Where can i buy 16 ohm Surround Sound speakers from?

[Ext User(Gyro)]

At the rear of our hifi there's outputs for surround sound speakers but
the manual says to use 16 ohm surround speakers.

What would happen if i connected 8 ohm speakers to those outputs?
because 8 ohm speakers are easy to find.

Btw, i'm in Perth but ordering online is fine. The speakers can't be
too big because it's all got to fit into a bookshelf type entertainment
unit. Say, 25cm wide x 30cm high x 25cm deep, or there abouts for each
speaker.

cheers.

[Ext User(Netmask)]

"Gyro" <gyro@nospamplease.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:44dbc65b$0$15992$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> At the rear of our hifi there's outputs for surround sound speakers but
> the manual says to use 16 ohm surround speakers.
>
> What would happen if i connected 8 ohm speakers to those outputs? because
> 8 ohm speakers are easy to find.
>
> Btw, i'm in Perth but ordering online is fine. The speakers can't be too
> big because it's all got to fit into a bookshelf type entertainment unit.
> Say, 25cm wide x 30cm high x 25cm deep, or there abouts for each speaker.
>
> cheers.

What brand is the amp - it sounds like an older design? These days most
speakers are 8 ohm. Depending on the amp, especially if it is a modern amp
connecting 8's won't make any significant difference. Is the amp a 4 channel
or 5.1?

[Ext User(Gyro)]

Netmask wrote:
>
> What brand is the amp - it sounds like an older design? These days most
> speakers are 8 ohm. Depending on the amp, especially if it is a modern amp
> connecting 8's won't make any significant difference. Is the amp a 4 channel
> or 5.1?
>
>

Hi Netmask,
The amp is a 4 channel AIWA from a midi 3cd disc/radio/dual cassette
hifi unit.

My folks bought it, at least 9 years ago maybe more, for a second TV
room but it was hardly ever used and so now they've given it to me.
Even though it's old, it has aux/video inputs, optical audio input and
surround speaker inputs and is made in Japan. It's in mint condition
and sounds pretty good and has a great remote.

In another usenet group, a poster said i should connect 2 x 8ohm
surround speakers to each surround output(there are two of them) and
connect them in series so that the amp still sees 16ohms on each channel.

I was going to go out today to buy 4 good quality 8ohm surround satellites.

[Ext User(dezza)]

Gyro wrote:

> I was going to go out today to buy 4 good quality 8ohm surround
satellites.




Satellites can not play low frequency sounds (bass). I hope you meant
bookshelf speakers, or maybe you have a subwoofer that you plan to use
with the satellites.

Dezza.

[Ext User(Gyro)]

dezza wrote:
> Gyro wrote:
>
> > I was going to go out today to buy 4 good quality 8ohm surround
> satellites.
>
>
>
>
> Satellites can not play low frequency sounds (bass). I hope you meant
> bookshelf speakers, or maybe you have a subwoofer that you plan to use
> with the satellites.
>
> Dezza.
>

hi Dezza,
The two speakers there atm consist of 2 x 3way(150mm woofer, 60mm
tweeter, 25mm super tweeter) ones. I was going to use the surround
speakers, when i buy them, as rear speakers.
Should i buy satellite surrounds or bookshelf speakers?

thanks.

[Ext User(dezza)]

>
> hi Dezza,
> The two speakers there atm consist of 2 x 3way(150mm woofer, 60mm
> tweeter, 25mm super tweeter) ones. I was going to use the surround
> speakers, when i buy them, as rear speakers.
> Should i buy satellite surrounds or bookshelf speakers?
>
> thanks.


Well, from the info you gave about your amp, I am guessing that your
amp will only send a full frequency signal to all four channels. In
other words, the low bass sounds and the high frequency sounds, In
which case I would use bookshelf speakers all round.
Can you tell us if you are wanting to listen to music only or listen to
movies as well.

Modern day home theatre receivers can send the Low frequency sounds to
the front main speakers and/or the subwoofer and will let you use
satellites for the rear if you desire. However I would still use
bookshelves for the rear in this case as I believe they would give a
higher quality sound.

Dezza.

[Ext User(Gyro)]

dezza wrote:

> Well, from the info you gave about your amp, I am guessing that your
> amp will only send a full frequency signal to all four channels. In
> other words, the low bass sounds and the high frequency sounds, In
> which case I would use bookshelf speakers all round.
> Can you tell us if you are wanting to listen to music only or listen to
> movies as well.
>
> Modern day home theatre receivers can send the Low frequency sounds to
> the front main speakers and/or the subwoofer and will let you use
> satellites for the rear if you desire. However I would still use
> bookshelves for the rear in this case as I believe they would give a
> higher quality sound.
>
> Dezza.
>

We will be mainly using it to listen to movies.
I had a look in the manual and under the pic of the rear surround
speaker inputs it says,

Notes
* The surround effect will not work with monaural sources.
* Connect only surround speakers to the SURROUND SPEAKER jacks.
* Use surround speakers with an impedance of 16 ohms.
* Be sure to connect surround speakers to both left and right jacks.

[PCORF]

Its almost impossible to find 16 ohm speakers. Most are 6 or 8 ohm and your only hope is to connect two 8 ohm speakers into a series which doubles impedance. But even if you do connect 8 ohm speakers you are unlikley to do your amp much damage, as long as you don't push it too much (like over 80%). I have been running 6 ohm speakers from my 8 ohm unit for many years and have never done any damage, but don't blast it much. It might be best to get an AV reciever, which can take 4-8 ohm speakers.

[Ext User(Gyro)]

PCORF wrote:
> Its almost impossible to find 16 ohm speakers. Most are 6 or 8 ohm and
> your only hope is to wire two 8 ohm speakers into a series. But even if
> you do wire 8 ohm speakers you are unlikley to you amp much damage, as
> long as you don't push it too much. I have been running 6 ohm speakers
> from my 8 ohm unit for many years and have never done any damage, but
> don't blast it much.

Hi PCORF,
Okay, i might just try using one good pair of 8 ohm speakers first then.
We never crank up the stereo really high because of our neighbours
anyway. The volume knob never even reaches halfway because there's
plenty of power coming out of it for us.

Which type of speaker do you recommend, surround speakers or bookshelf
speakers for the rear?

Btw, what's the difference between a 16 ohm amplifier and the new 8 ohm
amplifiers? Is less Impedance better?

> It might be best to get an AV reciever, which can
> take 4-8 ohm speakers.
>

At next year's end-of-year financial sales, we're planning on buying an
LCD TV and probably a HTIAB package like the Sony HTDDW1500 on interest
free terms,
http://www.sony.com.au/homecinema/catalog/product.jsp?categoryId=22836#

We have the AIWA hifi my folks gave me connected to our normal CRT TV at
this time.

cheers

[Ext User(Gyro)]

I've been doing a fair bit of reading in www.avsforum.com and i think i
understand now what you were saying.

If i just buy surround satellites the system wont sound that great, or
much improved, because i don't have a separate woofer for the bass.
Therefore, i need to buy decent bookshelf speakers for better total
audio enhancement.

Btw, the current two speakers there now are 6 ohms x 60W(RMS) each.
How come in the manual it asks for the rear surrounds to be 16 ohms ?
Could it be a typo and it should read 6 ohms?

thanks

[Ext User(dezza)]

Ok,

If movies are your main interest, then anything less than a modern
receiver is not going to give you the effect that dvd was designed to
give.
They contain a surround processor that will send the different audio
effects to the correct speakers. IE - The action and explosive sounds
will be sent to the front mains and the subwooofer. The dialogue will
be sent to the centre speaker and the surround (background) sounds such
as crouds cheering, doors closing etc will be sent to the rear
speakers. Unfortunately your amp is not going to do this for you.

If you want good sound that you will be happy with for a long time then
you need to do it properly from the start or you will end up chasing
your tail.
The sony system you mentioned will give the effect of surround sound
that I mentioned above but the quality of sound will be low compared
with a more expensive speaker system. I know... you don't have a money
tree in your back yard but you don't need to purchase everything at
once. If you are after a quick fix then a all in one system such as the
sony may do you. If you are more serious about the sound quality and
have some patience then this Is what I suggest.


Purchase a new entry level (budget) receiver from any of these
reputable manufacturers :

Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Harman Kardon, Onkyo. There are others but I
would stick with those brands. Cost approx $500

If you don't already have a pair of old speakers to get you going then
you have to make another purchase. I know, more money. You can do this
a couple of ways.

1. purchase a 5.1 satellite and subwoofer kit from a company that
manufactures speakers only. (not Sony) Take your time, shop around and
try to listen to them before you buy.

2. use your existing pair of speakers as rears (surround) and purchase
new speakers for the front of your system .(main left and right, plus a
centre speaker) Bookshelf speakers would do nicely for left and right.
you can always purchase a subwoofer later on down the track when you
can afford it.
With new speakers on your front end, you will have much better sound
where it matters most. Your surround speakers quality is less important
In my opinion, when it comes to movie sound.

PS. the lower the ohms, the harder it is for your amp to drive those
speakers, I think that your amp may be asking for 16ohm speakers as
they will be easier to drive. You can still use a lower ohm speaker but
it may require more power from your amp, so if you don't turn the
volume up too high then you should be right.

Dezza.

[Ext User(Netmask)]

"Gyro" <gyro@nospamplease.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:44dd14fb$0$15987$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Netmask wrote:
>>
>> What brand is the amp - it sounds like an older design? These days most
>> speakers are 8 ohm. Depending on the amp, especially if it is a modern
>> amp connecting 8's won't make any significant difference. Is the amp a 4
>> channel or 5.1?
>
> Hi Netmask,
> The amp is a 4 channel AIWA from a midi 3cd disc/radio/dual cassette hifi
> unit.
>
> My folks bought it, at least 9 years ago maybe more, for a second TV room
> but it was hardly ever used and so now they've given it to me. Even though
> it's old, it has aux/video inputs, optical audio input and surround
> speaker inputs and is made in Japan. It's in mint condition and sounds
> pretty good and has a great remote.
>
> In another usenet group, a poster said i should connect 2 x 8ohm surround
> speakers to each surround output(there are two of them) and connect them
> in series so that the amp still sees 16ohms on each channel.
>
> I was going to go out today to buy 4 good quality 8ohm surround
> satellites.

I read all the other posts and I believe you can safely connect 2 x 8 ohm
speakers to the rear connections - connecting 2 speakers in series is not a
good idea as it can caused frequency response aberrations. But the system
you describe won't blow up or anything like that. For rear speakers for your
application you don't need full bass response - just a set of average
quality bookshelf speakers will work. The fact that the amp has optical
inputs indicates it's a modern design and the output stages are probably
quite stable with a speaker loading from 2 ohms to 22 ohms.

Speaker impedance ( or AC impedance) is an historical figure that goes back
to the early 1930's when most speakers were 32 ohms so as not to cause short
circuits in highly unstable amplifiers of the time. latter becoming 15 or 16
by the late '30's. (15 ohms in the old British Empire and 16 in the US) A
speaker's impedance actually varies over the frequency range so a particular
8 ohm speaker may in-fact only be actually 8 ohms at 1kHz and might be 32 at
12khz etc.

So go out and buy a reasonable set of bookshelfs!!

I

[PCORF]

Hi PCORF,
Okay, i might just try using one good pair of 8 ohm speakers first then.
We never crank up the stereo really high because of our neighbours
anyway. The volume knob never even reaches halfway because there's
plenty of power coming out of it for us.

Which type of speaker do you recommend, surround speakers or bookshelf
speakers for the rear?

Btw, what's the difference between a 16 ohm amplifier and the new 8 ohm
amplifiers? Is less Impedance better?

Using 8 ohm speakers is unlikley to damage the amp. Best to use 2 way Bookshelf Speakers, with the woofer 6.5 inch or below. For music you can get some very big bookshelf speakers with an 8 inch woofer Like Accusound's discontinued DL-825 (an enormus and imposing looking bookshelf speaker that is sure to make people run out of the room) and the smaller and more compact Wharfedale Diamond 9.3, both are avaliable at most HN and are below $600. There are many makes and models of bookshelf speakers out there, but if you want something good you will have to spend over $1000. A good small bookshelf speaker I could reccomend to you would be the Krix brix (www.krix.com.au), a small speaker that sounds quite impressive. But its up to you, you need to listen to a whole lot of speakers and choose yourself which has the ideal sound for you. You can use Floorstanding Speakers if you want to, especially if you want the big bass. My floorstander fronts have 8 inch drivers and they really move alot of air.

I think less rated impedance is better for an amp. If an amp has a rating of 4 or 6 ohms, well you can use 8 ohm speakers with it no problem, as well as nearly all other speakers. It dosen't matter if you chain 4 different speakers per side to an 8 ohm amp to make it 2 ohms, as long as you don't push it too much. Go to this link to see what I mean. (http://www.whatmough.com.au/advice-ampspeakermatching.htm)

[Ext User(Gyro)]

Netmask wrote:

> I read all the other posts and I believe you can safely connect 2 x 8 ohm
> speakers to the rear connections - connecting 2 speakers in series is not a
> good idea as it can caused frequency response aberrations. But the system
> you describe won't blow up or anything like that. For rear speakers for your
> application you don't need full bass response - just a set of average
> quality bookshelf speakers will work. The fact that the amp has optical
> inputs indicates it's a modern design and the output stages are probably
> quite stable with a speaker loading from 2 ohms to 22 ohms.
>
> Speaker impedance ( or AC impedance) is an historical figure that goes back
> to the early 1930's when most speakers were 32 ohms so as not to cause short
> circuits in highly unstable amplifiers of the time. latter becoming 15 or 16
> by the late '30's. (15 ohms in the old British Empire and 16 in the US) A
> speaker's impedance actually varies over the frequency range so a particular
> 8 ohm speaker may in-fact only be actually 8 ohms at 1kHz and might be 32 at
> 12khz etc.
>
> So go out and buy a reasonable set of bookshelfs!!
>

thanks Netmask,
I found this place. http://www.soundadvice.net.au/Bookshelf_Speakers.htm

On Saturday i will be going to listen to these at Sound Advice in the
Perth city.

AARON SS15 BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS $199pr rrp
AARON SS-60 BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS $399pr rrp
KRIX BRIX 4 BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS $399pr rrp

[Ext User(Gyro)]

dezza wrote:
>
> Ok,
>
> If movies are your main interest, then anything less than a modern
> receiver is not going to give you the effect that dvd was designed to
> give.
> They contain a surround processor that will send the different audio
> effects to the correct speakers. IE - The action and explosive sounds
> will be sent to the front mains and the subwooofer. The dialogue will
> be sent to the centre speaker and the surround (background) sounds such
> as crouds cheering, doors closing etc will be sent to the rear
> speakers. Unfortunately your amp is not going to do this for you.
>
> If you want good sound that you will be happy with for a long time then
> you need to do it properly from the start or you will end up chasing
> your tail.
> The sony system you mentioned will give the effect of surround sound
> that I mentioned above but the quality of sound will be low compared
> with a more expensive speaker system. I know... you don't have a money
> tree in your back yard but you don't need to purchase everything at
> once. If you are after a quick fix then a all in one system such as the
> sony may do you. If you are more serious about the sound quality and
> have some patience then this Is what I suggest.
>
>
> Purchase a new entry level (budget) receiver from any of these
> reputable manufacturers :
>
> Yamaha, Marantz, Denon, Harman Kardon, Onkyo. There are others but I
> would stick with those brands. Cost approx $500
>
> If you don't already have a pair of old speakers to get you going then
> you have to make another purchase. I know, more money. You can do this
> a couple of ways.
>
> 1. purchase a 5.1 satellite and subwoofer kit from a company that
> manufactures speakers only. (not Sony) Take your time, shop around and
> try to listen to them before you buy.
>
> 2. use your existing pair of speakers as rears (surround) and purchase
> new speakers for the front of your system .(main left and right, plus a
> centre speaker) Bookshelf speakers would do nicely for left and right.
> you can always purchase a subwoofer later on down the track when you
> can afford it.
> With new speakers on your front end, you will have much better sound
> where it matters most. Your surround speakers quality is less important
> In my opinion, when it comes to movie sound.
>
> PS. the lower the ohms, the harder it is for your amp to drive those
> speakers, I think that your amp may be asking for 16ohm speakers as
> they will be easier to drive. You can still use a lower ohm speaker but
> it may require more power from your amp, so if you don't turn the
> volume up too high then you should be right.
>
> Dezza.
>

Thanks Dezza,
I've talked with the misses and we will take your advice when we buy a
hdtv panel next year. I wouldn't want to be disappointed with a cheaper
compromise in a speaker/receiver package like that Sony HTIAB, so we
will go for quality gear. It will just take us a bit longer to pay it
off. :)

I will be looking at this receiver maybe.
http://www.soundadvice.net.au/RXV659.htm and these speakers, KRIX BRIX
PACK SPEAKER SYSTEM. http://www.soundadvice.net.au/Speaker_Systems.htm

We will also go to Harvey Norman and take a look at the WHARFDALES and
RICHTERS.

For now though, i don't want to spend too much on the AIWA hifi so will
go have a look at these on Saturday.

AARON SS15 BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS $199pr rrp
AARON SS-60 BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS $399pr rrp
KRIX BRIX 4 BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS $399pr rrp

Btw, that's a cool idea to use the existing speakers as the rears and
use the new ones as the two front speakers.
Please let me know if i'm still not on the right track.

cheers.

[Ext User(dezza)]

Gyro,

Yamaha make nice receivers and the model you have chosen should suit
you just fine.
I have a Kenwood, a Denon and a Yamaha receiver. The Yamaha was the
second amp I bought and is my favourite. It lives in the lounge room
and sounds brilliant. Mind you, I have never detected a difference in
sound between the 3 amps, I just have a soft spot for Yamaha's.

I have never heard krix before but many people have a high opinion of
them so i think they are definiately worth a listen. I did listen to
some aaron's once but was not happy with them. That was a few years ago
now and it was a pair of larger floorstanding speakers. Don't let that
put you off though. The package that you mentioned may sound great to
your ears. Good to see you were able to invest some extra cash. It will
be worth it. I have always said that it is important to have good
entertainment in your own home.
That is where you spend much of your time.

When it comes to buying cables, beware of the high priced brands like
Monster.
Copper wire is copper wire and you can purchase the same copper cable
at DickSmiths, Tandy,Jaycar, etc. Sometimes the audio retailer can
throw in the cables for free.
Which cable size to use is very debateable. The internet is full of
arguments on this topic. Personaly I like to use a 12awg or 14awg wire
thickness which is probably a little heavier than necessary but I
prefer a heavier wire, especially for the surround speakers.

Good luck with your listening session, Take some of your favourite cd's
with you. The retailer will be happy to play them for you. It is best
to listen to something you are familiar with. Let us know how you go.


P.S. here is some light reading.

http://www.ecoustics.com/Home/Home_Theater/Home_Theater_Articles/


dezza.