goods/services to a retailer/provider, and thus
>> artificially inflating prices.

>> Many people seem to forget that for most goods the tax has dropped from
>> as high as 32% or 22% to 10%, and choose to concentrate on goods of low
>> cost having 10% put on them. It must be part of the human condition to
>> ignore the money saved for some goods/services and whine about the
>> slighly increased cost of other goods/services.

>> Oh, and the GST raised from a state/territory goes back to that
>> state/territory instead of the old whinge-and-beg method treasurers had
>> before - a clumsy and costly exercise that pleased no one.

>> The fact that most states have chosen to reneg on ending some taxes,
>> notably payroll tax, demonstrates that governments of all persuasions are
>> hoping voters have very short memories.

>> All the other guff about accountants etc is exactly that - guff. There
>> were accountants before, and there are still accountants. And of course
>> it still remains that any money spent to pay tax is deductable.

>> I'm all for a fairer tax system. One way of doing this is raising the
>> income tax-free threshold to about $20,000. That way, the many, many
>> people that are on pensions and work occationally, or are the
>> "working-poor" won't have to submit a tax return. As it currently
>> stands, the vast majority of these people pay tax only to have it
>> returned again through the rebate system. That's billions of dollars
>> going around in a circle that is costing money. That's money that can be
>> spent on tertiary hospitals, universities and so on.

>> People complained about the WST, and now find ways to complain about the
>> GST. Which only goes to prove people in general don't like paying taxes
>> - we seem only interested in earning money but not paying anything at all
>> to earn it. --

>> Toby

>> -- I saw a funny thing on the way here. So I laughed.

>> (If you really want to email me, you'd know the address)

> All very well. I have a small commercial building and maintenance
> business. There was no WST on building materials - none. There was no
> WST on our labour costs - none. WST affected me only when I bought some
> tools, office equipment etc., at which time I claimed an exemption and
> maybe the accountant filled out a form or something, I dunno. In short
> WST meant ZERO to me. And what the fuck are you on about the money saved
> on some goods/services under the GST? Before the GST there was NO tax on
> services. Do a bit of homework FFS.

Yes, there was tax on services. Wholesalers were allowed upto an additonal
1% on top of the sales tax for administration of the system. That's a
service tax. I not only _knew_ the homework, I know how it applies -
instead of paying 11%, 21% or 31%, you paid 12%, 22% and 32%. A "hidden"
service tax applied.

What was worse for a wholesaler was that if someone, say a builder, claimed
tax-exemption, the wholesaler had to take it bone fide. If at a later
stage the tax-exemption was fraudulant, it was the person who gave the
tax-exemption document that had to pay the tax, but the wholesaler. The
person who fraudulantly gave the tax-exemption was pursued by the ATO in
the courts, if the Taxation Commisioner thought it worthwhile.

I'm well aware that _most_ building materials weren't taxed under WST
(most, but certainly not all). Tools were, but were tax deductable, and
still are. I worked for an Electrical Wholesaler supplying direct to the
building industry, making us a retailer as well, so I know full well what
the change over from WST to GST did. A double GPO "lept" in price from
$1.95 to a whopping $2.15. But the most expensive items, like flex cable,
RG 58 or RG 62 or telecom equipment dropped dramatically in price. In
fact, the price of building a home didn't suddenly jump 10%, as some
dooms-sayers would have us think before the GST came into force. The
average increase was much more modest. Since then, prices of housing has
gone up each year by more than 10%, but that's the market forces at hand.

However on the broader picture, most products on the supermarket shelves
_were_ taxed, and at different rates. Eg. Nestlés Chololate Quick was
not taxed, but Strawberry Quick was, at 22%. Rather than having equivilent
products priced differently all of the Quick range was sold to retailers at
the same price. In fact, most items that had this wholesale price
differentiation reduced in price overall because all were taxed at the same
rate, which was much easier for the wholesaler to keep track of, and this
ease translated to either no increase for consumers or a decrease.

Colin mentioned tampons/meds for some reason, presumably because these
products are used by nearly 50% of the adult population, and how unfair it
was to put a GST on them. Funnily enough I agree - but there was a 12% tax
on them under WST, so replacing it with a 10% tax can't be unfair.

So perhaps you should look at "the big picture", before you cry fowl - just
because your industry suddenly has to pay tax doesn't make it unfair.

What is unfair was the Government putting GST on items that were previously
untaxed under the WST system, but had state and federal exices on them. A
tax on a tax if you like. Fuel and stamp duty are probably the best
examples of this.

I'm not, nor ever, going to argue that the GST is better for _every_
business, but it has been good for many.
--

Toby

--
I saw a funny thing on the way here. So I laughed.

(If you really want to email me, you'd know the address)

[Ext User(Neil Green)]

"Epigram" <not@this.id> wrote in message
news:1117123.JBJATNYM@news.dodo.com.au...
> On 11/16/2005 11:48:07 "Neil Green" <nrgreenNOSPAM@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> "Epigram" <not@this.id> wrote in message
>> news:11161017.PLNXHVKI@news.dodo.com.au...
>
>>> On 11/15/2005 19:38:46 Mark Shea <zadeja@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Footy Facts wrote:
>
>>>>> tell me how it is difficult to do the BAS fact is you don't know
>>>>> because you admit you have your accountant do it you have NO
>>>>> experience
>>>>> so you have no point of reference
>
>>>> *sigh*
>
>>>> Your contention: Tax is easy, or at least, GST is easy, because of the
>>>> use of common, over the counter business software, specifically MYOB,
>>>> but also Quicken etc.
>
>>>> Colin has attempted to disprove this assertion by offering: 1) People
>>>> who can't use such software, due to inadequate experience, lack of the
>>>> necessary skills, or poor computer literacy. Many people forget this
>>>> is
>>>> very large sector of the community. Shrinking, but large. I further
>>>> add people with disability, such as those with a visual impairment, or
>>>> those who may lack sufficiently fine motor movements in one or more
>>>> hands.
>
>>>> 2) People for whom the standard software is inadequate, such as larger
>>>> companies. *You* defined larger as "Payroll is only useful for larger
>>>> companies I would reckon more than maybe 7/8 employees " I wager there
>>>> would be a great many companies of this size, who are not necessarily
>>>> so
>>>> well off they can afford higher-range software.
>
>>>> 3) Persons who operate in the service industry in which *it is not
>>>> practical* to sell time as if it is a good. 4) People with mixed
>>>> service-goods operation. 5) People with predominantly manual
>>>> point-of-transaction record keeping. 6) People with a a mix of other
>>>> governmental charges apart from the GST.
>
>>>> Etc.
>
>>>> The proof of the pudding can be further demonstrated in its
>>>> consumption-
>>>> there *are* accountants. If this whole thing was so easy, you wouldn't
>>>> need accountants. However, there are indeed accountants, and many
>>>> (indeed, to the best of my knowlege, most) deal not with
>>>> mega-corporations but with modest and small businesses. And you've got
>>>> to acquire accreditation, degrees, etc to be an accountant. And
>>>> they're
>>>> not cheap.
>
>>>> Clearly, accountants are needed in some way. I contend that the
>>>> management of the GST and other government charges and taxes form a
>>>> significant part of this need.
>
>>>> Mark Shea
>
>>> The thrust of this thread has skewed somewhat. It started with why the
>>> GST is a better system than the WST it replaced.
>
>>> All of the above points against GST applied equally to the WST. Nothing
>>> has changed other than a) the tax has been flattened and broadened, and
>>> b) the point at which the tax has shifted - from a hidden, indirect tax
>>> to a in-your-face direct tax. It is better for the end consumer to pay
>>> the tax rather than a series of middlemen claiming tax exemption before
>>> onselling the goods/services to a retailer/provider, and thus
>>> artificially inflating prices.
>
>>> Many people seem to forget that for most goods the tax has dropped from
>>> as high as 32% or 22% to 10%, and choose to concentrate on goods of low
>>> cost having 10% put on them. It must be part of the human condition to
>>> ignore the money saved for some goods/services and whine about the
>>> slighly increased cost of other goods/services.
>
>>> Oh, and the GST raised from a state/territory goes back to that
>>> state/territory instead of the old whinge-and-beg method treasurers had
>>> before - a clumsy and costly exercise that pleased no one.
>
>>> The fact that most states have chosen to reneg on ending some taxes,
>>> notably payroll tax, demonstrates that governments of all persuasions
>>> are
>>> hoping voters have very short memories.
>
>>> All the other guff about accountants etc is exactly that - guff. There
>>> were accountants before, and there are still accountants. And of course
>>> it still remains that any money spent to pay tax is deductable.
>
>>> I'm all for a fairer tax system. One way of doing this is raising the
>>> income tax-free threshold to about $20,000. That way, the many, many
>>> people that are on pensions and work occationally, or are the
>>> "working-poor" won't have to submit a tax return. As it currently
>>> stands, the vast majority of these people pay tax only to have it
>>> returned again through the rebate system. That's billions of dollars
>>> going around in a circle that is costing money. That's money that can
>>> be
>>> spent on tertiary hospitals, universities and so on.
>
>>> People complained about the WST, and now find ways to complain about the
>>> GST. Which only goes to prove people in general don't like paying taxes
>>> - we seem only interested in earning money but not paying anything at
>>> all
>>> to earn it. --
>
>>> Toby
>
>>> -- I saw a funny thing on the way here. So I laughed.
>
>>> (If you really want to email me, you'd know the address)
>
>> All very well. I have a small commercial building and maintenance
>> business. There was no WST on building materials - none. There was no
>> WST on our labour costs - none. WST affected me only when I bought some
>> tools, office equipment etc., at which time I claimed an exemption and
>> maybe the accountant filled out a form or something, I dunno. In short
>> WST meant ZERO to me. And what the fuck are you on about the money saved
>> on some goods/services under the GST? Before the GST there was NO tax on
>> services. Do a bit of homework FFS.
>
> Yes, there was tax on services. Wholesalers were allowed upto an
> additonal
> 1% on top of the sales tax for administration of the system. That's a
> service tax. I not only _knew_ the homework, I know how it applies -
> instead of paying 11%, 21% or 31%, you paid 12%, 22% and 32%. A "hidden"
> service tax applied.
>
> What was worse for a wholesaler was that if someone, say a builder,
> claimed
> tax-exemption, the wholesaler had to take it bone fide. If at a later
> stage the tax-exemption was fraudulant, it was the person who gave the
> tax-exemption document that had to pay the tax, but the wholesaler. The
> person who fraudulantly gave the tax-exemption was pursued by the ATO in
> the courts, if the Taxation Commisioner thought it worthwhile.
>
> I'm well aware that _most_ building materials weren't taxed under WST
> (most, but certainly not all). Tools were, but were tax deductable, and
> still are. I worked for an Electrical Wholesaler supplying direct to the
> building industry, making us a retailer as well, so I know full well what
> the change over from WST to GST did. A double GPO "lept" in price from
> $1.95 to a whopping $2.15. But the most expensive items, like flex cable,
> RG 58 or RG 62 or telecom equipment dropped dramatically in price. In
> fact, the price of building a home didn't suddenly jump 10%, as some
> dooms-sayers would have us think before the GST came into force. The
> average increase was much more modest. Since then, prices of housing has
> gone up each year by more than 10%, but that's the market forces at hand.
>
> However on the broader picture, most products on the supermarket shelves
> _were_ taxed, and at different rates. Eg. Nestlés Chololate Quick was
> not taxed, but Strawberry Quick was, at 22%. Rather than having
> equivilent
> products priced differently all of the Quick range was sold to retailers
> at
> the same price. In fact, most items that had this wholesale price
> differentiation reduced in price overall because all were taxed at the
> same
> rate, which was much easier for the wholesaler to keep track of, and this
> ease translated to either no increase for consumers or a decrease.
>
> Colin mentioned tampons/meds for some reason, presumably because these
> products are used by nearly 50% of the adult population, and how unfair it
> was to put a GST on them. Funnily enough I agree - but there was a 12%
> tax
> on them under WST, so replacing it with a 10% tax can't be unfair.
>
> So perhaps you should look at "the big picture", before you cry fowl -
> just
> because your industry suddenly has to pay tax doesn't make it unfair.
>
> What is unfair was the Government putting GST on items that were
> previously
> untaxed under the WST system, but had state and federal exices on them. A
> tax on a tax if you like. Fuel and stamp duty are probably the best
> examples of this.
>
> I'm not, nor ever, going to argue that the GST is better for _every_
> business, but it has been good for many.
> --
>
> Toby
>
> --
> I saw a funny thing on the way here. So I laughed.
>
> (If you really want to email me, you'd know the address)

That's all I've been saying all along.
I'm not arguing the wrongs and rights or the fairness or anything else.
All I'm saying is that from my point of view the GST sucks.
And the service tax you talk about was a fart in a thunderstorm.
Under the GST all labour is taxed at 10%.(With very few exceptions)
A 1% admin fee on top of a say 20% tax is fuck all when compared.
$100 item + 20% WST + 1% of the WST = $120.20.
Now really.

[Ext User(Larry de Silva)]

"Mr Black" <mr_black@ REMOVE SPAMBLOCK optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:437beb70$0$25927$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
> "Footy Facts" <footyfacts@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:437b9696$4_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com. ..
> >
> > "Larry de Silva" <larrydesi...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:80FCe.38$D24.1773@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> >
> > >Whinge whinge whinge.................
> > >Geez you have become a expert whinger these days Krud dude!!
> > >Get over it for Buck's sake.....................:-)
> > >Whinge whinge whinge............Are you a bloody Pom by any
> > >chance???.......;-)
> >
> > No matter how you want to spin it
> > your remark is racist, A racist doesn't
> > get to measure how innoquous a term
> > is because by its very nature a racist
> > remark is seen as innoquous by the
> > protaganist.
> >
> > All you need do is withdraw your remark
> > and admit that you were guilty of
> > racial sterotyping as much as anyone else.
> >
> > I don't expect to see a retraction however
> > because it is obvious to me that you
> > consider only white men capable of racism
> > despite the evidence to the contrary!
> >
> > gF
> >
> > and every time you play the racist card
> > I will repost and keep your post alive
> > because one-way racists like you
> > need to be exposed!
> >
> >
>
> Hey Footy, you might want to dig into Lazy's past comments on here about
> admitting to being racist towards the indigenous people of WA, and add it
to
> you regular post about him.
>
> MrB


LOL!!

Another TYPICAL ASAR poster helping a fucking out and out racist arsehole &
perpetrator attack the victim!! Any little credibility you had is stuffed
now Mr B..............although ASAR racists will all love you like a long
lost brother....

Laz

[Ext User(Mr Black)]

"Larry de Silva" <larrydesilva@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:8QYef.121$6B1.3589@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
> "Mr Black" <mr_black@ REMOVE SPAMBLOCK optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:437beb70$0$25927$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> >
> > "Footy Facts" <footyfacts@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:437b9696$4_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com. ..
> > >
> > > "Larry de Silva" <larrydesi...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> > > news:80FCe.38$D24.1773@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> > >
> > > >Whinge whinge whinge.................
> > > >Geez you have become a expert whinger these days Krud dude!!
> > > >Get over it for Buck's sake.....................:-)
> > > >Whinge whinge whinge............Are you a bloody Pom by any
> > > >chance???.......;-)
> > >
> > > No matter how you want to spin it
> > > your remark is racist, A racist doesn't
> > > get to measure how innoquous a term
> > > is because by its very nature a racist
> > > remark is seen as innoquous by the
> > > protaganist.
> > >
> > > All you need do is withdraw your remark
> > > and admit that you were guilty of
> > > racial sterotyping as much as anyone else.
> > >
> > > I don't expect to see a retraction however
> > > because it is obvious to me that you
> > > consider only white men capable of racism
> > > despite the evidence to the contrary!
> > >
> > > gF
> > >
> > > and every time you play the racist card
> > > I will repost and keep your post alive
> > > because one-way racists like you
> > > need to be exposed!
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Hey Footy, you might want to dig into Lazy's past comments on here about
> > admitting to being racist towards the indigenous people of WA, and add
it
> to
> > you regular post about him.
> >
> > MrB
>
>
> LOL!!
>
> Another TYPICAL ASAR poster helping a fucking out and out racist arsehole
&
> perpetrator attack the victim!! Any little credibility you had is stuffed
> now Mr B..............although ASAR racists will all love you like a long
> lost brother....
>
> Laz

you are a complete nutjob.
I have never made a racists comment on this group.....while you have been
documented making 2 !!!!
YOU ARE A RACIST DOG AND WILL BE TREATED AS SUCH !!!

[Ext User(Larry de Silva)]

"Mr Black" <mr_black@ REMOVE SPAMBLOCK optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:437c5a30$0$28238$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
> "Larry de Silva" <larrydesilva@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:8QYef.121$6B1.3589@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> >
> > "Mr Black" <mr_black@ REMOVE SPAMBLOCK optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:437beb70$0$25927$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> > >
> > > "Footy Facts" <footyfacts@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:437b9696$4_1@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com. ..
> > > >
> > > > "Larry de Silva" <larrydesi...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> > > > news:80FCe.38$D24.1773@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
> > > >
> > > > >Whinge whinge whinge.................
> > > > >Geez you have become a expert whinger these days Krud dude!!
> > > > >Get over it for Buck's sake.....................:-)
> > > > >Whinge whinge whinge............Are you a bloody Pom by any
> > > > >chance???.......;-)
> > > >
> > > > No matter how you want to spin it
> > > > your remark is racist, A racist doesn't
> > > > get to measure how innoquous a term
> > > > is because by its very nature a racist
> > > > remark is seen as innoquous by the
> > > > protaganist.
> > > >
> > > > All you need do is withdraw your remark
> > > > and admit that you were guilty of
> > > > racial sterotyping as much as anyone else.
> > > >
> > > > I don't expect to see a retraction however
> > > > because it is obvious to me that you
> > > > consider only white men capable of racism
> > > > despite the evidence to the contrary!
> > > >
> > > > gF
> > > >
> > > > and every time you play the racist card
> > > > I will repost and keep your post alive
> > > > because one-way racists like you
> > > > need to be exposed!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hey Footy, you might want to dig into Lazy's past comments on here
about
> > > admitting to being racist towards the indigenous people of WA, and add
> it
> > to
> > > you regular post about him.
> > >
> > > MrB
> >
> >
> > LOL!!
> >
> > Another TYPICAL ASAR poster helping a fucking out and out racist
arsehole
> &
> > perpetrator attack the victim!! Any little credibility you had is
stuffed
> > now Mr B..............although ASAR racists will all love you like a
long
> > lost brother....
> >
> > Laz
>
> you are a complete nutjob.
> I have never made a racists comment on this group.....while you have been
> documented making 2 !!!!
> YOU ARE A RACIST DOG AND WILL BE TREATED AS SUCH !!!


"Let guilty men remember, their black deeds
Do lean on crutches made of slender reeds."
-John Webster,


Laz



>
>