Re: Tiges going in the right direction ?

[Ext User(Mr Black)]

"Thunnus" <Thunnusalbacarus@hotmaiol.com> wrote in message
news:f8gpsg$7p5$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...
> Well, I noticed were now out to 66 point losses (at least its only 11
> points worse than 2 weeks ago) , and our beloved leader is still saying
> we're going in the right direction? Mind you on the current path in 12
> months we'll be averaging 196 point losses a game.
>
> Ah terry, I for one am with you General Custer.

Im actually getting a tad confused by it all now.
I've moved past a plethora of other emotions, and Im now at confused.
Can someone PLEASE tell me why is he still in a job??????
Would it not be so much less painful for everyone to just sack him and pay
him out??

MrB

[Ext User(Thunnus)]

"k r u d l e r" <tell...it...to...the..hand@tv.com> wrote in
news:46abf321$0$12802$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u:

>
> "Mr Black" <mr_black@REMOVESPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:46abee4d$0$13845$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Thunnus" <Thunnusalbacarus@hotmaiol.com> wrote in message
>> news:f8gpsg$7p5$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...
>>> Well, I noticed were now out to 66 point losses (at least its only
>>> 11 points worse than 2 weeks ago) , and our beloved leader is still
>>> saying we're going in the right direction? Mind you on the current
>>> path in 12 months we'll be averaging 196 point losses a game.
>>>
>>> Ah terry, I for one am with you General Custer.
>>
>> Im actually getting a tad confused by it all now.
>> I've moved past a plethora of other emotions, and Im now at confused.
>> Can someone PLEASE tell me why is he still in a job??????
>> Would it not be so much less painful for everyone to just sack him
>> and pay him out??
>>
>> MrB
>
>
> and bring back the great one ... the extra 5,000 members Sheeds would
> bring back would pay out Terry's wages ..
>
>

I'm not sure about Terry's pick of assistant coaches. These are the guys
incharge of Skills, Goalkicking Ruck coaching. Looking at the list of
assistant coaches at richmonmd doesn't instill a warm and fuzzy feeling.

http://richmondfc.com.au/Season2007/Coaches/tabid/7703/Default.aspx

I'm all for blooding young players, but not 15 at a time ? Why would a
player want to play at richmond? for as soon as you get some experiance
and a few years under your belt, you're deemed as an OLDie, and replaced
by some kid who is 8 stone and still has pimples and a high voice ?

Now i agree there are a lot of questionable players in the older ranks at
richmond, and a lot need to go, But the direction of wholsale replacement
with kiddies, looks to be a tad drastic.



\

[Ext User(Matt S)]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:53:35 +1000, "k r u d l e r"
<tell...it...to...the..hand@tv.com> wrote:

>
>"Mr Black" <mr_black@REMOVESPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>news:46abee4d$0$13845$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Thunnus" <Thunnusalbacarus@hotmaiol.com> wrote in message
>> news:f8gpsg$7p5$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...
>>> Well, I noticed were now out to 66 point losses (at least its only 11
>>> points worse than 2 weeks ago) , and our beloved leader is still saying
>>> we're going in the right direction? Mind you on the current path in 12
>>> months we'll be averaging 196 point losses a game.
>>>
>>> Ah terry, I for one am with you General Custer.
>>
>> Im actually getting a tad confused by it all now.
>> I've moved past a plethora of other emotions, and Im now at confused.
>> Can someone PLEASE tell me why is he still in a job??????
>> Would it not be so much less painful for everyone to just sack him and pay
>> him out??
>>
>> MrB
>
>
>and bring back the great one ... the extra 5,000 members Sheeds would bring
>back would pay out Terry's wages ..
>
True in principle Krud. The marketing, the romance, the fit...its all
good.

Can Tiggers afford BOTH a big payout AND a Sheedy payroll ? Ooops.

But I'd bet Sheed's would not need until 2011 to get 'em thereabouts!!

hooroo....

[Ext User(Thunnus)]

David Clayton <dcstar@XYZ.myrealbox.com> wrote in
news:46ac2719$0$2993$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.
au:

> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:32:00 +1000, Mr Black wrote:
> .......
>> Im actually getting a tad confused by it all now. I've moved past a
>> plethora of other emotions, and Im now at confused. Can someone
>> PLEASE tell me why is he still in a job?????? Would it not be so much
>> less painful for everyone to just sack him and pay him out??
>>
> He has a job because fools (and that term was heavily self-censored
> because kiddies may read this) kept blaming coaches and turning them
> over with no real solution to what is obviously an underlying problem
> that changing individuals in that role won't fix.
>
> How many years does repeating useless (apart from giving people
> someone to blame) behaviour have occur before people wake up to the
> fact that it doesn't work?
>

Dave

Do you feel the wholesale introduction of "kids" into the team and
watching the team being beaten by ever increasing scores, a good
direction to be heading? both for the club and the young players ?

You can blame everyone who has anything to do with the recruitment
process, but ultimately it comes down to the current players list and the
coaches. And the question is, is Terry (and his team) the man to get the
best from the current list ?

I'm not sure you basically have to be un-competitive for several
years to actually get any better. And if these "Kids" being thrown in the
deep end, arn't ready for this yet, are we doing more harm than good to
the younger players.

Greg

[Ext User(The Ranger)]

On Jul 29, 3:35 pm, David Clayton <dcs...@XYZ.myrealbox.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:32:00 +1000, Mr Black wrote:
>
> .......> Im actually getting a tad confused by it all now. I've moved past a
> > plethora of other emotions, and Im now at confused. Can someone PLEASE
> > tell me why is he still in a job?????? Would it not be so much less
> > painful for everyone to just sack him and pay him out??
>
> He has a job because fools (and that term was heavily self-censored
> because kiddies may read this) kept blaming coaches and turning them over
> with no real solution to what is obviously an underlying problem that
> changing individuals in that role won't fix.
>
> How many years does repeating useless (apart from giving people someone
> to blame) behaviour have occur before people wake up to the fact that it
> doesn't work?

I'm with you. Obviously, this season has been a huge disappointment,
and I'm not entirely confident that Wallace knows what he's doing, but
sacking him now would do more harm than good. Give him at least
another year and if we're in the same position next season, then it
might be time for him to go.

[Ext User(Biggus.....)]

>Can someone PLEASE tell me why is he still in a job??????

its early in the week... remember we havent heard "HE HAS THE FULL
SUPPORT OF THE BOARD" yet.. which we all know what that means..

[Ext User(Biggus.....)]

> Give him at least another year and if we're in the same position next season, then it
>might be time for him to go.

I agree - keeps us off the bottom!

[Ext User(Mr Black)]

"k r u d l e r" <tell...it...to...the..hand@tv.com> wrote in message
news:46abf332$0$14405$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
> "Mr Black" <mr_black@REMOVESPAMBLOCKoptusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:46abee4d$0$13845$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Thunnus" <Thunnusalbacarus@hotmaiol.com> wrote in message
>> news:f8gpsg$7p5$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au...
>>> Well, I noticed were now out to 66 point losses (at least its only 11
>>> points worse than 2 weeks ago) , and our beloved leader is still saying
>>> we're going in the right direction? Mind you on the current path in 12
>>> months we'll be averaging 196 point losses a game.
>>>
>>> Ah terry, I for one am with you General Custer.
>>
>> Im actually getting a tad confused by it all now.
>> I've moved past a plethora of other emotions, and Im now at confused.
>> Can someone PLEASE tell me why is he still in a job??????
>> Would it not be so much less painful for everyone to just sack him and
>> pay him out??
>>
>> MrB
>
>
> p.s ... bloody Spain ..
>

best to leave that one alone....

[Ext User(Max Shambles)]

"Biggus....." <fu_kew__MYKNICKERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:huvoa3l8js8i93vpd47ertn2bpmimih2vl@4ax.com...
> > Give him at least another year and if we're in the same position next
season, then it
> >might be time for him to go.
>
> I agree - keeps us off the bottom!

The plow says 'even though we appear to be going backwards you can be
going forward' , [work that one out!]
it had to be a tanking team versus Sydney ,I mean who in there right
mind would bring back Krackouer & Moore to play with Tambling -- mad men
thats who , Sorry Cleave Hughes you arn't the answer to our problems
either..
I didn't mind Luke Mcguane, even though was beaten well by Hall , get
some bulk & muscle into his frame & he will be a long term backman for us

[Ext User(Ian Galbraith)]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:32:00 +1000, Mr Black wrote:

[snip]

> Im actually getting a tad confused by it all now.
> I've moved past a plethora of other emotions, and Im now at confused.
> Can someone PLEASE tell me why is he still in a job??????
> Would it not be so much less painful for everyone to just sack him and pay
> him out??

Paying him out would turn our profit into a loss, given he is not the
problem what does this achieve apart from satisfying the bloodlust of
some supporters?


--
"To say that these men paid their shillings to watch twenty-two hirelings
kick a ball is merely to say that a violin is wood and catgut, that
Hamlet is so much paper and ink. For a shilling the Bruddersford United
AFC offered you conflict and art." - J.B. Priestley

[Ext User(Ian Galbraith)]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 06:58:32 +0000 (UTC), Thunnus wrote:

[snip]

> Do you feel the wholesale introduction of "kids" into the team and
> watching the team being beaten by ever increasing scores, a good
> direction to be heading? both for the club and the young players ?

I'm confused, are you saying this is the problem? because the problem is
the senior players that have been there since before Wallace. Most
supporters seem to want more young players introduced.

> You can blame everyone who has anything to do with the recruitment
> process, but ultimately it comes down to the current players list and the
> coaches. And the question is, is Terry (and his team) the man to get the
> best from the current list ?

> I'm not sure you basically have to be un-competitive for several
> years to actually get any better. And if these "Kids" being thrown in the
> deep end, arn't ready for this yet, are we doing more harm than good to
> the younger players.

Whats the alternative? Recycled hacks from other clubs? because we've
seen how great that turns our both in the latter Frawley years and in the
Carlton of recent years.

--
"And onto the meaning of life: I¢m not someone with much use for faith
regarding the macro-issues of existence - I believe that the order of the
universe comes from emergent interactions on the micro-level, whether it
be human relations, birds flocking, or atomic physics." - Jason Mittell

[Ext User(Big LN)]

"Ian Galbraith" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:1qb6v1foz3dp9$.1ebl4uv5h8lny.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:32:00 +1000, Mr Black wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Im actually getting a tad confused by it all now.
>> I've moved past a plethora of other emotions, and Im now at confused.
>> Can someone PLEASE tell me why is he still in a job??????
>> Would it not be so much less painful for everyone to just sack him and
>> pay
>> him out??
>
> Paying him out would turn our profit into a loss, given he is not the
> problem what does this achieve apart from satisfying the bloodlust of
> some supporters?

Exactly. Well said.

'Onya

[Ext User(Ian Galbraith)]

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:28:44 +1000, Max Shambles wrote:

> "Biggus....." <fu_kew__MYKNICKERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:huvoa3l8js8i93vpd47ertn2bpmimih2vl@4ax.com...
>>> Give him at least another year and if we're in the same position next
> season, then it
>>>might be time for him to go.
>>
>> I agree - keeps us off the bottom!
>
> The plow says 'even though we appear to be going backwards you can be
> going forward' , [work that one out!]
> it had to be a tanking team versus Sydney ,I mean who in there right
> mind would bring back Krackouer & Moore to play with Tambling -- mad men
> thats who , Sorry Cleave Hughes you arn't the answer to our problems
> either..

Krakuer was BOG the previous 2 games for Coburg, he got 38 possessions
last week for Coburg. Wallace has to reward form, it doesn't mean he will
be retained at the end of the year. As for Moore apparently he's done
well on O'Keefe before, not this time though.

[snip]

--
"The primary objective of copyright is not to reward the labor of authors
but ´to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts.¡ To this end,
copyright assures authors the right to their original expression, but
encourages others to build freely upon the ideas and information conveyed
by a work. This result is neither unfair nor unfortunate." - Jonathan
Lethem

[Ext User(Mr Black)]

"Ian Galbraith" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:1qb6v1foz3dp9$.1ebl4uv5h8lny.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:32:00 +1000, Mr Black wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Im actually getting a tad confused by it all now.
>> I've moved past a plethora of other emotions, and Im now at confused.
>> Can someone PLEASE tell me why is he still in a job??????
>> Would it not be so much less painful for everyone to just sack him and
>> pay
>> him out??
>
> Paying him out would turn our profit into a loss,

you want to look at it from a business persepctive? lets see how many
memberships we are down next season....

> given he is not the problem

lets agree to disagree here

what does this achieve apart from satisfying the bloodlust of
> some supporters?

how about a little team pride to start with...

>
>
> --
> "To say that these men paid their shillings to watch twenty-two hirelings
> kick a ball is merely to say that a violin is wood and catgut, that
> Hamlet is so much paper and ink. For a shilling the Bruddersford United
> AFC offered you conflict and art." - J.B. Priestley

[Ext User(David Clayton)]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 06:58:32 +0000, Thunnus wrote:
..........
> You can blame everyone who has anything to do with the recruitment
> process, but ultimately it comes down to the current players list and
> the coaches. And the question is, is Terry (and his team) the man to get
> the best from the current list ?

The players - and coaches - are in an environment that has failed to
achieve anything significant for over 20 years now.

Individuals at all levels have been replaced with regular frequency, but
the same issues remain, why on earth would repeating the same failed
actions make any more difference than every single previous time?

Some of us tried to point out that a radical change in direction of the
club was required a few years ago, but we lost that board election to
those that promised that by "holding our course" that the good times were
just around the corner...... well, things haven't quite turned out that
way, have they?

IMHO there are fundamental problems at Punt Road that will continue to
prevent any individuals - whoever they are - from achieving real success,
and until they are recognised then I doubt that they will ever be
resolved.

Even if someone other than Wallace could come in for a couple of years
and get more from the current list, the improvement will only be marginal
and we will be back in the same position again shortly afterwards -
probably with the same calls to make the same mistakes all over
again...... :-(

--
Regards, David.

David Clayton
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Knowledge is a measure of how many answers you have, intelligence is a
measure of how many questions you have.

[Ext User(Ian Galbraith)]

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:14:15 +1000, Mr Black wrote:

> "Ian Galbraith" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:1qb6v1foz3dp9$.1ebl4uv5h8lny.dlg@40tude.net.. .
[snip]

>> Paying him out would turn our profit into a loss,

> you want to look at it from a business persepctive? lets see how many
> memberships we are down next season....

So we should make decisions driven by member demands?

>> given he is not the problem

> lets agree to disagree here

Our list is shithouse, Roos couldn't do much more than Wallace IMHO. As
has been proven by the last 27 years sacking the coach is not the answer.

>> what does this achieve apart from satisfying the bloodlust of
>> some supporters?
>
> how about a little team pride to start with...

Team pride caused by sacking the coach? We may as well pack up shop now
if those are our values.

--
"When I get a little money, I buy books. If any is left, I buy food and
clothes." - Erasmus

[Ext User(Thunnus)]

Ian Galbraith <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:8ea4rnnnjes4$.11d9ytotw52ud
$.dlg@40tude.net:

> On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:14:15 +1000, Mr Black wrote:
>
>> "Ian Galbraith" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:1qb6v1foz3dp9$.1ebl4uv5h8lny.dlg@40tude.net.. .
> [snip]
>
>>> Paying him out would turn our profit into a loss,
>
>> you want to look at it from a business persepctive? lets see how many
>> memberships we are down next season....
>
> So we should make decisions driven by member demands?
>
>>> given he is not the problem
>
>> lets agree to disagree here
>
> Our list is shithouse, Roos couldn't do much more than Wallace IMHO. As
> has been proven by the last 27 years sacking the coach is not the
answer.
>
>>> what does this achieve apart from satisfying the bloodlust of
>>> some supporters?
>>
>> how about a little team pride to start with...
>
> Team pride caused by sacking the coach? We may as well pack up shop now
> if those are our values.
>

So you feel Terry and his assistant coaches are bringing the best out of
the team , i.e skills ?

[Ext User(The Ranger)]

On Jul 30, 5:06 pm, Ian Galbraith <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:14:15 +1000, Mr Black wrote:
> > "Ian Galbraith" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >news:1qb6v1foz3dp9$.1ebl4uv5h8lny.dlg@40tude.net.. .

> >> what does this achieve apart from satisfying the bloodlust of
> >> some supporters?
>
> > how about a little team pride to start with...
>
> Team pride caused by sacking the coach? We may as well pack up shop now
> if those are our values.

Yep. We've been a laughing stock in the past for how often we change
coaches (amongst other reasons why we are a laughing stock). I for one
won't be at all proud that my team has sacked another coach. If we're
on 6 points at round 18 next season, then okay. Sack away.

[Ext User(Thunnus)]

David Clayton <dcstar@XYZ.myrealbox.com> wrote in
news:46adaa4e$0$2992$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.
au:

> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 06:58:32 +0000, Thunnus wrote:
> .........
>> You can blame everyone who has anything to do with the
>> recruitment
>> process, but ultimately it comes down to the current players list and
>> the coaches. And the question is, is Terry (and his team) the man to
>> get the best from the current list ?
>
> The players - and coaches - are in an environment that has failed to
> achieve anything significant for over 20 years now.
>
> Individuals at all levels have been replaced with regular frequency,
> but the same issues remain, why on earth would repeating the same
> failed actions make any more difference than every single previous
> time?
>
> Some of us tried to point out that a radical change in direction of
> the club was required a few years ago, but we lost that board election
> to those that promised that by "holding our course" that the good
> times were just around the corner...... well, things haven't quite
> turned out that way, have they?
>
> IMHO there are fundamental problems at Punt Road that will continue to
> prevent any individuals - whoever they are - from achieving real
> success, and until they are recognised then I doubt that they will
> ever be resolved.
>
> Even if someone other than Wallace could come in for a couple of years
> and get more from the current list, the improvement will only be
> marginal and we will be back in the same position again shortly
> afterwards - probably with the same calls to make the same mistakes
> all over again...... :-(
>

So why do a lot of playes that leave richmond perform well above what
they acheived at Richmomnd ? One assumes it isn't due to the boot studder
?

If what we are seeing is the best Terry can do, and the best the Players
can give, then i assume the solution is to keep Terry, and relace all of
the players ? Accepting we remain uncompetitive for the next 5 yers ?

Not a good outlook for supporters or Sponsers.

[Ext User(David Clayton)]

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:59:50 +0000, Thunnus wrote:
..........
> So why do a lot of playes that leave richmond perform well above what
> they acheived at Richmomnd ?

Who exactly?

Ottens, no - exactly the same inconsistent performances.
Fiora, no - has teased St.Kilda in the same way he teased us.
Rodan, going ok because he is not stuck in the fixed "mindset" that
people at Punt Road had him locked in.

The other multitudes of players that have left have basically
disappeared, so one out of a big group shoots that theory down.

--
Regards, David.

David Clayton
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Knowledge is a measure of how many answers you have, intelligence is a
measure of how many questions you have.