Brains trust - LPG v Propane v Butane

[Ext User(Roger)]

Ok you mob of over taxed and under worked LPG fans;

whats the difference between the various mixtures of LPG,
Autogas (Propane/Butane blend) Propane and Butane.

I'm struggling with the logic of having different requirements
over their uses. ie Autogas cant be used as a domestic fuel,
but Propane and Butane can be used as an automotive fuel.

Is it that Autogas has a load of nasty shit that the refineries
dont want put into it, or as I suspect its just another rort?

[Ext User(John_H)]

Roger wrote:

>Ok you mob of over taxed and under worked LPG fans;
>
>whats the difference between the various mixtures of LPG,
>Autogas (Propane/Butane blend) Propane and Butane.
>
>I'm struggling with the logic of having different requirements
>over their uses. ie Autogas cant be used as a domestic fuel,
>but Propane and Butane can be used as an automotive fuel.
>
>Is it that Autogas has a load of nasty shit that the refineries
>dont want put into it, or as I suspect its just another rort?

You'll find the essential bedtime reading at...
http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/publications/paper5.html

--
John H

[Ext User(Scotty)]

"John_H" <john4271@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ramh32hp99p4707sv38i5ue5qulif4q6er@4ax.com...
> Roger wrote:
>
>>Ok you mob of over taxed and under worked LPG fans;
>>
>>whats the difference between the various mixtures of LPG,
>>Autogas (Propane/Butane blend) Propane and Butane.
>>
>>I'm struggling with the logic of having different requirements
>>over their uses. ie Autogas cant be used as a domestic fuel,
>>but Propane and Butane can be used as an automotive fuel.
>>
>>Is it that Autogas has a load of nasty shit that the refineries
>>dont want put into it, or as I suspect its just another rort?
>
> You'll find the essential bedtime reading at...
> http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/publications/paper5.html
>
> --
> John H

Why cant Auto LPG be used in yoru BBQ bottle? They fill em up with that in
NZ for BBQs why not here. THey just weigh the tank fill it then reweight,
you pay per Kg used. How come we dont do that here? Anyone....?

[Ext User(Patrick Young)]

Scotty wrote:

> Why cant Auto LPG be used in yoru BBQ bottle? They fill em up with that in
> NZ for BBQs why not here. THey just weigh the tank fill it then reweight,
> you pay per Kg used. How come we dont do that here? Anyone....?

Doesn't worry me. I use LPG for a number of things, not sure
of water content, so let someone else try first for
extreme apps such as hot air balloon burners.

--
--------------------------------------------
4x4 Hilux Auto Service Centre,
BP 106 Timbuktu,
Mali (West Africa)
Tel: 292 91 52
Specialising in turbo diesel and R290 aircon
--------------------------------------------

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Scotty" <scoter1@warmmail.com> wrote in message
news:4438db0d$0$20113$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...

> Why cant Auto LPG be used in yoru BBQ bottle? They fill em up with that in
> NZ for BBQs why not here. THey just weigh the tank fill it then reweight,
> you pay per Kg used. How come we dont do that here? Anyone....?

Auto lpg can be used in any lpg burning device just fine.

The main reasons why it's not used in domestic bottles is that gas companies
don't want Joe Public trying to fill his bbq bottle at the local service
station with potentially disasterous results, and by fooling the public into
thinking that there is actually a different type of lpg for domestic bottled
use they can charge *shitloads* more than the bowser price of auto lpg.

In other words, it's a fucking huge scam, and they milk it for all it's
worth :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[VYBerlinaV8]

From a business point of view it makes sense for them to charge more for gas when you fill a bottle. They have to pay for someone to handle and fill the bottle and process the transaction. Basically you get charged a premium for not buying in bulk (that is, like when you fill your car).

Not saying I agree or disagree, it's just the way business works.

[Ext User(Scotty)]

"Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4438ff64@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "Scotty" <scoter1@warmmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4438db0d$0$20113$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
>> Why cant Auto LPG be used in yoru BBQ bottle? They fill em up with that
>> in NZ for BBQs why not here. THey just weigh the tank fill it then
>> reweight, you pay per Kg used. How come we dont do that here? Anyone....?
>
> Auto lpg can be used in any lpg burning device just fine.
>
> The main reasons why it's not used in domestic bottles is that gas
> companies don't want Joe Public trying to fill his bbq bottle at the local
> service station with potentially disasterous results, and by fooling the
> public into thinking that there is actually a different type of lpg for
> domestic bottled use they can charge *shitloads* more than the bowser
> price of auto lpg.
>
> In other words, it's a fucking huge scam, and they milk it for all it's
> worth :)
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
>
Doesnt teh shit they fill ya BBQ bottle with Butane/Propane mix different to
that used in Autos?

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Scotty" <scoter1@warmmail.com> wrote in message
news:443a2348$0$20111$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...

> Doesnt teh shit they fill ya BBQ bottle with Butane/Propane mix different
> to that used in Autos?

There's no set rule to it.

It all comes from the same process. Sometimes they put a lot of butane in
the domestic stuff, and sometimes they stick heaps in the auto lpg as well.
On any given day you could fill up your car and your barbeque bottle from
different outlets and find the gas mixture is exactly the same.

The only real difference is the manner in which you pay for it.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Scotty)]

"Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:443a36b9$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "Scotty" <scoter1@warmmail.com> wrote in message
> news:443a2348$0$20111$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
>> Doesnt teh shit they fill ya BBQ bottle with Butane/Propane mix different
>> to that used in Autos?
>
> There's no set rule to it.
>
> It all comes from the same process. Sometimes they put a lot of butane in
> the domestic stuff, and sometimes they stick heaps in the auto lpg as
> well. On any given day you could fill up your car and your barbeque bottle
> from different outlets and find the gas mixture is exactly the same.
>
> The only real difference is the manner in which you pay for it.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
>
So how the hell do I get the BBQ filled with auto priceing? Im gettign shit
to tears paying so much for LPG. Friggen $20 per swappa bottle and thats
just 4.5kgs. LPG aint that fricken dear.

[Ext User(Patrick Young)]

Scotty wrote:

> So how the hell do I get the BBQ filled with auto priceing? Im gettign shit
> to tears paying so much for LPG. Friggen $20 per swappa bottle and thats
> just 4.5kgs. LPG aint that fricken dear.

You don't. The bottle comes with a slightly different filling fitting
though :-)

--
--------------------------------------------
4x4 Hilux Auto Service Centre,
BP 106 Timbuktu,
Mali (West Africa)
Tel: 292 91 52
Specialising in turbo diesel and R290 aircon
--------------------------------------------

[Ext User(Alpha_77DX)]

"Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4438ff64@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "Scotty" <scoter1@warmmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4438db0d$0$20113$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
>> Why cant Auto LPG be used in yoru BBQ bottle? They fill em up with that
>> in NZ for BBQs why not here. THey just weigh the tank fill it then
>> reweight, you pay per Kg used. How come we dont do that here? Anyone....?
>
> Auto lpg can be used in any lpg burning device just fine.
>
> The main reasons why it's not used in domestic bottles is that gas
> companies don't want Joe Public trying to fill his bbq bottle at the local
> service station with potentially disasterous results, and by fooling the
> public into thinking that there is actually a different type of lpg for
> domestic bottled use they can charge *shitloads* more than the bowser
> price of auto lpg.
>
> In other words, it's a fucking huge scam, and they milk it for all it's
> worth :)
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.

I have a friend with a bus converted to a mobile home. He has a 70 litre
auto gas tank to run his gas stove. When he runs low on gas he pulls into a
servo and fills up, cheap as compared to buying by the 9kg bottle.

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Scotty" <scoter1@warmmail.com> wrote in message
news:443a371f$0$10678$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...

> So how the hell do I get the BBQ filled with auto priceing? Im gettign
> shit to tears paying so much for LPG. Friggen $20 per swappa bottle and
> thats just 4.5kgs. LPG aint that fricken dear.

You can't without a bit of fucking around.

You can make an adapter that will allow a servo gas nozzle to connect to a
bbq bottle, or purchase one (Hint -taxi fleet workshops are the place to
look for this type of gear), but most servo's will spit shit if you try to
use it. Alternately, you can use an industrial/forklift bottle as a
decanter, and fill that at the servo (which most are happy for you to do).

I use a 100 litre appliance bottle for filling at servo's, and decant from
that into regular sized gas bottles for my bbq and garage heaters.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Alpha_77DX" <nospamforme@microsoft.con> wrote in message
news:443a3e1a$0$10673

> I have a friend with a bus converted to a mobile home. He has a 70 litre
> auto gas tank to run his gas stove. When he runs low on gas he pulls into
> a servo and fills up, cheap as compared to buying by the 9kg bottle.

It's pretty common in rural areas that don't have town gas.

I've got a mate that lives in rural Vic and he has a 2000 litre lpg tank on
his property that he has filled with auto lpg by mini tanker. He uses this
to run his cooking, heating and hot water, and he also fills his car with
it.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Scotty)]

"Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:443a44d7$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "Scotty" <scoter1@warmmail.com> wrote in message
> news:443a371f$0$10678$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
>> So how the hell do I get the BBQ filled with auto priceing? Im gettign
>> shit to tears paying so much for LPG. Friggen $20 per swappa bottle and
>> thats just 4.5kgs. LPG aint that fricken dear.
>
> You can't without a bit of fucking around.
>
> You can make an adapter that will allow a servo gas nozzle to connect to a
> bbq bottle, or purchase one (Hint -taxi fleet workshops are the place to
> look for this type of gear), but most servo's will spit shit if you try to
> use it. Alternately, you can use an industrial/forklift bottle as a
> decanter, and fill that at the servo (which most are happy for you to do).
>
> I use a 100 litre appliance bottle for filling at servo's, and decant from
> that into regular sized gas bottles for my bbq and garage heaters.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
>
>
>
Whats 100Litres or LPG worth. Is be happy starpping that tpo the wall behind
the BBQ and doing all my MAN cooking out there.

[Ext User(matt)]

Noddy wrote:

>
> "Scotty" <scoter1@warmmail.com> wrote in message
> news:443a371f$0$10678$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
>> So how the hell do I get the BBQ filled with auto priceing? Im gettign
>> shit to tears paying so much for LPG. Friggen $20 per swappa bottle and
>> thats just 4.5kgs. LPG aint that fricken dear.
>
> You can't without a bit of fucking around.
>
> You can make an adapter that will allow a servo gas nozzle to connect to a
> bbq bottle, or purchase one (Hint -taxi fleet workshops are the place to
> look for this type of gear), but most servo's will spit shit if you try to
> use it. Alternately, you can use an industrial/forklift bottle as a
> decanter, and fill that at the servo (which most are happy for you to do).
>
> I use a 100 litre appliance bottle for filling at servo's, and decant from
> that into regular sized gas bottles for my bbq and garage heaters.

That gives me an idea... any law against putting a forklift LPG fitting onto
a BBQ?

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Scotty" <scoter1@warmmail.com> wrote in message
news:443a4888$0$7602$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...

> Whats 100Litres or LPG worth. Is be happy starpping that tpo the wall
> behind the BBQ and doing all my MAN cooking out there.

Last time I filled it up it was around 40 bucks or so, but that was a while
back.

If you're going to use a large industrial type bottle to run a bbq, make
sure you *don't* use a bottle with a blue painted top. These bottles are
strictly for decanting purposes only, and not for connecting directly to
appliances. The reason being is that these type of bottles have an internal
tube running from the tap down to the bottom of the bottle so liquid can be
expelled, much like a can of spray paint.

Regular bottles don't have a tube, which allows the gas vapour at the top of
the bottle to be drawn out.

Hooking up a dedicated decanter bottle to your bbq and lighting the burner
would most likely see you blown straight to Mars in a big hurry :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"matt" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:443a5181@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

> That gives me an idea... any law against putting a forklift LPG fitting
> onto
> a BBQ?

Probably, but I don't know where it'd be :)

For filling my large bottle, I have a car filler valve with a fitting on it
that screws directly into the bottle tap, and just throw it in the trailer
and lug it off to the servo. Once I get it home I remove the fitting and
hook up a double ended filler hose that allows me to fill the regular
bottles from the large one.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Patrick Young)]

matt wrote:

> That gives me an idea... any law against putting a forklift LPG fitting onto
> a BBQ?

Nope, none that I know about.

--
--------------------------------------------
4x4 Hilux Auto Service Centre,
BP 106 Timbuktu,
Mali (West Africa)
Tel: 292 91 52
Specialising in turbo diesel and R290 aircon
--------------------------------------------

[Ext User(Poxy)]

"Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:443a459a@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "Alpha_77DX" <nospamforme@microsoft.con> wrote in message
> news:443a3e1a$0$10673
>
> > I have a friend with a bus converted to a mobile home. He has a 70 litre
> > auto gas tank to run his gas stove. When he runs low on gas he pulls
into
> > a servo and fills up, cheap as compared to buying by the 9kg bottle.
>
> It's pretty common in rural areas that don't have town gas.
>
> I've got a mate that lives in rural Vic and he has a 2000 litre lpg tank
on
> his property that he has filled with auto lpg by mini tanker. He uses this
> to run his cooking, heating and hot water, and he also fills his car with
> it.

Without a pump?

[Ext User(John_H)]

Noddy wrote:
>
>It all comes from the same process. Sometimes they put a lot of butane in
>the domestic stuff, and sometimes they stick heaps in the auto lpg as well.
>On any given day you could fill up your car and your barbeque bottle from
>different outlets and find the gas mixture is exactly the same.

It's all down to those anti-smoking freaks (and I don't even smoke)!

Destroying the potential market for all those little plastic lighters
has created a surplus of butane! :)

Which raises the obvious question... why use butane for cigarette
lighters?... The answer is also obvious... it's at a much lower
pressure than propane (or a mixture of both).

So I'm thinking... there oughta be a pressure vs temperature table for
the various propane/butane mixtures somewhere around the place which
would allow you to easily determine the mix for any particular sample.
Of course you'd need a thermometer and a pressure gauge.

Highly useful information for those of us who might be interested in
alternative refrigerants! :)

--
John H