The Driver Lived!

[Ext User(tipsy@beerlover.com)]

This prang happened not far from my place in N/W Sydney last Monday in a 90 kph zone. The 17 year
old driver will possibly get out of hospital next week. He suffered a broken eye socket, broken
ribs, broken shoulder blade and crushed vertebrae.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4194/driverlived0hg.jpg

[Ext User(Mot Adv-NSW)]

<tipsy@beerlover.com> wrote in message
news:sl4jr2pfjbrbmuuke4acbp436c76msoiok@4ax.com...
> This prang happened not far from my place in N/W Sydney last Monday in a
> 90 kph zone. The 17 year
> old driver will possibly get out of hospital next week. He suffered a
> broken eye socket, broken
> ribs, broken shoulder blade and crushed vertebrae.

Can't say the same for a Falcon driver, stopped on the F3 Minmi region this
Australia Day 2007 in the left shoulder.
He was collected by a truck whilst changing a tyre.

Advocacy; use a warning triangle.

JP

[Ext User(Albm&ctd)]

In article <12rjmm4m2km91b0@corp.supernews.com>, mot.adv@internode.on.net
says...
>
> <tipsy@beerlover.com> wrote in message
> news:sl4jr2pfjbrbmuuke4acbp436c76msoiok@4ax.com...
> > This prang happened not far from my place in N/W Sydney last Monday in a
> > 90 kph zone. The 17 year
> > old driver will possibly get out of hospital next week. He suffered a
> > broken eye socket, broken
> > ribs, broken shoulder blade and crushed vertebrae.
>
> Can't say the same for a Falcon driver, stopped on the F3 Minmi region this
> Australia Day 2007 in the left shoulder.
> He was collected by a truck whilst changing a tyre.
>
Freeways tend to suck if you break down.

Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Mot Adv-NSW" <mot.adv@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:12rjmm4m2km91b0@corp.supernews.com...

> Can't say the same for a Falcon driver, stopped on the F3 Minmi region
> this Australia Day 2007 in the left shoulder.
> He was collected by a truck whilst changing a tyre.
>
> Advocacy; use a warning triangle.

And get the fuck off the road.

If the truck driver couldn't see a *car* with some guy working on it, he'd
have no hope in hell of seeing a pissy little triangle.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Clockmeister)]

"Noddy" <dg4163@(nospam)dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:45b9ee10$1@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "Mot Adv-NSW" <mot.adv@internode.on.net> wrote in message
> news:12rjmm4m2km91b0@corp.supernews.com...
>
>> Can't say the same for a Falcon driver, stopped on the F3 Minmi region
>> this Australia Day 2007 in the left shoulder.
>> He was collected by a truck whilst changing a tyre.
>>
>> Advocacy; use a warning triangle.
>
> And get the fuck off the road.
>
> If the truck driver couldn't see a *car* with some guy working on it, he'd
> have no hope in hell of seeing a pissy little triangle.
>

I reckon so.

[Ext User(Athol)]

Mot Adv-NSW <mot.adv@internode.on.net> wrote:

> Can't say the same for a Falcon driver, stopped on the F3 Minmi region this
> Australia Day 2007 in the left shoulder.
> He was collected by a truck whilst changing a tyre.

> Advocacy; use a warning triangle.

Minmi. Northbound or Southbound?

In both directions, there are guardrail-protected breakdown bays with NRMA
emergency phones. While one would obviously not bother ringing "no real
mechanic available", these breakdown bays provide a higher degree of safety
for such things as wheel changing than the shoulder.

On the southbound side, you've also got the large pad on the left where the
freeway used to end and deviate off onto the local road. If all else fails,
there is the option of taking the Newcastle link road exit, parking on the
corner of the Minmi Rd roundabout, then doing a u-turn on the roundabout to
get back onto the freeway.

Heading northbound, there's the driver reviver location and a servo at the
end of the freeway. That's literally only a couple of km up the road...

If the driver had parked in one of the existing, available locations to do
the tyre change, he would have been well enough protected by roadside
hardware to not need the triangle!

Then again, I'd rather sacrifice a tyre for the sake of my own safety...

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Ext User(the_dawggie)]

On Jan 27, 8:30 am, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> If the driver had parked in one of the existing, available locations to do
> the tyre change, he would have been well enough protected by roadside
> hardware to not need the triangle!

Agree this is a better option. Country roads you can usually get off to
the road side far enough.

> Then again, I'd rather sacrifice a tyre for the sake of my own safety...

The time I really didn't like was coming on to the Warringah
Expressway,
parked up on the median with my arse literally waiting to be collected
by
oncoming traffic while changing a tyre .... I got meself a warning
triangle
after that - thankfully not that I've needed to use it yet.

[Ext User(Falkon)]

Noddy wrote:
> "Mot Adv-NSW" <mot.adv@internode.on.net> wrote in message
> news:12rjmm4m2km91b0@corp.supernews.com...
>
>> Can't say the same for a Falcon driver, stopped on the F3 Minmi region
>> this Australia Day 2007 in the left shoulder.
>> He was collected by a truck whilst changing a tyre.
>>
>> Advocacy; use a warning triangle.
>
> And get the fuck off the road.
>
> If the truck driver couldn't see a *car* with some guy working on it, he'd
> have no hope in hell of seeing a pissy little triangle.

It amazes me how so many drivers think a flat tyre is the same as all
four wheels falling off.

[Ext User(John_H)]

the_dawggie wrote:
>
>The time I really didn't like was coming on to the Warringah
>Expressway,
>parked up on the median with my arse literally waiting to be collected
>by
>oncoming traffic while changing a tyre .... I got meself a warning
>triangle
>after that - thankfully not that I've needed to use it yet.

Think you'll find an old piece of hardwood under the base of the jack
would work just as well... and probably a lot cheaper. ;-)

--
John H

[Ext User(Falkon)]

the_dawggie wrote:
>
> On Jan 27, 8:30 am, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> If the driver had parked in one of the existing, available locations to do
>> the tyre change, he would have been well enough protected by roadside
>> hardware to not need the triangle!
>
> Agree this is a better option. Country roads you can usually get off to
> the road side far enough.
>
>> Then again, I'd rather sacrifice a tyre for the sake of my own safety...
>
> The time I really didn't like was coming on to the Warringah
> Expressway,
> parked up on the median with my arse literally waiting to be collected
> by
> oncoming traffic while changing a tyre .... I got meself a warning
> triangle
> after that - thankfully not that I've needed to use it yet.

Why didn't you keep driving until you could stop somewhere safe??

[Ext User(the_dawggie)]

On Jan 27, 1:51 pm, Falkon <fal...@noname.com.au> wrote:
> the_dawggie wrote:
>
> > On Jan 27, 8:30 am, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> >> If the driver had parked in one of the existing, available locations to do
> >> the tyre change, he would have been well enough protected by roadside
> >> hardware to not need the triangle!
>
> > Agree this is a better option. Country roads you can usually get off to
> > the road side far enough.
>
> >> Then again, I'd rather sacrifice a tyre for the sake of my own safety...
>
> > The time I really didn't like was coming on to the Warringah
> > Expressway,
> > parked up on the median with my arse literally waiting to be collected
> > by
> > oncoming traffic while changing a tyre .... I got meself a warning
> > triangle
> > after that - thankfully not that I've needed to use it yet.

> Why didn't you keep driving until you could stop somewhere safe??

Nope, on the approach to the tunnel just as turning left off the shite
that is Military road, I'm not gunna accelerate to merge right with
other
traffic with a fecked tyre (I didn't think that a healthy idea at the
time).

I've actually become quite paranoid about tyre (or tube) failures
in my old age - I've had in the past rear tyre blowouts at 100 km
plus (and had to park alongside stinky rotting 'roo to change) while
driving to Orange.

A front tyre failure, while I have a fully loaded pickup truck,
going round a downhill bend at 100 kph. No I've not experienced
that, don't wanna, and the concept messes with my mind. Big
time.

[Ext User(Mot Adv-NSW)]

"Falkon" <
> Why didn't you keep driving until you could stop somewhere safe??
Not always possible.

[Ext User(Mot Adv-NSW)]

"Noddy"
>> Advocacy; use a warning triangle.

> And get the fuck off the road.
Agreed, in this case the car was completely in the marked shoulder, and I'd
not attend to it in any case at that point.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21125177-1702,00.html

> If the truck driver couldn't see a *car* with some guy working on it, he'd
> have no hope in hell of seeing a pissy little triangle.
A standard argument I typically find among car forums, that fail to
understand the 'dynamics' of a situation - of the science of situational
awareness. Much more to this topic than a dismissive; 'pissy little
triangle'.

The unit in this case would be placed 150 metres (steps) before the car (a
green Falcon with hazard lights on), as a device that 'stands-out' by its
'specification in design'; - it naturally draws your attention to the side
of the road it is set, and a natural and common reaction is to then steer
'wide' of the scene it protects. In this case, within lane >>to the right
side of this left traffic-lane, rather than middle or left of it.

Rem - we are inherently told to 'keep left generally'.

One proceeds invariably paying attention to the scene up ahead (the what is
'it' factor is instilled) and the hazards warning lights - if activated,
then show the 'spot'.

(Rem the old reference to 'advanced hazard warning triangles' commonly used
during the 1970's before dumbing down removed the hint of placement).

Point being, one driving along in normal-condition(ed)-mode is *alerted*
#to something# out of the ordinary.

Human beings and cars don't necessarily contrast well, they are background
noise - issue of observation of same etc and whatnot come into play.

What matters? The QUALITY and SPECIFICATION of the protective item/s to be
used and required.

Australian Standard 3790 is based on mid 1980's US adoption, and to be
diplomatic - it is 'second class', but thats something I expect from this
backward place. AS3790 also accepts the Euro/United Nations Specification
as an 'alternative' It is the Euro/World type which needs be mandated. The
tools of the road a road user might need some day.

I have used these items at numerous crash scenes on all categories of road
for many years. The end reality is that approaching traffic behaviour *is*
modified. The same principle of behaviour applies when we use witches hats
in the emergency services.

Now, I'll add a further observation. "Safety Vest". Late 2005 saw it
mandatory in most EU places to "carry and wear a safety vest at breakdowns
and crash scenes", done to help a road user stand out better to approaching
traffic. I also impart this device in all our state driver manuals, heck,
they cost as little as $4-00 (Hot Dollar to EU ITSA spec).

These two worthy items we lack, they are items being promoted by the UN
Transport Division for worldwide adoption, and even now rate mention in
Convention under development. Not without reason.

Education; I have text and picture of the UN standard triangle in my NSW RUH
book, text placed in the TAS and WA books, and SA too. Further changes to
topic will apply to QLD, ACT and VIC some day.

I know the scene well, and I'd bet, that even if this bloke had fallen back
whilst trying to get up - into left traffic lane, that he'd be alive if the
triangle was placed owing the behavioural modified approach of traffic.

Hazard lights on scene exactly - do little to prepare approaching traffic
'sufficiently'.

Like they say, Aussies have no idea, yet expect higher speed allowances?!

This was a Ford, what this chap needed to carry, aside from a $4-10 vest,
was Ford Australia Part Number; A92SX 19F524AA. (UN/ECE Spec 27R in
transport). As a spare part it costs $46. Mitsubishi Australia have the
same unit as a genuine spare part for $20. Made by Hella Finland, both.

WA, Pdf 404kb.
http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/lic_drivesafebook_part4.pdf

TAS page 73. Pdf.
http://www.transport.tas.gov.au/licence_information/pdf/tas_road_rules_v3_part_3.pdf

Jeremy H. Pritchard
Mot Adv-NSW

[Ext User(Mot Adv-NSW)]

"Athol" <.net> wrote in message .au...
> Mot Adv-NSW < wrote:
>> Can't say the same for a Falcon driver, stopped on the F3 Minmi region
>> this
>> Australia Day 2007 in the left shoulder.
>> He was collected by a truck whilst changing a tyre.

>> Advocacy; use a warning triangle.
>
> Minmi. Northbound or Southbound?
North, see Sats Newcastle Herald.


> In both directions, there are guardrail-protected breakdown bays with NRMA
> emergency phones. While one would obviously not bother ringing "no real
> mechanic available", these breakdown bays provide a higher degree of
> safety
> for such things as wheel changing than the shoulder.
>
> On the southbound side, you've also got the large pad on the left where
> the
> freeway used to end and deviate off onto the local road. If all else
> fails,
> there is the option of taking the Newcastle link road exit, parking on the
> corner of the Minmi Rd roundabout, then doing a u-turn on the roundabout
> to
> get back onto the freeway.
>
> Heading northbound, there's the driver reviver location and a servo at the
> end of the freeway. That's literally only a couple of km up the road...
>
> If the driver had parked in one of the existing, available locations to do
> the tyre change, he would have been well enough protected by roadside
> hardware to not need the triangle!
>
> Then again, I'd rather sacrifice a tyre for the sake of my own safety...

God yes - not one to desire wheel changing by the freeway. Spoke with GB's
AA a few months back regarding their personal resistance to an EU directive
mandating a warning triangle requirement (carry and use), "we don't want
people running up and down motorway shoulders', and 'we just had a patrolman
killed attending a vehicle and he had his amber revolving lights on'. Same
old ignornmace of 'advanced warning' and behaviour modification done by the
use of warning triangles. The ONLY EU jurisdiction to not get it, yet.

Mad cow disease prevails. Speak later Athol.

JP


> --
> Athol
> <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
> I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Ext User(Noddy)]

"Mot Adv-NSW" <mot.adv@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:12rm6mhgjo4saa2@corp.supernews.com...

> A standard argument I typically find among car forums, that fail to
> understand the 'dynamics' of a situation - of the science of situational
> awareness. Much more to this topic than a dismissive; 'pissy little
> triangle'.

I've nothing against warning triangles Jeremy, or any other device that will
help make people aware and avoid a potential disaster, but simply carrying
one isn't enough. You have to educate the people on how to use them
*properly*, and even if you gave them away for *free* to every motorist in
the country making people use them to effect would be a task you'd never be
able to master.

Why do 95% of pedestrians who get killed do so within 50 meters of a
perfectly safe crossing? Because they're too fucking lazy to go out of their
way to help themselves....

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Ext User(Knobdoodle)]

"Falkon" <falkon@noname.com.au> wrote in message
news:45baaaf6@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Noddy wrote:
>> "Mot Adv-NSW" <mot.adv@internode.on.net> wrote in message
>> news:12rjmm4m2km91b0@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>> Can't say the same for a Falcon driver, stopped on the F3 Minmi region
>>> this Australia Day 2007 in the left shoulder.
>>> He was collected by a truck whilst changing a tyre.
>>>
>>> Advocacy; use a warning triangle.
>>
>> And get the fuck off the road.
>>
>> If the truck driver couldn't see a *car* with some guy working on it,
>> he'd have no hope in hell of seeing a pissy little triangle.
>
> It amazes me how so many drivers think a flat tyre is the same as all four
> wheels falling off.
>
They get it from the movies.
If the baddie is chasing you with an axe and you find that your tyre is flat
you've got no choice but to run into the woods and be slaughtered because
getaway-cars just cannot move without air in their tyres!
--
Knob
('cept on train-tracks!)

[Ext User(Kev)]

Falkon wrote:
> Noddy wrote:
>
>> "Mot Adv-NSW" <mot.adv@internode.on.net> wrote in message
>> news:12rjmm4m2km91b0@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>> Can't say the same for a Falcon driver, stopped on the F3 Minmi
>>> region this Australia Day 2007 in the left shoulder.
>>> He was collected by a truck whilst changing a tyre.
>>>
>>> Advocacy; use a warning triangle.
>>
>>
>> And get the fuck off the road.
>>
>> If the truck driver couldn't see a *car* with some guy working on it,
>> he'd have no hope in hell of seeing a pissy little triangle.
>
>
> It amazes me how so many drivers think a flat tyre is the same as all
> four wheels falling off.


It comes from some dickhead telling them that driving on a flat tyre
will fuck the tyre completely
so with this fear of having to spend $50 on a new tyre they stop on the
shoulder as soon as the tyre goes flat, no matter that the shoulder is
not wide enough for the car, so it's hanging out in the traffic lane,
drivers will go around and They don't want to fuck their tyre by driving
the 150m to the breakdown lane ahead

The two dumbest I have seen
the first was the dickhead stopped just around the bend on the Nth end
of the gateway bridge, he stopped out far enough so his stupid fat woman
could open the car door without hitting the armco(she was sitting there
with the door open while they changed the tyre)
so here he is kneeling out in the left lane of traffic changing the
tyre, trucks running down of the bridge(quite steep for those that ahve
never been on it) in the left lane come around the bend to be greeted
with the fuckwit kneeling in front of them

the other was the fuckwit who got a flat on his boat trailer(10 foot
tinny)going over the Airport overpass, so he stops just over the crest,
in the left lane and procceeds to change the boat trailer wheel, the
remove the wheel bearing type at that

bot of these dickheads had a good wide area less than 100m from where
they had stopped all for the sake of tyres that cost less than $100


Kev

[Ext User(Athol)]

Noddy <dg4163@(nospam)dodo.com.au> wrote:

> I've nothing against warning triangles Jeremy, or any other device that will
> help make people aware and avoid a potential disaster, but simply carrying
> one isn't enough. You have to educate the people on how to use them
> *properly*, and even if you gave them away for *free* to every motorist in
> the country making people use them to effect would be a task you'd never be
> able to master.

Now try reading that after replacing "warning triangles" with "motor vehicles"
and "carrying" with "driving"... :-)

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Ext User(Mot Adv-NSW)]

"Noddy" <
> I've nothing against warning triangles Jeremy, or any other device that
> will help make people aware and avoid a potential disaster, but simply
> carrying one isn't enough. You have to educate the people on how to use
> them *properly*, and even if you gave them away for *free* to every
> motorist in the country making people use them to effect would be a task
> you'd never be able to master.
Right - okay and I am in recognition of your points here. I attended an
overturned late model Landrover on NSW's Central Coasts Hue Hue road late
one night, I gave the driver, a man in his 60's and seemingly mildly
intoxicated, a warning triangle and took it out of its case and said to him,
"here, set this triangle up and place it up the road a bit to its edge. (A
tricky spot, crest and curve situation) while I then went the other way to
set a second unit. Gentleman had three grandkids in their early teens and
all were well.

Came back, and the bloke hadn't quite got the 'spider legs' set right - but
more than that, hadn't (or couldn't) form a simple triangle, he rather set
it as as the letter "U" :-))

Education; - I've shown two links, this is the direction in that respect
I'm taking on this basic topic. Tutorial to show pics of the quality of the
triangle (to plant the seed in a readers mind) and placement. Done with
additional advice as to vests, (even UHF CB) to expose generations over the
long term to new standards and to future requirement.

What would mandate the item per car - is ARR (or state) law (or an ADR and
NVS) that does not yet exist, NOR is there law that applies to the placement
for vehicles carrying a single unit.

I drafted a modified ARR on the matter some years ago. All in time. I had
proposed that it be manadatory to place under XX circumstance, that the unit
was to be carried in front of you when setting off to place it and when
returning it to store etc, with the state to levy penalty in the usual
manner for enforcement, - in the manner now applied to heavy vehicles that
fail to adequately set the units as required under ARR.

I thought that approach reasonable and in use OS. All in time.

> Why do 95% of pedestrians who get killed do so within 50 meters of a
> perfectly safe crossing? Because they're too fucking lazy to go out of
> their way to help themselves.
Sure . . .

> Regards,
> Noddy.

[Ext User(the_dawggie)]

On Jan 28, 4:53 am, Kev <kev...@optunet.com.au> wrote:

> It comes from some dickhead telling them that driving on a flat tyre
> will fuck the tyre completely

It can. I was pretty pissed orf to discover just slowing from around
100 kph to the side of the road totally fecked a good tyre (tube
failure) 7.5R16 tyre == expensive.

Anyway that's not the point, the more dangerous situation I've
been in I've described. In that I have traffic looking to the right
and getting up to speed to merge. Changing a tyre in that
situation is not a happy experience and I was glad to be outta
there when I finished.