Interesting point

[Ext User(Biggus)]

saw this on the age site.


Adelaide captain Mark Ricciuto had another outstanding match last
Friday night, kicking five goals in the Crows' 72-point win over the
Kangaroos. Not a bad way to celebrate your 300th game!

He's won a Brownlow but where does he stand in the pecking order of
modern-day greats?
Nathan Buckley, James Hird and Michael Voss regularly get mentioned in
the same breath.

Does Ricciuto deserve the same attention?

---------------------------------------------

IMO, without doubt.

[Ext User(Dave)]

"Biggus" <fu_kew_REMOVEMYKNICKERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dad9c2d3vgig0nnho6f74kg8hnf0h3btuq@4ax.com...
> saw this on the age site.
>
>
> Adelaide captain Mark Ricciuto had another outstanding match last
> Friday night, kicking five goals in the Crows' 72-point win over the
> Kangaroos. Not a bad way to celebrate your 300th game!
>
> He's won a Brownlow but where does he stand in the pecking order of
> modern-day greats?
> Nathan Buckley, James Hird and Michael Voss regularly get mentioned in
> the same breath.
>
> Does Ricciuto deserve the same attention?
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> IMO, without doubt.
>
>
>

post from the same blog,
http://blogs.theage.com.au/realfooty/archives/2006/07/rating_the_roo.html

Michael Voss - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow.
James Hird - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow.
Nathan Buckley - 7 time All Australian. Brownlow.

Mark Ricciuto - 8 times all Australian. Brownlow.

Perhaps the question should not be "does he deserve the same attention" but
"is he the best of the lot".

[Ext User(Mark Shea)]

Dave wrote:

> Michael Voss - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow.
> James Hird - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow.
> Nathan Buckley - 7 time All Australian. Brownlow.
>
> Mark Ricciuto - 8 times all Australian. Brownlow.
>
> Perhaps the question should not be "does he deserve the same attention" but
> "is he the best of the lot".

IMO, no. He's as good as Buckley, but not as good as Hird, Voss or Carey.

Mark Shea

[Ext User(Biggus)]

interesting point.. I dont really see Hird as that great. like another
ppost from the same blog, you never see hird or buckley gettin down on
the ground into it....


>
>IMO, no. He's as good as Buckley, but not as good as Hird, Voss or Carey.
>
>Mark Shea

[Ext User(Dave)]

"Mark Shea" <zadeja@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:44c4bf77$0$23473$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Dave wrote:
>
>> Michael Voss - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow.
>> James Hird - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow.
>> Nathan Buckley - 7 time All Australian. Brownlow.
>>
>> Mark Ricciuto - 8 times all Australian. Brownlow.
>>
>> Perhaps the question should not be "does he deserve the same attention"
>> but "is he the best of the lot".
>
> IMO, no. He's as good as Buckley, but not as good as Hird, Voss or Carey.
>
> Mark Shea

I think that Carey was clearly the best in terms of an individual being able
to turn a game singlehanded.

But I'd take either Buckley & Ricciuto over Hird & Voss. Hird has struggled
with injury for around seven years now and Voss has has declined
substantianlly over the last 3-4 years.

[Ext User(gF)]

"Biggus" <fu_kew_REMOVEMYKNICKERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:dad9c2d3vgig0nnho6f74kg8hnf0h3btuq@4ax.com...
> saw this on the age site.
>
>
> Adelaide captain Mark Ricciuto had another outstanding match last
> Friday night, kicking five goals in the Crows' 72-point win over the
> Kangaroos. Not a bad way to celebrate your 300th game!
>
> He's won a Brownlow but where does he stand in the pecking order of
> modern-day greats?
> Nathan Buckley, James Hird and Michael Voss regularly get mentioned in
> the same breath.
>
> Does Ricciuto deserve the same attention?
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> IMO, without doubt.
>
>
>

all round I would pick him before any of the others
I don't think that Ricciuto does the breath-taking
things that Hird & Voss could do but he is all round
as good as them far better than Buckley
(whose kicking is far overrated by the media and
shown up in his low goal kicking accuracy rate)
and far more durable than all of them and even now
in the shadow of his career (all be it a long one it would seem)
he has shown his class up forward as well
in any case at the moment of all those players
I rate Scott West in front of em all and will cap
it off with the Brownlow this year

gF

[Ext User(Ian Galbraith)]

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:47:31 +1000, Biggus wrote:

> interesting point.. I dont really see Hird as that great. like another
> ppost from the same blog, you never see hird or buckley gettin down on
> the ground into it....

I've seen Hird extract the ball from a pack many a time, he does it so
effortlessly which is probably deceiving.

--
You can't stop the signal

[Ext User(Ian Galbraith)]

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:39:17 +0800, Mark Shea wrote:

> Dave wrote:

>> Michael Voss - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow.
>> James Hird - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow.
>> Nathan Buckley - 7 time All Australian. Brownlow.

>> Mark Ricciuto - 8 times all Australian. Brownlow.

>> Perhaps the question should not be "does he deserve the same attention" but
>> "is he the best of the lot".

> IMO, no. He's as good as Buckley, but not as good as Hird, Voss or Carey.

Agreed, although I'd rate him ahead of Buckley for his ability to get the
hard ball.


--
You can't stop the signal

[Ext User(Ian Galbraith)]

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:53:57 +1000, Dave wrote:

[snip]

> I think that Carey was clearly the best in terms of an individual being able
> to turn a game singlehanded.

> But I'd take either Buckley & Ricciuto over Hird & Voss. Hird has struggled
> with injury for around seven years now and Voss has has declined
> substantianlly over the last 3-4 years.

But if you could take any at their best who would you take? Buckley is
the only one out of the 5 who I don't think has singlehandedly turned a
result.

--
You can't stop the signal

[Ext User(woodsy)]

"Ian Galbraith" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:1hya2hb65wx7a.g53g94i0jq4w.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:39:17 +0800, Mark Shea wrote:
>
>> Dave wrote:
>
>>> Michael Voss - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow.
>>> James Hird - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow.
>>> Nathan Buckley - 7 time All Australian. Brownlow.
>
>>> Mark Ricciuto - 8 times all Australian. Brownlow.
>
hird...premiership captain
voss...premiership captain
ricciuto..maybe about to become premiership captain
buckley........................

[Ext User(Matt S)]

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 00:28:35 +1000, "gF" <no.no.no@aaah.com> wrote:

>
>"Biggus" <fu_kew_REMOVEMYKNICKERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:dad9c2d3vgig0nnho6f74kg8hnf0h3btuq@4ax.com...
>> saw this on the age site.
>>
>>
>> Adelaide captain Mark Ricciuto had another outstanding match last
>> Friday night, kicking five goals in the Crows' 72-point win over the
>> Kangaroos. Not a bad way to celebrate your 300th game!
>>
>> He's won a Brownlow but where does he stand in the pecking order of
>> modern-day greats?
>> Nathan Buckley, James Hird and Michael Voss regularly get mentioned in
>> the same breath.
>>
>> Does Ricciuto deserve the same attention?
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------
>>
>> IMO, without doubt.
>>
>>
>>
>
>all round I would pick him before any of the others
>I don't think that Ricciuto does the breath-taking
>things that Hird & Voss could do but he is all round
>as good as them far better than Buckley
>(whose kicking is far overrated by the media and
>shown up in his low goal kicking accuracy rate)
>and far more durable than all of them and even now
>in the shadow of his career (all be it a long one it would seem)
>he has shown his class up forward as well
>in any case at the moment of all those players
>I rate Scott West in front of em all and will cap
>it off with the Brownlow this year
>
>gF
>
I really hope you are right gF, but I think Judd's early form has put
him in the box seat.

hooroo...

[Ext User(Ian Galbraith)]

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:39:07 +1000, Ian Galbraith wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:39:17 +0800, Mark Shea wrote:
>
>> Dave wrote:
>
>>> Michael Voss - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow.
>>> James Hird - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow.
>>> Nathan Buckley - 7 time All Australian. Brownlow.
>
>>> Mark Ricciuto - 8 times all Australian. Brownlow.
>
>>> Perhaps the question should not be "does he deserve the same attention" but
>>> "is he the best of the lot".
>
>> IMO, no. He's as good as Buckley, but not as good as Hird, Voss or Carey.
>
> Agreed, although I'd rate him ahead of Buckley for his ability to get the
> hard ball.

Another point, I'd take Harvey ahead of Buckley as well.

--
You can't stop the signal

[Ext User(Epigram)]

On 07/24/2006 19:56:39 Biggus <fu_kew_REMOVEMYKNICKERS@hotmail.com> wrote:

> saw this on the age site.

> Adelaide captain Mark Ricciuto had another outstanding match last Friday
> night, kicking five goals in the Crows' 72-point win over the Kangaroos.
> Not a bad way to celebrate your 300th game!

> He's won a Brownlow but where does he stand in the pecking order of
> modern-day greats? Nathan Buckley, James Hird and Michael Voss regularly
> get mentioned in the same breath.

> Does Ricciuto deserve the same attention?

> ---------------------------------------------

> IMO, without doubt.

Earlier this year, I put Ricciuto in my top 5 current or recent players. Voss is in the same list, as is Hird, Buckley isn't (Laz, don't get in a lather, my opinion would be the same even if he played - Krishna help us - for Freo).

Rucciuto is probably the current #1, and possibly going for his second Brownlow gong.

Voss is not in the form he would like, and the form of his team is would be testing on his captaincy.

Hird is past it, unfortunately.

Bell should, IMO, be in the same breath as the above - for such a small player he _commands_ respect, which is why he's been President of the AFLPA for a few years - players of all clubs respect him, which says alot.

Perhaps the Brownlow is the ultimate, but I can see in the future that the AFLPA's B&F being the most coverted medal, it just needs an appropriately named title. The Akermanis medal just isn't on the horizon... It would be like calling it the Demetriou Medal (shuddder!!!!!!)

Toby.

--

"A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

[Ext User(Epigram)]

On 07/24/2006 20:47:31 Biggus <fu_kew_REMOVEMYKNICKERS@hotmail.com> wrote:

> interesting point.. I dont really see Hird as that great. like another
> ppost from the same blog, you never see hird or buckley gettin down on the
> ground into it....

Fair enough, but players have different roles. If every player was an in-and-under, then the ball would never come out of packs and the ump would have to ball-up every time a pack formed.

Hird is always a potential game changer - he needs to be tagged. Buckley doesn't.

>> IMO, no. He's as good as Buckley, but not as good as Hird, Voss or
>> Carey.

>> Mark Shea

--

Toby.

--

"A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

[Ext User(Epigram)]

On 07/24/2006 20:39:17 Mark Shea <zadeja@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Dave wrote:

>> Michael Voss - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow. James Hird - 5 time All
>> Australian. Brownlow. Nathan Buckley - 7 time All Australian. Brownlow.

>> Mark Ricciuto - 8 times all Australian. Brownlow.

>> Perhaps the question should not be "does he deserve the same attention"
>> but "is he the best of the lot".

> IMO, no. He's as good as Buckley, but not as good as Hird, Voss or Carey.

> Mark Shea

This year he's better than Hird or Voss and Carey!! IMO he has always been better than Buckley - perhaps not as articulate, or even as a consistantly silk-footed, but certainly more versitile and courageous and a fine example of what is required in a lead-by-example captain.

The above stats tell some of that story.

Having said that, Buckley will be able to go on to coach at AFL level, something I don't believe Roo could ever hope to do.

Toby.

--

"A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

[Ext User(Epigram)]

On 07/24/2006 20:53:57 "Dave" <maybenot> wrote:

> "Mark Shea" <zadeja@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:44c4bf77$0$23473$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

>> Dave wrote:

>>> Michael Voss - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow. James Hird - 5 time All
>>> Australian. Brownlow. Nathan Buckley - 7 time All Australian.
>>> Brownlow.

>>> Mark Ricciuto - 8 times all Australian. Brownlow.

>>> Perhaps the question should not be "does he deserve the same attention"
>>> but "is he the best of the lot".

>> IMO, no. He's as good as Buckley, but not as good as Hird, Voss or
>> Carey.

>> Mark Shea

> I think that Carey was clearly the best in terms of an individual being
> able to turn a game singlehanded.

> But I'd take either Buckley & Ricciuto over Hird & Voss. Hird has
> struggled with injury for around seven years now and Voss has has declined
> substantianlly over the last 3-4 years.

Are you serious about Buckley? To me, his Brownlow is like Greg Williams' - a kind of "wtf were the umps smoking before each game?" More than usual, that is.

Toby.

--

"A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

[Ext User(Epigram)]

On 07/25/2006 06:42:06 Ian Galbraith <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:53:57 +1000, Dave wrote:

> [snip]

>> I think that Carey was clearly the best in terms of an individual being
>> able to turn a game singlehanded.

>> But I'd take either Buckley & Ricciuto over Hird & Voss. Hird has
>> struggled with injury for around seven years now and Voss has has
>> declined substantianlly over the last 3-4 years.

> But if you could take any at their best who would you take? Buckley is
> the only one out of the 5 who I don't think has singlehandedly turned a
> result.

Maybe once or twice, but not a consistant game-turner, agreed.

Buckley would be in my top 20, more at the end than the top - Hird, Voss, and Rucciuto are in my top 5. Carey is a floater in and out of the top 5, but there's every chance that Jonnathon Brown or Alistair Lynch would edge him out as I grow older.

Toby.

--

"A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

[Ext User(Epigram)]

On 07/25/2006 08:16:31 "woodsy" <joe bloggs@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Ian Galbraith" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:1hya2hb65wx7a.g53g94i0jq4w.dlg@40tude.net...

>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:39:17 +0800, Mark Shea wrote:

>>> Dave wrote:

>>>> Michael Voss - 5 time All Australian. Brownlow. James Hird - 5 time
>>>> All Australian. Brownlow. Nathan Buckley - 7 time All Australian.
>>>> Brownlow.

>>>> Mark Ricciuto - 8 times all Australian. Brownlow.

> hird...premiership captain voss...premiership captain ricciuto..maybe
> about to become premiership captain buckley........................

He's got, as they say, Buckley's. Or more appropriately, in his dreams.

Toby.

--

"A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

[Ext User(Epigram)]

On 07/25/2006 09:18:48 Matt S <swooper@matt.s@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 00:28:35 +1000, "gF" <no.no.no@aaah.com> wrote:

>> "Biggus" <fu_kew_REMOVEMYKNICKERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:dad9c2d3vgig0nnho6f74kg8hnf0h3btuq@4ax.com...

>>> saw this on the age site.

>>> Adelaide captain Mark Ricciuto had another outstanding match last Friday
>>> night, kicking five goals in the Crows' 72-point win over the Kangaroos.
>>> Not a bad way to celebrate your 300th game!

>>> He's won a Brownlow but where does he stand in the pecking order of
>>> modern-day greats? Nathan Buckley, James Hird and Michael Voss regularly
>>> get mentioned in the same breath.

>>> Does Ricciuto deserve the same attention?

>>> ---------------------------------------------

>>> IMO, without doubt.

>> all round I would pick him before any of the others I don't think that
>> Ricciuto does the breath-taking things that Hird & Voss could do but he
>> is all round as good as them far better than Buckley (whose kicking is
>> far overrated by the media and shown up in his low goal kicking accuracy
>> rate) and far more durable than all of them and even now in the shadow of
>> his career (all be it a long one it would seem) he has shown his class up
>> forward as well in any case at the moment of all those players I rate
>> Scott West in front of em all and will cap it off with the Brownlow this
>> year

>> gF

> I really hope you are right gF, but I think Judd's early form has put him
> in the box seat.

> hooroo...

Two things have hampered Judd - Cousins and Gardiner. Injury is a distant 3rd.

It would be a massive changing of the way umpires see the game if West did win the gong, and if so I'd eat my words about umpires being spineless, gonadless, guttersnipes. Plus they'd get a bit more respect.

Toby (who thinks Judd is amazing and will get better and better - but having the captaincy thrust upon him in the way it was has affected his game, saddly).

--

"A man can be happy with any woman as long as he does not love her."

[Ext User(Matt S)]

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 04:32:54 GMT, Epigram <not@this.id> wrote:

>On 07/24/2006 19:56:39 Biggus <fu_kew_REMOVEMYKNICKERS@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> saw this on the age site.
>
>> Adelaide captain Mark Ricciuto had another outstanding match last Friday
>> night, kicking five goals in the Crows' 72-point win over the Kangaroos.
>> Not a bad way to celebrate your 300th game!
>
>> He's won a Brownlow but where does he stand in the pecking order of
>> modern-day greats? Nathan Buckley, James Hird and Michael Voss regularly
>> get mentioned in the same breath.
>
>> Does Ricciuto deserve the same attention?
>
>> ---------------------------------------------
>
>> IMO, without doubt.
>
>Earlier this year, I put Ricciuto in my top 5 current or recent players. Voss is in the same list, as is Hird, Buckley isn't (Laz, don't get in a lather, my opinion would be the same even if he played - Krishna help us - for Freo).
>
>Rucciuto is probably the current #1, and possibly going for his second Brownlow gong.
>
>Voss is not in the form he would like, and the form of his team is would be testing on his captaincy.
>
>Hird is past it, unfortunately.
>
>Bell should, IMO, be in the same breath as the above - for such a small player he _commands_ respect, which is why he's been President of the AFLPA for a few years - players of all clubs respect him, which says alot.
>
C'mon Toby, that is blatant bias...:>). Bell is good...very
good...but he is NOT on the same page as the aforememtioned "legends".
Brad Johnston would be ahead of P.Bell, and has been overlooked when
the top 5 are considered every year.

hooroo...
>Perhaps the Brownlow is the ultimate, but I can see in the future that the AFLPA's B&F being the most coverted medal, it just needs an appropriately named title. The Akermanis medal just isn't on the horizon... It would be like calling it the Demetriou Medal (shuddder!!!!!!)
>
>Toby.