View Full Version : Recalls dent Toyota image
Ext User(a9x5l)
01-08-2006, 08:23 PM
Toyota Motor Corp. CEO Katsuaki Watanabe bowed deeply before the cameras
on July 20 in a humbling moment for the mighty Japanese automaker.
Toyota has come under intense scrutiny as prosecutors in Japan investigate
its handling of vehicle defects. Separately, the government told Toyota to
review its policy on recalls and respond to the Transport Ministry by
Friday.
Ritual apologies are common in Japan, where executives are expected to
convey their regret for corporate shortcomings.
It's unusual, however, to see executives from Japan's leading industrial
company on the defensive.
"That was a very big deal in Japan," said Daniel Baum, a Tokyo-based auto
analyst.
Just as Toyota is poised to pass General Motors Corp. to become the
world's largest automaker, a surge in recalls and the investigation in
Japan risk tarnishing the company's sterling reputation for quality.
Watanabe, a former purchasing manager who became CEO a year ago, senses
the danger. Toyota has grown into the world's richest and second-largest
automaker by offering cars and trucks renowned for their reliability.
"I take this seriously and see it as a crisis," Watanabe said at the
company's midyear news conference. "The world-class quality that we've
achieved is our lifeline."
As Toyota's expansion turns up pressure on other automakers, rivals are
quick to seize on any sign that the formidable Japanese carmaker may be
over-reaching.
Industry experts also question whether Toyota can maintain its torrid
growth pace without compromising quality.
If the trouble is limited to the recent revelations and recalls, Toyota
will ride out this bumpy stretch with little or no damage to its image,
analysts say. That's if no more bad news trickles out.
For a company as large as Toyota, which will build close to 9 million
vehicles this year, some defects and recalls are inevitable.
But last year, Toyota's recalls in the United States were more than double
2004 levels, even as total industry recalls declined.
This past month alone, the Japanese automaker has recalled more than 1
million vehicles worldwide.
Problems range from trim parts that can come loose and fall near the gas
pedal of Toyota Highlander and Lexus RX sport utility vehicles to faulty
engine parts in Echo compacts.
Signals are mixed
By other gauges, Toyota's quality is still top-notch, although competitors
have narrowed -- in a few cases closed -- the gap.
"Toyota does exceptionally well, both in terms of design and defects, and
they do better on defects," said Neal Oddes, director of product research
and analysis at J.D. Power and Associates.
He said Toyota had shown improvement in both J.D. Power's initial quality
study and in its vehicle dependability survey, which rates three-year-old
cars. "Even though they're experiencing recalls now, their quality both in
the short term and long term continues to improve," Oddes said.
Toyota officials say their warranty costs -- the cost of repairing
vehicles under warranty -- also show that quality is improving.
But the investigation in the southern island of Kyushu was disturbing
because it raised the specter of a cover-up.
"The danger is, people will think, 'This is what Mitsubishi did,'" said
Andrew Phillips, Tokyo-based analyst for Nikko Citigroup Ltd., referring
to a spate of vehicle defects concealed by managers at Mitsubishi Motors.
"At Mitsubishi, it was systematic," he said, while police in Kyushu have
said they do not suspect a widespread cover-up.
In the Kyushu case, prosecutors are looking into whether three Toyota
quality-control managers were negligent in their response in the 1990s to
reports of a steering defect. The problem is suspected of being the cause
of an accident that occurred in August 2004, when the driver of an
11-year-old Toyota Hilux Surf sport utility vehicle struck another car,
injuring five people.
Two months later, Toyota recalled 330,000 Hilux Surf SUVs built between
December 1988 and May 1996.
Because the automaker uses the same components across a wide range of
vehicles, the problem eventually led to recalls of more than 1 million
vehicles worldwide.
Toyota says its managers acted correctly, and it is cooperating with the
investigation. According to local media reports, the automaker said it had
received only five reports of steering problems by 1996 and had
strengthened the relay rods in the steering systems.
The case highlights the pressure on auto executives dealing with reports
of problems. Recalls are costly and damaging to a brand's reputation, but
downplaying problems can be extremely risky.
The years-long cover-up of vehicle defects at Mitsubishi led to criminal
convictions and nearly ruined the carmaker.
In Japan, Baum said, automakers may be tempted to avoid the bad publicity
of recalls and alert only dealers of problems that need fixing. "What they
have is six-month checkups, and there are a lot of things they can do in
the guise of half-yearly checkups," said Baum.
"There are a lot of things they can hide."
Toyota owns all of its Japanese dealers.
Baum, an analyst with consulting firm HSLD International, says the current
case is unlikely to undermine Toyota's hold on the Japanese market --
where its share exceeds 40 percent. "This is the first slap on the wrist
for Toyota," he said. "If the steering problem is all they've got, I think
they've got it contained."
Piling on safeguards
In recent years, Toyota has worked hard to introduce new quality-control
processes in tandem with its rapid growth.
As the company builds more plants and absorbs thousands of new workers and
managers, it has revised its training methods.
Assembly directions are now depicted in diagrams that can be understood by
workers in Princeton, Ind., truck plant as well as those in Toyota's new
factories in China.
Last fall, Toyota established a training facility at its Georgetown, Ky.,
plant patterned after the Global Production Center in Japan to teach
standard production methods to new U.S. hires.
In June, Toyota stressed the importance of quality by placing
responsibility for quality with Executive Vice President Akio Toyoda,
grandson of the company's founder. Toyota brought back the head of its
European operations, quality expert Shinichi Sasaki, to assist him.
Nikko Citigroup analyst Phillips says the age of some of the recalled
vehicles leads him to suspect that Toyota's quality suffered in the early
1990s. At that time, the strength of the Japanese yen was eroding the
profitability of Japan's automakers.
In a recent report, Phillips advised investors that, while the rising
recalls were "clearly a negative," they reflect tighter controls.
"Over the past couple of years, they have become a lot stricter," he said.
"They've gone back with a finer-toothed comb and some of these things come
up."
And they're causing headaches for Toyota many years later.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060731/AUTO01/607310359/1148/rss25
--
a9x5l
Ext User(OzOne)
01-08-2006, 09:03 PM
I'll say nothing.....
On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 20:21:42 +1000, a9x5l <a9x5l@hotmail.com>
scribbled thusly:
>Toyota Motor Corp. CEO Katsuaki Watanabe bowed deeply before the cameras
>on July 20 in a humbling moment for the mighty Japanese automaker.
>
>Toyota has come under intense scrutiny as prosecutors in Japan investigate
>its handling of vehicle defects. Separately, the government told Toyota to
>review its policy on recalls and respond to the Transport Ministry by
>Friday.
>
>Ritual apologies are common in Japan, where executives are expected to
>convey their regret for corporate shortcomings.
>
>It's unusual, however, to see executives from Japan's leading industrial
>company on the defensive.
>
>"That was a very big deal in Japan," said Daniel Baum, a Tokyo-based auto
>analyst.
>
>Just as Toyota is poised to pass General Motors Corp. to become the
>world's largest automaker, a surge in recalls and the investigation in
>Japan risk tarnishing the company's sterling reputation for quality.
>
>Watanabe, a former purchasing manager who became CEO a year ago, senses
>the danger. Toyota has grown into the world's richest and second-largest
>automaker by offering cars and trucks renowned for their reliability.
>
>"I take this seriously and see it as a crisis," Watanabe said at the
>company's midyear news conference. "The world-class quality that we've
>achieved is our lifeline."
>
>As Toyota's expansion turns up pressure on other automakers, rivals are
>quick to seize on any sign that the formidable Japanese carmaker may be
>over-reaching.
>
>Industry experts also question whether Toyota can maintain its torrid
>growth pace without compromising quality.
>
>If the trouble is limited to the recent revelations and recalls, Toyota
>will ride out this bumpy stretch with little or no damage to its image,
>analysts say. That's if no more bad news trickles out.
>
>For a company as large as Toyota, which will build close to 9 million
>vehicles this year, some defects and recalls are inevitable.
>
>But last year, Toyota's recalls in the United States were more than double
>2004 levels, even as total industry recalls declined.
>
>This past month alone, the Japanese automaker has recalled more than 1
>million vehicles worldwide.
>
>Problems range from trim parts that can come loose and fall near the gas
>pedal of Toyota Highlander and Lexus RX sport utility vehicles to faulty
>engine parts in Echo compacts.
>
>Signals are mixed
>
>By other gauges, Toyota's quality is still top-notch, although competitors
>have narrowed -- in a few cases closed -- the gap.
>
>"Toyota does exceptionally well, both in terms of design and defects, and
>they do better on defects," said Neal Oddes, director of product research
>and analysis at J.D. Power and Associates.
>
>He said Toyota had shown improvement in both J.D. Power's initial quality
>study and in its vehicle dependability survey, which rates three-year-old
>cars. "Even though they're experiencing recalls now, their quality both in
>the short term and long term continues to improve," Oddes said.
>
>Toyota officials say their warranty costs -- the cost of repairing
>vehicles under warranty -- also show that quality is improving.
>
>But the investigation in the southern island of Kyushu was disturbing
>because it raised the specter of a cover-up.
>
>"The danger is, people will think, 'This is what Mitsubishi did,'" said
>Andrew Phillips, Tokyo-based analyst for Nikko Citigroup Ltd., referring
>to a spate of vehicle defects concealed by managers at Mitsubishi Motors.
>
>"At Mitsubishi, it was systematic," he said, while police in Kyushu have
>said they do not suspect a widespread cover-up.
>
>In the Kyushu case, prosecutors are looking into whether three Toyota
>quality-control managers were negligent in their response in the 1990s to
>reports of a steering defect. The problem is suspected of being the cause
>of an accident that occurred in August 2004, when the driver of an
>11-year-old Toyota Hilux Surf sport utility vehicle struck another car,
>injuring five people.
>
>Two months later, Toyota recalled 330,000 Hilux Surf SUVs built between
>December 1988 and May 1996.
>
>Because the automaker uses the same components across a wide range of
>vehicles, the problem eventually led to recalls of more than 1 million
>vehicles worldwide.
>
>Toyota says its managers acted correctly, and it is cooperating with the
>investigation. According to local media reports, the automaker said it had
>received only five reports of steering problems by 1996 and had
>strengthened the relay rods in the steering systems.
>
>The case highlights the pressure on auto executives dealing with reports
>of problems. Recalls are costly and damaging to a brand's reputation, but
>downplaying problems can be extremely risky.
>
>The years-long cover-up of vehicle defects at Mitsubishi led to criminal
>convictions and nearly ruined the carmaker.
>
>In Japan, Baum said, automakers may be tempted to avoid the bad publicity
>of recalls and alert only dealers of problems that need fixing. "What they
>have is six-month checkups, and there are a lot of things they can do in
>the guise of half-yearly checkups," said Baum.
>
>"There are a lot of things they can hide."
>
>Toyota owns all of its Japanese dealers.
>
>Baum, an analyst with consulting firm HSLD International, says the current
>case is unlikely to undermine Toyota's hold on the Japanese market --
>where its share exceeds 40 percent. "This is the first slap on the wrist
>for Toyota," he said. "If the steering problem is all they've got, I think
>they've got it contained."
>
>Piling on safeguards
>
>In recent years, Toyota has worked hard to introduce new quality-control
>processes in tandem with its rapid growth.
>
>As the company builds more plants and absorbs thousands of new workers and
>managers, it has revised its training methods.
>
>Assembly directions are now depicted in diagrams that can be understood by
>workers in Princeton, Ind., truck plant as well as those in Toyota's new
>factories in China.
>
>Last fall, Toyota established a training facility at its Georgetown, Ky.,
>plant patterned after the Global Production Center in Japan to teach
>standard production methods to new U.S. hires.
>
>In June, Toyota stressed the importance of quality by placing
>responsibility for quality with Executive Vice President Akio Toyoda,
>grandson of the company's founder. Toyota brought back the head of its
>European operations, quality expert Shinichi Sasaki, to assist him.
>
>Nikko Citigroup analyst Phillips says the age of some of the recalled
>vehicles leads him to suspect that Toyota's quality suffered in the early
>1990s. At that time, the strength of the Japanese yen was eroding the
>profitability of Japan's automakers.
>
>In a recent report, Phillips advised investors that, while the rising
>recalls were "clearly a negative," they reflect tighter controls.
>
>"Over the past couple of years, they have become a lot stricter," he said.
>
>"They've gone back with a finer-toothed comb and some of these things come
>up."
>
>And they're causing headaches for Toyota many years later.
>
>
>http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060731/AUTO01/607310359/1148/rss25
Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.
Ext User(the_dawg)
01-08-2006, 09:03 PM
a9x5l wrote:
> But last year, Toyota's recalls in the United States were more than double
> 2004 levels, even as total industry recalls declined.
ToyCo has some issues in me mind ATM.
> In the Kyushu case, prosecutors are looking into whether three Toyota
> quality-control managers were negligent in their response in the 1990s to
> reports of a steering defect. The problem is suspected of being the cause
> of an accident that occurred in August 2004, when the driver of an
> 11-year-old Toyota Hilux Surf sport utility vehicle struck another car,
> injuring five people.
Yeah, however any of this stuff can result in recalls even in a single
vehicle accident. ToyCo will make a million vechicle recall in some
cases over a single incident just to make customers gonads feel good,
or if it resulted in a legal mater, or as long if it does not cost
ToyCo
anything.
There was one over Aus. model diesel 'lux in the 1990s concerning
engine hanger bracket falling off that jambed throttle open, that was
quite
frankly frecking stupid and they went around unbolting the things
at every possible service, put on radio adds, and generally went
ballistic (hey unbolting something you might not use ain't gunna
cost them much). *Hint*, to this day, rotate the clamp on the fuel hose
drain back on the diesel injection pump upwards with fingers, and you
are in for a *far worse* and *very* seriously dangerous throttle
stick/jam
problem. *Don't* think there was a recall on that ever.
I agree that their global production model is gunna bite their
arse, and quite frankly the current products are feck ugly.
ToyCo lost the plot somewhere along the timeframe, I *TOTALLY
LOVE* me current ToyCo 1990/1991 turbo diesel 4x4 'lux and could
live with it for the rest of me life - it just works, looks good and is
100% reliable. Would I buy another new ToyCo product? - prolly not.
Ext User(Blackbird)
01-08-2006, 09:13 PM
<OzOne> wrote in message news:klcuc29pjij47ovqq90aha3ogdv534uk28@4ax.com...
>
>
> I'll say nothing.....
>
Even about this?
"But the investigation in the southern island of Kyushu was disturbing
because it raised the specter of a cover-up.
"The danger is, people will think, 'This is what Mitsubishi did,'" said
Andrew Phillips, Tokyo-based analyst for Nikko Citigroup Ltd., referring
to a spate of vehicle defects concealed by managers at Mitsubishi Motors.
"At Mitsubishi, it was systematic," he said, while police in Kyushu have
said they do not suspect a widespread cover-up."
Bwahahahahahhahaahahahahaha.
Ext User(OzOne)
01-08-2006, 09:23 PM
On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:12:05 +1000, "Blackbird" <Blackbird@net.com>
scribbled thusly:
>
><OzOne> wrote in message news:klcuc29pjij47ovqq90aha3ogdv534uk28@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> I'll say nothing.....
>>
>Even about this?
>
>"But the investigation in the southern island of Kyushu was disturbing
>because it raised the specter of a cover-up.
>
>"The danger is, people will think, 'This is what Mitsubishi did,'" said
>Andrew Phillips, Tokyo-based analyst for Nikko Citigroup Ltd., referring
>to a spate of vehicle defects concealed by managers at Mitsubishi Motors.
>
>"At Mitsubishi, it was systematic," he said, while police in Kyushu have
>said they do not suspect a widespread cover-up."
>
>
>Bwahahahahahhahaahahahahaha.
>
OK, I'll have a giggle at that.....Bwaaahahahhahahahahahaaa!
Not widespread?
Bwaaahhhahahahahhahahahaaaa.....probably just one bloke who put the
paperwork in the bin.....where have I heard that before?
Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.
Ext User(the_dawg)
01-08-2006, 09:23 PM
OzOne wrote:
> I'll say nothing.....
Oh, go on, you know you wanna :-)
Ext User(D Walford)
01-08-2006, 09:43 PM
OzOne wrote:
>
> I'll say nothing.....
Nothing worth saying, at the present time no other car maker mass
produces anything as well made and reliable as Toyota, like all cars
they have their faults but no where near as many as other manufactures.
Daryl
Ext User(the_dawg)
01-08-2006, 10:03 PM
D Walford wrote:
> OzOne wrote:
> >
> > I'll say nothing.....
>
> Nothing worth saying, at the present time no other car maker mass
> produces anything as well made and reliable as Toyota, like all cars
> they have their faults but no where near as many as other manufactures.
Yep, I'll award them that, they have a feck load of know how in
doing so.
For me, and I'll mention this about a 1990s L/C 80 series
purchaser I knew who made an interesting comment to me
on buying his new vehicle "They care about every vehicle
they produce".
Not sure I'd have an easy time over that statement these
days. It certainly was was the case though - otherwise
ToyCo would not have got themselves so far into the
industry.
Ext User(OzOne)
01-08-2006, 10:53 PM
On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 21:36:37 +1000, D Walford <walford@iprimus.com.au>
scribbled thusly:
>OzOne wrote:
>>
>> I'll say nothing.....
>
>Nothing worth saying, at the present time no other car maker mass
>produces anything as well made and reliable as Toyota, like all cars
>they have their faults but no where near as many as other manufactures.
>
>
>Daryl
Ummm Dazz...this is about a coverup.........
Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.
Ext User(OzOne)
01-08-2006, 11:03 PM
On 1 Aug 2006 05:03:53 -0700, "the_dawg"
<patrick@hilux.ace.unsw.EDU.AU> scribbled thusly:
>
>D Walford wrote:
>> OzOne wrote:
>> >
>> > I'll say nothing.....
>>
>> Nothing worth saying, at the present time no other car maker mass
>> produces anything as well made and reliable as Toyota, like all cars
>> they have their faults but no where near as many as other manufactures.
>
>Yep, I'll award them that, they have a feck load of know how in
>doing so.
>
>For me, and I'll mention this about a 1990s L/C 80 series
>purchaser I knew who made an interesting comment to me
>on buying his new vehicle "They care about every vehicle
>they produce".
>
>Not sure I'd have an easy time over that statement these
>days. It certainly was was the case though - otherwise
>ToyCo would not have got themselves so far into the
>industry.
Was it the LC 80 that had all the dramas with premature engine
failures that too Toyota ages to acknowledge and even when they knew
they had a grenade, wouldn't do any fixes out of the warranty period.
Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.
Ext User(Jason James)
02-08-2006, 02:33 AM
"D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:44cf3cc1$0$485$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
> OzOne wrote:
> >
> > I'll say nothing.....
>
> Nothing worth saying, at the present time no other car maker mass
> produces anything as well made and reliable as Toyota, like all cars
> they have their faults but no where near as many as other manufactures.
>
>
> Daryl
Toyota make car-parts which last longer. How does this happen, well, lets
look at CV joints and wheel bearings. They appear to use case-hardening to a
greater depth in the tracks of these parts. My '95 Camry has 176,000 ks on
it, and the wheel bearings and CVs are still quiet and function as new. Not
the case with a Magna which chopped out CVs at 115,000ks. Both cars had
intact CV boots.
The Camry quickly accelerates to 140 kph with little wind noise or
mechanical noise. The magna struggled to reach that speed and when it was
driven at 120kph to keep up with a line of traffic driving from the central
west to Musselbrook, it broke an exhaust manifold stud off,..which is a
common problem with Magnas of that era 1989. The Camry studs are 2mm
thicker.
Suspension struts: the Camry has the original struts which give a stable
highway cruising ride thru hill and dale, the Magna at 115,000ks on the
otherhand, had stuffed struts which caused a rocking motion as the car
traversed undulations in the road surface.
Engine condition: the Camry does have a layer of black crud in the engine
which appears to be tied-up with inadequant oil-changes at sometime earlier
in its life,..yet at at 176,000ks the engine does not turn the oil black as
the Magna did in 2500ks after oil/filter change. The Camry's oil was still
partly honey-like in appearance after 2000ks.
While the Magna interior was at least as good as the Toyota, that was where
the comparison ended. The subsequent engine problems the Magna experienced
caused the inconvenient belt replacement regime of the Toyota to pale into
insignificance. The Magna subsequently in the 30,000 ks I had it, needed new
chains, a water-pump and an alternator. The Camry needed none of these, yet
it had over 100,000ks more on the clock,..draw your own conclusions.
Jason
Ext User(OzOne)
02-08-2006, 09:14 AM
On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:25:39 GMT, "Jason James" <home@work.1.0>
scribbled thusly:
>
>"D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
>news:44cf3cc1$0$485$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
>> OzOne wrote:
>> >
>> > I'll say nothing.....
>>
>> Nothing worth saying, at the present time no other car maker mass
>> produces anything as well made and reliable as Toyota, like all cars
>> they have their faults but no where near as many as other manufactures.
>>
>>
>> Daryl
>
>Toyota make car-parts which last longer. How does this happen, well, lets
>look at CV joints and wheel bearings. They appear to use case-hardening to a
>greater depth in the tracks of these parts. My '95 Camry has 176,000 ks on
>it, and the wheel bearings and CVs are still quiet and function as new. Not
>the case with a Magna which chopped out CVs at 115,000ks. Both cars had
>intact CV boots.
That's very interesting....my '96 Magna has well over 200,00km and as
I'd expect from any car, the CV's are like new as are wheel bearings.
My Triton has in excess of 400,00km and I believe may be due for a RH
front wheel bearing.....
>
>The Camry quickly accelerates to 140 kph with little wind noise or
>mechanical noise. The magna struggled to reach that speed and when it was
>driven at 120kph to keep up with a line of traffic driving from the central
>west to Musselbrook, it broke an exhaust manifold stud off,..which is a
>common problem with Magnas of that era 1989. The Camry studs are 2mm
>thicker.
Ahhhh now I see, you're comparing an old model Maga '89 to a much
later model Camry '95.
Can you tell me why doing 140kph broke a manifold stud?
Was your Magna a 4cylinder?
>
>Suspension struts: the Camry has the original struts which give a stable
>highway cruising ride thru hill and dale, the Magna at 115,000ks on the
>otherhand, had stuffed struts which caused a rocking motion as the car
>traversed undulations in the road surface.
Bwaaahahahahhahahahahaaa!
>
>Engine condition: the Camry does have a layer of black crud in the engine
>which appears to be tied-up with inadequant oil-changes at sometime earlier
>in its life,..yet at at 176,000ks the engine does not turn the oil black as
>the Magna did in 2500ks after oil/filter change. The Camry's oil was still
>partly honey-like in appearance after 2000ks.
Bwaaahahahahhahahhahahhahahahahahahahahaaaa!
>
>While the Magna interior was at least as good as the Toyota, that was where
>the comparison ended. The subsequent engine problems the Magna experienced
>caused the inconvenient belt replacement regime of the Toyota to pale into
>insignificance. The Magna subsequently in the 30,000 ks I had it, needed new
>chains, a water-pump and an alternator. The Camry needed none of these, yet
>it had over 100,000ks more on the clock
Jason, do you know anything about cars?
What mileage did the Magna have on it when you bought it?
What was it's service history.....
>..draw your own conclusions.
>
>Jason
>
Drawn........
Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.
Ext User(OzOne)
02-08-2006, 09:14 AM
On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:25:39 GMT, "Jason James" <home@work.1.0>
scribbled thusly:
>
>Jason
>
And this has what exactly to do with Toyotas recall coverups?
Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.
Ext User(D Walford)
02-08-2006, 03:43 PM
OzOne wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 21:36:37 +1000, D Walford <walford@iprimus.com.au>
> scribbled thusly:
>
>> OzOne wrote:
>>> I'll say nothing.....
>> Nothing worth saying, at the present time no other car maker mass
>> produces anything as well made and reliable as Toyota, like all cars
>> they have their faults but no where near as many as other manufactures.
>>
>>
>> Daryl
>
> Ummm Dazz...this is about a coverup.........
Unless I missed something in the article a "coverup" appears not to
exist except for a minor indiscretion on the part of some insignificant
employees.
Daryl
Ext User(D Walford)
02-08-2006, 03:53 PM
OzOne wrote:
> On 1 Aug 2006 05:03:53 -0700, "the_dawg"
> <patrick@hilux.ace.unsw.EDU.AU> scribbled thusly:
>
>> D Walford wrote:
>>> OzOne wrote:
>>>> I'll say nothing.....
>>> Nothing worth saying, at the present time no other car maker mass
>>> produces anything as well made and reliable as Toyota, like all cars
>>> they have their faults but no where near as many as other manufactures.
>> Yep, I'll award them that, they have a feck load of know how in
>> doing so.
>>
>> For me, and I'll mention this about a 1990s L/C 80 series
>> purchaser I knew who made an interesting comment to me
>> on buying his new vehicle "They care about every vehicle
>> they produce".
>>
>> Not sure I'd have an easy time over that statement these
>> days. It certainly was was the case though - otherwise
>> ToyCo would not have got themselves so far into the
>> industry.
>
> Was it the LC 80 that had all the dramas with premature engine
> failures that too Toyota ages to acknowledge and even when they knew
> they had a grenade, wouldn't do any fixes out of the warranty period.
80 series turbo diesels had problems with big end bearing failures which
AFAIK was due to either faulty or incorrect bearing shells, most if not
all were repaired FOC under warranty.
If were refused warranty it would have been because they didn't fail
till long after the warranty expired, only person I know who had a
bearing problem with one of those owned an engine reco business so he
fixed himself but when it failed it was at least 7 yrs old.
Early 80 series petrol engines were the same engine as fitted to the
last of the 60 series, not known as a good engine but not problematic
AFAIK.
Daryl
Ext User(Jason James)
03-08-2006, 06:24 AM
<OzOne> wrote in message news:qqlvc2160itkjrp70i5af5vcsh7vfrn4b9@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:25:39 GMT, "Jason James" <home@work.1.0>
> scribbled thusly:
>
> >
> >"D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
>
>news:44cf3cc1$0$485$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.co
m.au...
> >> OzOne wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I'll say nothing.....
> >>
> >> Nothing worth saying, at the present time no other car maker mass
> >> produces anything as well made and reliable as Toyota, like all cars
> >> they have their faults but no where near as many as other manufactures.
> >>
> >>
> >> Daryl
> >
> >Toyota make car-parts which last longer. How does this happen, well, lets
> >look at CV joints and wheel bearings. They appear to use case-hardening
to a
> >greater depth in the tracks of these parts. My '95 Camry has 176,000 ks
on
> >it, and the wheel bearings and CVs are still quiet and function as new.
Not
> >the case with a Magna which chopped out CVs at 115,000ks. Both cars had
> >intact CV boots.
>
> That's very interesting....my '96 Magna has well over 200,00km and as
> I'd expect from any car, the CV's are like new as are wheel bearings.
> My Triton has in excess of 400,00km and I believe may be due for a RH
> front wheel bearing.....
> >
> >The Camry quickly accelerates to 140 kph with little wind noise or
> >mechanical noise. The magna struggled to reach that speed and when it was
> >driven at 120kph to keep up with a line of traffic driving from the
central
> >west to Musselbrook, it broke an exhaust manifold stud off,..which is a
> >common problem with Magnas of that era 1989. The Camry studs are 2mm
> >thicker.
>
> Ahhhh now I see, you're comparing an old model Maga '89 to a much
> later model Camry '95.
> Can you tell me why doing 140kph broke a manifold stud?
> Was your Magna a 4cylinder?
It broke the stud because at high speed the exhaust manifold gets much
hotter and expands. The stud snapped off because it couldn't handle the
expansion,..useless design. It was a 2600 cc, the Camry a 2200cc,..the Camry
shitted all over it in performance and durability.
> >Suspension struts: the Camry has the original struts which give a stable
> >highway cruising ride thru hill and dale, the Magna at 115,000ks on the
> >otherhand, had stuffed struts which caused a rocking motion as the car
> >traversed undulations in the road surface.
>
> Bwaaahahahahhahahahahaaa!
Yes the Magna struts were laughable.
> >Engine condition: the Camry does have a layer of black crud in the engine
> >which appears to be tied-up with inadequant oil-changes at sometime
earlier
> >in its life,..yet at at 176,000ks the engine does not turn the oil black
as
> >the Magna did in 2500ks after oil/filter change. The Camry's oil was
still
> >partly honey-like in appearance after 2000ks.
>
> Bwaaahahahahhahahhahahhahahahahahahahahaaaa!
> >
> >While the Magna interior was at least as good as the Toyota, that was
where
> >the comparison ended. The subsequent engine problems the Magna
experienced
> >caused the inconvenient belt replacement regime of the Toyota to pale
into
> >insignificance. The Magna subsequently in the 30,000 ks I had it, needed
new
> >chains, a water-pump and an alternator. The Camry needed none of these,
yet
> >it had over 100,000ks more on the clock
>
> Jason, do you know anything about cars?
> What mileage did the Magna have on it when you bought it?
> What was it's service history.....
> >..draw your own conclusions.
The Magna had 115,000 ks on it at purchase (as I had indicated earlier), the
Magna had no sludge build-up internally in the motor,..so draw your own
conclusion as to servicing. It was a POS compared to the Toyota.
One thing I forgot, the Camry is now 11 years old, yet it still has the
original exhaust system.
Jason
Ext User(Jason James)
03-08-2006, 06:24 AM
<OzOne> wrote in message news:ucmvc29qktl3bgtmsg4hib6d9ova027iou@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:25:39 GMT, "Jason James" <home@work.1.0>
> scribbled thusly:
>
>
>
>
> >
> >Jason
> >
> And this has what exactly to do with Toyotas recall coverups?
It goes to show what superior vehicles Toyotas have been, and thus provides
a background to view the allegations,..Ozzy :-)
Jason
Ext User(OzOne)
03-08-2006, 04:43 PM
On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 20:13:55 GMT, "Jason James" <home@work.1.0>
scribbled thusly:
>
><OzOne> wrote in message news:ucmvc29qktl3bgtmsg4hib6d9ova027iou@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:25:39 GMT, "Jason James" <home@work.1.0>
>> scribbled thusly:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Jason
>> >
>> And this has what exactly to do with Toyotas recall coverups?
>
>It goes to show what superior vehicles Toyotas have been, and thus provides
>a background to view the allegations,..Ozzy :-)
>
>Jason
>
No, it doesn't.
It recalls your experience with two secondhand cars....
Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.
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