Ext User(B0nz0)
12-07-2007, 08:03 PM
"Green Turtle" <Super Turtle@greenpiece.com> wrote in message
news:xgjli.108449$NV3.87910@pd7urf2no...
> "john fernbach" <fernbach1948@yahoo.com> wrote in message >
> > And if you think that the US government, or the British or German or
> > French or Dutch government, is seriously interested in promoting the
> > idea of climate change in order to promote "a new socialist movement,"
> > I think you're nuts.
>
> No, it is the other way around!! The socialist movement is promoting global
> warming issue.
>
> The idea of taxing the use of industrial production is a rather tempting
> concept for any intellectual socialist here. It does not take rocket science
> to realize that taxing the use of machines is great new way to tax industry
> (virtually most industrial production involves co2).
>
> So, it not so much the elected officials as it is the infrastructure and
> bureaucrats who actually stay in power from election to the next.
>
> Ask yourself how did the socialist movement sweep though most of Europe?
>
> You think socialism has swept through most of Europe by accident? The French
> government (regardless if the elected president is left or right) is for the
> most part very socialist. The crushing taxes and socialist ideals has
> resulted in a very stagnant economy, and job creating has been very poor.
>
> So, the concepts of taxing, redistribution of wealth, and the idea of hating
> business and machines at the same time is a natural socialist ideal here.
> This not a conspiracy as much as it is a ideological fight here.
>
> It not the governments pushing GW to push socialism, it the socialist
> movement pushing governments and institutions on this issue. How do you
> think socialism has swept though most of Europe?
>
> >
> > And for the professional Libertarian ideologues -- for the kinds of
> > testosterone-fueled young conservative men who get paid good money
> > churning out "research"
>
> The exact same self interest exists for the UN, and the billions of dollars
> to be realized in taxing industrial production, and co2 taxes.
>
>
> > That gives the professional Libertarian propagandists every reason in
> > the world to attack GW as a supposed hoax
>
> And the same goes for the IPCC.
> The IPCC was not formed with the view to study weather, but formed to study
> global warming (read that as already a foregone conclusion). The idea that
> the IPCC represents a consensuses is pure rubbish. Just try and submit a
> differing viewpoint and see what happens.
>
> Governments and bureaucrats (not the elected officials) are very socialist
> in nature (after all, their jobs are to live off taxes...not pay them). So,
> bureaucrats and socialist stand to gain huge from this issue. You mean you
> can find a bureaucrat that wants to lower taxes, and lay government people
> off? Lets not be silly about the self interest here.
>
> Further this additional tax on industry means further control. Every time
> you turn over a industry to government, you loose freedom and lower you
> standard of living.
>
> You can have the government run the farms like they did in Russia and have
> the people go hungry. Over here we put lights on the tractors and work well
> into the dark, and have plenty of food.
>
> Regulation of industry and the ability to tell people what to do is a
> socialist ideal of governments. Bureaucrats are really good at doing
> nothing, and consuming huge amounts of tax dollars to be un-productive. It
> is the good easy government life. You get to go home at 4:30 pm, have full
> medial benefits while small private business work 12-15 hours a day to
> support that easy bureaucratic life.
>
> Hey, maybe you can be appointed as the chief co2 regulator in your
> neighborhood...and, you get great medical benefits too!
>
> >
> > And the fact that until just recently, Exxon-Mobil was spending
> > something like $43 million in donations to rightwing think tanks to
> > cast doubt on the science
>
> Yes, but the funding going into global warming is MUCH MUCH higher (it is
> the same as cancer research now!!!)
>
> > As Jeff Goodell points out in his book "Big Coal," it's also the case
> > that the most powerful railroad companies in the country, CSX and
> > Northfolk-Southern, have a huge stake in the shipment of American coal
> > from the mines to the port cities where the stuff is exported overseas
> > -- meaning that Big Railroads are a silent partner to Big Coal, with a
> > common interest in blocking Kyoto-style regulations on coal burning
> > and CO2 emissions.
>
> Sure, they most certainly do have a interest. No doubt about it.
>
> >
> > That means you guys in the GW Denial game have a tremendous financial
> > base and a good-sized population base to go with it. And you've shown
> > real skill in manipulating popular and elite opinion to date.
>
> Well, then tell me how socialism has swept thought most western countries of
> the world? if the involved the business side could win, then why is the
> Europe economy so stagnant right now? Fact is, that business did not win
> against the socialism that running these economies into the ground.
>
> The same thing applies to the global warming ruse. This is being driven by
> the socialist movement.
>
> Super Turtle
As confirmed by founder of Greenpeace Patrick Morre ....
[Climate change theory became the main focus of extremists after] "world
communism failed, the Wall came down and a lot of peaceniks and political
activists moved into the environmental movement bringing their neo-Marxism with
them and learnt to used green language in a very clever way to cloak agendas
that have more to do with anti-capitalism and anti-globalisation than ...
ecology or science."
Regards
Bonzo
"...and I think future generations are not going to blame us for anything except
for being silly, for letting a few tenths of a degree panic us"
Dr. Richard Lindzen, Professor of Meteorology MIT and Member of the National
Academy of Sciences
"What most commentators-and many scientists-seem to miss is that the only thing
we can say with certainly about climate is that it changes" Dr. Richard Lindzen,
Professor of Meteorology MIT and Member of the National Academy of Sciences
[most of the current alarm over climate change is based on] "inherently
untrustworthy climate models, similar to those that cannot accurately forecast
the weather a week from now." Dr. Richard Lindzen, Professor of Meteorology MIT
and Member of the National Academy of Sciences
news:xgjli.108449$NV3.87910@pd7urf2no...
> "john fernbach" <fernbach1948@yahoo.com> wrote in message >
> > And if you think that the US government, or the British or German or
> > French or Dutch government, is seriously interested in promoting the
> > idea of climate change in order to promote "a new socialist movement,"
> > I think you're nuts.
>
> No, it is the other way around!! The socialist movement is promoting global
> warming issue.
>
> The idea of taxing the use of industrial production is a rather tempting
> concept for any intellectual socialist here. It does not take rocket science
> to realize that taxing the use of machines is great new way to tax industry
> (virtually most industrial production involves co2).
>
> So, it not so much the elected officials as it is the infrastructure and
> bureaucrats who actually stay in power from election to the next.
>
> Ask yourself how did the socialist movement sweep though most of Europe?
>
> You think socialism has swept through most of Europe by accident? The French
> government (regardless if the elected president is left or right) is for the
> most part very socialist. The crushing taxes and socialist ideals has
> resulted in a very stagnant economy, and job creating has been very poor.
>
> So, the concepts of taxing, redistribution of wealth, and the idea of hating
> business and machines at the same time is a natural socialist ideal here.
> This not a conspiracy as much as it is a ideological fight here.
>
> It not the governments pushing GW to push socialism, it the socialist
> movement pushing governments and institutions on this issue. How do you
> think socialism has swept though most of Europe?
>
> >
> > And for the professional Libertarian ideologues -- for the kinds of
> > testosterone-fueled young conservative men who get paid good money
> > churning out "research"
>
> The exact same self interest exists for the UN, and the billions of dollars
> to be realized in taxing industrial production, and co2 taxes.
>
>
> > That gives the professional Libertarian propagandists every reason in
> > the world to attack GW as a supposed hoax
>
> And the same goes for the IPCC.
> The IPCC was not formed with the view to study weather, but formed to study
> global warming (read that as already a foregone conclusion). The idea that
> the IPCC represents a consensuses is pure rubbish. Just try and submit a
> differing viewpoint and see what happens.
>
> Governments and bureaucrats (not the elected officials) are very socialist
> in nature (after all, their jobs are to live off taxes...not pay them). So,
> bureaucrats and socialist stand to gain huge from this issue. You mean you
> can find a bureaucrat that wants to lower taxes, and lay government people
> off? Lets not be silly about the self interest here.
>
> Further this additional tax on industry means further control. Every time
> you turn over a industry to government, you loose freedom and lower you
> standard of living.
>
> You can have the government run the farms like they did in Russia and have
> the people go hungry. Over here we put lights on the tractors and work well
> into the dark, and have plenty of food.
>
> Regulation of industry and the ability to tell people what to do is a
> socialist ideal of governments. Bureaucrats are really good at doing
> nothing, and consuming huge amounts of tax dollars to be un-productive. It
> is the good easy government life. You get to go home at 4:30 pm, have full
> medial benefits while small private business work 12-15 hours a day to
> support that easy bureaucratic life.
>
> Hey, maybe you can be appointed as the chief co2 regulator in your
> neighborhood...and, you get great medical benefits too!
>
> >
> > And the fact that until just recently, Exxon-Mobil was spending
> > something like $43 million in donations to rightwing think tanks to
> > cast doubt on the science
>
> Yes, but the funding going into global warming is MUCH MUCH higher (it is
> the same as cancer research now!!!)
>
> > As Jeff Goodell points out in his book "Big Coal," it's also the case
> > that the most powerful railroad companies in the country, CSX and
> > Northfolk-Southern, have a huge stake in the shipment of American coal
> > from the mines to the port cities where the stuff is exported overseas
> > -- meaning that Big Railroads are a silent partner to Big Coal, with a
> > common interest in blocking Kyoto-style regulations on coal burning
> > and CO2 emissions.
>
> Sure, they most certainly do have a interest. No doubt about it.
>
> >
> > That means you guys in the GW Denial game have a tremendous financial
> > base and a good-sized population base to go with it. And you've shown
> > real skill in manipulating popular and elite opinion to date.
>
> Well, then tell me how socialism has swept thought most western countries of
> the world? if the involved the business side could win, then why is the
> Europe economy so stagnant right now? Fact is, that business did not win
> against the socialism that running these economies into the ground.
>
> The same thing applies to the global warming ruse. This is being driven by
> the socialist movement.
>
> Super Turtle
As confirmed by founder of Greenpeace Patrick Morre ....
[Climate change theory became the main focus of extremists after] "world
communism failed, the Wall came down and a lot of peaceniks and political
activists moved into the environmental movement bringing their neo-Marxism with
them and learnt to used green language in a very clever way to cloak agendas
that have more to do with anti-capitalism and anti-globalisation than ...
ecology or science."
Regards
Bonzo
"...and I think future generations are not going to blame us for anything except
for being silly, for letting a few tenths of a degree panic us"
Dr. Richard Lindzen, Professor of Meteorology MIT and Member of the National
Academy of Sciences
"What most commentators-and many scientists-seem to miss is that the only thing
we can say with certainly about climate is that it changes" Dr. Richard Lindzen,
Professor of Meteorology MIT and Member of the National Academy of Sciences
[most of the current alarm over climate change is based on] "inherently
untrustworthy climate models, similar to those that cannot accurately forecast
the weather a week from now." Dr. Richard Lindzen, Professor of Meteorology MIT
and Member of the National Academy of Sciences