More gas questions (sorry I've seen a few from other ppl lately)

[Ext User(Tsunami)]

My old man went to a Nissan dealer (WA) where he bought his Pathfinder new a
few years ago. They've had all the servicing and so they owe him a bit.
Further the mechanics there are renowed as knowledgeable / good blokes blah
blah, as is the service manager etc (info from a mate who is service
manager at another dealer 200m away)

Anyway, he asked if they would convert his Pathie to gas. Response was an
emphatic "NO ... as the Jap motors are not designed for it and they will get
valve seat problems (recession?) even if running petrol reasonably often".
They said Commodores and Falcons are designed for it as they are taxi and
fleetmobiles, however the general take on Jap cars is that gas is not a
consideration of the designer so they will stuff up on gas.... the operative
word is *long term* though.

Any ideas? I am toying with idea of doing my Mitsi Challenger but prolly
won't have it long enough to realise the benefits even with the subsidy.
Yeah and while I'm at it, ball park figue to add gas to my Challenger?

Cheers

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Tsunami" <tsunam73@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:44e5b029$1@quokka.wn.com.au...

> Any ideas? I am toying with idea of doing my Mitsi Challenger but prolly
> won't have it long enough to realise the benefits even with the subsidy.
> Yeah and while I'm at it, ball park figue to add gas to my Challenger?

The "hysteria" surrounding lpg in recent weeks is fucking ridiculous
ignorance, and bordering on downright offensive.

The *very* short answer here is that *any* engine that was designed to run
on unleaded petrol (and most that weren't) will not only happily run on lpg
without any detrimental effects, but will actually *benefit* from the fuel
in terms of emissions and longevity.

The absolute crap I've heard about lpg by supposed "experts" in the last few
weeks has been absolutely comical, including the fuel being responsible for
causing valve seat recession, burnt valves, cracked heads, overheating
problems, prematurely worn piston rings and cylinders, oil dilution,
knocking, requiring significant additional servicing and some other even
more ludicrous comments.

I'm really surprised that no one mentioned that it was responsible for every
armed conflict in the last 50 years :)

The facts of the matter are that lpg will *not* cause any of these problems
at all. None. Nada, Zip, didly fucking squat.

Why manufacturers (and dealership staff) discourage it's use in their
vehicles I have no idea, other that to suggest that they're loathe to allow
*any* non factory fitted modification done to their vehicles.

Tell your old man to find himself a decent service agent, because his
dealership people don't know dogshit from Muesli, and to find a decent gas
fitter and have the Pathfinder converted. He'll have no problems whatsoever
of the likes that they described, and he'll enjoy the savings.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Clockmeister)]

"Noddy" <dg4163@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:44e5bcea$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "Tsunami" <tsunam73@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:44e5b029$1@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
>> Any ideas? I am toying with idea of doing my Mitsi Challenger but prolly
>> won't have it long enough to realise the benefits even with the subsidy.
>> Yeah and while I'm at it, ball park figue to add gas to my Challenger?
>
> The "hysteria" surrounding lpg in recent weeks is fucking ridiculous
> ignorance, and bordering on downright offensive.
>
> The *very* short answer here is that *any* engine that was designed to run
> on unleaded petrol (and most that weren't) will not only happily run on
> lpg without any detrimental effects, but will actually *benefit* from the
> fuel in terms of emissions and longevity.
>
> The absolute crap I've heard about lpg by supposed "experts" in the last
> few weeks has been absolutely comical, including the fuel being
> responsible for causing valve seat recession, burnt valves, cracked heads,
> overheating problems, prematurely worn piston rings and cylinders, oil
> dilution, knocking, requiring significant additional servicing and some
> other even more ludicrous comments.
>
> I'm really surprised that no one mentioned that it was responsible for
> every armed conflict in the last 50 years :)
>
> The facts of the matter are that lpg will *not* cause any of these
> problems at all. None. Nada, Zip, didly fucking squat.

On the whole I agree, because we fitted LPG to virtually anything and it was
pretty rare for there ever to be a problem even on pre-ULP vehicles.
But then we only ever used quality gear.

> Why manufacturers (and dealership staff) discourage it's use in their
> vehicles I have no idea, other that to suggest that they're loathe to
> allow *any* non factory fitted modification done to their vehicles.

Think warranty chargebacks.

> Tell your old man to find himself a decent service agent, because his
> dealership people don't know dogshit from Muesli, and to find a decent gas
> fitter and have the Pathfinder converted. He'll have no problems
> whatsoever of the likes that they described, and he'll enjoy the savings.
>

Assuming they fit decent quality gear and properly but some of the biggest
fuckwits and ripoff merchants work in the aftermarket LPG fitting industry.
Some of the shit that is used to propel some motor vehicles shouldn't be
used to cook the Sunday arvo BBQ.

Unfortunately these vehicles do have a tendency to end up at the dealers if
under warranty because the installer simply tells the customer that it's not
the gas... you then have to try to convince them otherwise.

[Ext User(Tsunami)]

"Toby Ponsenby" <toby@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:zue1tm481n6b.1f8pl6xhk52ea$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 20:18:47 +0800, Tsunami wrote:
>
> > My old man went to a Nissan dealer (WA) where he bought his Pathfinder
new a
> > few years ago. They've had all the servicing and so they owe him a bit.
> > Further the mechanics there are renowed as knowledgeable / good blokes
blah
> > blah, as is the service manager etc (info from a mate who is service
> > manager at another dealer 200m away)
> >
> > Anyway, he asked if they would convert his Pathie to gas. Response was
an
> > emphatic "NO ... as the Jap motors are not designed for it and they will
get
> > valve seat problems (recession?) even if running petrol reasonably
often".
> > They said Commodores and Falcons are designed for it as they are taxi
and
> > fleetmobiles, however the general take on Jap cars is that gas is not a
> > consideration of the designer so they will stuff up on gas.... the
operative
> > word is *long term* though.
> >
> > Any ideas? I am toying with idea of doing my Mitsi Challenger but prolly
> > won't have it long enough to realise the benefits even with the subsidy.
> > Yeah and while I'm at it, ball park figue to add gas to my Challenger?
> >
> > Cheers
>
>
>
> Think on the way the Japs build engines.
> They take what would (for example) be designed on the board to a 200
> HP Four and de-tune the hell out of it for guess what - about 120HP
> reliability.
> So, the engine gets less radical cam timing, more restrictive exhaust
> and so on. The idea is to get the engines to meet emission standards,
> and last for a reasonable time. part of that is the ability to run
> lean mixtures for extended periods, too - something the Japs have been
> damm good at since the 1930's, BTW.
> So these characters are telling you that valve will plough into the
> head on an engine designed for NIL Tetra-ethyl lead, with pissy little
> valve springs and ultra light-weight valves to reduce reciprocating
> mass?
> They're full of shit.
>
<snip>

bloody good point.

Thanks to all above

buuutttt any idea how much to do the Challenger?

[Ext User(D Walford)]

Noddy wrote:

> Why manufacturers (and dealership staff) discourage it's use in their
> vehicles I have no idea, other that to suggest that they're loathe to allow
> *any* non factory fitted modification done to their vehicles.
>


I test drove a new Camry this morning and my wife asked about LPG, we
were told its not approved by Toyota so they won't install it.
I can't think of any technical reason for not converting to LPG on any
vehicle, IMO the decision to convert is economic rather than technical.



Daryl

[Ext User(Toby Ponsenby)]

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:15:40 +0800, Tsunami wrote:

> "Toby Ponsenby" <toby@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:zue1tm481n6b.1f8pl6xhk52ea$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 20:18:47 +0800, Tsunami wrote:
>>
>>> My old man went to a Nissan dealer (WA) where he bought his Pathfinder
> new a
>>> few years ago. They've had all the servicing and so they owe him a bit.
>>> Further the mechanics there are renowed as knowledgeable / good blokes
> blah
>>> blah, as is the service manager etc (info from a mate who is service
>>> manager at another dealer 200m away)
>>>
>>> Anyway, he asked if they would convert his Pathie to gas. Response was
> an
>>> emphatic "NO ... as the Jap motors are not designed for it and they will
> get
>>> valve seat problems (recession?) even if running petrol reasonably
> often".
>>> They said Commodores and Falcons are designed for it as they are taxi
> and
>>> fleetmobiles, however the general take on Jap cars is that gas is not a
>>> consideration of the designer so they will stuff up on gas.... the
> operative
>>> word is *long term* though.
>>>
>>> Any ideas? I am toying with idea of doing my Mitsi Challenger but prolly
>>> won't have it long enough to realise the benefits even with the subsidy.
>>> Yeah and while I'm at it, ball park figue to add gas to my Challenger?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> Think on the way the Japs build engines.
>> They take what would (for example) be designed on the board to a 200
>> HP Four and de-tune the hell out of it for guess what - about 120HP
>> reliability.
>> So, the engine gets less radical cam timing, more restrictive exhaust
>> and so on. The idea is to get the engines to meet emission standards,
>> and last for a reasonable time. part of that is the ability to run
>> lean mixtures for extended periods, too - something the Japs have been
>> damm good at since the 1930's, BTW.
>> So these characters are telling you that valve will plough into the
>> head on an engine designed for NIL Tetra-ethyl lead, with pissy little
>> valve springs and ultra light-weight valves to reduce reciprocating
>> mass?
>> They're full of shit.
>>
> <snip>
>
> bloody good point.
>
> Thanks to all above
>
> buuutttt any idea how much to do the Challenger?

Expect 4 grand odd for a vapour injection kit. Depends on Cylinder
size/material/placement somewhat, as well.

Times have been quiet in the LPG industry for a few years what with
GovCo (criminally IMHO of course) playing with parity excise for the
stuff, so the RealDeal is all about merciless rip-off now - because
the same thing is going to ruin the industry long-term anyway:-)

--
Toby.
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

[Ext User(the_dawg)]

D Walford wrote:

> I test drove a new Camry this morning and my wife asked about LPG, we
> were told its not approved by Toyota so they won't install it.
> I can't think of any technical reason for not converting to LPG on any
> vehicle, IMO the decision to convert is economic rather than technical.

I get the impression ToyCo are not really into it. Over the
years they have made comments against it's use in various
vehicles.

Hell, I've even got an early 1990s letter personally from ToyCo
Japan no less, suggesting I didn't fit a turbo to me 'lux.

I did. And guess what? still runs like new after 212,000 km :-)

[Ext User(Andy)]

the_dawg wrote:
> D Walford wrote:
>
>
>>I test drove a new Camry this morning and my wife asked about LPG, we
>>were told its not approved by Toyota so they won't install it.
>>I can't think of any technical reason for not converting to LPG on any
>>vehicle, IMO the decision to convert is economic rather than technical.
>
>
> I get the impression ToyCo are not really into it. Over the
> years they have made comments against it's use in various
> vehicles.
>
> Hell, I've even got an early 1990s letter personally from ToyCo
> Japan no less, suggesting I didn't fit a turbo to me 'lux.
>
> I did. And guess what? still runs like new after 212,000 km :-)
>

Yep...I test drove an old (89 or 90 model) Toyota Cressida a month or so
back on LPG. Had done about 275,000 so far, still ran quite nicely.

Cheers,

Andy. (The other Andy.)

[Ext User(D Walford)]

the_dawg wrote:
> D Walford wrote:
>
>> I test drove a new Camry this morning and my wife asked about LPG, we
>> were told its not approved by Toyota so they won't install it.
>> I can't think of any technical reason for not converting to LPG on any
>> vehicle, IMO the decision to convert is economic rather than technical.
>
> I get the impression ToyCo are not really into it. Over the
> years they have made comments against it's use in various
> vehicles.
>
> Hell, I've even got an early 1990s letter personally from ToyCo
> Japan no less, suggesting I didn't fit a turbo to me 'lux.
>
> I did. And guess what? still runs like new after 212,000 km :-)
>
They just don't like any mods at all even if its well known that a mod
won't cause any problems.


Daryl

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"the_dawg" <patrick@hilux.ace.unsw.EDU.AU> wrote in message

> Hell, I've even got an early 1990s letter personally from ToyCo
> Japan no less, suggesting I didn't fit a turbo to me 'lux.
>
> I did. And guess what? still runs like new after 212,000 km :-)

You complete cunt!

You've gone against the express orders of the department of manufacturing,
and the Comrade general commissioner will have your balls on toast. Of
course, we know you're talking shit, as your vehicle would have exploded the
instant you first turned the key after such an unauthorised modification.

Just like they claimed it would :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:44e6a03a$0$510$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-

> They just don't like any mods at all even if its well known that a mod
> won't cause any problems.

My guess is that none of them like anything that's beyond their control, and
wish to avoid costly shitfights down the track.

Still, it makes a mockery of the whole business when some manufacturers are
perfectly happy to have gas kits (and are willing to supply them themselves)
while others go just short of claiming they are the work of the devil.

If some of the claims companies like Toyota are anywhere near true (such as
their engines "not being designed to run on lpg" and that it will cause
damage), then you have to wonder about the quality of their products just
running on regular petrol :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(D Walford)]

Noddy wrote:
> "D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
> news:44e6a03a$0$510$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
>
>> They just don't like any mods at all even if its well known that a mod
>> won't cause any problems.
>
> My guess is that none of them like anything that's beyond their control, and
> wish to avoid costly shitfights down the track.
>
> Still, it makes a mockery of the whole business when some manufacturers are
> perfectly happy to have gas kits (and are willing to supply them themselves)
> while others go just short of claiming they are the work of the devil.
>
> If some of the claims companies like Toyota are anywhere near true (such as
> their engines "not being designed to run on lpg" and that it will cause
> damage), then you have to wonder about the quality of their products just
> running on regular petrol :)

They would look a bit stupid if they said that about their V6 because
they fit LPG to their Avalon taxis and I doubt there are any internal
engine mods.
A neighbor did over 200,000klms on LPG in a V6 Camry (one of the first
"wide bodied ones" without any problems and the RACV had a fleet of LPG
Corolla's a few years ago which AFAIK were trouble free.


Daryl

[Ext User(Clockmeister)]

"the_dawg" <patrick@hilux.ace.unsw.EDU.AU> wrote in message
news:1155962030.406406.124160@i42g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
> D Walford wrote:
>
>> I test drove a new Camry this morning and my wife asked about LPG, we
>> were told its not approved by Toyota so they won't install it.
>> I can't think of any technical reason for not converting to LPG on any
>> vehicle, IMO the decision to convert is economic rather than technical.
>
> I get the impression ToyCo are not really into it. Over the
> years they have made comments against it's use in various
> vehicles.
>
> Hell, I've even got an early 1990s letter personally from ToyCo
> Japan no less, suggesting I didn't fit a turbo to me 'lux.
>
> I did. And guess what? still runs like new after 212,000 km :-)
>

You just voided your warranty :-)

[Unkit]

Noddy wrote:[color=blue]
> "D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message

A neighbor did over 200,000klms on LPG in a V6 Camry (one of the first
"wide bodied ones" without any problems and the RACV had a fleet of LPG
Corolla's a few years ago which AFAIK were trouble free.


Daryl


200 000 klms? Mine has 245 000 on it, no dramas so far, and I have a booking to have it put on gas next month....

(i do 700km roughly a week) - thought it was worth it. Someone else think otherwise?

I'm getting a second hand kit for $2400. Thats $400 out of my pocket, roughly 8 weeks to recover if it all goes well.

Can someone suggest a reason not to have a 94 camry with 250 000ks on it converted to LPG?

[booth]

just to double check...you can convert any engine to lpg or at least have duel fuel? i have a 351 in a 66 f100 and would like to convert it.

cheers
Karl