Intermittent stalling: BA Fairlane G220

[Ext User(Greg)]

I have a very intermittent stalling problem with my BA Ford Fairlane G220
and I thought I'd see if anyone here has any ideas. Ford are currently
trying to find the problem.

Symptoms:
When idling, the revs are usually at about 650 or so, according to the
in-car tacho. Sometimes the rpm will start to waver up and down a bit, and
occasionally it will droop below the 500 mark. Even less frequently, it will
stall altogether. After it has stalled, it will start very easily. This
occurs either with or without the A/C on. Not sure whether there is any
temperature dependency. Also, shortly after starting the car, the rpm will
droop below the 500 mark - this happens often. (not sure whether it happens
every time or not)

Work so far:
The throttle body was dirty (carbon buildup), and it was cleaned. Since
this was cleaned, the situation seems to be a bit better, but it has stalled
once on the day after this work was done.

The car has done 45000km.

Greg.

[Ext User(OzOne)]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:22:00 +1000, "Greg"
<greg.REMOVEsullivan@THIScomputer.org> scribbled thusly:

>I have a very intermittent stalling problem with my BA Ford Fairlane G220
>and I thought I'd see if anyone here has any ideas. Ford are currently
>trying to find the problem.
>
>Symptoms:
>When idling, the revs are usually at about 650 or so, according to the
>in-car tacho. Sometimes the rpm will start to waver up and down a bit, and
>occasionally it will droop below the 500 mark. Even less frequently, it will
>stall altogether. After it has stalled, it will start very easily. This
>occurs either with or without the A/C on. Not sure whether there is any
>temperature dependency. Also, shortly after starting the car, the rpm will
>droop below the 500 mark - this happens often. (not sure whether it happens
>every time or not)
>
>Work so far:
>The throttle body was dirty (carbon buildup), and it was cleaned. Since
>this was cleaned, the situation seems to be a bit better, but it has stalled
>once on the day after this work was done.
>
>The car has done 45000km.
>
>Greg.
>

Look at replacing the idle bleed.
Had a very similar situation with my Triton a few months back, $85 for
a new idle bleed stepper fixed it.

Get hold of a workshop manual to see what the process is for checking
it before spending the bucks.
Be aware that a fault may not be stored in the ECU, mine wasn't.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

[Ext User(Jason James)]

"Greg" <greg.REMOVEsullivan@THIScomputer.org> wrote in message
news:4627eb89$0$25472$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> I have a very intermittent stalling problem with my BA Ford Fairlane G220
> and I thought I'd see if anyone here has any ideas. Ford are currently
> trying to find the problem.
>
> Symptoms:
> When idling, the revs are usually at about 650 or so, according to the
> in-car tacho. Sometimes the rpm will start to waver up and down a bit,
and
> occasionally it will droop below the 500 mark. Even less frequently, it
will
> stall altogether. After it has stalled, it will start very easily. This
> occurs either with or without the A/C on. Not sure whether there is any
> temperature dependency. Also, shortly after starting the car, the rpm
will
> droop below the 500 mark - this happens often. (not sure whether it
happens
> every time or not)
>
> Work so far:
> The throttle body was dirty (carbon buildup), and it was cleaned. Since
> this was cleaned, the situation seems to be a bit better, but it has
stalled
> once on the day after this work was done.
>
> The car has done 45000km.

The idle speed of modern engines is controlled by varying the amount of air
allowed into the throttle-body. This is ECU monitored and controlled by a
small electric motor or solenoid device called Idle Air Control valve. The
additional thing is the PCV has to be in good condition to maintain stable
idle. This means the PCV valve itself is clean, hoses used in the PCV and
the dipstick seal, oil-cap seal. In the Camry group, 95% of unstable idle
and stalling is the IAC itself sticking due crud build-up in the thingo
which opens and closes incrementally to control idle over small steps,..but
if Ford are having trouble, its probably not an easy one.

Jason

[Ext User(atec77')]

Greg wrote:
> I have a very intermittent stalling problem with my BA Ford Fairlane G220
> and I thought I'd see if anyone here has any ideas. Ford are currently
> trying to find the problem.
>
> Symptoms:
> When idling, the revs are usually at about 650 or so, according to the
> in-car tacho. Sometimes the rpm will start to waver up and down a bit, and
> occasionally it will droop below the 500 mark. Even less frequently, it will
> stall altogether. After it has stalled, it will start very easily. This
> occurs either with or without the A/C on. Not sure whether there is any
> temperature dependency. Also, shortly after starting the car, the rpm will
> droop below the 500 mark - this happens often. (not sure whether it happens
> every time or not)
>
> Work so far:
> The throttle body was dirty (carbon buildup), and it was cleaned. Since
> this was cleaned, the situation seems to be a bit better, but it has stalled
> once on the day after this work was done.
>
> The car has done 45000km.
>
> Greg.
>
>
SOunds like the stepper motor is crook , simple test is pull the plug
and see what happens , Ford should pick this easily if it is.

[Ext User(George W. Frost)]

"Greg" <greg.REMOVEsullivan@THIScomputer.org> wrote in message
news:4627eb89$0$25472$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>I have a very intermittent stalling problem with my BA Ford Fairlane G220
>and I thought I'd see if anyone here has any ideas. Ford are currently
>trying to find the problem.
>
> Symptoms:
> When idling, the revs are usually at about 650 or so, according to the
> in-car tacho. Sometimes the rpm will start to waver up and down a bit,
> and occasionally it will droop below the 500 mark. Even less frequently,
> it will stall altogether. After it has stalled, it will start very
> easily. This occurs either with or without the A/C on. Not sure whether
> there is any temperature dependency. Also, shortly after starting the
> car, the rpm will droop below the 500 mark - this happens often. (not sure
> whether it happens every time or not)
>
> Work so far:
> The throttle body was dirty (carbon buildup), and it was cleaned. Since
> this was cleaned, the situation seems to be a bit better, but it has
> stalled once on the day after this work was done.
>
> The car has done 45000km.
>
> Greg.


If you find the problem, let me know, I have the same problem with mine
45000 kilometres also
when I start from cold, it surges, about a 1 second surge and only about to
100 revs , as I idle down the street
haven't watched the tacho, but will do tomorrow morning

[Ext User(OzOne)]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:12:52 +1000, atec77' <""atec77 \"@
HoTMaIl.COM"> scribbled thusly:

>Greg wrote:
>> I have a very intermittent stalling problem with my BA Ford Fairlane G220
>> and I thought I'd see if anyone here has any ideas. Ford are currently
>> trying to find the problem.
>>
>> Symptoms:
>> When idling, the revs are usually at about 650 or so, according to the
>> in-car tacho. Sometimes the rpm will start to waver up and down a bit, and
>> occasionally it will droop below the 500 mark. Even less frequently, it will
>> stall altogether. After it has stalled, it will start very easily. This
>> occurs either with or without the A/C on. Not sure whether there is any
>> temperature dependency. Also, shortly after starting the car, the rpm will
>> droop below the 500 mark - this happens often. (not sure whether it happens
>> every time or not)
>>
>> Work so far:
>> The throttle body was dirty (carbon buildup), and it was cleaned. Since
>> this was cleaned, the situation seems to be a bit better, but it has stalled
>> once on the day after this work was done.
>>
>> The car has done 45000km.
>>
>> Greg.
>>
>>
>SOunds like the stepper motor is crook , simple test is pull the plug
>and see what happens , Ford should pick this easily if it is.

If it's crook, nothing will happen....if it's working...probably
nothing will happen again.

One method of testing is to warm the engine, then turn it off.
Pull the plug to the engine coolant sensor and plug it onto another
that's at room temp.
Turn on the ignition without starting the car and you should hear the
stepper motor rattling away to the new setting required for a cold
engine.

I assume that you could just lift the bonnet on a cold start and hear
the stepper running, but I'm not sure.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

[Ext User(Greg)]

"George W. Frost" <frosty@iceworks.org> wrote in message
news:e1XVh.16719$M.12392@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> If you find the problem, let me know, I have the same problem with mine
> 45000 kilometres also
> when I start from cold, it surges, about a 1 second surge and only about
> to 100 revs , as I idle down the street
> haven't watched the tacho, but will do tomorrow morning

Ok, will do.

Ford were very relucant to replace the stepper motor today, despite my
offering to pay for it. (it's still under warranty). They would really like
to see an error code before they replace it - no error codes have been
logged.
They suggested I drive the car more and wait for the problem to get worse.
:(

So I've got the car back and will see what happens. So far the only thing
that has happened is that once, the revs dropped to 500 while it was idling.
(I suspect the revs actually dropped lower - the tacho probably has a rather
slow response, and will not catch transients very well?)

Greg.

[Ext User(OzOne)]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:29:06 +1000, "Greg"
<greg.REMOVEsullivan@THIScomputer.org> scribbled thusly:

>"George W. Frost" <frosty@iceworks.org> wrote in message
>news:e1XVh.16719$M.12392@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> If you find the problem, let me know, I have the same problem with mine
>> 45000 kilometres also
>> when I start from cold, it surges, about a 1 second surge and only about
>> to 100 revs , as I idle down the street
>> haven't watched the tacho, but will do tomorrow morning
>
>Ok, will do.
>
>Ford were very relucant to replace the stepper motor today, despite my
>offering to pay for it. (it's still under warranty). They would really like
>to see an error code before they replace it - no error codes have been
>logged.
>They suggested I drive the car more and wait for the problem to get worse.
>:(
>
>So I've got the car back and will see what happens. So far the only thing
>that has happened is that once, the revs dropped to 500 while it was idling.
>(I suspect the revs actually dropped lower - the tacho probably has a rather
>slow response, and will not catch transients very well?)
>
>Greg.
>

Greg, my Triton didn't throw a fault code when the idle control
stepper failed, but it took only a few minutes to decide that it had
indeed gone US, and less than 10 to fit the new one.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

[Ext User(Jason James)]

> >>
> >SOunds like the stepper motor is crook , simple test is pull the plug
> >and see what happens , Ford should pick this easily if it is.
>
> If it's crook, nothing will happen....if it's working...probably
> nothing will happen again.
>
> One method of testing is to warm the engine, then turn it off.
> Pull the plug to the engine coolant sensor and plug it onto another
> that's at room temp.
> Turn on the ignition without starting the car and you should hear the
> stepper motor rattling away to the new setting required for a cold
> engine.
>
> I assume that you could just lift the bonnet on a cold start and hear
> the stepper running, but I'm not sure.

Another way is to turn on the AC while idling.

Jason

[Ext User(OzOne)]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 17:34:58 +1000, "Jason James" <home@work.1.0>
scribbled thusly:

>
>> >>
>> >SOunds like the stepper motor is crook , simple test is pull the plug
>> >and see what happens , Ford should pick this easily if it is.
>>
>> If it's crook, nothing will happen....if it's working...probably
>> nothing will happen again.
>>
>> One method of testing is to warm the engine, then turn it off.
>> Pull the plug to the engine coolant sensor and plug it onto another
>> that's at room temp.
>> Turn on the ignition without starting the car and you should hear the
>> stepper motor rattling away to the new setting required for a cold
>> engine.
>>
>> I assume that you could just lift the bonnet on a cold start and hear
>> the stepper running, but I'm not sure.
>
>Another way is to turn on the AC while idling.
>
>Jason
>
Could you hear the stepper over the engine noise....It's a BA after
all :-)


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

[Ext User(Greg)]

"Jason James" <home@work.1.0> wrote in message
news:46286c7d$0$83725$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...
> Another way is to turn on the AC while idling.

When I do that, the engine rpms do not rise at all (or maybe a very VERY
slight increase) - is that wrong? In every other car I've been in, the revs
increaes noticably when the A/C is on.

Greg.

[Ext User(atec77')]

Greg wrote:
> "Jason James" <home@work.1.0> wrote in message
> news:46286c7d$0$83725$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...
>> Another way is to turn on the AC while idling.
>
> When I do that, the engine rpms do not rise at all (or maybe a very VERY
> slight increase) - is that wrong? In every other car I've been in, the revs
> increaes noticably when the A/C is on.
>
> Greg.
>
>
If you just unplug it the revs should drop a bit , if it doesn't then I
expect it's shagged .

[Ext User(Jason James)]

"Greg" <greg.REMOVEsullivan@THIScomputer.org> wrote in message
news:46286f9e$0$25493$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> "Jason James" <home@work.1.0> wrote in message
> news:46286c7d$0$83725$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...
> > Another way is to turn on the AC while idling.
>
> When I do that, the engine rpms do not rise at all (or maybe a very VERY
> slight increase) - is that wrong? In every other car I've been in, the
revs
> increaes noticably when the A/C is on.
>
> Greg.

Well in theory the throttle increases to maintain idle when the AC is
selected. But many cars do increase idle with the AC on however.

Jason

[Ext User(George W. Frost)]

"Greg" <greg.REMOVEsullivan@THIScomputer.org> wrote in message
news:46286f9e$0$25493$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> "Jason James" <home@work.1.0> wrote in message
> news:46286c7d$0$83725$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...
>> Another way is to turn on the AC while idling.
>
> When I do that, the engine rpms do not rise at all (or maybe a very VERY
> slight increase) - is that wrong? In every other car I've been in, the
> revs increaes noticably when the A/C is on.
>
> Greg.


Same here, nothing happens to the revs when the AC is turned on
You can hear the AC working, but the revs stay constant

[Ext User(OzOne)]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:12:10 +1000, atec77' <""atec77 \"@
HoTMaIl.COM"> scribbled thusly:

>Greg wrote:
>> "Jason James" <home@work.1.0> wrote in message
>> news:46286c7d$0$83725$c30e37c6@pit-reader.telstra.net...
>>> Another way is to turn on the AC while idling.
>>
>> When I do that, the engine rpms do not rise at all (or maybe a very VERY
>> slight increase) - is that wrong? In every other car I've been in, the revs
>> increaes noticably when the A/C is on.
>>
>> Greg.
>>
>>
>If you just unplug it the revs should drop a bit , if it doesn't then I
>expect it's shagged .


Not likely, it's a stepper motor, it will just stay where it is, not
return ot a neutral position.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,
We've been expecting you.

[Ext User(The Raven)]

"Greg" <greg.REMOVEsullivan@THIScomputer.org> wrote in message
news:4627eb89$0$25472$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>I have a very intermittent stalling problem with my BA Ford Fairlane G220
>and I thought I'd see if anyone here has any ideas. Ford are currently
>trying to find the problem.
>
> Symptoms:
> When idling, the revs are usually at about 650 or so, according to the
> in-car tacho. Sometimes the rpm will start to waver up and down a bit,
> and occasionally it will droop below the 500 mark. Even less frequently,
> it will stall altogether. After it has stalled, it will start very
> easily. This occurs either with or without the A/C on. Not sure whether
> there is any temperature dependency. Also, shortly after starting the
> car, the rpm will droop below the 500 mark - this happens often. (not sure
> whether it happens every time or not)
>
> Work so far:
> The throttle body was dirty (carbon buildup),

Carbon buildup? WTF? How does that occur given that the throttle body
operates in essentially a dry environment (air, no fuel, unlikely to have
crankcase venting at it to screw up its sensors)?

>and it was cleaned. Since this was cleaned, the situation seems to be a
>bit better, but it has stalled once on the day after this work was done.

I'd support what most people suggested, a problem with the Idle Air Control
system.

--
The Raven
http://www.80snostalgia.com/downloads/batfink/sounds/wings.mp3

[Ext User(atec77')]

The Raven wrote:
> "Greg" <greg.REMOVEsullivan@THIScomputer.org> wrote in message
> news:4627eb89$0$25472$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> I have a very intermittent stalling problem with my BA Ford Fairlane G220
>> and I thought I'd see if anyone here has any ideas. Ford are currently
>> trying to find the problem.
>>
>> Symptoms:
>> When idling, the revs are usually at about 650 or so, according to the
>> in-car tacho. Sometimes the rpm will start to waver up and down a bit,
>> and occasionally it will droop below the 500 mark. Even less frequently,
>> it will stall altogether. After it has stalled, it will start very
>> easily. This occurs either with or without the A/C on. Not sure whether
>> there is any temperature dependency. Also, shortly after starting the
>> car, the rpm will droop below the 500 mark - this happens often. (not sure
>> whether it happens every time or not)
>>
>> Work so far:
>> The throttle body was dirty (carbon buildup),
>
> Carbon buildup? WTF? How does that occur given that the throttle body
> operates in essentially a dry environment (air, no fuel, unlikely to have
> crankcase venting at it to screw up its sensors)?
>
>> and it was cleaned. Since this was cleaned, the situation seems to be a
>> bit better, but it has stalled once on the day after this work was done.
>
> I'd support what most people suggested, a problem with the Idle Air Control
> system.
>
Other problem might be oxy sensor , from the brand spares several hun ,
ebay is $50.00

[Ext User(Jason James)]

"The Raven" <wsmc@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:4629b058$0$16552$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
> "Greg" <greg.REMOVEsullivan@THIScomputer.org> wrote in message
> news:4627eb89$0$25472$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> >I have a very intermittent stalling problem with my BA Ford Fairlane G220
> >and I thought I'd see if anyone here has any ideas. Ford are currently
> >trying to find the problem.
> >
> > Symptoms:
> > When idling, the revs are usually at about 650 or so, according to the
> > in-car tacho. Sometimes the rpm will start to waver up and down a bit,
> > and occasionally it will droop below the 500 mark. Even less frequently,
> > it will stall altogether. After it has stalled, it will start very
> > easily. This occurs either with or without the A/C on. Not sure whether
> > there is any temperature dependency. Also, shortly after starting the
> > car, the rpm will droop below the 500 mark - this happens often. (not
sure
> > whether it happens every time or not)
> >
> > Work so far:
> > The throttle body was dirty (carbon buildup),
>
> Carbon buildup? WTF? How does that occur given that the throttle body
> operates in essentially a dry environment (air, no fuel, unlikely to have
> crankcase venting at it to screw up its sensors)?
>
> >and it was cleaned. Since this was cleaned, the situation seems to be a
> >bit better, but it has stalled once on the day after this work was done.
>
> I'd support what most people suggested, a problem with the Idle Air
Control
> system.

In the Camry 5SFE engine, there is a second crankcase ventilation hose on
the atmospheric side of the throttle-butterfly valve. Not sure if this is a
feature of all engines however.

Jason

[Ext User(Greg)]

"George W. Frost" <frosty@iceworks.org> wrote in message
news:e1XVh.16719$M.12392@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> If you find the problem, let me know, I have the same problem with mine

No luck yet. It's now had a thorough going over by an auto electrician -
they can't fault it.

It stalled about 10 times in one day last week, but no error codes at all
were logged.

The only little piece of information I can offer you is that there is a
revised TPS assembly available. Apparently certain error codes have to occur
before Ford will replace it, though. My plan of action now is to wait for
the problem to occur again, and when it does, just pay for the damn part
myself, and if the problem doesn't come back then politely ask Ford to pay
for it. (as I mentioned, still under warranty)

Greg.

[Ext User(Greg)]

I wrote:
> The only little piece of information I can offer you is that there is a
> revised TPS assembly available. Apparently certain error codes have to
> occur before Ford will replace it, though. My plan of action now is to
> wait for the problem to occur again, and when it does, just pay for the
> damn part myself, and if the problem doesn't come back then politely ask
> Ford to pay for it. (as I mentioned, still under warranty)

Forgot to mention that the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) assembly contains
the idle control bits and pieces as well, if I understood the dealer
correctly.

Greg.