How can I get pre-out?

[Ext User(mindesign)]

Hi all

ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output from a
PC? it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out (if that's what it's
called). What we need to do is have an output from a computer, feed into a
radio station transmitter (community radio station) and be able to control
it independently of the PC's volume controls. As you can imagine, we have a
lot of younger people whop love their techno etc. and that's great - it is
just that they crank the thing up while their shows are one, then forget to
return the vol. controls to normal when they leave, and our pre-recorded
shows come back on ..... this basically means folks tuning in get ultra
loud, distorted crap over their radios instead of medium volume, middle of
the road crap, which is what they expect to hear.

I imagine all we need is some kind of sound card with RCA outs, but have
never had to buy such an item before so have no idea what we need - it
doesn't need to be new or high spec. - just to have RCA/Pre outs so we can
control what goes through the transmitter.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.

Thanks

Steve

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote

> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output from a PC?

No such animal. There is no preamp in a PC.

> it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out (if that's what it's called).

Yes.

> What we need to do is have an output from a computer, feed into a radio
> station transmitter (community radio station)

Thats what line out is for.

> and be able to control it independently of the PC's volume controls.

Then just disable those.

> As you can imagine, we have a lot of younger people whop

You arent allowed to call them wops anymore. Wogs is fine.

> love their techno etc. and that's great - it is just that they crank
> the thing up while their shows are one, then forget to return the
> vol. controls to normal when they leave, and our pre-recorded shows come back
> on ..... this basically means folks tuning in get ultra loud, distorted crap
> over their radios instead of medium volume, middle of the road crap, which is
> what they expect to hear.

Wouldnt it make more sense to just attenuate the pre recorded
shows so they play fine at the volume settings the wops use ?

> I imagine all we need is some kind of sound card with RCA outs, but have never
> had to buy such an item before so have no idea what we need - it doesn't need
> to be new or high spec. - just to have RCA/Pre outs so we can control what
> goes through the transmitter.

You havent made it clear what the two sources are electronically
and just which of the sliders on the mixer the wops are ramping up.

> Any suggestions much appreciated.

> The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.

[Ext User(mindesign)]

thanks for your response

the young'ns are increasing the volume from the PC when playing their
music - they aren't supposed to touch it, but of course they do. It is
simply that we need to be able to control that. I would've though Home
Theatre 5.1 type sound cards would've had RCA outs to feed into an amp. My
SGI workstation has that but I aint giving them that card!

S




"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42o7uhF1jef07U1@individual.net...
> mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote
>
>> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output from a
>> PC?
>
> No such animal. There is no preamp in a PC.
>
>> it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out (if that's what it's
>> called).
>
> Yes.
>
>> What we need to do is have an output from a computer, feed into a radio
>> station transmitter (community radio station)
>
> Thats what line out is for.
>
>> and be able to control it independently of the PC's volume controls.
>
> Then just disable those.
>
>> As you can imagine, we have a lot of younger people whop
>
> You arent allowed to call them wops anymore. Wogs is fine.
>
>> love their techno etc. and that's great - it is just that they crank
>> the thing up while their shows are one, then forget to return the
>> vol. controls to normal when they leave, and our pre-recorded shows come
>> back on ..... this basically means folks tuning in get ultra loud,
>> distorted crap over their radios instead of medium volume, middle of the
>> road crap, which is what they expect to hear.
>
> Wouldnt it make more sense to just attenuate the pre recorded
> shows so they play fine at the volume settings the wops use ?
>
>> I imagine all we need is some kind of sound card with RCA outs, but have
>> never had to buy such an item before so have no idea what we need - it
>> doesn't need to be new or high spec. - just to have RCA/Pre outs so we
>> can control what goes through the transmitter.
>
> You havent made it clear what the two sources are electronically
> and just which of the sliders on the mixer the wops are ramping up.
>
>> Any suggestions much appreciated.
>
>> The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.
>
>
>

[Ext User(The Locum Sysadmin)]

Rod Speed wrote:

>> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output from a
>> PC?
> No such animal. There is no preamp in a PC.

Headphone output would be amplified wouldn't it? I have soundcards with both
headphone and line out, and they are rather hard to tell apart.

OP: Get a 3.5 to dual-RCA lead and use that. If you don't know which
soundcard output is line-out, find out what the soundcard is (look at the
card, or if it's on the motherboard, google for the model to see what it
is) and check the port diagram. Post details of soundcard if you're still
stuck.

/LS

[Ext User(mindesign)]

Thanks but line out doesn't help - we use that and it distorts to buggery as
soon as it is turned up - I believe we need a sound card (maybe it is called
something else) that has native RCA outs so there is no amplification at
all. using an adapter won't fix it unfortunately.



"The Locum Sysadmin" <locum_sysad@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:43c6f042@duster.adelaide.on.net...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>>> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output from
>>> a
>>> PC?
>> No such animal. There is no preamp in a PC.
>
> Headphone output would be amplified wouldn't it? I have soundcards with
> both
> headphone and line out, and they are rather hard to tell apart.
>
> OP: Get a 3.5 to dual-RCA lead and use that. If you don't know which
> soundcard output is line-out, find out what the soundcard is (look at the
> card, or if it's on the motherboard, google for the model to see what it
> is) and check the port diagram. Post details of soundcard if you're still
> stuck.
>
> /LS

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote

> thanks for your response

> the young'ns are increasing the volume from the PC when playing their music -
> they aren't supposed to touch it, but of course they do.

Yes, but which of the controls on the mixer are they using to do that ?

> It is simply that we need to be able to control that. I would've though Home
> Theatre 5.1 type sound cards would've had RCA outs to feed into an amp.

They always do have a line out, thats what you're sposed to use.
Stopping kids from racking up the volume is a separate issue.

> My SGI workstation has that but I aint giving them that card!



> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:42o7uhF1jef07U1@individual.net...
>> mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote
>>
>>> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output
>>> from a PC?
>>
>> No such animal. There is no preamp in a PC.
>>
>>> it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out (if that's what it's
>>> called).
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> What we need to do is have an output from a computer, feed into a
>>> radio station transmitter (community radio station)
>>
>> Thats what line out is for.
>>
>>> and be able to control it independently of the PC's volume controls.
>>
>> Then just disable those.
>>
>>> As you can imagine, we have a lot of younger people whop
>>
>> You arent allowed to call them wops anymore. Wogs is fine.
>>
>>> love their techno etc. and that's great - it is just that they crank
>>> the thing up while their shows are one, then forget to return the
>>> vol. controls to normal when they leave, and our pre-recorded shows
>>> come back on ..... this basically means folks tuning in get ultra
>>> loud, distorted crap over their radios instead of medium volume,
>>> middle of the road crap, which is what they expect to hear.
>>
>> Wouldnt it make more sense to just attenuate the pre recorded
>> shows so they play fine at the volume settings the wops use ?
>>
>>> I imagine all we need is some kind of sound card with RCA outs, but
>>> have never had to buy such an item before so have no idea what we
>>> need - it doesn't need to be new or high spec. - just to have
>>> RCA/Pre outs so we can control what goes through the transmitter.
>>
>> You havent made it clear what the two sources are electronically
>> and just which of the sliders on the mixer the wops are ramping up.
>>
>>> Any suggestions much appreciated.
>>
>>> The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

The Locum Sysadmin <locum_sysad@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>>> ultra lame question I know, but how can
>>> I achieve a pre-amp output from a PC?

>> No such animal. There is no preamp in a PC.
>
> Headphone output would be amplified wouldn't it?

Sure, but thats an amp, not a preamp.

> I have soundcards with both headphone and line out,
> and they are rather hard to tell apart.

And they are both controlled by the mixer, thats what he
wants to stop, the kids being able to rack up the volume.

> OP: Get a 3.5 to dual-RCA lead and use that. If you don't know which
> soundcard output is line-out, find out what the soundcard is (look at
> the card, or if it's on the motherboard, google for the model to see
> what it is) and check the port diagram. Post details of soundcard if
> you're still stuck.

Thats not going to stop the kids fiddling with the volume.

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote

> Thanks but line out doesn't help - we use that and it distorts to
> buggery as soon as it is turned up - I believe we need a sound card (maybe it
> is called something else) that has native RCA outs

The physical connector has nothing to do with the signal level.

> so there is no amplification at all.

You still havent said what the source of the audio is.

> using an adapter won't fix it unfortunately.

Correct.


> "The Locum Sysadmin" <locum_sysad@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:43c6f042@duster.adelaide.on.net...
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>>> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output
>>>> from a
>>>> PC?
>>> No such animal. There is no preamp in a PC.
>>
>> Headphone output would be amplified wouldn't it? I have soundcards
>> with both
>> headphone and line out, and they are rather hard to tell apart.
>>
>> OP: Get a 3.5 to dual-RCA lead and use that. If you don't know which
>> soundcard output is line-out, find out what the soundcard is (look
>> at the card, or if it's on the motherboard, google for the model to
>> see what it is) and check the port diagram. Post details of
>> soundcard if you're still stuck.
>>
>> /LS

[Ext User(Peter Dingleberry)]

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42ok28F1jfi95U1@individual.net...
> The Locum Sysadmin <locum_sysad@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>> ultra lame question I know, but how can
>>>> I achieve a pre-amp output from a PC?
>
>>> No such animal. There is no preamp in a PC.
>>
>> Headphone output would be amplified wouldn't it?
>
> Sure, but thats an amp, not a preamp.
>
>> I have soundcards with both headphone and line out,
>> and they are rather hard to tell apart.
>
> And they are both controlled by the mixer, thats what he
> wants to stop, the kids being able to rack up the volume.

OP still hasn't told us about the sound source, or what software the PC
uses. Although I can't imagine his HP P3 800 running anything that would
support it, perhaps some software solution is available, such as having the
volume controls password-protected, or only available to an Admin account?
(Disclaimer - I haven't thought this through, just throwing it in for
consideration by the enlightened...)

[Ext User(Oldus Fartus)]

mindesign wrote:
> Hi all
>
> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output from a
> PC? it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out (if that's what it's
> called). What we need to do is have an output from a computer, feed into a
> radio station transmitter (community radio station) and be able to control
> it independently of the PC's volume controls. As you can imagine, we have a
> lot of younger people whop love their techno etc. and that's great - it is
> just that they crank the thing up while their shows are one, then forget to
> return the vol. controls to normal when they leave, and our pre-recorded
> shows come back on ..... this basically means folks tuning in get ultra
> loud, distorted crap over their radios instead of medium volume, middle of
> the road crap, which is what they expect to hear.
>
> I imagine all we need is some kind of sound card with RCA outs, but have
> never had to buy such an item before so have no idea what we need - it
> doesn't need to be new or high spec. - just to have RCA/Pre outs so we can
> control what goes through the transmitter.
>
> Any suggestions much appreciated.
>
> The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve
>
>

I think you are looking at this from the wrong direction Steve.

Volumes should (must) remain the same over all your broadcasts, and your
presenters have to learn that they may not play around with the
settings. It is up to your listeners to increase the volume if they
wish to do so, not the presenters.

As a compromise, perhaps provide the presenters with amplified
headphones or speakers where they can fiddle to their heart's content.

--
Cheers
Oldus Fartus

[Ext User(Graham Fountain)]

mindesign wrote:
> Hi all
>
> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output from a
> PC? it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out (if that's what it's
> called). What we need to do is have an output from a computer, feed into a
> radio station transmitter (community radio station) and be able to control
> it independently of the PC's volume controls. As you can imagine, we have a
> lot of younger people whop love their techno etc. and that's great - it is
> just that they crank the thing up while their shows are one, then forget to
> return the vol. controls to normal when they leave, and our pre-recorded
> shows come back on ..... this basically means folks tuning in get ultra
> loud, distorted crap over their radios instead of medium volume, middle of
> the road crap, which is what they expect to hear.
>
> I imagine all we need is some kind of sound card with RCA outs, but have
> never had to buy such an item before so have no idea what we need - it
> doesn't need to be new or high spec. - just to have RCA/Pre outs so we can
> control what goes through the transmitter.
While some older sound cards offered amplified outputs (suitable for
directly driving non-amplified speakers) and line level outputs, most
modern sound cards only offer line-level outputs. This is the connection
that you would use to take the audio from the computer to the panel. ALL
sound cards will alter the level at the line-out depending on the volume
selected using the mixer applet in windows/whatever-os-you-use. This is
however not what your real problem is. You are running into problems due
to incorrect use of the equipment by users.
Radio stations have always had to deal with sound sources at different
volumes. Whether it be due to people who talk at different distances
from the Mic, or different levels of volumes of the recorded music the
problems are the same. There are 2 ways of dealing with this -
compression or manual level adjustment. compression reduces the
amplification of low-strength signals while increasing the amplification
of high-strength signals. The end result is a signal going into the
transmitter which should be close to optimal. The other method is manual
level adjustment. This is using the sliders on your panel to maintain
the volume level at optimal. The radio station I used to work at, we had
to maintain volume so that all the green leds on the signal were usually
lit, with just the occasional flick into yellow, and it should never
enter red, as the risk of clipping is higher. Depending on your VU
meters you may have different target levels.
Your computer should be adjusted to about a mid-level, such that for the
quietest signals played from it, you can adjust them to normal level
using the slider on the panel, yet the loudest signals played on it
still don't clip. At that point the computer volume control needs to be
left untouched, and all volume adjustments then made using the mixer
panel. You need to educate your presenters that under no circumstances
are they to ever adjust the volume on the computer - possibly to the
point of disabling (or maybe even deleting) the mixer applet - and then
using the control panel to tweak the output volume. When teenagers are
involved in a community radio station there is only two words for you -
GOOD LUCK.

>
> Any suggestions much appreciated.
>
> The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve
>
>

[Ext User(mindesign)]

conversation from many years ago

"Ok dad I get it - DON'T take these keys - the ones on the night stand to
your new cart - DEFinitely DO NOT take them from that nightstand there and
DEFinitely DO NOT put them in the car downstairs and reverse it through the
garage door and down the street to see my mates.....yup....I get it"

In other words - I appreciate that no one should mess around with the
controls.......but this is a struggling community station that needs all the
presenters it can muster - such rules, while in place never prevent people
tweaking things here and there. The consequences to date have been nil,
because those in power are terrified more of losing young presenters than
causing deafness. I agree with all you said though and have been trying to
find simple solutions.

To try and answer the other queries: the software is winamp - the volume
controls are on it and in windows and as far as I can work out cannot be
over-ridden. I am about to try some dedicated scheduling software but doubt
it will address this issue.

Basically I wanted to know if there exists a soundcard that has RCA outs,
which implies to me at least, that it would make any audio output perform
like a hi fi component, requiring all amplification to be done either
through the mixing desk or at transmitter level and thereby alleviating any
of the problems simply and finally. With all the Home TheatrePC stuff coming
out and the high end audio engineering stuff around these days I honestly
thought I would get a single reply telling me which card to buy.

It has been fun though!

Hope this clarifies things at least a little

thanks

Steve



"Oldus Fartus" <denisand@iiNOSPAMnet.net.au> wrote in message
news:43c74196$0$15040$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
> mindesign wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output from a
>> PC? it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out (if that's what it's
>> called). What we need to do is have an output from a computer, feed into
>> a radio station transmitter (community radio station) and be able to
>> control it independently of the PC's volume controls. As you can imagine,
>> we have a lot of younger people whop love their techno etc. and that's
>> great - it is just that they crank the thing up while their shows are
>> one, then forget to return the vol. controls to normal when they leave,
>> and our pre-recorded shows come back on ..... this basically means folks
>> tuning in get ultra loud, distorted crap over their radios instead of
>> medium volume, middle of the road crap, which is what they expect to
>> hear.
>>
>> I imagine all we need is some kind of sound card with RCA outs, but have
>> never had to buy such an item before so have no idea what we need - it
>> doesn't need to be new or high spec. - just to have RCA/Pre outs so we
>> can control what goes through the transmitter.
>>
>> Any suggestions much appreciated.
>>
>> The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>
> I think you are looking at this from the wrong direction Steve.
>
> Volumes should (must) remain the same over all your broadcasts, and your
> presenters have to learn that they may not play around with the settings.
> It is up to your listeners to increase the volume if they wish to do so,
> not the presenters.
>
> As a compromise, perhaps provide the presenters with amplified headphones
> or speakers where they can fiddle to their heart's content.
>
> --
> Cheers
> Oldus Fartus

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

Peter Dingleberry <Peter_DingleberryREMOVE@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:42ok28F1jfi95U1@individual.net...
>> The Locum Sysadmin <locum_sysad@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>
>>>>> ultra lame question I know, but how can
>>>>> I achieve a pre-amp output from a PC?
>>
>>>> No such animal. There is no preamp in a PC.
>>>
>>> Headphone output would be amplified wouldn't it?
>>
>> Sure, but thats an amp, not a preamp.
>>
>>> I have soundcards with both headphone and line out,
>>> and they are rather hard to tell apart.
>>
>> And they are both controlled by the mixer, thats what he
>> wants to stop, the kids being able to rack up the volume.
>
> OP still hasn't told us about the sound source, or what software the
> PC uses. Although I can't imagine his HP P3 800 running anything that
> would support it, perhaps some software solution is available, such
> as having the volume controls password-protected, or only available
> to an Admin account? (Disclaimer - I haven't thought this through,
> just throwing it in for consideration by the enlightened...)

That PC will support that stuff fine.

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote

> conversation from many years ago

> "Ok dad I get it - DON'T take these keys - the ones on the night
> stand to your new cart - DEFinitely DO NOT take them from that
> nightstand there and DEFinitely DO NOT put them in the car downstairs and
> reverse it through the garage door and down the street to see my
> mates.....yup....I get it"

You should have reminded him who would be picking the nursing home.

> In other words - I appreciate that no one should mess around with the
> controls.......but this is a struggling community station that needs all the
> presenters it can muster - such rules, while in place never prevent people
> tweaking things here and there. The consequences to date have been nil,
> because those in power are terrified more of losing young presenters than
> causing deafness.

Yeah, perfectly sensible approach.

> I agree with all you said though and have been trying to find simple
> solutions.

You still havent spelt out the detail well enough to be able to say much.

If the kids just rack the volume up so THEY can hear it
louder and dont care about level thats being broadcast,
the obvious approach is to have a separate amp with
its own volume control for what THEY listen to. Then
it doesnt matter a damn what level they set on that.

If on the other hand they ramp up the volume of what
is BROADCAST, its a little harder but still doable.

> To try and answer the other queries: the software is winamp

What is the source into winamp tho ?
Is its physical CD players etc or what ?

> - the volume controls are on it and in windows and as far as I can work out
> cannot be over-ridden.

It isnt that hard to set limits on what the audio can be ramped up to.

> I am about to try some dedicated scheduling
> software but doubt it will address this issue.

Cant see why not if the kids are only at the controls in well
specified times. It'd be harder if the kids can come and go and
you basically switch to the canned feed when no kid is available.

> Basically I wanted to know if there exists a soundcard that has RCA outs,

You keep massively confusing the connector used with the functionality.

> which implies to me at least, that it would make any audio output perform like
> a hi fi component, requiring all amplification to be done either through the
> mixing desk or at transmitter level and thereby alleviating any of the
> problems simply and finally.

You can do all that without needing to have
anything special sound card wise in the PC.

Just how you do it varys with the detail of the current
setup which you keep failing to specify properly.

> With all the Home TheatrePC stuff coming out and the high end audio
> engineering stuff around these days I honestly thought I would get a single
> reply telling me which card to buy.

There is no 'card to buy' which has no volume control on the
mixer in winamp which is used to play physical CDs or mpgs etc.

It wouldnt be hard to prevent access to the mixer control in the
PC, depending on the OS being used, and give the kids a separate
amp with a volume control on that if they just want to increase the
volume of what they hear themselves, as opposed to what is broadcast.

> It has been fun though!

> Hope this clarifies things at least a little

Not even a little unfortunately.


> "Oldus Fartus" <denisand@iiNOSPAMnet.net.au> wrote in message
> news:43c74196$0$15040$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
>> mindesign wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output
>>> from a PC? it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out (if that's
>>> what it's called). What we need to do is have an output from a
>>> computer, feed into a radio station transmitter (community radio
>>> station) and be able to control it independently of the PC's volume
>>> controls. As you can imagine, we have a lot of younger people whop
>>> love their techno etc. and that's great - it is just that they
>>> crank the thing up while their shows are one, then forget to return
>>> the vol. controls to normal when they leave, and our pre-recorded
>>> shows come back on ..... this basically means folks tuning in get
>>> ultra loud, distorted crap over their radios instead of medium
>>> volume, middle of the road crap, which is what they expect to hear.
>>>
>>> I imagine all we need is some kind of sound card with RCA outs, but
>>> have never had to buy such an item before so have no idea what we
>>> need - it doesn't need to be new or high spec. - just to have
>>> RCA/Pre outs so we can control what goes through the transmitter.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions much appreciated.
>>>
>>> The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I think you are looking at this from the wrong direction Steve.
>>
>> Volumes should (must) remain the same over all your broadcasts, and
>> your presenters have to learn that they may not play around with the
>> settings. It is up to your listeners to increase the volume if they
>> wish to do so, not the presenters.
>>
>> As a compromise, perhaps provide the presenters with amplified
>> headphones or speakers where they can fiddle to their heart's
>> content. --
>> Cheers
>> Oldus Fartus

[Ext User(mindesign)]

my understanding of RCA out is that is an UNamplified source other than a
base signal - this is not from PC experience but from HiFi experience -
basically my understanding is that if it is RCA out, then all amplification
is done externally, via another piece of equipment. Therefore a CD player -
Tape Deck etc that has only RCA's out or even a receiver that does, either
has no power amplification or has bypassed it at these points - I would've
thought a soundcard would be available that acts in the same manner and the
control in Windows or on a winamp are really not volume as such, but an
attenuator only. It has been years since I have had to think about this and
I am obviously wrong, but I am struggling to get my head around it.

Anyway, I feel sure everyone is sick of trying to explain it - with GOOD
reason! We have a meeting tomorrow to address a bunch of things and I will
again reiterate that no one is to mess with the buttons ...... the fun
continues!
Thanks

Steve





"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42qnbbF1ko4aqU1@individual.net...
> mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote
>
>> conversation from many years ago
>
>> "Ok dad I get it - DON'T take these keys - the ones on the night
>> stand to your new cart - DEFinitely DO NOT take them from that
>> nightstand there and DEFinitely DO NOT put them in the car downstairs and
>> reverse it through the garage door and down the street to see my
>> mates.....yup....I get it"
>
> You should have reminded him who would be picking the nursing home.
>
>> In other words - I appreciate that no one should mess around with the
>> controls.......but this is a struggling community station that needs all
>> the presenters it can muster - such rules, while in place never prevent
>> people tweaking things here and there. The consequences to date have been
>> nil, because those in power are terrified more of losing young presenters
>> than causing deafness.
>
> Yeah, perfectly sensible approach.
>
>> I agree with all you said though and have been trying to find simple
>> solutions.
>
> You still havent spelt out the detail well enough to be able to say much.
>
> If the kids just rack the volume up so THEY can hear it
> louder and dont care about level thats being broadcast,
> the obvious approach is to have a separate amp with
> its own volume control for what THEY listen to. Then
> it doesnt matter a damn what level they set on that.
>
> If on the other hand they ramp up the volume of what
> is BROADCAST, its a little harder but still doable.
>
>> To try and answer the other queries: the software is winamp
>
> What is the source into winamp tho ?
> Is its physical CD players etc or what ?
>
>> - the volume controls are on it and in windows and as far as I can work
>> out cannot be over-ridden.
>
> It isnt that hard to set limits on what the audio can be ramped up to.
>
>> I am about to try some dedicated scheduling
>> software but doubt it will address this issue.
>
> Cant see why not if the kids are only at the controls in well
> specified times. It'd be harder if the kids can come and go and
> you basically switch to the canned feed when no kid is available.
>
>> Basically I wanted to know if there exists a soundcard that has RCA outs,
>
> You keep massively confusing the connector used with the functionality.
>
>> which implies to me at least, that it would make any audio output perform
>> like a hi fi component, requiring all amplification to be done either
>> through the mixing desk or at transmitter level and thereby alleviating
>> any of the problems simply and finally.
>
> You can do all that without needing to have
> anything special sound card wise in the PC.
>
> Just how you do it varys with the detail of the current
> setup which you keep failing to specify properly.
>
>> With all the Home TheatrePC stuff coming out and the high end audio
>> engineering stuff around these days I honestly thought I would get a
>> single reply telling me which card to buy.
>
> There is no 'card to buy' which has no volume control on the
> mixer in winamp which is used to play physical CDs or mpgs etc.
>
> It wouldnt be hard to prevent access to the mixer control in the
> PC, depending on the OS being used, and give the kids a separate
> amp with a volume control on that if they just want to increase the
> volume of what they hear themselves, as opposed to what is broadcast.
>
>> It has been fun though!
>
>> Hope this clarifies things at least a little
>
> Not even a little unfortunately.
>
>
>> "Oldus Fartus" <denisand@iiNOSPAMnet.net.au> wrote in message
>> news:43c74196$0$15040$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
>>> mindesign wrote:
>>>> Hi all
>>>>
>>>> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output
>>>> from a PC? it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out (if that's
>>>> what it's called). What we need to do is have an output from a
>>>> computer, feed into a radio station transmitter (community radio
>>>> station) and be able to control it independently of the PC's volume
>>>> controls. As you can imagine, we have a lot of younger people whop
>>>> love their techno etc. and that's great - it is just that they
>>>> crank the thing up while their shows are one, then forget to return
>>>> the vol. controls to normal when they leave, and our pre-recorded
>>>> shows come back on ..... this basically means folks tuning in get
>>>> ultra loud, distorted crap over their radios instead of medium
>>>> volume, middle of the road crap, which is what they expect to hear.
>>>>
>>>> I imagine all we need is some kind of sound card with RCA outs, but
>>>> have never had to buy such an item before so have no idea what we
>>>> need - it doesn't need to be new or high spec. - just to have
>>>> RCA/Pre outs so we can control what goes through the transmitter.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think you are looking at this from the wrong direction Steve.
>>>
>>> Volumes should (must) remain the same over all your broadcasts, and
>>> your presenters have to learn that they may not play around with the
>>> settings. It is up to your listeners to increase the volume if they
>>> wish to do so, not the presenters.
>>>
>>> As a compromise, perhaps provide the presenters with amplified
>>> headphones or speakers where they can fiddle to their heart's
>>> content. --
>>> Cheers
>>> Oldus Fartus
>
>

[Ext User(Colin ®)]

No, not really.

A turntable with a magnetic pick-up will produce microvolts of output
across a high impedance - megohms typically. CD digital output circuitry
will produce whatever the thing is designed to do.

( Big memory job here - TAKE IT EASY ON THE FLAMES)

Line-out is a standard level of output with no control or quality
processing - pure audio from the source. The amp. does all the tone,
equalisation, volume etc.

AFAIR it is 300 mV into 600 ohms ( maybe 300 ohms or a range ????). It's a
standard set so any device can output or take input at a known level.

Speaker level output is whatever the amp. can produce into 4,8 or 16 ohms
typical

Microphone level output is extremely low but I think higher than a pick-up
(but is high impedance - 10K ohms typical )

PCs seem to be out of step here because the 'line-out' socket has a vol.
control. The Line-Out on your TV, DVD, VCR, CD player etc. is a flat level
and does not disapper when you plug headphones in.

So, depending on the device, there is going to be some electronics involved
to amplify and determine the impedance of the signal source.



"mindesign" <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote in message
news:XgWxf.969$Xc7.22884@nasal.pacific.net.au...
> my understanding of RCA out is that is an UNamplified source other than a
> base signal - this is not from PC experience but from HiFi experience -
> basically my understanding is that if it is RCA out, then all
> amplification is done externally, via another piece of equipment.
> Therefore a CD player - Tape Deck etc that has only RCA's out or even a
> receiver that does, either has no power amplification or has bypassed it
> at these points - I would've thought a soundcard would be available that
> acts in the same manner and the control in Windows or on a winamp are
> really not volume as such, but an attenuator only. It has been years since
> I have had to think about this and I am obviously wrong, but I am
> struggling to get my head around it.
>
> Anyway, I feel sure everyone is sick of trying to explain it - with GOOD
> reason! We have a meeting tomorrow to address a bunch of things and I will
> again reiterate that no one is to mess with the buttons ...... the fun
> continues!
> Thanks
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:42qnbbF1ko4aqU1@individual.net...
>> mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote
>>
>>> conversation from many years ago
>>
>>> "Ok dad I get it - DON'T take these keys - the ones on the night
>>> stand to your new cart - DEFinitely DO NOT take them from that
>>> nightstand there and DEFinitely DO NOT put them in the car downstairs
>>> and reverse it through the garage door and down the street to see my
>>> mates.....yup....I get it"
>>
>> You should have reminded him who would be picking the nursing home.
>>
>>> In other words - I appreciate that no one should mess around with the
>>> controls.......but this is a struggling community station that needs all
>>> the presenters it can muster - such rules, while in place never prevent
>>> people tweaking things here and there. The consequences to date have
>>> been nil, because those in power are terrified more of losing young
>>> presenters than causing deafness.
>>
>> Yeah, perfectly sensible approach.
>>
>>> I agree with all you said though and have been trying to find simple
>>> solutions.
>>
>> You still havent spelt out the detail well enough to be able to say much.
>>
>> If the kids just rack the volume up so THEY can hear it
>> louder and dont care about level thats being broadcast,
>> the obvious approach is to have a separate amp with
>> its own volume control for what THEY listen to. Then
>> it doesnt matter a damn what level they set on that.
>>
>> If on the other hand they ramp up the volume of what
>> is BROADCAST, its a little harder but still doable.
>>
>>> To try and answer the other queries: the software is winamp
>>
>> What is the source into winamp tho ?
>> Is its physical CD players etc or what ?
>>
>>> - the volume controls are on it and in windows and as far as I can work
>>> out cannot be over-ridden.
>>
>> It isnt that hard to set limits on what the audio can be ramped up to.
>>
>>> I am about to try some dedicated scheduling
>>> software but doubt it will address this issue.
>>
>> Cant see why not if the kids are only at the controls in well
>> specified times. It'd be harder if the kids can come and go and
>> you basically switch to the canned feed when no kid is available.
>>
>>> Basically I wanted to know if there exists a soundcard that has RCA
>>> outs,
>>
>> You keep massively confusing the connector used with the functionality.
>>
>>> which implies to me at least, that it would make any audio output
>>> perform like a hi fi component, requiring all amplification to be done
>>> either through the mixing desk or at transmitter level and thereby
>>> alleviating any of the problems simply and finally.
>>
>> You can do all that without needing to have
>> anything special sound card wise in the PC.
>>
>> Just how you do it varys with the detail of the current
>> setup which you keep failing to specify properly.
>>
>>> With all the Home TheatrePC stuff coming out and the high end audio
>>> engineering stuff around these days I honestly thought I would get a
>>> single reply telling me which card to buy.
>>
>> There is no 'card to buy' which has no volume control on the
>> mixer in winamp which is used to play physical CDs or mpgs etc.
>>
>> It wouldnt be hard to prevent access to the mixer control in the
>> PC, depending on the OS being used, and give the kids a separate
>> amp with a volume control on that if they just want to increase the
>> volume of what they hear themselves, as opposed to what is broadcast.
>>
>>> It has been fun though!
>>
>>> Hope this clarifies things at least a little
>>
>> Not even a little unfortunately.
>>
>>
>>> "Oldus Fartus" <denisand@iiNOSPAMnet.net.au> wrote in message
>>> news:43c74196$0$15040$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
>>>> mindesign wrote:
>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output
>>>>> from a PC? it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out (if that's
>>>>> what it's called). What we need to do is have an output from a
>>>>> computer, feed into a radio station transmitter (community radio
>>>>> station) and be able to control it independently of the PC's volume
>>>>> controls. As you can imagine, we have a lot of younger people whop
>>>>> love their techno etc. and that's great - it is just that they
>>>>> crank the thing up while their shows are one, then forget to return
>>>>> the vol. controls to normal when they leave, and our pre-recorded
>>>>> shows come back on ..... this basically means folks tuning in get
>>>>> ultra loud, distorted crap over their radios instead of medium
>>>>> volume, middle of the road crap, which is what they expect to hear.
>>>>>
>>>>> I imagine all we need is some kind of sound card with RCA outs, but
>>>>> have never had to buy such an item before so have no idea what we
>>>>> need - it doesn't need to be new or high spec. - just to have
>>>>> RCA/Pre outs so we can control what goes through the transmitter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions much appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think you are looking at this from the wrong direction Steve.
>>>>
>>>> Volumes should (must) remain the same over all your broadcasts, and
>>>> your presenters have to learn that they may not play around with the
>>>> settings. It is up to your listeners to increase the volume if they
>>>> wish to do so, not the presenters.
>>>>
>>>> As a compromise, perhaps provide the presenters with amplified
>>>> headphones or speakers where they can fiddle to their heart's
>>>> content. --
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Oldus Fartus
>>
>>
>
>

[Ext User(Colin ®)]

Just re-read what you said and I think I have said basically the same except
that line-out is amplified ( but in a particular way)

DERR !!

"mindesign" <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote in message
news:XgWxf.969$Xc7.22884@nasal.pacific.net.au...
> my understanding of RCA out is that is an UNamplified source other than a
> base signal - this is not from PC experience but from HiFi experience -
> basically my understanding is that if it is RCA out, then all
> amplification is done externally, via another piece of equipment.
> Therefore a CD player - Tape Deck etc that has only RCA's out or even a
> receiver that does, either has no power amplification or has bypassed it
> at these points - I would've thought a soundcard would be available that
> acts in the same manner and the control in Windows or on a winamp are
> really not volume as such, but an attenuator only. It has been years since
> I have had to think about this and I am obviously wrong, but I am
> struggling to get my head around it.
>
> Anyway, I feel sure everyone is sick of trying to explain it - with GOOD
> reason! We have a meeting tomorrow to address a bunch of things and I will
> again reiterate that no one is to mess with the buttons ...... the fun
> continues!
> Thanks
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:42qnbbF1ko4aqU1@individual.net...
>> mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote
>>
>>> conversation from many years ago
>>
>>> "Ok dad I get it - DON'T take these keys - the ones on the night
>>> stand to your new cart - DEFinitely DO NOT take them from that
>>> nightstand there and DEFinitely DO NOT put them in the car downstairs
>>> and reverse it through the garage door and down the street to see my
>>> mates.....yup....I get it"
>>
>> You should have reminded him who would be picking the nursing home.
>>
>>> In other words - I appreciate that no one should mess around with the
>>> controls.......but this is a struggling community station that needs all
>>> the presenters it can muster - such rules, while in place never prevent
>>> people tweaking things here and there. The consequences to date have
>>> been nil, because those in power are terrified more of losing young
>>> presenters than causing deafness.
>>
>> Yeah, perfectly sensible approach.
>>
>>> I agree with all you said though and have been trying to find simple
>>> solutions.
>>
>> You still havent spelt out the detail well enough to be able to say much.
>>
>> If the kids just rack the volume up so THEY can hear it
>> louder and dont care about level thats being broadcast,
>> the obvious approach is to have a separate amp with
>> its own volume control for what THEY listen to. Then
>> it doesnt matter a damn what level they set on that.
>>
>> If on the other hand they ramp up the volume of what
>> is BROADCAST, its a little harder but still doable.
>>
>>> To try and answer the other queries: the software is winamp
>>
>> What is the source into winamp tho ?
>> Is its physical CD players etc or what ?
>>
>>> - the volume controls are on it and in windows and as far as I can work
>>> out cannot be over-ridden.
>>
>> It isnt that hard to set limits on what the audio can be ramped up to.
>>
>>> I am about to try some dedicated scheduling
>>> software but doubt it will address this issue.
>>
>> Cant see why not if the kids are only at the controls in well
>> specified times. It'd be harder if the kids can come and go and
>> you basically switch to the canned feed when no kid is available.
>>
>>> Basically I wanted to know if there exists a soundcard that has RCA
>>> outs,
>>
>> You keep massively confusing the connector used with the functionality.
>>
>>> which implies to me at least, that it would make any audio output
>>> perform like a hi fi component, requiring all amplification to be done
>>> either through the mixing desk or at transmitter level and thereby
>>> alleviating any of the problems simply and finally.
>>
>> You can do all that without needing to have
>> anything special sound card wise in the PC.
>>
>> Just how you do it varys with the detail of the current
>> setup which you keep failing to specify properly.
>>
>>> With all the Home TheatrePC stuff coming out and the high end audio
>>> engineering stuff around these days I honestly thought I would get a
>>> single reply telling me which card to buy.
>>
>> There is no 'card to buy' which has no volume control on the
>> mixer in winamp which is used to play physical CDs or mpgs etc.
>>
>> It wouldnt be hard to prevent access to the mixer control in the
>> PC, depending on the OS being used, and give the kids a separate
>> amp with a volume control on that if they just want to increase the
>> volume of what they hear themselves, as opposed to what is broadcast.
>>
>>> It has been fun though!
>>
>>> Hope this clarifies things at least a little
>>
>> Not even a little unfortunately.
>>
>>
>>> "Oldus Fartus" <denisand@iiNOSPAMnet.net.au> wrote in message
>>> news:43c74196$0$15040$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
>>>> mindesign wrote:
>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output
>>>>> from a PC? it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out (if that's
>>>>> what it's called). What we need to do is have an output from a
>>>>> computer, feed into a radio station transmitter (community radio
>>>>> station) and be able to control it independently of the PC's volume
>>>>> controls. As you can imagine, we have a lot of younger people whop
>>>>> love their techno etc. and that's great - it is just that they
>>>>> crank the thing up while their shows are one, then forget to return
>>>>> the vol. controls to normal when they leave, and our pre-recorded
>>>>> shows come back on ..... this basically means folks tuning in get
>>>>> ultra loud, distorted crap over their radios instead of medium
>>>>> volume, middle of the road crap, which is what they expect to hear.
>>>>>
>>>>> I imagine all we need is some kind of sound card with RCA outs, but
>>>>> have never had to buy such an item before so have no idea what we
>>>>> need - it doesn't need to be new or high spec. - just to have
>>>>> RCA/Pre outs so we can control what goes through the transmitter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestions much appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think you are looking at this from the wrong direction Steve.
>>>>
>>>> Volumes should (must) remain the same over all your broadcasts, and
>>>> your presenters have to learn that they may not play around with the
>>>> settings. It is up to your listeners to increase the volume if they
>>>> wish to do so, not the presenters.
>>>>
>>>> As a compromise, perhaps provide the presenters with amplified
>>>> headphones or speakers where they can fiddle to their heart's
>>>> content. --
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Oldus Fartus
>>
>>
>
>

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote

> my understanding of RCA out

Again, you keep comprehensively mangling
the CONNECTOR used and the funtionality.

> is that is an UNamplified source other than a base signal

There is no 'base signal' with a PC sound card,
in spades with the digital audio from a CD drive
or mp3 that you're playing using winamp.

> - this is not from PC experience but from HiFi experience - basically my
> understanding is that if it is RCA out, then all amplification is done
> externally, via another piece of equipment.

Thats just plain wrong even with HiFi equipment.

Most obviously with a turntable where there is always a
preamp before that line out which you keep calling RCA out.

The ONLY difference with that output is that it isnt affected
by the VOLUME CONTROL. The amplification is FIXED.

> Therefore a CD player - Tape Deck etc that has only RCA's
> out or even a receiver that does, either has no power amplification

Corse it has. A tape deck cant deliver the signal
from the heads directly to an amp unamplified.

A CD player in spades, its DIGITAL coming from the head
and you require a D/A converter and amplifier in the CD player.

The ONLY difference is that there is no VOLUME CONTROL.

That comes later in the amp.

> or has bypassed it at these points - I would've thought a soundcard would be
> available that acts in the same manner

It doesnt have a connection for a turntable pickup,
its essentially replacing the HiFi amp with its volume
control, this time done in the mixer in software.

> and the control in Windows or on a winamp are really not volume as such, but
> an attenuator only.

Thats just plain wrong with the mic input to a sound card.

> It has been years since I have had to think about this and I am obviously
> wrong, but I am struggling to get my head around it.

Yeah, thats obvious.

> Anyway, I feel sure everyone is sick of trying to explain it - with GOOD
> reason! We have a meeting tomorrow to address a bunch of things and I will
> again reiterate that no one is to mess with the buttons...... the fun
> continues!

Why didnt you answer the question about whether the kids are
ramping up the volume so what THEY can hear is louder, or
whether they are trying to increase the level that is BROADCAST ?

The solution is obvious if they just want to hear it louder themselves,
just give them a separate amp for what they listen to themselves,
and dont allow them to fiddle with the level that is broadcast.
They can then fiddle with the volume control on that amp and
you couldnt care less about the level they choose to use until
they go completely deaf and you cant tell them when they will
be running the show next.


> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:42qnbbF1ko4aqU1@individual.net...
>> mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote
>>
>>> conversation from many years ago
>>
>>> "Ok dad I get it - DON'T take these keys - the ones on the night
>>> stand to your new cart - DEFinitely DO NOT take them from that
>>> nightstand there and DEFinitely DO NOT put them in the car
>>> downstairs and reverse it through the garage door and down the
>>> street to see my mates.....yup....I get it"
>>
>> You should have reminded him who would be picking the nursing home.
>>
>>> In other words - I appreciate that no one should mess around with
>>> the controls.......but this is a struggling community station that
>>> needs all the presenters it can muster - such rules, while in place
>>> never prevent people tweaking things here and there. The
>>> consequences to date have been nil, because those in power are
>>> terrified more of losing young presenters than causing deafness.
>>
>> Yeah, perfectly sensible approach.
>>
>>> I agree with all you said though and have been trying to find simple
>>> solutions.
>>
>> You still havent spelt out the detail well enough to be able to say
>> much. If the kids just rack the volume up so THEY can hear it
>> louder and dont care about level thats being broadcast,
>> the obvious approach is to have a separate amp with
>> its own volume control for what THEY listen to. Then
>> it doesnt matter a damn what level they set on that.
>>
>> If on the other hand they ramp up the volume of what
>> is BROADCAST, its a little harder but still doable.
>>
>>> To try and answer the other queries: the software is winamp
>>
>> What is the source into winamp tho ?
>> Is its physical CD players etc or what ?
>>
>>> - the volume controls are on it and in windows and as far as I can
>>> work out cannot be over-ridden.
>>
>> It isnt that hard to set limits on what the audio can be ramped up
>> to.
>>> I am about to try some dedicated scheduling
>>> software but doubt it will address this issue.
>>
>> Cant see why not if the kids are only at the controls in well
>> specified times. It'd be harder if the kids can come and go and
>> you basically switch to the canned feed when no kid is available.
>>
>>> Basically I wanted to know if there exists a soundcard that has RCA
>>> outs,
>>
>> You keep massively confusing the connector used with the
>> functionality.
>>> which implies to me at least, that it would make any audio output
>>> perform like a hi fi component, requiring all amplification to be
>>> done either through the mixing desk or at transmitter level and
>>> thereby alleviating any of the problems simply and finally.
>>
>> You can do all that without needing to have
>> anything special sound card wise in the PC.
>>
>> Just how you do it varys with the detail of the current
>> setup which you keep failing to specify properly.
>>
>>> With all the Home TheatrePC stuff coming out and the high end audio
>>> engineering stuff around these days I honestly thought I would get a
>>> single reply telling me which card to buy.
>>
>> There is no 'card to buy' which has no volume control on the
>> mixer in winamp which is used to play physical CDs or mpgs etc.
>>
>> It wouldnt be hard to prevent access to the mixer control in the
>> PC, depending on the OS being used, and give the kids a separate
>> amp with a volume control on that if they just want to increase the
>> volume of what they hear themselves, as opposed to what is broadcast.
>>
>>> It has been fun though!
>>
>>> Hope this clarifies things at least a little
>>
>> Not even a little unfortunately.
>>
>>
>>> "Oldus Fartus" <denisand@iiNOSPAMnet.net.au> wrote in message
>>> news:43c74196$0$15040$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
>>>> mindesign wrote:
>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>
>>>>> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output
>>>>> from a PC? it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out (if
>>>>> that's what it's called). What we need to do is have an output
>>>>> from a computer, feed into a radio station transmitter (community
>>>>> radio station) and be able to control it independently of the
>>>>> PC's volume controls. As you can imagine, we have a lot of
>>>>> younger people whop love their techno etc. and that's great - it
>>>>> is just that they crank the thing up while their shows are one,
>>>>> then forget to return the vol. controls to normal when they
>>>>> leave, and our pre-recorded shows come back on ..... this
>>>>> basically means folks tuning in get ultra loud, distorted crap
>>>>> over their radios instead of medium volume, middle of the road
>>>>> crap, which is what they expect to hear. I imagine all we need is some
>>>>> kind of sound card with RCA outs,
>>>>> but have never had to buy such an item before so have no idea
>>>>> what we need - it doesn't need to be new or high spec. - just to
>>>>> have RCA/Pre outs so we can control what goes through the
>>>>> transmitter. Any suggestions much appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think you are looking at this from the wrong direction Steve.
>>>>
>>>> Volumes should (must) remain the same over all your broadcasts, and
>>>> your presenters have to learn that they may not play around with
>>>> the settings. It is up to your listeners to increase the volume if
>>>> they wish to do so, not the presenters.
>>>>
>>>> As a compromise, perhaps provide the presenters with amplified
>>>> headphones or speakers where they can fiddle to their heart's
>>>> content. --
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Oldus Fartus

[Ext User(mindesign)]

in the OP I stated that the young people messing around with the volume
affects those "tuning in" - so who do you think that is? It wouldn't matter
to anyone if no LISTENER was affected by this issue.


"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42qtdkF1jjhs4U1@individual.net...
> mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote
>
>> my understanding of RCA out
>
> Again, you keep comprehensively mangling
> the CONNECTOR used and the funtionality.
>
>> is that is an UNamplified source other than a base signal
>
> There is no 'base signal' with a PC sound card,
> in spades with the digital audio from a CD drive
> or mp3 that you're playing using winamp.
>
>> - this is not from PC experience but from HiFi experience - basically my
>> understanding is that if it is RCA out, then all amplification is done
>> externally, via another piece of equipment.
>
> Thats just plain wrong even with HiFi equipment.
>
> Most obviously with a turntable where there is always a
> preamp before that line out which you keep calling RCA out.
>
> The ONLY difference with that output is that it isnt affected
> by the VOLUME CONTROL. The amplification is FIXED.
>
>> Therefore a CD player - Tape Deck etc that has only RCA's
>> out or even a receiver that does, either has no power amplification
>
> Corse it has. A tape deck cant deliver the signal
> from the heads directly to an amp unamplified.
>
> A CD player in spades, its DIGITAL coming from the head
> and you require a D/A converter and amplifier in the CD player.
>
> The ONLY difference is that there is no VOLUME CONTROL.
>
> That comes later in the amp.
>
>> or has bypassed it at these points - I would've thought a soundcard would
>> be available that acts in the same manner
>
> It doesnt have a connection for a turntable pickup,
> its essentially replacing the HiFi amp with its volume
> control, this time done in the mixer in software.
>
>> and the control in Windows or on a winamp are really not volume as such,
>> but an attenuator only.
>
> Thats just plain wrong with the mic input to a sound card.
>
>> It has been years since I have had to think about this and I am obviously
>> wrong, but I am struggling to get my head around it.
>
> Yeah, thats obvious.
>
>> Anyway, I feel sure everyone is sick of trying to explain it - with GOOD
>> reason! We have a meeting tomorrow to address a bunch of things and I
>> will again reiterate that no one is to mess with the buttons...... the
>> fun continues!
>
> Why didnt you answer the question about whether the kids are
> ramping up the volume so what THEY can hear is louder, or
> whether they are trying to increase the level that is BROADCAST ?
>
> The solution is obvious if they just want to hear it louder themselves,
> just give them a separate amp for what they listen to themselves,
> and dont allow them to fiddle with the level that is broadcast.
> They can then fiddle with the volume control on that amp and
> you couldnt care less about the level they choose to use until
> they go completely deaf and you cant tell them when they will
> be running the show next.
>
>
>> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:42qnbbF1ko4aqU1@individual.net...
>>> mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote
>>>
>>>> conversation from many years ago
>>>
>>>> "Ok dad I get it - DON'T take these keys - the ones on the night
>>>> stand to your new cart - DEFinitely DO NOT take them from that
>>>> nightstand there and DEFinitely DO NOT put them in the car
>>>> downstairs and reverse it through the garage door and down the
>>>> street to see my mates.....yup....I get it"
>>>
>>> You should have reminded him who would be picking the nursing home.
>>>
>>>> In other words - I appreciate that no one should mess around with
>>>> the controls.......but this is a struggling community station that
>>>> needs all the presenters it can muster - such rules, while in place
>>>> never prevent people tweaking things here and there. The
>>>> consequences to date have been nil, because those in power are
>>>> terrified more of losing young presenters than causing deafness.
>>>
>>> Yeah, perfectly sensible approach.
>>>
>>>> I agree with all you said though and have been trying to find simple
>>>> solutions.
>>>
>>> You still havent spelt out the detail well enough to be able to say
>>> much. If the kids just rack the volume up so THEY can hear it
>>> louder and dont care about level thats being broadcast,
>>> the obvious approach is to have a separate amp with
>>> its own volume control for what THEY listen to. Then
>>> it doesnt matter a damn what level they set on that.
>>>
>>> If on the other hand they ramp up the volume of what
>>> is BROADCAST, its a little harder but still doable.
>>>
>>>> To try and answer the other queries: the software is winamp
>>>
>>> What is the source into winamp tho ?
>>> Is its physical CD players etc or what ?
>>>
>>>> - the volume controls are on it and in windows and as far as I can
>>>> work out cannot be over-ridden.
>>>
>>> It isnt that hard to set limits on what the audio can be ramped up
>>> to.
>>>> I am about to try some dedicated scheduling
>>>> software but doubt it will address this issue.
>>>
>>> Cant see why not if the kids are only at the controls in well
>>> specified times. It'd be harder if the kids can come and go and
>>> you basically switch to the canned feed when no kid is available.
>>>
>>>> Basically I wanted to know if there exists a soundcard that has RCA
>>>> outs,
>>>
>>> You keep massively confusing the connector used with the
>>> functionality.
>>>> which implies to me at least, that it would make any audio output
>>>> perform like a hi fi component, requiring all amplification to be
>>>> done either through the mixing desk or at transmitter level and
>>>> thereby alleviating any of the problems simply and finally.
>>>
>>> You can do all that without needing to have
>>> anything special sound card wise in the PC.
>>>
>>> Just how you do it varys with the detail of the current
>>> setup which you keep failing to specify properly.
>>>
>>>> With all the Home TheatrePC stuff coming out and the high end audio
>>>> engineering stuff around these days I honestly thought I would get a
>>>> single reply telling me which card to buy.
>>>
>>> There is no 'card to buy' which has no volume control on the
>>> mixer in winamp which is used to play physical CDs or mpgs etc.
>>>
>>> It wouldnt be hard to prevent access to the mixer control in the
>>> PC, depending on the OS being used, and give the kids a separate
>>> amp with a volume control on that if they just want to increase the
>>> volume of what they hear themselves, as opposed to what is broadcast.
>>>
>>>> It has been fun though!
>>>
>>>> Hope this clarifies things at least a little
>>>
>>> Not even a little unfortunately.
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Oldus Fartus" <denisand@iiNOSPAMnet.net.au> wrote in message
>>>> news:43c74196$0$15040$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
>>>>> mindesign wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp output
>>>>>> from a PC? it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out (if
>>>>>> that's what it's called). What we need to do is have an output
>>>>>> from a computer, feed into a radio station transmitter (community
>>>>>> radio station) and be able to control it independently of the
>>>>>> PC's volume controls. As you can imagine, we have a lot of
>>>>>> younger people whop love their techno etc. and that's great - it
>>>>>> is just that they crank the thing up while their shows are one,
>>>>>> then forget to return the vol. controls to normal when they
>>>>>> leave, and our pre-recorded shows come back on ..... this
>>>>>> basically means folks tuning in get ultra loud, distorted crap
>>>>>> over their radios instead of medium volume, middle of the road
>>>>>> crap, which is what they expect to hear. I imagine all we need is
>>>>>> some kind of sound card with RCA outs,
>>>>>> but have never had to buy such an item before so have no idea
>>>>>> what we need - it doesn't need to be new or high spec. - just to
>>>>>> have RCA/Pre outs so we can control what goes through the
>>>>>> transmitter. Any suggestions much appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you are looking at this from the wrong direction Steve.
>>>>>
>>>>> Volumes should (must) remain the same over all your broadcasts, and
>>>>> your presenters have to learn that they may not play around with
>>>>> the settings. It is up to your listeners to increase the volume if
>>>>> they wish to do so, not the presenters.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a compromise, perhaps provide the presenters with amplified
>>>>> headphones or speakers where they can fiddle to their heart's
>>>>> content. --
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Oldus Fartus
>
>

[Ext User(Rod Speed)]

mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote

> in the OP I stated that the young people messing around with the
> volume affects those "tuning in" - so who do you think that is?

I meant WHY the kids rack up the volume. Presumably
they do it so they get it louder for themselves and they
dont intend to make it louder for the listener's volume.

> It wouldn't matter to anyone if no LISTENER was affected by this issue.

Duh.

Once more....

If the kids are racking up the volume so they get to hear it louder
while they are driving the console, it would be trivial to give them
a separate amp with a volume control on that that they can fiddle
with to their hearts content and then the broadcast volume wouldnt
be affected. You dont need anything sound card wise to do that.



> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:42qtdkF1jjhs4U1@individual.net...
>> mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote
>>
>>> my understanding of RCA out
>>
>> Again, you keep comprehensively mangling
>> the CONNECTOR used and the funtionality.
>>
>>> is that is an UNamplified source other than a base signal
>>
>> There is no 'base signal' with a PC sound card,
>> in spades with the digital audio from a CD drive
>> or mp3 that you're playing using winamp.
>>
>>> - this is not from PC experience but from HiFi experience -
>>> basically my understanding is that if it is RCA out, then all
>>> amplification is done externally, via another piece of equipment.
>>
>> Thats just plain wrong even with HiFi equipment.
>>
>> Most obviously with a turntable where there is always a
>> preamp before that line out which you keep calling RCA out.
>>
>> The ONLY difference with that output is that it isnt affected
>> by the VOLUME CONTROL. The amplification is FIXED.
>>
>>> Therefore a CD player - Tape Deck etc that has only RCA's
>>> out or even a receiver that does, either has no power amplification
>>
>> Corse it has. A tape deck cant deliver the signal
>> from the heads directly to an amp unamplified.
>>
>> A CD player in spades, its DIGITAL coming from the head
>> and you require a D/A converter and amplifier in the CD player.
>>
>> The ONLY difference is that there is no VOLUME CONTROL.
>>
>> That comes later in the amp.
>>
>>> or has bypassed it at these points - I would've thought a soundcard
>>> would be available that acts in the same manner
>>
>> It doesnt have a connection for a turntable pickup,
>> its essentially replacing the HiFi amp with its volume
>> control, this time done in the mixer in software.
>>
>>> and the control in Windows or on a winamp are really not volume as
>>> such, but an attenuator only.
>>
>> Thats just plain wrong with the mic input to a sound card.
>>
>>> It has been years since I have had to think about this and I am
>>> obviously wrong, but I am struggling to get my head around it.
>>
>> Yeah, thats obvious.
>>
>>> Anyway, I feel sure everyone is sick of trying to explain it - with
>>> GOOD reason! We have a meeting tomorrow to address a bunch of
>>> things and I will again reiterate that no one is to mess with the
>>> buttons...... the fun continues!
>>
>> Why didnt you answer the question about whether the kids are
>> ramping up the volume so what THEY can hear is louder, or
>> whether they are trying to increase the level that is BROADCAST ?
>>
>> The solution is obvious if they just want to hear it louder
>> themselves, just give them a separate amp for what they listen to
>> themselves, and dont allow them to fiddle with the level that is broadcast.
>> They can then fiddle with the volume control on that amp and
>> you couldnt care less about the level they choose to use until
>> they go completely deaf and you cant tell them when they will
>> be running the show next.
>>
>>
>>> "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:42qnbbF1ko4aqU1@individual.net...
>>>> mindesign <seriph_I_SAID_NO_BLOODY_SPAM@consultant.com> wrote
>>>>
>>>>> conversation from many years ago
>>>>
>>>>> "Ok dad I get it - DON'T take these keys - the ones on the night
>>>>> stand to your new cart - DEFinitely DO NOT take them from that
>>>>> nightstand there and DEFinitely DO NOT put them in the car
>>>>> downstairs and reverse it through the garage door and down the
>>>>> street to see my mates.....yup....I get it"
>>>>
>>>> You should have reminded him who would be picking the nursing home.
>>>>
>>>>> In other words - I appreciate that no one should mess around with
>>>>> the controls.......but this is a struggling community station that
>>>>> needs all the presenters it can muster - such rules, while in
>>>>> place never prevent people tweaking things here and there. The
>>>>> consequences to date have been nil, because those in power are
>>>>> terrified more of losing young presenters than causing deafness.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, perfectly sensible approach.
>>>>
>>>>> I agree with all you said though and have been trying to find
>>>>> simple solutions.
>>>>
>>>> You still havent spelt out the detail well enough to be able to say
>>>> much. If the kids just rack the volume up so THEY can hear it
>>>> louder and dont care about level thats being broadcast,
>>>> the obvious approach is to have a separate amp with
>>>> its own volume control for what THEY listen to. Then
>>>> it doesnt matter a damn what level they set on that.
>>>>
>>>> If on the other hand they ramp up the volume of what
>>>> is BROADCAST, its a little harder but still doable.
>>>>
>>>>> To try and answer the other queries: the software is winamp
>>>>
>>>> What is the source into winamp tho ?
>>>> Is its physical CD players etc or what ?
>>>>
>>>>> - the volume controls are on it and in windows and as far as I can
>>>>> work out cannot be over-ridden.
>>>>
>>>> It isnt that hard to set limits on what the audio can be ramped up
>>>> to.
>>>>> I am about to try some dedicated scheduling
>>>>> software but doubt it will address this issue.
>>>>
>>>> Cant see why not if the kids are only at the controls in well
>>>> specified times. It'd be harder if the kids can come and go and
>>>> you basically switch to the canned feed when no kid is available.
>>>>
>>>>> Basically I wanted to know if there exists a soundcard that has
>>>>> RCA outs,
>>>>
>>>> You keep massively confusing the connector used with the
>>>> functionality.
>>>>> which implies to me at least, that it would make any audio output
>>>>> perform like a hi fi component, requiring all amplification to be
>>>>> done either through the mixing desk or at transmitter level and
>>>>> thereby alleviating any of the problems simply and finally.
>>>>
>>>> You can do all that without needing to have
>>>> anything special sound card wise in the PC.
>>>>
>>>> Just how you do it varys with the detail of the current
>>>> setup which you keep failing to specify properly.
>>>>
>>>>> With all the Home TheatrePC stuff coming out and the high end
>>>>> audio engineering stuff around these days I honestly thought I
>>>>> would get a single reply telling me which card to buy.
>>>>
>>>> There is no 'card to buy' which has no volume control on the
>>>> mixer in winamp which is used to play physical CDs or mpgs etc.
>>>>
>>>> It wouldnt be hard to prevent access to the mixer control in the
>>>> PC, depending on the OS being used, and give the kids a separate
>>>> amp with a volume control on that if they just want to increase the
>>>> volume of what they hear themselves, as opposed to what is
>>>> broadcast.
>>>>> It has been fun though!
>>>>
>>>>> Hope this clarifies things at least a little
>>>>
>>>> Not even a little unfortunately.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Oldus Fartus" <denisand@iiNOSPAMnet.net.au> wrote in message
>>>>> news:43c74196$0$15040$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
>>>>>> mindesign wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ultra lame question I know, but how can I achieve a pre-amp
>>>>>>> output from a PC? it has sound on board but only a 3.5 line out
>>>>>>> (if that's what it's called). What we need to do is have an
>>>>>>> output from a computer, feed into a radio station transmitter
>>>>>>> (community radio station) and be able to control it
>>>>>>> independently of the PC's volume controls. As you can imagine,
>>>>>>> we have a lot of younger people whop love their techno etc. and
>>>>>>> that's great - it is just that they crank the thing up while
>>>>>>> their shows are one, then forget to return the vol. controls to
>>>>>>> normal when they leave, and our pre-recorded shows come back on
>>>>>>> ..... this basically means folks tuning in get ultra loud,
>>>>>>> distorted crap over their radios instead of medium volume,
>>>>>>> middle of the road crap, which is what they expect to hear. I
>>>>>>> imagine all we need is some kind of sound card with RCA outs,
>>>>>>> but have never had to buy such an item before so have no idea
>>>>>>> what we need - it doesn't need to be new or high spec. - just to
>>>>>>> have RCA/Pre outs so we can control what goes through the
>>>>>>> transmitter. Any suggestions much appreciated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The PC is an old HP P3 800 which was donated to us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think you are looking at this from the wrong direction Steve.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Volumes should (must) remain the same over all your broadcasts,
>>>>>> and your presenters have to learn that they may not play around
>>>>>> with the settings. It is up to your listeners to increase the
>>>>>> volume if they wish to do so, not the presenters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a compromise, perhaps provide the presenters with amplified
>>>>>> headphones or speakers where they can fiddle to their heart's
>>>>>> content. --
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Oldus Fartus