LPG for DIEsel, to good to be true?...

[Ext User(mf1@project1221.com中�人民共和国)]

"A system that provides up to 20% more power and torque, provides up to
a 20% reduction in fuel costs, increases range by up to 20%, reduces
engine wear, reduces black plume other emissions"

http://www.dieselgas.com.au

$3900 = GST [And YES, you can claim the $2000 back from HitlerHoward]

Will have to ask the owner of this *wonderful* KiaPregio what his plans
for it are for it.Should do it to claim the $2k

FAQ -

Q/You’ve convinced me, what about my wife?

A/Can’t help you. Maybe point out the dollar savings? Or safer
overtaking (less time on the wrong side of the road)?

GOLD!!

[Ext User(the_dawggie)]

mf1@project1221.comä¸*å�Žäººæ°‘共和国<המוסד למודיעין
ולתפקידי� מיוחדי�PT-141& P2 Member wrote:
> "A system that provides up to 20% more power and torque, provides up to
> a 20% reduction in fuel costs, increases range by up to 20%, reduces
> engine wear, reduces black plume other emissions"

Hmmmmm, I'd wanna get all touchy feelly with it in order to
decide about it. A proper mechanical only turbo diesel setup
works.

Yeah, the LPG is a fuel that will "go along for the ride" just as
petrol will in a diesel engine as long as the cetane rating of the
resulting fuel mix is enough to self ignite.

I've not looked into it, however yup, I'd agree the
quantity of gas would need to be specifically
controlled. You would still need to have enough O2
in there. I'm almost interested in playing around
with LPG fumigation, but just prolly don't get around
to it. LPG is prolly about the _only_ commonly available
fuel I have not yet tried on my diesel engine.

Yup, I can imagine this is a good fuel tax dodge
though, suplementing the diesel with an untaxed
fuel.

[Ext User(Kev)]

the_dawggie wrote:

> mf1@project1221.comä¸*å�Žäººæ°‘共和国<המוסד למודיעין
> ולתפקידי� מיוחדי�PT-141& P2 Member wrote:
>
>>"A system that provides up to 20% more power and torque, provides up to
>>a 20% reduction in fuel costs, increases range by up to 20%, reduces
>>engine wear, reduces black plume other emissions"
>
>
> Hmmmmm, I'd wanna get all touchy feelly with it in order to
> decide about it. A proper mechanical only turbo diesel setup
> works.
>
> Yeah, the LPG is a fuel that will "go along for the ride" just as
> petrol will in a diesel engine as long as the cetane rating of the
> resulting fuel mix is enough to self ignite.
>
> I've not looked into it, however yup, I'd agree the
> quantity of gas would need to be specifically
> controlled. You would still need to have enough O2
> in there. I'm almost interested in playing around
> with LPG fumigation, but just prolly don't get around
> to it. LPG is prolly about the _only_ commonly available
> fuel I have not yet tried on my diesel engine.
>
> Yup, I can imagine this is a good fuel tax dodge
> though, suplementing the diesel with an untaxed
> fuel.
>


I can't see the justification for the cost
$4000 for a small tank, the system would be nothing more than a gas jet
similar to a BBQ with a control module that works off throttle postition

the tank would be much smaller than a normal auto installation due to
the small amout of gas used, 20L would go a long way
and I doubt the 20% cost savings

but it's a good idea
and there is no Govt regulation governing gas on diesel installations


Kev

[Ext User(mark jb)]

You need to look at the power graph.
It's on full torque at ~2000rpm, which then slides right back to stock by
3400rpm.
Power plateaus at ~2900rpm, and drops very sharply directly after power
peak.

Also, redline appears to be 3300rpm according to the graph.

Now, something which drops that much power that fast is an absolute pig to
drive. Been there, done that with a buggered wastegate actuator.
The 400lb/ft drop in torque from 2000rpm to 3300rpm would give you a very
slow driving feeling and pathetic midrange, even if you do have a slight
increase in actual performance.

Are you sure the 20% improvement in economy is not due to the much lower
redline?
Maybe because drivers with the system need to change gears every few seconds
to keep it in the torque peak?

Give me a slightly modified VW 2L turbodiesel anyday. 400Nm, six gears. What
more do you want?

-mark

[Ext User(Roger)]

There's a few companies selling this comversion - for at least the
past 5 years, maybe longer. Welshtec in the USA claim to be the
originator of the idea, whether thats true who knows.

The cost seems horrendous for a box with a venturi and valve tho!

Maybe our gas regs. make all the other bits necessary, but the overseas
versions seem to just have a venturi into the inlet manifold, a control
valve to stop the gas when the engine is off, and another vacuum sensor
to open the venturi when the manifold vaccum drops. Nearly all
mechanical - no whiz bang silicon chips that require programming!!

Leyland Trucks experimented with a very similar system using oxygen
injection instead of an air charge. Maybe time to revisit that concept.

I was warned by one LPG installer that these dual fuel systems were
designed to operate on propane, not Autogas which has a different
burn characteristic and can cause piston crown damage. How true???

Getting 50% increases in HP and torque would be fine as long as the
engine and driveline could cope. Fuel economy would only be improved
if the improved torque was used and not the higher HP.

Anyone know where those 20 litre LPG tanks come from? I could use
one right now on a camper trailer conversion.

[Ext User(JD)]

Roger wrote:

> There's a few companies selling this comversion - for at least the
> past 5 years, maybe longer. Welshtec in the USA claim to be the
> originator of the idea, whether thats true who knows.
>
May be the originator for automotive use, although I doubt it, but I saw a
similar installation on a 1000hp diesel at the power station in Roma over
forty years ago.

> The cost seems horrendous for a box with a venturi and valve tho!

I totally agree.

JD

[Ext User(Athol)]

the_dawggie <the_dawggie@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, the LPG is a fuel that will "go along for the ride" just as
> petrol will in a diesel engine as long as the cetane rating of the
> resulting fuel mix is enough to self ignite.

Just realise that, if it's just added into the inlet manifold, around
50% of the LPG goes along for a ride with the air, straight through
the cylinders and out the exhaust during overlap.

The scavenging that is part of getting nice clean air into a diesel
is the opposite of what is needed for fuel mixed with the intake air.

If you want to add LPG to a diesel, your 2 options are:
1. A zero-overlap camshaft, as commonly used for turbocharged petrol
applications, or
2. Sequential fuel injection, either port injection timed to start
as the exhaust valves close or direct injection of the LPG before the
diesel.

Any other setup will result in high exhaust HC levels, which won't
comply with exhaust emission standards on late model vehicles.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.