Re: Vaccine autism evidence overwhelming

[Ext User(john)]

"Dr. Kramer" <franzkramer@blse.edu> wrote in message
> While on his death bed, Pasteur also recommended tinfoil hats and eating
> our
> own feces every day to protect us from disease. They were his last words.
> It's
> the truth.
>

Actually he said the terrain was everything, the germ nothing, which shafts
allopathy and vaccination 100%

[Ext User('Arf)]

john wrote:
> "Dr. Kramer" <franzkramer@blse.edu> wrote in message

> > While on his death bed, Pasteur also recommended tinfoil hats and eating
> > our
> > own feces every day to protect us from disease. They were his last words.
> > It's
> > the truth.

> Actually he said the terrain was everything, the germ nothing, which shafts
> allopathy and vaccination 100%

Well, we know *your* stated belief is that Smallpox, Measles, etc...
can all be cured/prevented using Vitamin C.

This makes your opinions about Louis Pasteur irrelevant.

If you want to "shaft allopathy and vaccination", do the research and
publish it - so far your ilk have only ever published faked research,
if any, which doesn't exactly enhance the credibility of the crackpot
looney-tune nonsense you spout.

[Ext User(Toby Ponsenby)]

On 12 Jul 2006 10:19:42 -0700, 'Arf wrote:

> john wrote:
>> "Dr. Kramer" <franzkramer@blse.edu> wrote in message
>
>>> While on his death bed, Pasteur also recommended tinfoil hats and eating
>>> our
>>> own feces every day to protect us from disease. They were his last words.
>>> It's
>>> the truth.
>
>> Actually he said the terrain was everything, the germ nothing, which shafts
>> allopathy and vaccination 100%
>
> Well, we know *your* stated belief is that Smallpox, Measles, etc...
> can all be cured/prevented using Vitamin C.
>
> This makes your opinions about Louis Pasteur irrelevant.
>
> If you want to "shaft allopathy and vaccination", do the research and
> publish it - so far your ilk have only ever published faked research,
> if any, which doesn't exactly enhance the credibility of the crackpot
> looney-tune nonsense you spout.

Well done!!

Your cheque is in the mail.
--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

[Ext User(Blinky Bill)]

"john" <sc@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:-9mdnVo_V4O9jSjZRVny1A@bt.com...
>
> "Dr. Kramer" <franzkramer@blse.edu> wrote in message
>> While on his death bed, Pasteur also recommended tinfoil hats and
>> eating our
>> own feces every day to protect us from disease. They were his last
>> words. It's
>> the truth.
>>
>
> Actually he said the terrain was everything, the germ nothing, which
> shafts allopathy and vaccination 100%

So you present a choice between two theories of disease. One theory is
based on the work that Pasteur did for 40 years involving germ theory,
work which has been verified by countless observers and can make useful
predictions. The other theory is based on a statement that Pasteur made
on his death bed , a claim which makes no useful predictions and which
has not been verified by anyone. It is no surprise that you ,as a
conspiracy theorist, have made the choice you have.

[Ext User(Blinky Bill)]

"john" <sc@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:-9mdnVo_V4O9jSjZRVny1A@bt.com...
>
> "Dr. Kramer" <franzkramer@blse.edu> wrote in message
>> While on his death bed, Pasteur also recommended tinfoil hats and
>> eating our
>> own feces every day to protect us from disease. They were his last
>> words. It's
>> the truth.
>>
>
> Actually he said the terrain was everything, the germ nothing, which
> shafts allopathy and vaccination 100%

Apparently such utterances escaped his biographer, who makes no mention
of Pasteur saying words which in any way resemble what you claim.
Perhaps you could provide a source for your claim. In the meantime, I'm
afraid that your claim is "unsupported", and I admonish myself for
lending it any credence. This site which examines claims from ratbags
such as yourself provides some facts about his death, and "shafts" your
idiotic claim.

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/pasteur.htm
"It might surprise you to find that there are people who deny that
infectious diseases are caused by infectious agents like bacteria and
viruses. By doing this, they are able to support other mad ideas such as
the "myth" of AIDS, and also to generally attack most of conventional
medicine. (I am always amused when these people forget and offer Ingaz
Semmelweiss as an example of a person persecuted by conventional
medicine. If there are no germs, why would hand washing matter?). As
Pasteur was such a seminal and important figure in the history of
microbiology and medicine he and his works had to be discredited, so a
story was fabricated that he had renounced all his works on his death
bed. There are various versions of the story, but they usually look
something like this example:
Pasteur had the gold. He forced other competing theories to his germ
theory to be ignored. I do believe that his biographer was correct when
he reported that Pasteur said: "Bernard is correct. The bacteria are
nothing. The soil is everything." Pasteur was revealing to the world
that his germ theory of disease was concocted and false. Sad, isn't it,
that modern docs still believe his lie.

Well, I obtained a copy of Pasteur's biography, and to nobody's
surprise, he said no such thing. Of course, if Pasteur had really been
demented and announced on his death bed that germs were little coloured
flashing lights attached to tangles of green wires and you could see
them on Christmas trees this would not have altered the facts. For some
reason, however, the story of how he had renounced the germ theory of
disease gives comfort to those with minds so decayed that they believe
that all medical knowledge was complete at the end of the American Civil
War."

[Ext User(Steve B.)]

Is there no way to keep this, er...discussion, out of aus.invest?

Steve = : ^ \

Blinky Bill said:

>
> "john" <sc@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:-9mdnVo_V4O9jSjZRVny1A@bt.com...
>>
>> "Dr. Kramer" <franzkramer@blse.edu> wrote in message
>>> While on his death bed, Pasteur also recommended tinfoil hats and
>>> eating our
>>> own feces every day to protect us from disease. They were his last
>>> words. It's
>>> the truth.
>>>
>>
>> Actually he said the terrain was everything, the germ nothing, which
>> shafts allopathy and vaccination 100%
>
> Apparently such utterances escaped his biographer, who makes no mention
> of Pasteur saying words which in any way resemble what you claim.
> Perhaps you could provide a source for your claim. In the meantime, I'm
> afraid that your claim is "unsupported", and I admonish myself for
> lending it any credence. This site which examines claims from ratbags
> such as yourself provides some facts about his death, and "shafts" your
> idiotic claim.
>
> http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/pasteur.htm
> "It might surprise you to find that there are people who deny that
> infectious diseases are caused by infectious agents like bacteria and
> viruses. By doing this, they are able to support other mad ideas such as
> the "myth" of AIDS, and also to generally attack most of conventional
> medicine. (I am always amused when these people forget and offer Ingaz
> Semmelweiss as an example of a person persecuted by conventional
> medicine. If there are no germs, why would hand washing matter?). As
> Pasteur was such a seminal and important figure in the history of
> microbiology and medicine he and his works had to be discredited, so a
> story was fabricated that he had renounced all his works on his death
> bed. There are various versions of the story, but they usually look
> something like this example:
> Pasteur had the gold. He forced other competing theories to his germ
> theory to be ignored. I do believe that his biographer was correct when
> he reported that Pasteur said: "Bernard is correct. The bacteria are
> nothing. The soil is everything." Pasteur was revealing to the world
> that his germ theory of disease was concocted and false. Sad, isn't it,
> that modern docs still believe his lie.
>
> Well, I obtained a copy of Pasteur's biography, and to nobody's
> surprise, he said no such thing. Of course, if Pasteur had really been
> demented and announced on his death bed that germs were little coloured
> flashing lights attached to tangles of green wires and you could see
> them on Christmas trees this would not have altered the facts. For some
> reason, however, the story of how he had renounced the germ theory of
> disease gives comfort to those with minds so decayed that they believe
> that all medical knowledge was complete at the end of the American Civil
> War."
>
>
>
>
>

[Ext User(TyBreaker)]

Steve B. wrote:
> Is there no way to keep this, er...discussion, out of aus.invest?
>
> Steve = : ^ \
>
> Blinky Bill said:
>
>> "john" <sc@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:-9mdnVo_V4O9jSjZRVny1A@bt.com...
>>> "Dr. Kramer" <franzkramer@blse.edu> wrote in message
>>>> While on his death bed, Pasteur also recommended tinfoil hats and
>>>> eating our
>>>> own feces every day to protect us from disease. They were his last
>>>> words. It's
>>>> the truth.
>>>>
>>> Actually he said the terrain was everything, the germ nothing, which
>>> shafts allopathy and vaccination 100%
>> Apparently such utterances escaped his biographer, who makes no mention
>> of Pasteur saying words which in any way resemble what you claim.
>> Perhaps you could provide a source for your claim. In the meantime, I'm
>> afraid that your claim is "unsupported", and I admonish myself for
>> lending it any credence. This site which examines claims from ratbags
>> such as yourself provides some facts about his death, and "shafts" your
>> idiotic claim.
>>
>> http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/pasteur.htm
>> "It might surprise you to find that there are people who deny that
>> infectious diseases are caused by infectious agents like bacteria and
>> viruses. By doing this, they are able to support other mad ideas such as
>> the "myth" of AIDS, and also to generally attack most of conventional
>> medicine. (I am always amused when these people forget and offer Ingaz
>> Semmelweiss as an example of a person persecuted by conventional
>> medicine. If there are no germs, why would hand washing matter?). As
>> Pasteur was such a seminal and important figure in the history of
>> microbiology and medicine he and his works had to be discredited, so a
>> story was fabricated that he had renounced all his works on his death
>> bed. There are various versions of the story, but they usually look
>> something like this example:
>> Pasteur had the gold. He forced other competing theories to his germ
>> theory to be ignored. I do believe that his biographer was correct when
>> he reported that Pasteur said: "Bernard is correct. The bacteria are
>> nothing. The soil is everything." Pasteur was revealing to the world
>> that his germ theory of disease was concocted and false. Sad, isn't it,
>> that modern docs still believe his lie.
>>
>> Well, I obtained a copy of Pasteur's biography, and to nobody's
>> surprise, he said no such thing. Of course, if Pasteur had really been
>> demented and announced on his death bed that germs were little coloured
>> flashing lights attached to tangles of green wires and you could see
>> them on Christmas trees this would not have altered the facts. For some
>> reason, however, the story of how he had renounced the germ theory of
>> disease gives comfort to those with minds so decayed that they believe
>> that all medical knowledge was complete at the end of the American Civil
>> War."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

And who was the intellectual among you who thought us computer nerds
give a damn about your ravings?

--
______ ___ __
/_ __/_ __/ _ )_______ ___ _/ /_____ ____
/ / / // / _ / __/ -_) _ `/ '_/ -_) __/
/_/ \_, /____/_/ \__/\_,_/_/\_\\__/_/
/___/

There are 10 types of people in this world; those who understand the
binary numbering system and those who don't.

There's no place like 127.0.0.1.

ASCII a silly question, get a silly ANSI.

[Ext User(TyBreaker)]

Steve B. wrote:
> Is there no way to keep this, er...discussion, out of aus.invest?
>
> Steve = : ^ \
>
> Blinky Bill said:
>
>> "john" <sc@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:-9mdnVo_V4O9jSjZRVny1A@bt.com...
>>> "Dr. Kramer" <franzkramer@blse.edu> wrote in message
>>>> While on his death bed, Pasteur also recommended tinfoil hats and
>>>> eating our
>>>> own feces every day to protect us from disease. They were his last
>>>> words. It's
>>>> the truth.
>>>>
>>> Actually he said the terrain was everything, the germ nothing, which
>>> shafts allopathy and vaccination 100%
>> Apparently such utterances escaped his biographer, who makes no mention
>> of Pasteur saying words which in any way resemble what you claim.
>> Perhaps you could provide a source for your claim. In the meantime, I'm
>> afraid that your claim is "unsupported", and I admonish myself for
>> lending it any credence. This site which examines claims from ratbags
>> such as yourself provides some facts about his death, and "shafts" your
>> idiotic claim.
>>
>> http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/pasteur.htm
>> "It might surprise you to find that there are people who deny that
>> infectious diseases are caused by infectious agents like bacteria and
>> viruses. By doing this, they are able to support other mad ideas such as
>> the "myth" of AIDS, and also to generally attack most of conventional
>> medicine. (I am always amused when these people forget and offer Ingaz
>> Semmelweiss as an example of a person persecuted by conventional
>> medicine. If there are no germs, why would hand washing matter?). As
>> Pasteur was such a seminal and important figure in the history of
>> microbiology and medicine he and his works had to be discredited, so a
>> story was fabricated that he had renounced all his works on his death
>> bed. There are various versions of the story, but they usually look
>> something like this example:
>> Pasteur had the gold. He forced other competing theories to his germ
>> theory to be ignored. I do believe that his biographer was correct when
>> he reported that Pasteur said: "Bernard is correct. The bacteria are
>> nothing. The soil is everything." Pasteur was revealing to the world
>> that his germ theory of disease was concocted and false. Sad, isn't it,
>> that modern docs still believe his lie.
>>
>> Well, I obtained a copy of Pasteur's biography, and to nobody's
>> surprise, he said no such thing. Of course, if Pasteur had really been
>> demented and announced on his death bed that germs were little coloured
>> flashing lights attached to tangles of green wires and you could see
>> them on Christmas trees this would not have altered the facts. For some
>> reason, however, the story of how he had renounced the germ theory of
>> disease gives comfort to those with minds so decayed that they believe
>> that all medical knowledge was complete at the end of the American Civil
>> War."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

And who was the intellectual among you who thought us computer nerds
give a damn about your ravings?

--
______ ___ __
/_ __/_ __/ _ )_______ ___ _/ /_____ ____
/ / / // / _ / __/ -_) _ `/ '_/ -_) __/
/_/ \_, /____/_/ \__/\_,_/_/\_\\__/_/
/___/

There are 10 types of people in this world; those who understand the
binary numbering system and those who don't.

There's no place like 127.0.0.1.

ASCII a silly question, get a silly ANSI.

[Ext User(B J Foster)]

Blinky Bill wrote:

> "john" <sc@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:-9mdnVo_V4O9jSjZRVny1A@bt.com...
>
>>"Dr. Kramer" <franzkramer@blse.edu> wrote in message
>>
>>>While on his death bed, Pasteur also recommended tinfoil hats and
>>>eating our
>>>own feces every day to protect us from disease. They were his last
>>>words. It's
>>>the truth.
>>>
>>
>>Actually he said the terrain was everything, the germ nothing, which
>>shafts allopathy and vaccination 100%
>
>
> Apparently such utterances escaped his biographer, who makes no mention
> of Pasteur saying words which in any way resemble what you claim.
> Perhaps you could provide a source for your claim. In the meantime, I'm
> afraid that your claim is "unsupported", and I admonish myself for
> lending it any credence. This site which examines claims from ratbags
> such as yourself provides some facts about his death, and "shafts" your
> idiotic claim.
>
> http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/pasteur.htm
> "It might surprise you to find that there are people who deny that
> infectious diseases are caused by infectious agents like bacteria and
> viruses. By doing this, they are able to support other mad ideas such as
> the "myth" of AIDS, and also to generally attack most of conventional
> medicine. (I am always amused when these people forget and offer Ingaz
> Semmelweiss as an example of a person persecuted by conventional
> medicine. If there are no germs, why would hand washing matter?). As
> Pasteur was such a seminal and important figure in the history of
> microbiology and medicine he and his works had to be discredited, so a
> story was fabricated that he had renounced all his works on his death
> bed. There are various versions of the story, but they usually look
> something like this example:
> Pasteur had the gold. He forced other competing theories to his germ
> theory to be ignored. I do believe that his biographer was correct when
> he reported that Pasteur said: "Bernard is correct. The bacteria are
> nothing. The soil is everything." Pasteur was revealing to the world
> that his germ theory of disease was concocted and false. Sad, isn't it,
> that modern docs still believe his lie.
>
> Well, I obtained a copy of Pasteur's biography, and to nobody's
> surprise, he said no such thing. Of course, if Pasteur had really been
> demented and announced on his death bed that germs were little coloured
> flashing lights attached to tangles of green wires and you could see
> them on Christmas trees this would not have altered the facts. For some
> reason, however, the story of how he had renounced the germ theory of
> disease gives comfort to those with minds so decayed that they believe
> that all medical knowledge was complete at the end of the American Civil
> War."
>
>
>
>
>

[Ext User(Sky Rider)]

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:55:37 GMT, Toby Ponsenby <toby@privacy.net>
looked at Ron with an evil Grint in his eye and said :
>On 12 Jul 2006 10:19:42 -0700, 'Arf wrote:
>> john wrote:
>>> "Dr. Kramer" <franzkramer@blse.edu> wrote in message

>> If you want to "shaft allopathy and vaccination", do the research and
>> publish it - so far your ilk have only ever published faked research,
>> if any, which doesn't exactly enhance the credibility of the crackpot
>> looney-tune nonsense you spout.

>Well done!!

>Your cheque is in the mail.

People who criticise vaccination, immunization and the like have never
watched a child die of measles, whooping cough, diphtheria etc and
have never seen the look on a new mothers face when she learns the
effects Rubella has had on her foetus...

.... all of which are preventable.
--

Where real Aussies go to tell it like it is!
http://www.australianopinion.com

[Ext User(GJ & BJ)]

And I assume you have never met a family who can directly relate to a
vaccination as to the time their child changed. Once damaged they are
forever like that.The effects are well described. Autism rates have gone
through the roof since Hepatitis B vaccinations commenced for neonates. Why
would you immunise a baby within hours of its birth when the parents are not
drug users, not hep B carriers and not living in 3rd world country. ask
yourself questions. refer to the Australian Vaccination Network and become
informed. Don't come back with a holy holy view just become informed!
www.avn.org.au
Did you know vaccination does not protect you from those diseases. Measles
now have to be repeated when they go to school and there is talk of also
doing it before high school. Most vaccines only cover 60 - 70% of all the
various strains. False security- you bet your life!
France has stopped immunising teenagers for Hep B at all now because it is
so seriously linked to chronic fatigue. Look at the product information slip
next time you think you might like to check it out.
Am a nutter you might be thinking- no a health professional who asks that
all parents become fully informed before they consent to any immunisations.
A good naturopath can give some herbal protective drops at times of exposure
and a fully breastfed child is protected to some degree. Whooping cough
again only a few strains are covered by vaccination..
Barb


"Sky Rider" <home@therange.com> wrote in message
news:d2fmb21ipg7jtoo3s25ql28bso7hs19ur8@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:55:37 GMT, Toby Ponsenby <toby@privacy.net>
> looked at Ron with an evil Grint in his eye and said :
> >On 12 Jul 2006 10:19:42 -0700, 'Arf wrote:
> >> john wrote:
> >>> "Dr. Kramer" <franzkramer@blse.edu> wrote in message
>
> >> If you want to "shaft allopathy and vaccination", do the research and
> >> publish it - so far your ilk have only ever published faked research,
> >> if any, which doesn't exactly enhance the credibility of the crackpot
> >> looney-tune nonsense you spout.
>
> >Well done!!
>
> >Your cheque is in the mail.
>
> People who criticise vaccination, immunization and the like have never
> watched a child die of measles, whooping cough, diphtheria etc and
> have never seen the look on a new mothers face when she learns the
> effects Rubella has had on her foetus...
>
> ... all of which are preventable.
> --
>
> Where real Aussies go to tell it like it is!
> http://www.australianopinion.com

[Ext User(Toby Ponsenby)]

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:31:40 +1000, Sky Rider wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:55:37 GMT, Toby Ponsenby <toby@privacy.net>
> looked at Ron with an evil Grint in his eye and said :
>>On 12 Jul 2006 10:19:42 -0700, 'Arf wrote:
>>> john wrote:
>>>> "Dr. Kramer" <franzkramer@blse.edu> wrote in message
>
>>> If you want to "shaft allopathy and vaccination", do the research and
>>> publish it - so far your ilk have only ever published faked research,
>>> if any, which doesn't exactly enhance the credibility of the crackpot
>>> looney-tune nonsense you spout.
>
>>Well done!!
>
>>Your cheque is in the mail.
>
> People who criticise vaccination, immunization and the like have never
> watched a child die of measles, whooping cough, diphtheria etc and
> have never seen the look on a new mothers face when she learns the
> effects Rubella has had on her foetus...
>
> ... all of which are preventable.

??
Yup, they are - it's the means to that end that's the problem,
specifically because drug companies put profit before people.
Only natural, of course, that's their 'business'.

HTH.



--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

[Ext User(Sky Rider)]

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:50:23 GMT, Toby Ponsenby <toby@privacy.net>
looked at Ron with an evil Grint in his eye and said :
>On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:31:40 +1000, Sky Rider wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:55:37 GMT, Toby Ponsenby <toby@privacy.net>
>> looked at Ron with an evil Grint in his eye and said :
>>>On 12 Jul 2006 10:19:42 -0700, 'Arf wrote:
>>>> john wrote:
>>>>> "Dr. Kramer" <franzkramer@blse.edu> wrote in message

>>>> If you want to "shaft allopathy and vaccination", do the research and
>>>> publish it - so far your ilk have only ever published faked research,
>>>> if any, which doesn't exactly enhance the credibility of the crackpot
>>>> looney-tune nonsense you spout.

>>>Well done!!

>>>Your cheque is in the mail.

>> People who criticise vaccination, immunization and the like have never
>> watched a child die of measles, whooping cough, diphtheria etc and
>> have never seen the look on a new mothers face when she learns the
>> effects Rubella has had on her foetus...

>> ... all of which are preventable.

>??
>Yup, they are - it's the means to that end that's the problem,
>specifically because drug companies put profit before people.
>Only natural, of course, that's their 'business'.

So your answer is to condemn millions of kids to disease, deformity
and/or death instead?

I'm old enough to remember the time before these things were freely
available... it wasn't nice. It's easy from the standpoint of a
disease free society to pontificate about how bad the drug companies
are... it's quite another to watch your child die for the want of a
vaccine.

Drug companies *are* there to make money its true. However, whilst
every child is valuable beyond price... you have to weight the
priceless nature of a handful of children against the millions upon
millions who are now protected because they've been
vaccinated/immunized.

All of my kids and grandkids have been treated and I thank god for it.
For those selfish minority who are allowing the dreaded diseases of my
childhood to reappear and flourish... be ashamed as you watch *your*
child suffer.

By the way... have you ever sat with someone who has suffered with
polio myelitis and told them how lucky they were not to have had the
injection that would have saved them the paralysis?? Maybe you'd like
to do the same with a child blinded by measles??

Things can always be better... no argument... but to deny health to
the many for the sake of the few is just plain idiotic.
--

Where real Aussies go to tell it like it is!
http://www.australianopinion.com

[Ext User(Blinky Bill)]

"GJ & BJ" <cookie5@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:44bb46cd$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
> And I assume you have never met a family who can directly relate to a
> vaccination as to the time their child changed.

That would be an anecdote, not data.

> Once damaged they are
> forever like that.The effects are well described. Autism rates have
> gone
> through the roof since Hepatitis B vaccinations commenced for
> neonates.

The rise in autism was originally attributed to MMR vaccine. This was on
the basis of a study of a small number of subjects at a hospital in
England. Many studies have refuted this claim, the final nail in the
coffin being a study in Japan where autism continued to rise after the
MMR vaccinations were discontinued.
There is no scientific study that links autism to HepB vaccinations.
Studies to date have shown no link. To falsely link the two does a
disservice to the community on two levels. It hampers the search for the
real culprit, and increases the risk to children who don't receive a
safe vaccine.

> Why
> would you immunise a baby within hours of its birth when the parents
> are not
> drug users, not hep B carriers and not living in 3rd world country.

I couldn't find relevant figures for Australia, but up to 30% of victims
in the US acquired the disease in childhood.

> ask yourself questions. refer to the Australian Vaccination Network
> and become
> informed. Don't come back with a holy holy view just become informed!
> www.avn.org.au
> Did you know vaccination does not protect you from those diseases.

Any competent health professional admits that no guarantee of immunity
is made for vaccination, just as they will admit that there may be side
effects, and in a miniscule proportion of cases the side effects may be
serious. However the benefits far outweigh the risks.

> Measles
> now have to be repeated when they go to school and there is talk of
> also
> doing it before high school.

And there were 3 rounds of oral polio vaccinations to achieve the
desired efficacy - so what?

> Most vaccines only cover 60 - 70% of all the
> various strains.

Proof ? and so what??

> False security- you bet your life!

No one has claimed 100% security, although HepB efficacy is about 95%.
However there is 0% security in not having the vaccines.

> France has stopped immunising teenagers for Hep B at all now because
> it is
> so seriously linked to chronic fatigue.

It was originally claimed in France that there was a link to multiple
sclerosis. Subsequent studies have not shown any such association.
<quote>
"This decision (to suspend vaccination) followed concerns, despite lack
of scientific evidence establishing a causal relationship, that
Hepatitis B immunization might be linked to the development or flare-up
of demyelinating diseases such as multiple sclerosis (MS), and comes in
the wake of enormous pressure from anti-vaccine groups.

WHO, with the assistance of external experts in neurology, epidemiology,
immunology and public health, has carefully reviewed the scientific
evidence on whether Hepatitis B vaccine can cause demyelinating diseases
such as MS. WHO believes that available scientific data does not
demonstrate a causal association between HB immunization and central
nervous system diseases, including MS.

Over 1 billion doses of Hepatitis B (HB) vaccine have been used since
1981 with an outstanding record of safety and efficacy, and the vaccine
is 95% effective in preventing the development of the chronic carrier
state of Hepatitis B. HB vaccine is the first vaccine against a major
human cancer, as it is the chronic carriers of Hepatitis B who are at a
high risk of death from cirrhosis of the liver and liver cancer."
<endquote>
http://www.immunize.org/genr.d/issue23.htm

Other studies also found no association between vaccination and MS.
http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/cc-hepb.htm

CFS seems to be the third disorder linked to HepB vaccination, although
I can't find any study that supports your claim. It seems some people
just put the "usual suspects" in their sights when something goes wrong.

> Look at the product information slip
> next time you think you might like to check it out.
> Am a nutter you might be thinking- no a health professional who asks
> that
> all parents become fully informed before they consent to any
> immunisations.

I agree that parents should be informed. We probably disagree on what
they should be informed about. You want to tell them of every
scare-mongering anecdote and unproven claim that anybody makes. I
advocate telling them of the risks and benefits using the best available
science based evidence.

> A good naturopath can give some herbal protective drops at times of
> exposure

Crossing your fingers would be just as useful.

[Ext User(Toby Ponsenby)]

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:58:22 +1000, Sky Rider wrote:

>>??
>>Yup, they are - it's the means to that end that's the problem,
>>specifically because drug companies put profit before people.
>>Only natural, of course, that's their 'business'.
>
> So your answer is to condemn millions of kids to disease, deformity
> and/or death instead?

I didn't give an answer that involved condemnation of anyone anytime
anywhere.
Just mentioned the profit motive, is all.
So sorry.


Do enjoy the better view from your soapbox.

--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

[Ext User(Theo Bekkers)]

Blinky Bill wrote:
> "GJ & BJ" <cookie5@iprimus.com.au> wrote

>> A good naturopath can give some herbal protective drops at times of
>> exposure

> Crossing your fingers would be just as useful.

I hear crossing your legs is quite effective against most STDs.

Theo

[Ext User(Theo Bekkers)]

Sky Rider wrote:

> All of my kids and grandkids have been treated and I thank god for it.

God immunised your children? Or God created the diseases your children are
now immunised against?

Theo

[Ext User(Sky Rider)]

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:59:05 +0800, "Theo Bekkers"
<tbekkers@bekkers.com.au> looked at Ron with an evil Grint in his eye
and said :
>Sky Rider wrote:

>> All of my kids and grandkids have been treated and I thank god for it.

>God immunised your children? Or God created the diseases your children are
>now immunised against?

Both... except the first :)
--

Where real Aussies go to tell it like it is!
http://www.australianopinion.com

[Ext User(Blinky Bill)]

"Theo Bekkers" <tbekkers@bekkers.com.au> wrote in message
news:44bc31cd$1@news.bekkers.com.au...
> Blinky Bill wrote:
>> "GJ & BJ" <cookie5@iprimus.com.au> wrote
>
>>> A good naturopath can give some herbal protective drops at times of
>>> exposure
>
>> Crossing your fingers would be just as useful.
>
> I hear crossing your legs is quite effective against most STDs.

Aspirin is equally effective. Place a single tablet between the knees
and retain it there by pressing them firmly together.

[Ext User(Blinky Bill)]

"GJ & BJ" <cookie5@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:44bb46cd$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au...

<snip>

> Why
> would you immunise a baby within hours of its birth when the parents
> are not
> drug users, not hep B carriers and not living in 3rd world country.

For someone who claims to be a "health professional", you seem
remarkably ignorant of the disease against which you are suggesting that
people should not protect themselves.

http://www.hepatitisaustralia.com/pages/Symptoms__Illness_of_Hepatitis_B.htm
"Between one and 12% of people infected as adults, and up to 90% of
those infected at birth, will not clear the virus from their body and
remain infectious. People with chronic hepatitis B (also known as
'carriers'), have a significantly increased risk of developing liver
cancer. Sometimes referred to as 'healthy carriers', these people
usually remain asymptomatic (having no symptoms) and may be unaware that
they are infected. This can be a risk as they may inadvertently
transmit the virus to others and be unaware of current treatments. "

That seems a really good reason to vaccinate them as early as possible
after birth.

<snip>

> Am a nutter you might be thinking- no a health professional who asks
> that
> all parents become fully informed before they consent to any
> immunisations.
> A good naturopath can give some herbal protective drops at times of
> exposure

There are many other infectious diseases which can transmitted by people
who are asymptomatic. The infected person may be asymptomatic because he
is a carrier, or because the disease is at a stage when symptoms have
not yet developed. How can you possibly determine that exposure has
occurred in such cases?