camber. alignment question

[Ext User(ryan scott)]

im not sure what camber means exactly, but a mate and i had an argument
today:

is it true that car wheels are aligned perfectly so that on a flat road they
travel in a direct str8 line..........

or is it true that they are given a slight lean to the left, to avoid head
on collisions.

or is it true that they are given a slight lean to the right, to allow for
the curved angle of the left side of the road in Aus which provides water
drainage.

[Ext User(JD)]

ryan scott wrote:

> im not sure what camber means exactly, but a mate and i had an argument
> today:
>
> is it true that car wheels are aligned perfectly so that on a flat road
> they travel in a direct str8 line..........
>
> or is it true that they are given a slight lean to the left, to avoid head
> on collisions.
>
> or is it true that they are given a slight lean to the right, to allow for
> the curved angle of the left side of the road in Aus which provides water
> drainage.
It possibly is different for different cars, but any car I've looked at
these specs on (not many) has had no bias either way.
JD

[Ext User(John_H)]

ryan scott wrote:

>im not sure what camber means exactly, but a mate and i had an argument
>today:
>
>is it true that car wheels are aligned perfectly so that on a flat road they
>travel in a direct str8 line..........
>
>or is it true that they are given a slight lean to the left, to avoid head
>on collisions.
>
>or is it true that they are given a slight lean to the right, to allow for
>the curved angle of the left side of the road in Aus which provides water
>drainage.

Some cars have the wheel alignment biased to offset road camber, some
don't... it depends on both the manufacturer's recommendation and the
wheel aligner. Generally a good wheel aligner will use the tolerances
in the alignment settings (wheel camber in particular) to offset
typical road camber.

It's done to prevent uneven tyre wear and has absolutely nothing to do
with avoiding head on collisions.

Road camber also tends to vary in different parts of the country,
depending on the quality of road construction. If, like me, you
mostly travel on secondary roads with little or no camber it's usually
best not to bias the wheel alignment settings.

You can easily check whether your steering is biased or not by letting
go of the steering wheel on a quiet stretch of road and seeing which
way it tracks under its own accord under different camber conditions.
That is whether it tracks true on the crown or the cambered part of
the road.

A car with good alignment should track true for several hundred metres
without correction on a uniform surface.

--
John H

[Ext User(Jason James)]

"John_H" <john4271@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eu9jh2lj7kk3mm7p49bf1d51f80avmhb6b@4ax.com...
> ryan scott wrote:
>
> >im not sure what camber means exactly, but a mate and i had an argument
> >today:
> >
> >is it true that car wheels are aligned perfectly so that on a flat road
they
> >travel in a direct str8 line..........
> >
> >or is it true that they are given a slight lean to the left, to avoid
head
> >on collisions.
> >
> >or is it true that they are given a slight lean to the right, to allow
for
> >the curved angle of the left side of the road in Aus which provides water
> >drainage.
>
> Some cars have the wheel alignment biased to offset road camber, some
> don't... it depends on both the manufacturer's recommendation and the
> wheel aligner. Generally a good wheel aligner will use the tolerances
> in the alignment settings (wheel camber in particular) to offset
> typical road camber.

The particular alignment manual I used to set-up Valiant frontends so they
weren't armbreakingly heavy to park, says that caster is used to offset
road-crown effect. In this way the tire isnot punished so much.

The main considerations were: a car running on a flat surface will pull to
the side with least caster and most +ve camber provided toe is straight.
Some caster removal to counter road-crown effect is applied to the offside
wheel.
For some reason, unassisted Valiant steering seemed to have too much caster
on both wheels, stock.

Jason

[Ext User(John_H)]

Jason James wrote:
>
>"John_H" <john4271@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> Some cars have the wheel alignment biased to offset road camber, some
>> don't... it depends on both the manufacturer's recommendation and the
>> wheel aligner. Generally a good wheel aligner will use the tolerances
>> in the alignment settings (wheel camber in particular) to offset
>> typical road camber.
>
>The particular alignment manual I used to set-up Valiant frontends so they
>weren't armbreakingly heavy to park, says that caster is used to offset
>road-crown effect. In this way the tire isnot punished so much.

IIRC Chrysler''s recommended settings for Valiants were different from
right to left but I can't remember if caster or camber is what varied.
Even worse someone's borrowed my Val manuals and hasn't returned them
as yet.

Normally I wouldn't expect a variation in caster to cause steering
bias, but maybe that's because I always run as much as I can get
(irrespective of the manufacturer's specs). The idea is to prevent
tram tracking on the substandard roads I usually drive on -- the
penalty is heavy steering at low speeds.

With the typically modern McPherson strut setup the choice is between
uniform camber settings or uniform caster, but not both (unless you're
prepared to bend things). I always opt for uniform camber (to avoid
steering bias).

--
John H

[Ext User(^Temuchin^)]

ryan scott wrote:
> im not sure what camber means exactly, but a mate and i had an argument
> today:
>
> is it true that car wheels are aligned perfectly so that on a flat road they
> travel in a direct str8 line..........
>
> or is it true that they are given a slight lean to the left, to avoid head
> on collisions.
>
> or is it true that they are given a slight lean to the right, to allow for
> the curved angle of the left side of the road in Aus which provides water
> drainage.
>
>
>
>

If you want to see camber in action watch a bit of Bathurst a week sunday.

They also show a shot of the front wheel, it is amazing to see how it
goes from a steep angle with only a small amount of tyre on the road to
dead flat with all of the surface of the tyre on the road.

[Ext User(Jason James)]

"John_H" <john4271@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1ffjh291d5s877fem9r579d3tnfu760rnr@4ax.com...
> Jason James wrote:
> >
> >"John_H" <john4271@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>
> >> Some cars have the wheel alignment biased to offset road camber, some
> >> don't... it depends on both the manufacturer's recommendation and the
> >> wheel aligner. Generally a good wheel aligner will use the tolerances
> >> in the alignment settings (wheel camber in particular) to offset
> >> typical road camber.
> >
> >The particular alignment manual I used to set-up Valiant frontends so
they
> >weren't armbreakingly heavy to park, says that caster is used to offset
> >road-crown effect. In this way the tire isnot punished so much.
>
> IIRC Chrysler''s recommended settings for Valiants were different from
> right to left but I can't remember if caster or camber is what varied.
> Even worse someone's borrowed my Val manuals and hasn't returned them
> as yet.
>
> Normally I wouldn't expect a variation in caster to cause steering
> bias, but maybe that's because I always run as much as I can get
> (irrespective of the manufacturer's specs).

Thats right the effect is not linear. Once you get past a certain amount of
castor, you need to reduce one wheel a lot to notice a change.

The manual I was refering to was not model specifice, but taught me how to
adjust castor (wind it off some) to lighten steering at parking, but not too
much to cause wander or tram-lining. Of course if there is wear in the
steering, lightening up the castor will allow that wear to cause havoc with
steering stability.




The idea is to prevent
> tram tracking on the substandard roads I usually drive on -- the
> penalty is heavy steering at low speeds.
>
> With the typically modern McPherson strut setup the choice is between
> uniform camber settings or uniform caster, but not both (unless you're
> prepared to bend things). I always opt for uniform camber (to avoid
> steering bias).

Fair enough. Assume you dont have power-steering?

Jason

[Ext User(Kev)]

ryan scott wrote:

> im not sure what camber means exactly, but a mate and i had an argument
> today:
>
> is it true that car wheels are aligned perfectly so that on a flat road they
> travel in a direct str8 line..........
>
> or is it true that they are given a slight lean to the left, to avoid head
> on collisions.
>
> or is it true that they are given a slight lean to the right, to allow for
> the curved angle of the left side of the road in Aus which provides water
> drainage.
>
>
>
>
last time I had a car aligned the guy asked me what type of roads I
normally travel on, and he then set it up based on that


Kev