can digital get picture if analog TV is weak?

[Ext User(u235bomb@ml1.net)]

I have analogue telly at the moment. I use three
antennae for VHF low, VHF high, and UHF going
into a triplexer. Thus I can adjust each one
separately. The VHF high (for 7, 9, and 10)
is the problem, probably because the channel 10
transmitter is in a different direction to 7 and 9.
I have moved the antenna all over the place, but
can't get a good picture on all three. After
last attempt I have channel 7 the noisiest, and
if it rains, the picture drops back to black and
white. I can't raise the anntenna any higher.
So I wonder will going digital help?
If the signal is weak and borderline for analogue
TV, will a digital box pull out anything?

[Ext User(snapper@pookmail.com)]

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 23:36:52 -0700, u235bomb@ml1.net wrote:

> I have analogue telly at the moment. I use three
> antennae for VHF low, VHF high, and UHF going
> into a triplexer. Thus I can adjust each one
> separately. The VHF high (for 7, 9, and 10)
> is the problem, probably because the channel 10
> transmitter is in a different direction to 7 and 9.
> I have moved the antenna all over the place, but
> can't get a good picture on all three. After
> last attempt I have channel 7 the noisiest, and
> if it rains, the picture drops back to black and
> white. I can't raise the anntenna any higher.
> So I wonder will going digital help?
> If the signal is weak and borderline for analogue
> TV, will a digital box pull out anything?

No, if your analog signal is poor, digital will not work.

Have you tried a mast head amplifier?

[Ext User(David L. Jones)]

On Aug 3, 4:36 pm, u235b...@ml1.net wrote:
> I have analogue telly at the moment. I use three
> antennae for VHF low, VHF high, and UHF going
> into a triplexer. Thus I can adjust each one
> separately. The VHF high (for 7, 9, and 10)
> is the problem, probably because the channel 10
> transmitter is in a different direction to 7 and 9.
> I have moved the antenna all over the place, but
> can't get a good picture on all three. After
> last attempt I have channel 7 the noisiest, and
> if it rains, the picture drops back to black and
> white. I can't raise the anntenna any higher.
> So I wonder will going digital help?
> If the signal is weak and borderline for analogue
> TV, will a digital box pull out anything?

Impossible to say, it's always a case-by-case basis. But generally you
need a decent analog reception to get digital on your existing
antenna.
Look here to see where your digital transmitters are located:
http://www.dba.org.au/index.asp?sectionID=22

Sounds like it's time you upgraded your antenna and system
installation anyway. You might even be able to get away with a single
digital antenna.

Once you get digital you won't go back.

Dave.

[Ext User(Mr.T)]

<u235bomb@ml1.net> wrote in message
news:1186123012.494870.141410@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
> So I wonder will going digital help?
> If the signal is weak and borderline for analogue
> TV, will a digital box pull out anything?

It's my experience that most digital receivers give a small amount of pixel
break-up infrequently with a strong signal, and a large amount of frequent
break-up, or no picture at all with a very weak signal.
The performance of digital tuners varies just as much as analog tuners,
however frequent digital drop-outs can be even more annoying than a poor
analog signal IMO.

I suggest you simply try a STB that can be returned if unusable in your
location.

MrT.

[Ext User(Michael Bednarek)]

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 23:36:52 -0700, u235bomb@ml1.net wrote in
aus.tv.digital, [aus.electronics]:

>I have analogue telly at the moment. I use three
>antennae for VHF low, VHF high, and UHF going
>into a triplexer. Thus I can adjust each one
>separately. The VHF high (for 7, 9, and 10)
>is the problem, probably because the channel 10
>transmitter is in a different direction to 7 and 9.
>I have moved the antenna all over the place, but
>can't get a good picture on all three. After
>last attempt I have channel 7 the noisiest, and
>if it rains, the picture drops back to black and
>white. I can't raise the anntenna any higher.
>So I wonder will going digital help?
>If the signal is weak and borderline for analogue
>TV, will a digital box pull out anything?

I have very variable analogue reception here in a unit in Hamilton,
Brisbane. At some time, each channel is hardly watchable, especially
ch.7; at other times, they are all bearable.

However, the digital reception is pretty close to perfect. There are
occasional pixelations, picture break-ups and annoying loud audio
artifacts, but they may well be the result of the tuner.

To answer the question: get a STB and try it - you've got nothing to
lose.

--
Michael Bednarek http://mbednarek.com/ "POST NO BILLS"

[Ext User(Stuart)]

<u235bomb@ml1.net> wrote in message
news:1186123012.494870.141410@o61g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
>I have analogue telly at the moment. I use three
> antennae for VHF low, VHF high, and UHF going
> into a triplexer. Thus I can adjust each one
> separately. The VHF high (for 7, 9, and 10)
> is the problem, probably because the channel 10
> transmitter is in a different direction to 7 and 9.
> I have moved the antenna all over the place, but
> can't get a good picture on all three. After
> last attempt I have channel 7 the noisiest, and
> if it rains, the picture drops back to black and
> white. I can't raise the anntenna any higher.
> So I wonder will going digital help?
> If the signal is weak and borderline for analogue
> TV, will a digital box pull out anything?
>

The only sure way to know is to borrow a stb and try - remember you don't
need any reception below ch6 (analog) for digital channels and that gets rid
of a lot of noise. A friend who lives in the direct shadow of a shopping
centre in the inner west of Sydney has absolutely no analog reception but
when he installed a Fracarro digital antenna he was able to pick up all
Sydney digital stations by pointing the antenna at a building nearly 90
degrees off the correct normal direction - his only panic is if they ever
redevelop that 5 story block of units! So it's worth getting an Antenna
specialist out to do some in situ measurements...

[Ext User(bassett)]

"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186124368.203407.118260@d30g2000prg.googlegr oups.com...
> On Aug 3, 4:36 pm, u235b...@ml1.net wrote:
>> I have analogue telly at the moment. I use three
>> antennae for VHF low, VHF high, and UHF going
>> into a triplexer. Thus I can adjust each one
>> separately. The VHF high (for 7, 9, and 10)
>> is the problem,

*** that's because 7 & 9 are UHF

probably because the channel 10
>> transmitter is in a different direction to 7 and 9.
>> I have moved the antenna all over the place, but
>> can't get a good picture on all three. After
>> last attempt I have channel 7 the noisiest, and
>> if it rains, the picture drops back to black and
>> white. I can't raise the anntenna any higher.
>> So I wonder will going digital help?
>> If the signal is weak and borderline for analogue
>> TV, will a digital box pull out anything?
>
> Impossible to say, it's always a case-by-case basis. But generally you
> need a decent analog reception to get digital on your existing
> antenna.

*** It does not follow, that simply because you have a lousy
analogue signal, that a digital signal will be the same. In some
cases a non-existant analogue signal will result in a digital
signal.
With digital there is no such thing a s good or bad, You ether
have a signal or you don't.

> Look here to see where your digital transmitters are located:
> http://www.dba.org.au/index.asp?sectionID=22
>
> Sounds like it's time you upgraded your antenna and system
> installation anyway. You might even be able to get away with a single
> digital antenna.

*** Define "Digital" antenna. They don't exist..
>
> Once you get digital you won't go back.
> Dave

*** why would you want too ??????

[Ext User(John Tserkezis)]

bassett wrote:

> With digital there is no such thing a s good or bad, You ether
> have a signal or you don't.

Not quite true.

It is correct that a "weaker" digital signal will result in intermittant or
sometimes non-existant viewing.

However a too strong signal can also cause reception problems. Of course,
this doesn't happen very often, but it certainly has happened here in
Australia when people are close to the transmitters and still insist on using
high gain antennas.

I'm guessing it comes down to the AGC range of the receiver at the high end
of the scale, likely their analogue receiver was obviously better at handling
high signals than their set top box or whatever.

--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

[Ext User(bassett)]

"John Tserkezis" <jt@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:46b52624$0$29024$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> bassett wrote:
>
>> With digital there is no such thing a s good or bad, You ether
>> have a signal or you don't.
>
> Not quite true.
>
> It is correct that a "weaker" digital signal will result in intermittant
> or sometimes non-existant viewing.
>
> However a too strong signal can also cause reception problems. Of
> course, this doesn't happen very often, but it certainly has happened here
> in Australia when people are close to the transmitters and still insist on
> using high gain antennas.
>
> I'm guessing it comes down to the AGC range of the receiver at the high
> end of the scale, likely their analogue receiver was obviously better at
> handling high signals than their set top box or whatever.
>
> --
> Linux Registered User # 302622
> <http://counter.li.org>

I think your attempting to split hairs, and failing.

FEC decides if the standard of the signal is reproducible.

While I will agree with you in part about high gain antenna's it's
still controlled by FEC, and this also makes masthead amps obsolete.

Many people who had a high gain antenna, for analogue systems,
retained that antenna, and in 99 cases out of a 100, it does the
job.
And some people will tell you, that it's imposable to have a "too"
strong signal, it's also arguable , that modern Tuners are self
regulating in that regard.. BUT unlike analogue, we have "Forward
Error Correction " which examens the signal long before it reaches the
Tuner, Would you not agree.
bassett

[Ext User(Anthony Horan)]

On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:43:45 +1000, snapper@pookmail.com wrote:

> No, if your analog signal is poor, digital will not work.

*Cough*

Bullshit.

[Ext User(a t e c 7 7)]

snapper@pookmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 23:36:52 -0700, u235bomb@ml1.net wrote:
>
>> I have analogue telly at the moment. I use three
>> antennae for VHF low, VHF high, and UHF going
>> into a triplexer. Thus I can adjust each one
>> separately. The VHF high (for 7, 9, and 10)
>> is the problem, probably because the channel 10
>> transmitter is in a different direction to 7 and 9.
>> I have moved the antenna all over the place, but
>> can't get a good picture on all three. After
>> last attempt I have channel 7 the noisiest, and
>> if it rains, the picture drops back to black and
>> white. I can't raise the anntenna any higher.
>> So I wonder will going digital help?
>> If the signal is weak and borderline for analogue
>> TV, will a digital box pull out anything?
>
> No, if your analog signal is poor, digital will not work.
>
> Have you tried a mast head amplifier?
>
>
Completely wrong , the only way to find out is try it , very often bad
analogue on lower channels is easily beaten by digital

[Ext User(Dorfus Dippintush)]

David L. Jones wrote:
> On Aug 5, 11:10 am, "bassett" <bass...@bassettskennel.com.au> wrote:
>> "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1186124368.203407.118260@d30g2000prg.g ooglegroups.com...
>>
>>> On Aug 3, 4:36 pm, u235b...@ml1.net wrote:
>>>> I have analogue telly at the moment. I use three
>>>> antennae for VHF low, VHF high, and UHF going
>>>> into a triplexer. Thus I can adjust each one
>>>> separately. The VHF high (for 7, 9, and 10)
>>>> is the problem,
>> *** that's because 7 & 9 are UHF
>>
>> probably because the channel 10
>>
>>>> transmitter is in a different direction to 7 and 9.
>>>> I have moved the antenna all over the place, but
>>>> can't get a good picture on all three. After
>>>> last attempt I have channel 7 the noisiest, and
>>>> if it rains, the picture drops back to black and
>>>> white. I can't raise the anntenna any higher.
>>>> So I wonder will going digital help?
>>>> If the signal is weak and borderline for analogue
>>>> TV, will a digital box pull out anything?
>>> Impossible to say, it's always a case-by-case basis. But generally you
>>> need a decent analog reception to get digital on your existing
>>> antenna.
>> *** It does not follow, that simply because you have a lousy
>> analogue signal, that a digital signal will be the same. In some
>> cases a non-existant analogue signal will result in a digital
>> signal.
>> With digital there is no such thing a s good or bad, You ether
>> have a signal or you don't.
>>
>>> Look here to see where your digital transmitters are located:
>>> http://www.dba.org.au/index.asp?sectionID=22
>>> Sounds like it's time you upgraded your antenna and system
>>> installation anyway. You might even be able to get away with a single
>>> digital antenna.
>> *** Define "Digital" antenna. They don't exist..
>
> A "digital" antenna is one designed only for the channels used by
> digital TV, and those *do* exist. Perhaps they should be called
> "digital band" or something to avoid the stupid semantic arguments.
>
> My "digital" antenna is is not only designed just for the digital
> channels, but it's a log-periodic design too which can give an
> improved signal and better noise immunity in some situations. Much
> smaller and nicer looking than my old "analog" band yagi antennas.
>
> Dave.
>

A log periodic has lower gain than an equivalent sized Yagi. There is
nothing that would make a log periodic better. Having excessive
bandwidth is pointless. The only improvement I could see would be to
have a loop antenna, maybe like a cubicle quad, for lower noise and
slightly higher gain than a Yagi.

Dorfus

[Ext User(David L. Jones)]

On Aug 5, 11:10 am, "bassett" <bass...@bassettskennel.com.au> wrote:
> "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1186124368.203407.118260@d30g2000prg.g ooglegroups.com...
>
> > On Aug 3, 4:36 pm, u235b...@ml1.net wrote:
> >> I have analogue telly at the moment. I use three
> >> antennae for VHF low, VHF high, and UHF going
> >> into a triplexer. Thus I can adjust each one
> >> separately. The VHF high (for 7, 9, and 10)
> >> is the problem,
>
> *** that's because 7 & 9 are UHF
>
> probably because the channel 10
>
> >> transmitter is in a different direction to 7 and 9.
> >> I have moved the antenna all over the place, but
> >> can't get a good picture on all three. After
> >> last attempt I have channel 7 the noisiest, and
> >> if it rains, the picture drops back to black and
> >> white. I can't raise the anntenna any higher.
> >> So I wonder will going digital help?
> >> If the signal is weak and borderline for analogue
> >> TV, will a digital box pull out anything?
>
> > Impossible to say, it's always a case-by-case basis. But generally you
> > need a decent analog reception to get digital on your existing
> > antenna.
>
> *** It does not follow, that simply because you have a lousy
> analogue signal, that a digital signal will be the same. In some
> cases a non-existant analogue signal will result in a digital
> signal.
> With digital there is no such thing a s good or bad, You ether
> have a signal or you don't.
>
> > Look here to see where your digital transmitters are located:
> >http://www.dba.org.au/index.asp?sectionID=22
>
> > Sounds like it's time you upgraded your antenna and system
> > installation anyway. You might even be able to get away with a single
> > digital antenna.
>
> *** Define "Digital" antenna. They don't exist..

A "digital" antenna is one designed only for the channels used by
digital TV, and those *do* exist. Perhaps they should be called
"digital band" or something to avoid the stupid semantic arguments.

My "digital" antenna is is not only designed just for the digital
channels, but it's a log-periodic design too which can give an
improved signal and better noise immunity in some situations. Much
smaller and nicer looking than my old "analog" band yagi antennas.

Dave.

[Ext User(100246.2055@compuserve.com)]

> > "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1186124368.203407.118260@d30g2000prg.g ooglegroups.com...
>
> > > On Aug 3, 4:36 pm, u235b...@ml1.net wrote:
> > >> I have analogue telly at the moment. I use three
> > >> antennae for VHF low, VHF high, and UHF going
> > >> into a triplexer. Thus I can adjust each one
> > >> separately. The VHF high (for 7, 9, and 10)
> > >> is the problem,

There is simply no correlation between Analogue and Digital signals
so the digital results depend on many other things than what
your analogue signals are like.

As a generalisation if you have a snowy analogue signal with
ghosts then the probability is that you will get digital.

The original poster does not say which city he is in but 7 and 10
analogue come from the same site in Sydney with 9 analogue from
another site and ABC from the 3rd Gore Hill site.
9 digital comes from the same site as the 9 analogue signals
while 7 and 10 digital come from the same site as the analogue at
times and from the 9 site at others.
ABC digital comes from the same site as the analogue channel 2
and SBS analogue comes from Gore Hill while the digital usually
comes from the 7 10 site.

As far as Basset's assertion that 7 and 9 are UHF thats patent
rubbish.

It will be instructive if the poster tells us which city he is in and
then we may be able to give some real advise instead of the useless
answers so far.

[Ext User(John Tserkezis)]

bassett wrote:

> And some people will tell you, that it's imposable to have a "too"
> strong signal, it's also arguable , that modern Tuners are self
> regulating in that regard.. BUT unlike analogue, we have "Forward
> Error Correction " which examens the signal long before it reaches the
> Tuner, Would you not agree.

While FEC plays a part, if the front end is swamped, you're going to corrupt
the signal to the point that FEC isn't going to have much of a chance to do
anything.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

[Ext User(bassett)]

<100246.2055@compuserve.com> wrote in message
>
> There is simply no correlation between Analogue and Digital signals
> so the digital results depend on many other things than what
> your analogue signals are like.
>
> As a generalisation if you have a snowy analogue signal with
> ghosts then the probability is that you will get digital.
>
> The original poster does not say which city he is in but 7 and 10
> analogue come from the same site in Sydney with 9 analogue from
> another site and ABC from the 3rd Gore Hill site.
> 9 digital comes from the same site as the 9 analogue signals
> while 7 and 10 digital come from the same site as the analogue at
> times and from the 9 site at others.
> ABC digital comes from the same site as the analogue channel 2
> and SBS analogue comes from Gore Hill while the digital usually
> comes from the 7 10 site.
>
> As far as Basset's assertion that 7 and 9 are UHF thats patent
> rubbish.

Most charming, I'm sure, I have a little 60inch tellie in the
kennel,
It has a three way tuner channels 7,.9, SBS are tuned via the UHF
tuner, Channel 10 is VHFH and ABC is VHFL
and the other thing you got incorrect is all my rubbish is patented.
So hands up all those who invited this fuck-wit, to answer.

> It will be instructive if the poster tells us which city he is in and
> then we may be able to give some real advise instead of the useless
> answers so far.

You of cause include your own answer, one would assume
Next,
bassett

[Ext User(bassett)]

"John Tserkezis" <jt@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:46b5a694$0$19339$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> bassett wrote:
>
>> And some people will tell you, that it's imposable to have a "too"
>> strong signal, it's also arguable , that modern Tuners are self
>> regulating in that regard.. BUT unlike analogue, we have "Forward
>> Error Correction " which examens the signal long before it reaches
>> the Tuner, Would you not agree.
>
> While FEC plays a part, if the front end is swamped, you're going to
> corrupt the signal to the point that FEC isn't going to have much of a
> chance to do anything.
> --
> Linux Registered User # 302622
> <http://counter.li.org>

What you forgot to say, was that if and when the front end is
swamped, [presumably with signal strength, or overload ?? ] the FEC
will be unable to cope and simply shut down. After all that's what
it's there for, and please remember we are using a 3/4
comfigeration not a 7/8,
bassett

[Ext User(Doug Jewell)]

"bassett" <bassett@bassettskennel.com.au> wrote in message
news:46b5aba8$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>>
>> As far as Basset's assertion that 7 and 9 are UHF thats patent
>> rubbish.
>
> Most charming, I'm sure, I have a little 60inch tellie in the
> kennel,
> It has a three way tuner channels 7,.9, SBS are tuned via the UHF
> tuner, Channel 10 is VHFH and ABC is VHFL
> and the other thing you got incorrect is all my rubbish is patented.
> So hands up all those who invited this fuck-wit, to answer.
which means in your location you are tuning to UHF repeaters of 7 & 9. This
may be the case in your location, and is the case in most of regional
australia, but in every eastern capital (and possibly adelaide & perth but
haven't checked), 7 & 9 are broadcast on channels 7 & 9 respectively which
are located in the VHF-H band.
In some locations where geographical conditions prevent reception on the
main channels, repeater stations have been set up on UHF channels. They
can't set up the repeaters on the main channel because it would cause
interference. The actual frequencies used will vary depending on what
channels are available in the location and depending on what channels are
used by adjacent regional stations.
>
>> It will be instructive if the poster tells us which city he is in and
>> then we may be able to give some real advise instead of the useless
>> answers so far.
>
> You of cause include your own answer, one would assume
> Next,
> bassett
>
>
>

[Ext User(bassett)]

wrote:
>> "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote in A "digital" antenna is one
>> designed only for the channels used by
>> digital TV, and those *do* exist. Perhaps they should be called
>> "digital band" or something to avoid the stupid semantic arguments.
>>
>> My "digital" antenna is is not only designed just for the digital
>> channels, but it's a log-periodic design too which can give an
>> improved signal and better noise immunity in some situations. Much
>> smaller and nicer looking than my old "analog" band yagi antennas.
>>
>> Dave.
>>

Just perhaps you could provide a link to your "digital" antenna, then
we can all evaluate it.
bassett

[Ext User(Phil Allison)]

"bassett"
>
> Just perhaps you could provide a link to your "digital" antenna,
> then we can all evaluate it.
>

** Dave did that - about 2 weeks ago on " aus.electronics ".


" Also, my "digital" antenna is a log-periodic type, like this one:
http://www.australiandigitaltv.com/accessories/digitalantenna.htm

Dave. "




......... Phil