VL engine conversion into HZ

[Ext User(Benny)]

i was offered a VL six engine to install in my car
they told me that all i hav to modify is the sump
install a fuel pump at the tank
i was also told the engine mounts will line straight up
it doesnt sound all that hard
can anyone help me with this plz?
anyone done this same conversion?
thanks

[Ext User(tipsy@beerlover.com)]

On 1 Aug 2006 03:50:13 -0700, "Benny" <ben.mcwhirter@gmail.com> wrote:

> i was offered a VL six engine to install in my car
> they told me that all i hav to modify is the sump
> install a fuel pump at the tank
> i was also told the engine mounts will line straight up
> it doesnt sound all that hard
> can anyone help me with this plz?
> anyone done this same conversion?

A waste of time.

[Ext User(mackeb)]

Benny wrote:
> i was offered a VL six engine to install in my car
> they told me that all i hav to modify is the sump
> install a fuel pump at the tank
> i was also told the engine mounts will line straight up
> it doesnt sound all that hard
> can anyone help me with this plz?
> anyone done this same conversion?
> thanks

No, no, no don't do it!!!!

What about transmissions? Diffs? EFI Wiring etc, gauges and senders.
You need to give this some more thought.

Really, a HZ is quite a heavy vehicle for the nissan 6.

While it is a good motor, even the VL Turbo makes only 7 Nm more torque
than a 4 barrel 253 (don't forget, the 253 is a carby'd motor with
terrible cylinder heads from stock). 253=289 Nm while VL Turbo = 296 Nm

Like I said (and a few others), go for the 253. This way you get
decent conversion for half the cost and if you set it up right, the
motor will probably be more reliable to boot.

I know more than a few people with VLs or RB30s and all of them have
various problems like busted airflow sensors or faulty ECMs etc.

Go get yourself a rebuilt 253 for $700 or so with a four barrel carb
and drop it straight in. Easy

[Ext User(D Walford)]

Benny wrote:
> i was offered a VL six engine to install in my car
> they told me that all i hav to modify is the sump
> install a fuel pump at the tank
> i was also told the engine mounts will line straight up
> it doesnt sound all that hard
> can anyone help me with this plz?

Does the engine come with its wiring loom and computer?
If it doesn't forget it.
You will also need the VL trans and wiring because AFAIK it has an
electronically controlled overdrive.
The easiest way to do a job like that would be to have the complete
donor car to remove parts from as needed.
You don't need to install a fuel pump inside the tank if you use the
right pump but you will need a return line to the tank.
Modifying the sump isn't difficult but most likely you will also need to
modify the oil pick up and if that isn't done properly you could have
oil surge which will destroy the engine very quickly.


Daryl

[Ext User(John McKenzie)]

Benny wrote:
>
> i was offered a VL six engine to install in my car
> they told me that all i hav to modify is the sump
> install a fuel pump at the tank
> i was also told the engine mounts will line straight up
> it doesnt sound all that hard
> can anyone help me with this plz?
> anyone done this same conversion?
> thanks

problem will be that it's still just a 3 litre motor in a modestly heavy
car. the rb30 isn't a bad engine, but it'll be far from new now, and
whilst they weren't shitful, they did have a problem or two maintenance
wise (including headgaskets/cracked/warped heads - if poorly maintained,
and a couple of things re the engine management).

You'll end up spending more doing that than you'll ever get satisfaction
from in terms of performance etc.

--
John McKenzie

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[Ext User(Clockmeister)]

"mackeb" <mackeb@cen.prendiville.wa.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1154432698.363048.285110@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
>
> Benny wrote:
>> i was offered a VL six engine to install in my car
>> they told me that all i hav to modify is the sump
>> install a fuel pump at the tank
>> i was also told the engine mounts will line straight up
>> it doesnt sound all that hard
>> can anyone help me with this plz?
>> anyone done this same conversion?
>> thanks
>
> No, no, no don't do it!!!!
>
> What about transmissions? Diffs? EFI Wiring etc, gauges and senders.
> You need to give this some more thought.
>
> Really, a HZ is quite a heavy vehicle for the nissan 6.
>
> While it is a good motor, even the VL Turbo makes only 7 Nm more torque
> than a 4 barrel 253 (don't forget, the 253 is a carby'd motor with
> terrible cylinder heads from stock). 253=289 Nm while VL Turbo = 296 Nm

The 253 is a shitful engine and as much a waste of time as putting in a VL
6.

[Ext User(FuTAnT)]

"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:12cv9a6qsf8dl0f@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "mackeb" <mackeb@cen.prendiville.wa.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:1154432698.363048.285110@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
>>
>> Benny wrote:
>>> i was offered a VL six engine to install in my car
>>> they told me that all i hav to modify is the sump
>>> install a fuel pump at the tank
>>> i was also told the engine mounts will line straight up
>>> it doesnt sound all that hard
>>> can anyone help me with this plz?
>>> anyone done this same conversion?
>>> thanks
>>
>> No, no, no don't do it!!!!
>>
>> What about transmissions? Diffs? EFI Wiring etc, gauges and senders.
>> You need to give this some more thought.
>>
>> Really, a HZ is quite a heavy vehicle for the nissan 6.
>>
>> While it is a good motor, even the VL Turbo makes only 7 Nm more torque
>> than a 4 barrel 253 (don't forget, the 253 is a carby'd motor with
>> terrible cylinder heads from stock). 253=289 Nm while VL Turbo = 296 Nm
>
> The 253 is a shitful engine and as much a waste of time as putting in a VL
> 6.
>
>
>

Well, actually, it's not. They can be made to run very sweetly with a bit of
love, just they seem to get forgotten when everyone wants to go for the 308
or just straight to the 350 chev. They're not half as bad as people make
them out to be. More likely those who just like the "i've got a bigger cock
than you" argument. Even the Rochester 4bl can be flowed and tuned up
nicely. Far better than those POS Holleys. For a cheap mild engine they do
run very sweet.

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Clockmeister" <no-one@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:12cv9a6qsf8dl0f@corp.supernews.com...

> The 253 is a shitful engine and as much a waste of time as putting in a VL
> 6.

I agree.

I'd stick with the red 202 and just drive it around until you decide what
decent car to buy.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(mackeb)]

> > The 253 is a shitful engine and as much a waste of time as putting in a VL
> > 6.
>
> I agree.
>
> I'd stick with the red 202 and just drive it around until you decide what
> decent car to buy.

Are you for real????

Could you be that stupid?

I *guarantee* that any dollars spend on a 202 would be far, far better
spent on a 253 in a full sized Holden.

FWIW, I just got some Pacemaker headers fitted to the HJ, which even
with its 3 speed manual and up a steep hill cracked 100 km/h in about 5
seconds (timed with a stop watch).

I'd like to see a N/A 202 do that and still be reliable enough for peak
hour traffic.

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"mackeb" <mackeb@cen.prendiville.wa.edu.au> wrote in message

> Are you for real????
>
> Could you be that stupid?

Seings how you have a couple of 253's, you're probably not the best person
to be asking that question :)

> I *guarantee* that any dollars spend on a 202 would be far, far better
> spent on a 253 in a full sized Holden.

Can you?

> FWIW, I just got some Pacemaker headers fitted to the HJ, which even
> with its 3 speed manual and up a steep hill cracked 100 km/h in about 5
> seconds (timed with a stop watch).

Wow. I'm impressed.

Really, I am.

> I'd like to see a N/A 202 do that and still be reliable enough for peak
> hour traffic.

The kid is a young P plater and this sounds like his first car. He should
just spend the *minimum* he needs to get by with until he's able to get
something decent.

And 253's are fucking *far* from decent in anyone's books.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(D Walford)]

Noddy wrote:

> And 253's are fucking *far* from decent in anyone's books.

I tend to agree but my opinion of any locally made Holden engine isn't high.
I think I pissed off a bloke at work the other day when I told him his
253 was a POS, his car is actually in great condition and looks quite
good for an old VH.
He wanted to know why I thought the 253 was crap and I told it was
poorly made, lacked power and drank too much petrol but that didn't
convince him, I know you are right but what is technically wrong with them?
I'd really like to know so I can piss him off properly:-)


Daryl

[Ext User(a9x5l)]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:35:23 -0700, mackeb wrote:

>
>> > The 253 is a shitful engine and as much a waste of time as putting in a VL
>> > 6.
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>> I'd stick with the red 202 and just drive it around until you decide what
>> decent car to buy.
>
> Are you for real????
>
> Could you be that stupid?
>
> I *guarantee* that any dollars spend on a 202 would be far, far better
> spent on a 253 in a full sized Holden.
>
> FWIW, I just got some Pacemaker headers fitted to the HJ, which even
> with its 3 speed manual and up a steep hill cracked 100 km/h in about 5
> seconds (timed with a stop watch).

They must be a *really* special set of headers. A car that does 0-100 in
5 seconds will normally run 13's over the 1/4. Are you saying your car is
that quick? I'd suggest you buy a new stopwatch(or get your speedo
calibrated!).


--
a9x5l

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:44d1e0b0$0$495$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-

> I'd really like to know so I can piss him off properly:-)

Tell him they have oil pumps made of plasticine, heads that breathe as well
as an asthmatic smoker and cast iron that crumbles like dry putty.

And they make slightly more power than a pokie machine :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Clockmeister)]

"mackeb" <mackeb@cen.prendiville.wa.edu.au> wrote in message
news:1154601323.532107.323200@m79g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com...
>
>> > The 253 is a shitful engine and as much a waste of time as putting in a
>> > VL
>> > 6.
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>> I'd stick with the red 202 and just drive it around until you decide what
>> decent car to buy.
>
> Are you for real????
>
> Could you be that stupid?
>
> I *guarantee* that any dollars spend on a 202 would be far, far better
> spent on a 253 in a full sized Holden.

I can also catagorically guarantee that any money spent on a 253 is a
complete waste.

> FWIW, I just got some Pacemaker headers fitted to the HJ, which even
> with its 3 speed manual and up a steep hill cracked 100 km/h in about 5
> seconds (timed with a stop watch).

Yeh, and a VN V6 does the 1/4 mile in 10 seconds...

> I'd like to see a N/A 202 do that and still be reliable enough for peak
> hour traffic.
>

A mildly modified 202 is plenty fine for a P plater until he can get a
better car.

Wasting money on a 253 is just that, a waste of money.

[Ext User(Clockmeister)]

"Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:44d1eaa1$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
> news:44d1e0b0$0$495$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
>
>> I'd really like to know so I can piss him off properly:-)
>
> Tell him they have oil pumps made of plasticine, heads that breathe as
> well as an asthmatic smoker and cast iron that crumbles like dry putty.
>
> And they make slightly more power than a pokie machine :)
>

That pretty much sums it up ;-)

[Ext User(Neil Fisher)]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 12:22:58 GMT, "Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au>, after
considering some belly-button fluf, wrote:

[...]

>And they make slightly more power than a pokie machine :)

You wouldn't be saying that if you lived in the pokie capital of the
world - Sydney! Our state budget would be in even more of a black hole
if we didn't have *that* revenue stream.

Neil
---
Neil Fisher / Bob Young
Thundercords
personal opinion unless otherwise noted.
Looking for spark plug leads?
Check out http://www.magnecor.com.au

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Neil Fisher" <NeilFisher@_NOSPAM_magnecor.com.au> wrote in message

> You wouldn't be saying that if you lived in the pokie capital of the
> world - Sydney! Our state budget would be in even more of a black hole
> if we didn't have *that* revenue stream.

I thought Melbourne was supposed to be the worst?

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(John McKenzie)]

a9x5l wrote:
>
> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:35:23 -0700, mackeb wrote:
>
> >
> >> > The 253 is a shitful engine and as much a waste of time as putting in a VL
> >> > 6.
> >>
> >> I agree.
> >>
> >> I'd stick with the red 202 and just drive it around until you decide what
> >> decent car to buy.
> >
> > Are you for real????
> >
> > Could you be that stupid?
> >
> > I *guarantee* that any dollars spend on a 202 would be far, far better
> > spent on a 253 in a full sized Holden.
> >
> > FWIW, I just got some Pacemaker headers fitted to the HJ, which even
> > with its 3 speed manual and up a steep hill cracked 100 km/h in about 5
> > seconds (timed with a stop watch).
>
> They must be a *really* special set of headers. A car that does 0-100 in
> 5 seconds will normally run 13's over the 1/4.

Yeah but up a steep hill would probably suggest it's more like a 11
second 1/4. I'm inclined to think that this is not a brag, but a typo,
or a left out word or something that is changing the context, maybe like
it's the 60-100km/h time up a steep hill.


--
John McKenzie

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[Ext User(John McKenzie)]

mackeb wrote:
>
> > > The 253 is a shitful engine and as much a waste of time as putting in a VL
> > > 6.
> >
> > I agree.
> >
> > I'd stick with the red 202 and just drive it around until you decide what
> > decent car to buy.
>
> Are you for real????
>
> Could you be that stupid?
>
> I *guarantee* that any dollars spend on a 202 would be far, far better
> spent on a 253 in a full sized Holden.

I'd argue the contrary to some extent. Firstly, finding a YT head for a
202 is usually childs play. People just aren't into 202s as much as v8s
any more. Getting the same for a v8 holden will cost some bucks.

He's already got the 202, the manifold, the holley, and extractors.

To go to a 253 will cost.

202s aren't magical by any means, but they are far less upset by being
pushed to moderate-high rpms for extended and repeated periods. they
have a better oiling system and run fine in well maintained but std form
(nothing more than a shim on a stock oil pump is needed to get the
pressure and flow where it needs to be, because the pump volume is
already greater than needed, much is bypassed with the std spring. I
don't want to get into the pressure vs volume and then by extension oil
film strength argument, as my posts are painfully long as it is, but
suffice to say one small shim (around 1mm)on the oil pump relief valve
spring is all that's needed.

Interestingly, the 253 weighs as much as a 308 (or so close as to be of
no real issue). which means the car will be heavier. it will affect the
handling to a small extent (and would 'ideally' also mean you'd want to
replace the front springs to suit)

>
> FWIW, I just got some Pacemaker headers fitted to the HJ, which even
> with its 3 speed manual and up a steep hill cracked 100 km/h in about 5
> seconds (timed with a stop watch).

what speed did it start at?

>
> I'd like to see a N/A 202 do that and still be reliable enough for peak
> hour traffic.

If it was reliability, I'd put the 202 well ahead. TO be perfectly fair,
I'd put the 173 down as possibly the most reliable still (with shorter
stroke, and therefore better rod ratio, and thicker bore walls (yes they
are thicker on most 173s) and the fact it wouldn't likely have been
thrashed as much as a 186 or 202) - a not all that inspiring but
extrememely reliable unit.


--
John McKenzie

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[Ext User(the_dawg)]

Neil Fisher wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 12:22:58 GMT, "Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au>, after
> considering some belly-button fluf, wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >And they make slightly more power than a pokie machine :)
>
> You wouldn't be saying that if you lived in the pokie capital of the
> world - Sydney! Our state budget would be in even more of a black hole
> if we didn't have *that* revenue stream.

You would certainly be thinking that when offered a free chocky bar,
and a 2nd "match rego #" promotional ticket, on a $5 scratchy that
at best will win you .... guess what! ... another $5 scratchy :-)