VY Commodes on Gas

[Ext User(jon)]

Does anyone have a VY on gas?

Are they compatible?

Does anyone know of any dual fuel Commodores?

I am considering this option and want to know if it is viable.

Thanks

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"jon" <jj@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:e479h1$1kr5$1@otis.netspace.net.au...
> Does anyone have a VY on gas?
>
> Are they compatible?
>
> Does anyone know of any dual fuel Commodores?
>
> I am considering this option and want to know if it is viable.

Holden sells a duel fual option through it's dealer network, so my guess
would be that it is. However, if it works as well as previous Commodores on
lpg, then it would be best left well alone :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Dan---)]

"Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:44673541$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>

>
> Holden sells a duel fual option through it's dealer network, so my guess
> would be that it is. However, if it works as well as previous Commodores
> on lpg, then it would be best left well alone :)

Best way is LPG injection less broken air boxes. :-)

--
Regards
Dan

[Ext User(mf1@project1221.com中华人民共和国)]

Official factory [nice] job:

http://tinyurl.com/zxolr

And unlike the pox single-fuel rubbish that Ford fit to its Falcon, GM
have done a fantastic job [for a change :-)]

[Ext User(John McKenzie)]

=?utf-8?B?bWYxQHByb2plY3QxMjIxLmNvbeS4reWNjuS6uuawkeWFse WSjOWbvTzXlNee15XXodeTINec157XldeT15nXoteZ158g15XX nNeq16TXp9eZ15PXmdedINee15nXldeX15PXmdedUFQtMTQxJi BQMiBNZW1iZXI=?=
wrote:
>
> Official factory [nice] job:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/zxolr
>
> And unlike the pox single-fuel rubbish that Ford fit to its Falcon, GM
> have done a fantastic job [for a change :-)]

What's wrong with dedicated lpg. You don't hear anyone give a shit if a
car runs _only_ on petrol. how come the arguments magically apply for
straight gas cars?

the main 'tow car' for me is straight lpg, and I have taken it
interstate a few times and _never_ once been close to running out of
lpg. It doesn't have an enormous tank (76-78 litres to fill), and yet it
manages. More to the point, without a _petrol_ tank in there, there's
often room for a decent sized lpg tank. Often the lpg tank size is small
purely so as to fit it in somewhere convenient whilst leaving the petrol
tank in there.

I _think_ Noddy has indicated in teh past that his jeep has had a cut n
shut smaller petrol tank fitted (whether it's his own that's been cut n
shut or a changeover I dunno) so he could run a decent lpg tank
(apparently a somewhat popular option with people who know shit from
clay). Nothing stopping someone doing that.


--
John McKenzie

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[Ext User(John McKenzie)]

jon wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a VY on gas?
>
> Are they compatible?
>
> Does anyone know of any dual fuel Commodores?

Generally speaking (and somebody else will elaborate on this no doubt)
they are exceptionally unpopular (v6 holdens) as taxis, and this isn't
due to any other reason than their issues on lpg. It's not that they are
'bad' per se, but the engine management/ignition setup on them will
sometimes wrong interpret a flooded manifold condition and start
possible multiple spark discharge (or at the very least drastically
altered spark timing) that will end up putting a spark into one of the
cylinders which has it's inlet valve open. This will ingnite whatever
air and lpg is in that cylinder, and in the inlet manifold itself.

It can happen, and does, and often can blow apart the air box and other
crap.

It may have been somehow remedied in newer setups, but I don't know that
for a fact.

_IF_ you intend to pursue it, this will sound as 'horse and cart' as can
be, but I'd strongly suggest finding a point somewhere in the intake
tract (close to the throttle body) where you drill a large hole, then
place a large diameter cork in it. Wrap some electrical tape around the
cork, so it can slip in firmly. I'd also suggest screwing in an eye hook
and tieing it with some sturdy string to something in the engine bay.
Then when (and I do mean when) it experiences an inlet backfire, it will
pop the cork and bleed of a good deal of that pressure, hopefully saving
all else. Since the cork is on a string, it'll be easy enough to find,
so you merely pop the bonnet, and push it back in it's place. You'll
think I'm having a lend of you, but I assure you I'm not.

Hypothetically speaking, it could be overcome (in cases where it exists)
by divorcing oneself from a wasted spark ignition system. That wouldn't
be a super cheap or simple option for many, so I'm including it merely
for trivia's sake.

If one was looking for a mid-large sized six cylinder car for general
duties and perhaps towing, and the fuel savings of lpg, it might even
warrant looking at a similar vintage (or slightly older) ford. That's
not to say they do or don't stack up in other ways (frankly I feel they
are fairly neck and neck with many features or the actual on road
driving experience for the sort of situations typical drivers would put
them through). I'm not actually a 'ford fan' as such, but even I have
trouble finding a decent objective argument against one of the newish
second hand ford 6s for a decent all round family car.

> I am considering this option and want to know if it is viable.

I should also point out that the above problem doesn't happen to
absolutely everyone, and by far the biggest 'risk' is if you do a hell
of a lot of bumper to bumper peak hour crawling along. If you are mostly
doing big highway trips, it'll probably never occur anyway.

--
John McKenzie

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[Ext User(Kym Kim \(Noturyulo\))]

"John McKenzie" <jmac@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
news:4467DD00.577A@alphalink.com.au...
> jon wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone have a VY on gas?
>>
>> Are they compatible?
>>
>> Does anyone know of any dual fuel Commodores?
>
> Generally speaking (and somebody else will elaborate on this no doubt)
> they are exceptionally unpopular (v6 holdens) as taxis, and this isn't
> due to any other reason than their issues on lpg. It's not that they are

It's because
1) Ford sell turnkey yellow taxi packs (Melbourne)
2) White LPG Falcons are a dime a dozen at the auctions (Sydney)

> _IF_ you intend to pursue it, this will sound as 'horse and cart' as can
> be, but I'd strongly suggest finding a point somewhere in the intake
> tract (close to the throttle body) where you drill a large hole, then

You drill a large hole or two in the air intake and wrap a piece of wetsuit
material around it. Done by professionals for years.

There is nothing whatsoever wrong with a professionally installed gas kit on
a Commodore.

[Ext User(Ron)]

John McKenzie <jmac@alphalink.com.au> wrote in
news:4467DDFB.1AA@alphalink.com.au:

> the main 'tow car' for me is straight lpg, and I have taken it
> interstate a few times and _never_ once been close to running out of
> lpg. It doesn't have an enormous tank (76-78 litres to fill), and yet
> it manages. More to the point, without a _petrol_ tank in there,
> there's often room for a decent sized lpg tank. Often the lpg tank
> size is small purely so as to fit it in somewhere convenient whilst
> leaving the petrol tank in there.
>

Reminds me, every heard of a turbo falcon on LPG ?

Seriously thinking of a Territory for towing van.
Maybe turbo for extra boot.

Ron
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Kym Kim (Noturyulo)" <kim@foreward.com> wrote in message
news:VoR9g.454$Bl.34@news.cpqcorp.net...

> It's because
> 1) Ford sell turnkey yellow taxi packs (Melbourne)
> 2) White LPG Falcons are a dime a dozen at the auctions (Sydney)

you forgot 3) V6 Commodores have an appalling reputation on lpg.

> You drill a large hole or two in the air intake and wrap a piece of
> wetsuit material around it. Done by professionals for years.

Backfire valves acutally exist, and fitting a couple of those would be a
more professional option.

> There is nothing whatsoever wrong with a professionally installed gas kit
> on a Commodore.

Maybe you should tell that to the thousands of lpg powered Commy owners who
have launched their left headlight into orbit a few times.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"John McKenzie" <jmac@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
news:4467DDFB.1AA@alphalink.com.au...

> I _think_ Noddy has indicated in teh past that his jeep has had a cut n
> shut smaller petrol tank fitted (whether it's his own that's been cut n
> shut or a changeover I dunno) so he could run a decent lpg tank
> (apparently a somewhat popular option with people who know shit from
> clay). Nothing stopping someone doing that.

Yeah, it's the way to go if you want to run a dual fuel system.

I dunno who did the gas conversion on my Jeep, but they did a nice job of
it. The original fuel tank was removed to run the biggest lpg tank you can
fit under the rear (64l fill capacity), and a fabricated petrol tank of
around 45 litres runs lengthways under the passenger's side floor. This
reduces it's off-road ground clearance somewhat, but it's not like I give a
fuck about that :)

Combined with the dual curve ignition module it's an excellent dual fuel
vehicle with virtually identical power characteristics on either fuel.

That said, if I ever buy a new car with a gas system, it'll be gas only as
the petrol side of things never gets used, and I could happily live without
carrying around the extra weight.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(John McKenzie)]

Noddy wrote:
>
>
> Maybe you should tell that to the thousands of lpg powered Commy owners who
> have launched their left headlight into orbit a few times.

Why, he's delusional about the rest, what good would exposing him to the
reality actually do.

Interesting he didn't respond to the original post, but responded later.
Curious. Must be a neurotic fan of holden (and for the record anyone
with a fanatic love of any marque is hilarious)

--
John McKenzie

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[Ext User(Kym Kim \(Noturyulo\))]

"Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4467f881$1@news.comindico.com.au...

> Backfire valves acutally exist, and fitting a couple of those would be a
> more professional option.

So where does that leave your following remark?

> Maybe you should tell that to the thousands of lpg powered Commy owners
> who have launched their left headlight into orbit a few times.

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Kym Kim (Noturyulo)" <kim@foreward.com> wrote in message
news:5wU9g.458$N%5.378@news.cpqcorp.net...

> So where does that leave your following remark?
>
>> Maybe you should tell that to the thousands of lpg powered Commy owners
>> who have launched their left headlight into orbit a few times.

Right where the pieces land.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Kym Kim \(Noturyulo\))]

"Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:44681be4@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "Kym Kim (Noturyulo)" <kim@foreward.com> wrote in message
> news:5wU9g.458$N%5.378@news.cpqcorp.net...
>
>> So where does that leave your following remark?
>>
>>> Maybe you should tell that to the thousands of lpg powered Commy owners
>>> who have launched their left headlight into orbit a few times.
>
> Right where the pieces land.

Nice snipping.

[Ext User(Dan---)]

"Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4467f881$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "Kym Kim (Noturyulo)" <kim@foreward.com> wrote in message
> news:VoR9g.454$Bl.34@news.cpqcorp.net...
>
>> It's because
>> 1) Ford sell turnkey yellow taxi packs (Melbourne)
>> 2) White LPG Falcons are a dime a dozen at the auctions (Sydney)
>
> you forgot 3) V6 Commodores have an appalling reputation on lpg.

Especially if you have shite sparky leads and incorrect spark plug gapping.
Or starting it with the accelerator pedal being touched or anchored to the
floor.

But fuck it I always though the V6 was economical enough not needing dual
fuel.
:-)

--
Regards
Dan

[Ext User(John McKenzie)]

Dan--- wrote:
>
> "Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4467f881$1@news.comindico.com.au...
> >
> > "Kym Kim (Noturyulo)" <kim@foreward.com> wrote in message
> > news:VoR9g.454$Bl.34@news.cpqcorp.net...
> >
> >> It's because
> >> 1) Ford sell turnkey yellow taxi packs (Melbourne)
> >> 2) White LPG Falcons are a dime a dozen at the auctions (Sydney)
> >
> > you forgot 3) V6 Commodores have an appalling reputation on lpg.
>
> Especially if you have shite sparky leads and incorrect spark plug gapping.
> Or starting it with the accelerator pedal being touched or anchored to the
> floor.

Stuff that a hell of a lot of people would do.

> But fuck it I always though the V6 was economical enough not needing dual
> fuel.

I'm thinking that perhaps Kieron has come back as his own alter-ego,
Still with a name starting with K but this time a dyed in the wool gmh
man.



--
John McKenzie

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[Ext User(Dan---)]

"John McKenzie" <jmac@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
news:44684465.2EF0@alphalink.com.au...
> Dan--- wrote:

>
> I'm thinking that perhaps Kieron has come back as his own alter-ego,
> Still with a name starting with K but this time a dyed in the wool gmh
> man.

Being more suspicious every day eh! ?
:-)

--
Regards
Dan

[Ext User(Neil Fisher)]

On Mon, 15 May 2006 19:05:41 +1000, John McKenzie
<jmac@alphalink.com.au>, after considering some belly-button fluf,
wrote:

[...]

>I'm thinking that perhaps Kieron has come back as his own alter-ego,
>Still with a name starting with K but this time a dyed in the wool gmh
>man.

Heathen!

Neil
---
Neil Fisher / Bob Young
Thundercords
personal opinion unless otherwise noted.
Looking for spark plug leads?
Check out http://www.magnecor.com.au

[Ext User(Neil Fisher)]

On Mon, 15 May 2006 17:22:49 +1000, "Dan---" <nospam@nospam.com>,
after considering some belly-button fluf, wrote:
[...]

>Especially if you have shite sparky leads and incorrect spark plug gapping.

Or even the factory plug setting for *petrol* - 1.2mm and up is a
definate no-no for LPG engines, *especially* waste spark ones. AU
Falcon V8's also suffer quite badly from backfires on LPG unless you
are *very* careful with plug gaps - once again, sub 1mm plug gaps
appear to help a lot. And, as you say, good leads help (would I say
anything else? ;-) )

From what I've seen on taxis / hire cars, I wouldn't recommend iridium
plugs, for a couple of reasons. 1) even though they are sold as long
life plugs (up to 160k km), the gaps vary over the life of the plug
quite a lot - I've seen AU V8s on LPG with ~70k km on a set of iridium
plugs and the gap has gone from ~1.2mm to over 2mm(!! Although,
admittedly, most iridium plugs for this engine, eg TR55IX in NGK, are
more at the performance end, rather than the long life end - I've been
told that even on petrol, you shouldn'e expect more than 60-80k km
from these plugs. Easy to pick, because the performance ones have very
thin centre electrodes). So if you're only getting 70k km, why not use
platinums, which have a larger centre electrode and so don't have
*quite* the same gap variation over their life? (and as a bonus,
they're about 2/3 the price) And 2) The pre-gapped range is quite
small compared to even platinums and they're not *supposed* to be
re-gapped significantly anyway (applies to all plugs, actually -
anthing more than about 0.2mm variation and you really should be
looking for another plug to start from).

I'd certainly agree with J Mac and Noddy that some sort of protection
for the intake tracting (espcially the plastic parts) is a good idea,
although it'll still do plenty of damage - I guess there's just too
much volume and/or expansion for that sort of thing to offer complete
protection. If you can arrange it, it's probably a good idea to put
this protection *before* the mass air-flow meter too - they don't
appear to like backfires, which I'm guessing is pressure related,
since most seem to have wire mesh on both sides of the sensor element.
Doesn't always kill them, but it's certainly not unheard of.

Neil
---
Neil Fisher / Bob Young
Thundercords
personal opinion unless otherwise noted.
Looking for spark plug leads?
Check out http://www.magnecor.com.au