HDTV still a joke

[Ext User(Mike)]

While big, bright HDTVs are selling like hot-cakes in the shops,
it has become clear that almost nobody really cares about hi-def
content, even if they can tell the difference.
No wonder the local Imax went broke. And Borat is #1 at the box
office, shot on cheap video cameras.

Some of the local programs shot on HD video, like Totally Wild,
look good, but the serious dramas like Two Twisted, are so grainy
there is no point in the HD transfer.

With HD movies on 9 and 10, sometimes they look visibly better than
DVD (same res as SD), often not.

At ABC, Planet Earth and Bleak House did look good at times, but what
now? Looking at "West Wing", the only thing with sharp detail
was the text in the titles/credits. The actual film was so blurry
it may as well have been up-converted.

Who can blame SBS and 7 for not even trying?

So endeth the rant.

[Ext User(Anthony Horan)]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:28:03 +0800, Mike wrote:

> While big, bright HDTVs are selling like hot-cakes in the shops,
> it has become clear that almost nobody really cares about hi-def
> content, even if they can tell the difference.
> No wonder the local Imax went broke.

Imax isn't about resolution as far as the audience is concerned. It's about
eye-popping size.

> Some of the local programs shot on HD video, like Totally Wild,
> look good, but the serious dramas like Two Twisted, are so grainy
> there is no point in the HD transfer.

The problem with pretty much all Australian dramas shot on film and edited
in HD is, from what I've seen, plain and simple. There is a quality control
failure at one or both of two places:

1. They often shoot on 16mm film instead of 35mm, and

2. The raw telecine transfers of the film are atrocious.

Compare with any of the current film-shot American HD shows to see what I
mean. Flawless high definition telecine of 35mm film shot with a cinematic
eye. Even scaled down to SD resolution the difference is right there
screaming at you.

[Ext User(Wayne Carr)]

"Anthony Horan" <anthonyhoran@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jcs2hgpk158i.qc7zcp5e64hx$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:28:03 +0800, Mike wrote:
>
>> While big, bright HDTVs are selling like hot-cakes in the shops,
>> it has become clear that almost nobody really cares about hi-def
>> content, even if they can tell the difference.
>> No wonder the local Imax went broke.
>
> Imax isn't about resolution as far as the audience is concerned. It's
> about
> eye-popping size.
>
>> Some of the local programs shot on HD video, like Totally Wild,
>> look good, but the serious dramas like Two Twisted, are so grainy
>> there is no point in the HD transfer.
>
> The problem with pretty much all Australian dramas shot on film and edited
> in HD is, from what I've seen, plain and simple. There is a quality
> control
> failure at one or both of two places:
>
> 1. They often shoot on 16mm film instead of 35mm, and
>
> 2. The raw telecine transfers of the film are atrocious.
>
> Compare with any of the current film-shot American HD shows to see what I
> mean. Flawless high definition telecine of 35mm film shot with a cinematic
> eye. Even scaled down to SD resolution the difference is right there
> screaming at you.
>

You think Australian dramas are shot on 16mm? You know nothing.
You think US HD TV is shot on film? You know less than nothing!

[Ext User(Anthony Horan)]

On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 06:00:34 +1100, Wayne Carr wrote:

> You think Australian dramas are shot on 16mm? You know nothing.

Well, some very definitely are. I'm not talking about non-dramas like Home
And Away here.

> You think US HD TV is shot on film? You know less than nothing!

And you just made a fool of yourself. Look in the credits of pretty much
any major current US drama. "Film processing by" and similar credits are
there.

HD video-shot US dramas are rare. One example that comes to mind is The L
Word.

[Ext User(bassett)]

While big, bright HDTVs are selling like hot-cakes in the shops,
it has become clear that almost nobody really cares about hi-def
content, even if they can tell the difference.
No wonder the local Imax went broke. And Borat is #1 at the box office,
shot on cheap video cameras.

Some of the local programs shot on HD video, like Totally Wild,
look good, but the serious dramas like Two Twisted, are so grainy
there is no point in the HD transfer.

With HD movies on 9 and 10, sometimes they look visibly better than DVD
(same res as SD), often not.

Your quite right , of cause, and unfortunatly for "Jo" public the con,
sorry better correst that, The technoligy continues with "Blue-Ray'' which
is even more hi-tech, sharp, colour correct, blah, blah, blah
Then anything else we have seen before, So of cause we must all rush out
and buy a Super High Deaf set, so we don't miss out on the
non-existant Blue-ray DVD's Did we tell you , you will need a $3000
blue ray dvd player.. But the prices will drop real soon , so don't
worry.. Hardly Normal will have them for $2999, intrest free for 6
months, then only at 28% intrest..
Lucky us, I can hardly wait.
bassett

[Ext User(Emjaye)]

Mike said....

> While big, bright HDTVs are selling like hot-cakes in the shops,

Source, please?

Given that the ABS's own data suggests that these hotcakes may be in
fact, cold stale bits of dough, it's difficult to believe what you say.

[Ext User(Mike)]

Emjaye wrote:
> Mike said....
>
>> While big, bright HDTVs are selling like hot-cakes in the shops,
>
> Source, please?

Perhaps I should have said "HD-capable LCD TVs", as most of them will
not have any kind of HD input used. Source is the level of advertising
by retailers, which usually indicates sales. Digital cameras and laptops
seem to still be big sellers too. And mobiles, but thats for the
trailing commissions.

> Given that the ABS's own data suggests that these hotcakes may be in
> fact, cold stale bits of dough, it's difficult to believe what you say.

What ABS figures? LCD TVs, or HD-STBs? Link?

[Ext User(Microbot)]

> Perhaps I should have said "HD-capable LCD TVs", as most of them will
> not have any kind of HD input used. Source is the level of advertising
> by retailers, which usually indicates sales. Digital cameras and laptops
> seem to still be big sellers too. And mobiles, but thats for the trailing
> commissions.

hmmmm I see heaps of things being advertised and all over the place, doesnt
mean they are selling.
Advertising usually means they aren't moving and need the EXTRA push.
I see heaps of adverts for foot massages in our local papers but i dont
think they are massaging too many customers smelly feet... (even though they
advertise it widely)

BTW how can you have HD COMPATIBILTY but have no HD INPUTS???????
(A bit like having a computer that doesnt compute!)

[Ext User(Emjaye)]

Mike said....

> Perhaps I should have said "HD-capable LCD TVs", as most of them will

That's just another term that is confusing. Exactly what you do mean by
"HD-capable"? Like the term "HD ready". It's either a High Definition TV
or it's not. Why confuse the issue with these somewhat meaningless
terms?

>> Given that the ABS's own data suggests that these hotcakes may be in
>> fact, cold stale bits of dough, it's difficult to believe what you say.
>
> What ABS figures? LCD TVs, or HD-STBs? Link?

I'm sure that a Google search will yield results. It's one of the
reasons why Coonan is setting up yet ANOTHER taxpayer bludging public
service department to promote the takeup of digital TV, something that
should be left to the market to do.

[Ext User(Anthony Horan)]

On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 10:11:25 +1100, Emjaye wrote:

> Mike said....
>
>> Perhaps I should have said "HD-capable LCD TVs", as most of them will
>
> That's just another term that is confusing. Exactly what you do mean by
> "HD-capable"? Like the term "HD ready". It's either a High Definition TV
> or it's not. Why confuse the issue with these somewhat meaningless
> terms?

They're not meaningless. "HD Ready" or "Capable" TVs do not have a high
definition digital tuner on board.

[Ext User(Mike)]

Microbot wrote:

> BTW how can you have HD COMPATIBILTY but have no HD INPUTS???????

They do have HD inputs (component, VGA, DVI), I just said they are not
being used. The average buyer is using the built-in analog tuner, and
a DVD player. HD STBs are not selling well.

[Ext User(Emjaye)]

Anthony said....

> They're not meaningless. "HD Ready" or "Capable" TVs do not have a high
> definition digital tuner on board.

I still find it difficult to comprehend that they would market HD TVs
with analog tuners (presumably that is what you're saying).

Perhaps then, the term is appropriate, as long as they state this up
front, so that there is no confusion.

From a consumer's perspective, if a TV is labeled "HD Ready" then you'd
expect to be able to plug it in, turn it on, and let the auto tuner do
its stuff so you can watch HD broadcasts.

I wonder how many SD plasmas out there have been pressed into service
with no STB, stretched pictures, etc.. Certainly, the local boozer where
I have an ale after work have them set up that way. I mention it to the
people who work there who shrug and move on to the next customer...

[Ext User(Anthony Horan)]

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 04:50:53 +1100, Emjaye wrote:

> Anthony said....
>
>> They're not meaningless. "HD Ready" or "Capable" TVs do not have a high
>> definition digital tuner on board.
>
> I still find it difficult to comprehend that they would market HD TVs
> with analog tuners (presumably that is what you're saying).

It is, and I completely agree with you. The fact that Sony, which claims to
be the market leader in LCD TVs, was the *last* major brand to put digital
tuners in its Australian models gives you an idea of what we're up against
in this country. The fact that people fork out thousands for a TV that, out
of the box, can only display an image on its high definition widescreen
panel that has a resolution of 500-odd lines and which leaves the viewer
with black bars down the sides of the image... well, who's to blame? The
manufacturers? Or the wider public that sees nothing wrong with a
widescreen TV that can't receive TV in widescreen...?

> I wonder how many SD plasmas out there have been pressed into service
> with no STB, stretched pictures, etc.. Certainly, the local boozer where
> I have an ale after work have them set up that way.

Every second public LCD or plasma screen I see is displaying a stretched
analogue 4:3 image. It's pure comedy trying to point it out to people; the
majority don't see any issue with everyone looking squat and pudgy. No
wonder Daryl Somers is popular :-)

[Ext User(PHATRS)]

Anthony Horan wrote:

> Every second public LCD or plasma screen I see is displaying a stretched
> analogue 4:3 image. It's pure comedy trying to point it out to people; the
> majority don't see any issue with everyone looking squat and pudgy. No
> wonder Daryl Somers is popular :-)

Absolutely correct. And it baffles me.
>


--
Ben
Car related lyric of the week: "Rollin', in my 5.0, with my ragtop down
so my hair can blow"

[Ext User(Anthony Horan)]

On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:44:52 +1100, fish. wrote:

> I think you're missing the funniest part. HDTV Tuners in Aus TV's are
> pumping out 50hz into a 60hz TV. So EVERYONE not using a correctly
> setup HTPC(tv) is seeing judder.

I can't see how using a "correctly setup HTPC" would make any difference.
The source material is 50Hz regardless.

And anyway, I've never seen "judder" on HD broadcasts...

[Ext User(fish.)]

In article <hzd2d7lb6sb6$.1muqlwgypfaqy$.dlg@40tude.net>,
anthonyhoran@hotmail.com says...
> On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:44:52 +1100, fish. wrote:
>
> > I think you're missing the funniest part. HDTV Tuners in Aus TV's are
> > pumping out 50hz into a 60hz TV. So EVERYONE not using a correctly
> > setup HTPC(tv) is seeing judder.
>
> I can't see how using a "correctly setup HTPC" would make any difference.
> The source material is 50Hz regardless.
>
> And anyway, I've never seen "judder" on HD broadcasts...
>

I'll help you then. Custom res via graphics card forces the TV/Monitor
into whatever Hz you like, which in my case is 50hz, matching the
source.

50hz does not render in 60hz properly, I would have thought you'd known
this.

--
"Once you black, you go deaf"

Family Guy.

[Ext User(Anthony Horan)]

On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:51:06 +1100, fish. wrote:

> In article <hzd2d7lb6sb6$.1muqlwgypfaqy$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> anthonyhoran@hotmail.com says...
>> On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:44:52 +1100, fish. wrote:
>>
>>> I think you're missing the funniest part. HDTV Tuners in Aus TV's are
>>> pumping out 50hz into a 60hz TV. So EVERYONE not using a correctly
>>> setup HTPC(tv) is seeing judder.
>>
>> I can't see how using a "correctly setup HTPC" would make any difference.
>> The source material is 50Hz regardless.
>>
>> And anyway, I've never seen "judder" on HD broadcasts...
>
> I'll help you then. Custom res via graphics card forces the TV/Monitor
> into whatever Hz you like, which in my case is 50hz, matching the
> source.

I'm afraid that's impossible on an LCD display, which refreshes at 60Hz
regardless.

> 50hz does not render in 60hz properly, I would have thought you'd known
> this.

It does so just fine on all the LCD TVs I've seen, not to mention my
Samsung LCD monitor.

[Ext User(fish.)]

In article <qc0a2sabiab1$.55m1wtdv9b1u$.dlg@40tude.net>,
anthonyhoran@hotmail.com says...
> On Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:51:06 +1100, fish. wrote:
>
> > In article <hzd2d7lb6sb6$.1muqlwgypfaqy$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> > anthonyhoran@hotmail.com says...
> >> On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:44:52 +1100, fish. wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think you're missing the funniest part. HDTV Tuners in Aus TV's are
> >>> pumping out 50hz into a 60hz TV. So EVERYONE not using a correctly
> >>> setup HTPC(tv) is seeing judder.
> >>
> >> I can't see how using a "correctly setup HTPC" would make any difference.
> >> The source material is 50Hz regardless.
> >>
> >> And anyway, I've never seen "judder" on HD broadcasts...
> >
> > I'll help you then. Custom res via graphics card forces the TV/Monitor
> > into whatever Hz you like, which in my case is 50hz, matching the
> > source.
>
> I'm afraid that's impossible on an LCD display, which refreshes at 60Hz
> regardless.

Ok, might have to tell Acer that, and perhaps the 10,000 or so other
people who use powerstrip to control the custom refresh rates on their
monitors.


>
> > 50hz does not render in 60hz properly, I would have thought you'd known
> > this.
>
> It does so just fine on all the LCD TVs I've seen, not to mention my
> Samsung LCD monitor.
>

Hmm, ever watched HD from a tuner card in a PC on an LCD TV?



h
--
"Once you black, you go deaf"

Family Guy.

[Ext User(Anthony Horan)]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:19:43 +1100, fish. wrote:

> In article <qc0a2sabiab1$.55m1wtdv9b1u$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> anthonyhoran@hotmail.com says...
>>
>> I'm afraid that's impossible on an LCD display, which refreshes at 60Hz
>> regardless.
>
> Ok, might have to tell Acer that, and perhaps the 10,000 or so other
> people who use powerstrip to control the custom refresh rates on their
> monitors.

Everyone I know that uses Powserstrip uses it to control either the refresh
rates on their *CRT* monitors, or to attain 1:1 pixel mapping on their LCD
TVs via DVI.

>>> 50hz does not render in 60hz properly, I would have thought you'd known
>>> this.
>>
>> It does so just fine on all the LCD TVs I've seen, not to mention my
>> Samsung LCD monitor.
>>
>
> Hmm, ever watched HD from a tuner card in a PC on an LCD TV?

Err, yes. Did so mere hours ago. And it looked perfectly fine.

[Ext User(fish.)]

In article <18xd6pseuq932.1s2fdvwcbns4u.dlg@40tude.net>,
anthonyhoran@hotmail.com says...
> On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:19:43 +1100, fish. wrote:
>
> > In article <qc0a2sabiab1$.55m1wtdv9b1u$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> > anthonyhoran@hotmail.com says...
> >>
> >> I'm afraid that's impossible on an LCD display, which refreshes at 60Hz
> >> regardless.
> >
> > Ok, might have to tell Acer that, and perhaps the 10,000 or so other
> > people who use powerstrip to control the custom refresh rates on their
> > monitors.
>
> Everyone I know that uses Powserstrip uses it to control either the refresh
> rates on their *CRT* monitors, or to attain 1:1 pixel mapping on their LCD
> TVs via DVI.
>

.....and? If everyone you know DOESN'T use PS for custom refresh rates
on their LCD, suddenly it can't be done hey?


> >>> 50hz does not render in 60hz properly, I would have thought you'd known
> >>> this.
> >>


> >> It does so just fine on all the LCD TVs I've seen, not to mention my
> >> Samsung LCD monitor.

> >>
> >
> > Hmm, ever watched HD from a tuner card in a PC on an LCD TV?
>
> Err, yes. Did so mere hours ago. And it looked perfectly fine.
>

I must be wrong then, I spent hours adjusting my TV to match the source,
as did hundreds of others on various Australia forums.

Does scrolling text scroll smoothly?



--
"Once you black, you go deaf"

Family Guy.