Any 1980s Saab 900 owners here? [Archive]

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Ext User(Mark Greenburg)

04-12-2006, 06:53 PM

Looking at purchasing one of these cars soon - looking at a mid-80s model. I
was wondering if anyone in here owns one, and could tell me what to look out
for? Any problems/issues, things like that. Thanks :)

Ext User(Mark Greenburg)

04-12-2006, 07:03 PM

"Dan---" <silver8v92ta@2cyclediesel.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.12.04.07.49.57.825170@2cyclediesel.c om...
> On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 07:50:10 +0000, Mark Greenburg wrote:
>
>> Looking at purchasing one of these cars soon - looking at a mid-80s
>> model. I
>> was wondering if anyone in here owns one, and could tell me what to look
>> out
>> for? Any problems/issues, things like that. Thanks :)
>
> Nope no one here in their right mind would own one really.
> :-)

Heh, understood that nobody would want to admit it publicly. :) But if
anyone does, feel free to e-mail me at mark_greenburg@hotmail.com

Ext User(atec 77)

04-12-2006, 07:03 PM

Ext User(Andy)

04-12-2006, 07:03 PM

Dan--- wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 07:50:10 +0000, Mark Greenburg wrote:
>
>> Looking at purchasing one of these cars soon - looking at a mid-80s model. I
>> was wondering if anyone in here owns one, and could tell me what to look out
>> for? Any problems/issues, things like that. Thanks :)
>
> Nope no one here in their right mind would own one really.
> :-)

Are there any still running and not rusting away at the wreckers?

Ext User(Dan---)

04-12-2006, 07:13 PM

On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 07:50:10 +0000, Mark Greenburg wrote:

> Looking at purchasing one of these cars soon - looking at a mid-80s model. I
> was wondering if anyone in here owns one, and could tell me what to look out
> for? Any problems/issues, things like that. Thanks :)

Nope no one here in their right mind would own one really.
:-)

But check out here.
http://www.saabclub.org.au/

--
Regards
Dan

Ext User(Noddy)

04-12-2006, 10:43 PM

"Mark Greenburg" <mark_greenburg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SqQch.2337$HU.1621@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Looking at purchasing one of these cars soon - looking at a mid-80s model.
> I was wondering if anyone in here owns one, and could tell me what to look
> out for? Any problems/issues, things like that. Thanks :)

My advice, for what it's worth, would be to stay *well* away from any Saab
unless you actually enjoy spending your week-ends sinking your spare time
and cash into your car.

They are only *marginally* better than old Alfa's....

--
Regards,
Noddy.

Ext User(Marco)

05-12-2006, 08:13 AM

Mark Greenburg wrote:
> Looking at purchasing one of these cars soon - looking at a mid-80s model. I
> was wondering if anyone in here owns one, and could tell me what to look out
> for? Any problems/issues, things like that. Thanks :)

Of all the money pits in the world that you could pour most of your
income into, your disaster of choice is a 1980s Saab?

As others have said...avoid.

Marco

Ext User(Kev)

05-12-2006, 01:43 PM

Ext User(Patrick)

05-12-2006, 03:33 PM

Mark Greenburg wrote:
> Looking at purchasing one of these cars soon - looking at a mid-80s model. I
> was wondering if anyone in here owns one, and could tell me what to look out
> for? Any problems/issues, things like that. Thanks :)
>
>
SAABs, even new ones, are trying very hard to be the next Jaguar. Every
single SAAB owner I've ever spoken to (and I've spoken to a lot, the
cars interested me for a while) said the same thing:

"Oh it was really nice. It drove very well, but the
gearbox/engine/electrics needed replacing 3 times at $5000 each."

Maybe you should treat them like an old Jag? Get one with a stuffed
engine for nearly free and put in mechanicals from another car. How
about a Camry or Maxima V6 engine and gearbox in a SAAB 9000 body? Best
of both worlds.

Ext User(ShazWozza)

05-12-2006, 04:24 PM

Patrick wrote:

>>
> SAABs, even new ones, are trying very hard to be the next Jaguar. Every
> single SAAB owner I've ever spoken to (and I've spoken to a lot, the
> cars interested me for a while) said the same thing:
>
> "Oh it was really nice. It drove very well, but the
> gearbox/engine/electrics needed replacing 3 times at $5000 each."

Crap. The 4 cylinder engines are very robust. The 4 cylinder engine blocks
can cope with producing up to 300HP without drama. They last as long as Jap
engines. Manual gearboxes in the 80s 900s don't like being trashed, the
ones in 9000s are stronger. The automatic gearboxes are shit and only a
faggot would want to drive one of them. The electrics are OK, not as bad as
same-era Volvo electrics with the bio degradable plastic insulation.

> Maybe you should treat them like an old Jag? Get one with a stuffed
> engine for nearly free and put in mechanicals from another car. How
> about a Camry or Maxima V6 engine and gearbox in a SAAB 9000 body? Best
> of both worlds.

Not nearly as good a package as the 165Kw 2.3 litre Saab engine with 350NM
from 2000RPM. The only unreliability issue with them is that their direct
ignition modules can fry themselves in less than 100,000km of use.

The lower hydraulic engine mounts and upper torque reaction bushes are
probably the most troublesome thing with the turbo 9000s. They take a
thrashing and can wear out fast. It is not a difficult job to replace them
for a home mechanic though.

The only really nasty expense is if you overheat the engine and damage the
head, then you might be looking at $1.5k to $2.0k.

The GM Saabs introduced a whole raft of V6 engine and electrical problems
but then they aren't real Saabs.

Ext User(Noddy)

05-12-2006, 08:03 PM

"ShazWozza" <shaz_wozza@elementspring.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$g0cs9j$z691

> The GM Saabs introduced a whole raft of V6 engine and electrical problems
> but then they aren't real Saabs.

Thankfully :)

You're probably the *only* person I've ever heard say anything positive
about Saabs in my life. Most people think they're an absolute *cunt* of a
car, and there's generally a very good reason for that.

Because they are.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

Ext User(Richard Sherratt)

06-12-2006, 11:03 AM

On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 08:53:24 GMT, "Noddy" <dg4163@(nospam)dodo.com.au>
wrote:

>
>"ShazWozza" <shaz_wozza@elementspring.com> wrote in message
>news:newscache$g0cs9j$z691
>
>> The GM Saabs introduced a whole raft of V6 engine and electrical problems
>> but then they aren't real Saabs.
>
>Thankfully :)
>
>You're probably the *only* person I've ever heard say anything positive
>about Saabs in my life. Most people think they're an absolute *cunt* of a
>car, and there's generally a very good reason for that.

Most people are stupid.

>Because they are.

Crap. Very reliable, long lasting, comfortable, safe cars.

They can get expensive to fix if you drive them around with no oil or
coolant in them. But hey, stupid people do stupid things and they pass
on their stupid opinions to people who are stupid enough to listen to
them.

If you want real data, have a look at the reliability surveys from the
USA. A far larger market and very picky people. They're the ones, BTW,
who rate Benz more or less on a par with Lada and Trabant.
--
Regards.
Richard.

Ext User(Patrick)

06-12-2006, 11:43 AM

Richard Sherratt wrote:
> On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 08:53:24 GMT, "Noddy" <dg4163@(nospam)dodo.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> "ShazWozza" <shaz_wozza@elementspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:newscache$g0cs9j$z691
>>
>>> The GM Saabs introduced a whole raft of V6 engine and electrical problems
>>> but then they aren't real Saabs.
>> Thankfully :)
>>
>> You're probably the *only* person I've ever heard say anything positive
>> about Saabs in my life. Most people think they're an absolute *cunt* of a
>> car, and there's generally a very good reason for that.
>
> Most people are stupid.
>
>> Because they are.
>
> Crap. Very reliable, long lasting, comfortable, safe cars.

I'll go with the last two adjectives above. But honestly, EVERY SINGLE
saab owner I've spoken to bitched about them needing expensive repairs.
Now maybe they didn't have a manual 9000/9-5 series, which Shazwozza
says is the reliable one... but that means most SAABs are the unreliable
kind.

>
> They can get expensive to fix if you drive them around with no oil or
> coolant in them. But hey, stupid people do stupid things and they pass
> on their stupid opinions to people who are stupid enough to listen to
> them.
>
> If you want real data, have a look at the reliability surveys from the
> USA. A far larger market and very picky people. They're the ones, BTW,
> who rate Benz more or less on a par with Lada and Trabant.

The Americans also say that the SAABs handle great. Which is strange as
the Europeans and Australians said the opposite. Then I realized the
Yanks were comparing them to Chevys and F150s.

Mind you, most people reckon the old Mazda MX6 turbos had dangerous
torquesteer too. Which is absolutely true if you test drive one. But if
you OWN one, after a couple of weeks you compensate and never notice it
again. So I'm prepared to accept that the SAABS might have good handling
once you get used to a powerful FWD.

Ext User(Patrick)

06-12-2006, 11:53 AM

ShazWozza wrote:
> Patrick wrote:
>
>> SAABs, even new ones, are trying very hard to be the next Jaguar. Every
>> single SAAB owner I've ever spoken to (and I've spoken to a lot, the
>> cars interested me for a while) said the same thing:
>>
>> "Oh it was really nice. It drove very well, but the
>> gearbox/engine/electrics needed replacing 3 times at $5000 each."
>
> Crap. The 4 cylinder engines are very robust. The 4 cylinder engine blocks
> can cope with producing up to 300HP without drama. They last as long as Jap
> engines. Manual gearboxes in the 80s 900s don't like being trashed, the
> ones in 9000s are stronger. The automatic gearboxes are shit and only a
> faggot would want to drive one of them. The electrics are OK, not as bad as
> same-era Volvo electrics with the bio degradable plastic insulation.

So when you say "crap" what you mean is that "Yes,the auto 4cyl, the
manual V6, and the auto V6, and all the 900s are likely to be
unreliable, but if they got a manual 4cyl 9000 then it would be OK"?

Isn't that kind of agreeing that most SAABS are unreliable?

Which is kind of sad, because as I stated above, they have a lot going
for them. SAABs are just about the only mainstream car maker that made
anything different.

If you wanted a luxury Euro car that could carry a load of luggage, and
you didn't want a great big wagon, you needed a SAAB.

They are still just about the only Lux car that uses a turbo to give big
fat torque with low fuel usage.

And because of their atrocious depreciation, you can get a nice one for
much, much less than even the volvo equivalent, let alone an Audi or
something.

I'd even be interested in a Viggen or something, but being front wheel
drive it wouldn't have the grip.

>
>> Maybe you should treat them like an old Jag? Get one with a stuffed
>> engine for nearly free and put in mechanicals from another car. How
>> about a Camry or Maxima V6 engine and gearbox in a SAAB 9000 body? Best
>> of both worlds.
>
> Not nearly as good a package as the 165Kw 2.3 litre Saab engine with 350NM
> from 2000RPM. The only unreliability issue with them is that their direct
> ignition modules can fry themselves in less than 100,000km of use.
>
> The lower hydraulic engine mounts and upper torque reaction bushes are
> probably the most troublesome thing with the turbo 9000s. They take a
> thrashing and can wear out fast. It is not a difficult job to replace them
> for a home mechanic though.
>
> The only really nasty expense is if you overheat the engine and damage the
> head, then you might be looking at $1.5k to $2.0k.
>
> The GM Saabs introduced a whole raft of V6 engine and electrical problems
> but then they aren't real Saabs.
>
>
>
>
>

Ext User(Noddy)

06-12-2006, 12:13 PM

"Richard Sherratt" <richard.sherratt@NOTHINGHEREbrunsley.com.au> wrote in
message

> Crap. Very reliable, long lasting, comfortable, safe cars.

People say the same things about Jaguars and Alfa's too.

> They can get expensive to fix if you drive them around with no oil or
> coolant in them. But hey, stupid people do stupid things and they pass
> on their stupid opinions to people who are stupid enough to listen to
> them.

Including the ones who claim crap cars are good.

> If you want real data, have a look at the reliability surveys from the
> USA. A far larger market and very picky people. They're the ones, BTW,
> who rate Benz more or less on a par with Lada and Trabant.

Yeah, but what the fuck would most Americans know? :)

I think most Benz's are pretty over-rated cars, but they're not *quite* in
the same league as your average Lada yet :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.

Ext User(Andy)

06-12-2006, 10:23 PM

Ext User(Patrick)

07-12-2006, 02:23 PM

Richard Sherratt wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 09:48:01 +1100, Patrick <doctorpat@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Richard Sherratt wrote:
>>> On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 08:53:24 GMT, "Noddy" <dg4163@(nospam)dodo.com.au>
> <snip>
>
>>> Crap. Very reliable, long lasting, comfortable, safe cars.
>> I'll go with the last two adjectives above. But honestly, EVERY SINGLE
>> saab owner I've spoken to bitched about them needing expensive repairs.
>> Now maybe they didn't have a manual 9000/9-5 series, which Shazwozza
>> says is the reliable one... but that means most SAABs are the unreliable
>> kind.
>

First of all, I'd like to thank you for putting so much effort into the
reply.

> Nearly all the Saab owners I meet are very positive about them. The
> exception is a guy I've known for about 30 years. When I first met
> him, he was driving a 308? XA. The smaller of the V8 engines. He used
> to tow his boat (very light weight A-Class catamaran) at around 135
> km/h. (I towed the same class of boat behind a Mazda Rx3 at the same
> speed and didn't blow anything.) I noticed he had wire poking out from
> the side of his bald tyres one day. On the way from Melbourne to
> Sydney for the World titles, he blew his engine in Wodonga. No water.
> He had a few problems with his 1987 (or thereabouts) 900 turbo. It was
> a demonstrator and he grew to think it was a lemon. He abused it. He
> let his Malemute eat the seats.
>

Yeah some people couldn't look after a rock.

> There was a problem with gearboxes in the turbos. They didn't like
> towing heavy loads. Too much torque.
>

So that rules out upping the boost a lot then?

> There was a problem with the heater taps of the mid 80s Saabs. They
> could leak coolant all over the passenger side floor.
>
> There might have been problems with automatic gearboxes. I wouldn't
> know. Automatics are for hairdressers and girlies. <vbg> <darfc>
>

It may well be that every SAAB owner I've spoken to had an auto.

> My experience of driving Saab 900 turbos for nearly the last 20 years
> has been good. I've driven non-turbo 900s and they are not as lively.
> Adequate performance, but not the sparkle.

Well any car without a turbo has THAT problem.

>
> I bought a 1984 900T5M (that's Saab code for 900 turbo 5 door manual)
> in 1988 and drove it until 1999. I had to replace the turbo (rebuild
> exchange around $800 fitted) at 242,000 km. I needed a replacement
> steering rack (around $750 for a rebuilt, improved version) and a
> heater tap (couple of hundred). Apart from that, normal servicing. I
> did about 165,000 in the car.
>
> My current car is a 1989 900 Aero. It cost me $15,000 in 1999. The
> only major problem I've had was a broken gearbox shaft. It left me
> with only first and second. The shaft snapped with what looked like
> brittle fatigue failure at an oil hole (didn't get it analysed, but it
> had all the characteristics). Looked like the shaft got overheated
> while the hole was being drilled. Saab service records said this was
> the first one. I had to replace the turbo at about 240,000 but hey,
> that's better than the Japanese turbos that had to be replaced every
> 5,000 :-) Maybe it should be included in the service schedule.
> "Replace turbo at 240,000."
>

My nissan turbo was going strong at 275 000 and that was running 12 psi
more than stock. I miss it.

> I drove up to Surfers from Melbourne last Christmas via the Newell
> Hwy. No problems in the >40C temps around Dubbo. And I wasn't driving
> slowly :-) The car's only done 255,000 km.
>
> I had a problem with the heater tap in Narrabri on the way back. One
> of the two spout/flange thingies on the engine side of the firewall
> snapped (they replaced brass heater taps with plastic ones). It was
> easy enough to use one of the two hoses to bypass the heater tap and
> feed the coolant back to the engine. No problems later that day at 46C
> in Dubbo. I was still able to blow away an XR6 in the "who can
> overtake the slow car faster" duel. I didn't realise it was a duel
> until this guy from behind started to flash his lights as I pulled out
> to overtake. Left him for dead :-)
>
>>> If you want real data, have a look at the reliability surveys from the
>>> USA. A far larger market and very picky people. They're the ones, BTW,
>>> who rate Benz more or less on a par with Lada and Trabant.
>> The Americans also say that the SAABs handle great. Which is strange as
>> the Europeans and Australians said the opposite. Then I realized the
>> Yanks were comparing them to Chevys and F150s.
>
> Not entirely. They do actually make some cars that can handle. A few.
> And they drive a lot of European cars.

No you misunderstand. These guys were explicitly saying that it handles
well and comparing them to Chevys and SUVs. I wasn't assuming it.

The main difference is that
> they haven't read the Australian and British motoring journalist
> manual where it explains that front wheel drive cars can't handle. You
> must have seen the comments along the lines of "It's front wheel drive
> therefore it understeers." or "The rear wheel drive gives it much
> better handling." Which basically can be translated into "I'm an
> ignorant fool and I don't know what I'm talking about, but I read this
> somewhere and it will sound like I know something." or "I don't know
> how to drive a front-wheel drive car".

The only problem I have with FWD is that I just can't take off quickly
without risking wheelspin. Especially up hill. Going from my ES300 to my
BMW 530 it is something that really stands out. In most respects they go
the same, but from a standing start you have to baby the ES300 or you
loose traction. (The steering is another matter, BMW is miles ahead.)

>
>> Mind you, most people reckon the old Mazda MX6 turbos had dangerous
>> torquesteer too. Which is absolutely true if you test drive one. But if
>> you OWN one, after a couple of weeks you compensate and never notice it
>> again. So I'm prepared to accept that the SAABS might have good handling
>> once you get used to a powerful FWD.
>
> That's basically what it's about. Remember the Minis that won at
> Bathurst? 1275 cc front-wheel drive vs V8 RWD Frods and Holdens. It
> couldn't be the handling that let the minis win. It had to be the
> massive power the 1275 cc engines developed :-)
>
> Jeremy Clarkson wrote a review of the latest 9-3 Aero recently. He
> referred back to the late 1980s Aeros. He's using mph, so 40 = 60 and
> 70 = 112. "There have been some mistakes along the way. In the
> Eighties, for instance, your Saab would get from 40 to 70 faster than
> a Ferrari Testarossa, but so bad was the torque steer when that
> mountain of torque hit the front wheels, you had no real say where
> you’d be when 70 was achieved." He uses hyperbole, of course, to make
> a point, but he's not far off the mark. It's not faster than a
> Testarossa. But it is faster than a 911s of the same vintage in that
> speed range. And the torque steer is great when you learn how to use
> it :-)
>
> So a few problems, but a lot of car for the money.
>

Ext User(Richard Sherratt)

08-12-2006, 09:53 PM

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:11:13 +1100, Patrick <doctorpat@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>Richard Sherratt wrote:
<snip>

>First of all, I'd like to thank you for putting so much effort into the
>reply.

No worries.

>> There was a problem with gearboxes in the turbos. They didn't like
>> towing heavy loads. Too much torque.

>So that rules out upping the boost a lot then?

Depends on the year, I think. ISTR that the more serious problems were
fixed some time during the 80s.

There's a lot more info available in the archives of alt.autos.saab.
Try a google advanced group search and see what it yields.

Other links are:

http://www.saabclub.org.au/
http://www.saabnet.com/
http://www.saabclub.co.uk/
http://www.abbottracing.com/

<snip>

>My nissan turbo was going strong at 275 000 and that was running 12 psi
>more than stock. I miss it.

That _is_ good going. I heard od Japanese turbos only lasting for
aboyt 5,000 km. Cordias, I think. Might have been Exas.

<snip>

>No you misunderstand. These guys were explicitly saying that it handles
>well and comparing them to Chevys and SUVs. I wasn't assuming it.

Ah well. Strange comparison.

<snip>

>The only problem I have with FWD is that I just can't take off quickly
>without risking wheelspin. Especially up hill. Going from my ES300 to my
>BMW 530 it is something that really stands out. In most respects they go
>the same, but from a standing start you have to baby the ES300 or you
>loose traction. (The steering is another matter, BMW is miles ahead.)

Yeah. Uphill starts can be noisy. Mind you, driving in snow and ice is
easier than RWD. Abbott racing in the UK has some suspension mods for
some models that improve handling. The last I heard, Swedish Prestige
in Melbourne was an agent.

I haven't driven a BMW recently. Um. It's about 15 years. Time flies
when you're getting older.

One comparison I do remember is when I had a VN S-pack with the FE2
suspension that was supposed to improve the handling. The Commodore
was new and my Saab at the time had done about 100,000km. The
Commodore steering felt very sloppy and the suspension setup seemed
sloppy and rock hard at the same time.

I'm trying to remember the name of a Saab mechanic who used to run a
mobile service business from the back of a 3 cyl - 2 stroke Saab wagon
(very old). He was into making older model Saabs go faster. If you're
interested, I can find his name.

Time to cook dinner.

Regards,
Richard.
--
Regards.
Richard.

Ext User(Patrick)

08-12-2006, 10:33 PM

Richard Sherratt wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:11:13 +1100, Patrick <doctorpat@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Richard Sherratt wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> First of all, I'd like to thank you for putting so much effort into the
>> reply.
>
> No worries.
>
>>> There was a problem with gearboxes in the turbos. They didn't like
>>> towing heavy loads. Too much torque.
>
>> So that rules out upping the boost a lot then?
>
> Depends on the year, I think. ISTR that the more serious problems were
> fixed some time during the 80s.
>
> There's a lot more info available in the archives of alt.autos.saab.
> Try a google advanced group search and see what it yields.
>
> Other links are:
>
> http://www.saabclub.org.au/
> http://www.saabnet.com/
> http://www.saabclub.co.uk/
> http://www.abbottracing.com/

I'll check them out

>
>
> <snip>
>
>> My nissan turbo was going strong at 275 000 and that was running 12 psi
>> more than stock. I miss it.
>
> That _is_ good going. I heard od Japanese turbos only lasting for
> aboyt 5,000 km. Cordias, I think. Might have been Exas.

Ah! The early model cordias and exas (and a couple of others) had oil
cooled turbos. Which is a fancy way of saying "no water cooling". This
means they need very special care otherwise they cook themselves when
turned off.

All those stories of idling a turbo for 5 minutes after you drive it? It
helps any turbo, but is vital for an oil cooled one.

For someone with a turbo 911, obviously also oil cooled, this doesn't
seem to be a problem. But with a cheap Jap car, with cheap jap
maintenance and low budget owners: it dies very soon.

>
> <snip>
SNIP
>
> <snip>
>
>> The only problem I have with FWD is that I just can't take off quickly
>> without risking wheelspin. Especially up hill. Going from my ES300 to my
>> BMW 530 it is something that really stands out. In most respects they go
>> the same, but from a standing start you have to baby the ES300 or you
>> loose traction. (The steering is another matter, BMW is miles ahead.)
>
> Yeah. Uphill starts can be noisy. Mind you, driving in snow and ice is
> easier than RWD. Abbott racing in the UK has some suspension mods for
> some models that improve handling. The last I heard, Swedish Prestige
> in Melbourne was an agent.
>
> I haven't driven a BMW recently. Um. It's about 15 years. Time flies
> when you're getting older.

Comparing a 2002 530i with a 1985 325E.... there is something about
them, some common trait in the feel of the steering and suspension. A
good thing.

>
> One comparison I do remember is when I had a VN S-pack with the FE2
> suspension that was supposed to improve the handling. The Commodore
> was new and my Saab at the time had done about 100,000km. The
> Commodore steering felt very sloppy and the suspension setup seemed
> sloppy and rock hard at the same time.
>
> I'm trying to remember the name of a Saab mechanic who used to run a
> mobile service business from the back of a 3 cyl - 2 stroke Saab wagon
> (very old). He was into making older model Saabs go faster. If you're
> interested, I can find his name.
>

Well I have to sell my (wife's) ES300 before I can get something
interesting. It's listed, I'm just waiting for phonecalls.