Progress on the unofficial external bypass of Sydney

[Ext User(Athol)]

Well, I figure that even if nobody else is interested, Damo might be.

I've updated this:

http://cust.idl.com.au/athol/download/External%20Sydney%20Ring%20Road.pdf

and these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulburn-Oberon_Road
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bylong_Valley_Way

In summary, there will be a fully sealed route from the New England Hwy
at Muswellbrook to the Hume Highway near Goulburn via Bathurst by mid
2010. One old timber bridge has already been replaced, and two other
single lane bridges are scheduled for replacement by mid 2010. The
distance is comparable to going via Sydney, and the traffic and scenery
are far superior. :-)

The bad news is that there are no plans to do anything about upgrading
the Wombeyan Caves Road. There is a 630m long bit at the Mittagong end
that will get resealed and another existing sealed section about 2.5km
long where there will be "formation and seal widening". Springhill Rd
to Soapy Flat Rd, which is also near the Mittagong end...

They estimated the cost of replacing chainwire fence with guardrail on
the really crap section of Wombeyan Caves Rd (note no actual road
improvement) at $6M for 26.6km, but that didn't make Wingecarribee Shire
Council's priority list for 2007/08 to 2010/11.

Hmm. I should update the wiki page on Wombeyan Caves Rd.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Ext User(phil_herring@yahoo.com.au)]

On Nov 11, 11:29 pm, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> The bad news is that there are no plans to do anything about upgrading
> the Wombeyan Caves Road.

Is that so bad? It'd be a shame if the Wombeyan Caves Road became just
another stretch of country blacktop.


-- Phil

[Ext User(Diesel Damo)]

On Nov 11, 11:29 pm, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Well, I figure that even if nobody else is interested, Damo might be.
>
> I've updated this:
>
> http://cust.idl.com.au/athol/download/External%20Sydney%20Ring%20Road...
>
> and these:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulburn-Oberon_Roadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bylong_Valley_Way
>
> In summary, there will be a fully sealed route from the New England Hwy
> at Muswellbrook to the Hume Highway near Goulburn via Bathurst by mid
> 2010. One old timber bridge has already been replaced, and two other
> single lane bridges are scheduled for replacement by mid 2010. The
> distance is comparable to going via Sydney, and the traffic and scenery
> are far superior. :-)
>
> The bad news is that there are no plans to do anything about upgrading
> the Wombeyan Caves Road. There is a 630m long bit at the Mittagong end
> that will get resealed and another existing sealed section about 2.5km
> long where there will be "formation and seal widening". Springhill Rd
> to Soapy Flat Rd, which is also near the Mittagong end...
>
> They estimated the cost of replacing chainwire fence with guardrail on
> the really crap section of Wombeyan Caves Rd (note no actual road
> improvement) at $6M for 26.6km, but that didn't make Wingecarribee Shire
> Council's priority list for 2007/08 to 2010/11.
>
> Hmm. I should update the wiki page on Wombeyan Caves Rd.
>
> --
> Athol
> <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
> I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

"particularly in view of the finding that the proposal to upgrade
Bell's Line of Road to B-double standard is not economically
feasible."

I always thought they were crazy when I'd hear people talking about
how they're going to do this. You would literally have to move
mountains to fix that road up, and no-one's going to pay for that.

Do you happen to know if anything is happening with the road I live
on? Looking around the area you could be forgiven for thinking they're
getting ready to seal it at least part of the way.

"The only unsealed section remaining as at November 2007 was around
5km long"

So they've done another couple of kays over the last year or so. I
s'pose we'll get there eventually.

"The Wombeyan Caves Road, leading through the Wombeyan Caves reserve
and on to Mittagong starts at the locality of Richlands,"

Also the guy who lives right at that T junction has an old car and
tractor museum. He's the guy who welded up the suspension of the horse
float when it came apart as we approached his place. But I suppose you
can't really put that in the article as it constitutes advertising :-)

[Ext User(Diesel Damo)]

On Nov 11, 11:29 pm, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulburn-Oberon_Road

Also meant to ask you, when they upgrade that bridge that you have
pictured, are they going to do anything about that 90 degree corner
that comes directly after it (to the left of the picture)?

It's so tight it's got a recommended speed of 25km/h, and I've
personally witnessed more than just a few people come flying down that
hill and not realise how dramatically they have to wash off speed for
(a) the bridge, and (b) the tight corner.

Maybe it's because they are temporarily traumatised by the bridge
sounding like it's going to collapse.

[Ext User(Athol)]

Diesel Damo <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> "particularly in view of the finding that the proposal to upgrade
> Bell's Line of Road to B-double standard is not economically
> feasible."

They're still promoting the idea out Bathurst way...

> I always thought they were crazy when I'd hear people talking about
> how they're going to do this. You would literally have to move
> mountains to fix that road up, and no-one's going to pay for that.

It's detailed in the reference in my proposal, which also happens to
be in the wiki article on Bells Line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bells_Line_of_Road

Note that the quality of that article is a little behind that of the
Bylong Valley Way. :-)

> Do you happen to know if anything is happening with the road I live
> on? Looking around the area you could be forgiven for thinking they're
> getting ready to seal it at least part of the way.

No idea. Try searching through Oberon Shire's web site for something
like a strategic plan or such.

It'd be good to have the road sealed from the Goulburn-Oberon Road,
through the T intersection and the forest, even if it didn't make
its way to your driveway. :-)

> "The only unsealed section remaining as at November 2007 was around
> 5km long"

> So they've done another couple of kays over the last year or so. I
> s'pose we'll get there eventually.

An anonymous editor changed the article a few days ago to remove the
other unsealed section. I don't have a reference to show that it is
really done, I'm just assuming that they're right.

> "The Wombeyan Caves Road, leading through the Wombeyan Caves reserve
> and on to Mittagong starts at the locality of Richlands,"

> Also the guy who lives right at that T junction has an old car and
> tractor museum. He's the guy who welded up the suspension of the horse
> float when it came apart as we approached his place. But I suppose you
> can't really put that in the article as it constitutes advertising :-)

Two separate issues here. One is that, if the museum is notable enough,
and that notability can be established by reference to other web sites
and/or books, magazines, etc., it could have its own article. This
would particularly apply if there was something notable about his
collection, such as some particularly rare pieces of equipment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:N

If notability can be established, and you had a list of some of the
equipment that's there, you could link "wikilink" to the articles
about the various pieces of equipment, and wikilink from them back to
the article about the museum. You'd also, of course, add links to
the articles about the roads whose intersection it is at... If there
are rare items in the museum, adding photos of them to the articles
about them, as well as some good photos of the museum could generate
interest in the museum. As long as notability is established, it's a
valid encyclopedia article, not advertising. It also needs to be
written in the style on an encyclopedia, not an ad.

The 2nd issue is that, regardless of whether or not notability can be
established to justify an article in its own right, a photo or two at
the intersection of the roads could be added to the articles about the
roads. There is nothing in the rules to say that the photo has to
avoid the museum, and it might even be reasonable to mention it as a
landmark at the intersection even if it isn't notable enough to have
its own article.

If you have a digital photo, you are completely within your rights to
take some photos in public places like this and upload them to wiki,
preferrably wikipedia commons, as this makes the images available to
all language wikipedias. Creating an account is easy, and even if
you only wanted to upload the photos, I could then add them to the
relevant wikipedia articles.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Ext User(Athol)]

phil_herring@yahoo.com.au <phil_herring@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> On Nov 11, 11:29 pm, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>> The bad news is that there are no plans to do anything about upgrading
>> the Wombeyan Caves Road.

> Is that so bad? It'd be a shame if the Wombeyan Caves Road became just
> another stretch of country blacktop.

I strongly disagree. It'd be great if it was more accessible by being
a 2-lane fully sealed road.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Ext User(Athol)]

Diesel Damo <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> On Nov 11, 11:29 pm, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulburn-Oberon_Road

> Also meant to ask you, when they upgrade that bridge that you have
> pictured, are they going to do anything about that 90 degree corner
> that comes directly after it (to the left of the picture)?

I didn't do the photo, and that isn't one of the bridges that I know
of that is to be replaced.

> It's so tight it's got a recommended speed of 25km/h, and I've
> personally witnessed more than just a few people come flying down that
> hill and not realise how dramatically they have to wash off speed for
> (a) the bridge, and (b) the tight corner.

> Maybe it's because they are temporarily traumatised by the bridge
> sounding like it's going to collapse.

LOL.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Ext User(phil_herring@yahoo.com.au)]

On Nov 11, 11:29 pm, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> The bad news is that there are no plans to do anything about upgrading
> the Wombeyan Caves Road.

Is that so bad? It'd be a shame if the Wombeyan Caves Road became just
another stretch of country blacktop.


-- Phil

[Ext User(Diesel Damo)]

On Nov 11, 11:29 pm, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Well, I figure that even if nobody else is interested, Damo might be.
>
> I've updated this:
>
> http://cust.idl.com.au/athol/download/External%20Sydney%20Ring%20Road...
>
> and these:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulburn-Oberon_Roadhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bylong_Valley_Way
>
> In summary, there will be a fully sealed route from the New England Hwy
> at Muswellbrook to the Hume Highway near Goulburn via Bathurst by mid
> 2010. One old timber bridge has already been replaced, and two other
> single lane bridges are scheduled for replacement by mid 2010. The
> distance is comparable to going via Sydney, and the traffic and scenery
> are far superior. :-)
>
> The bad news is that there are no plans to do anything about upgrading
> the Wombeyan Caves Road. There is a 630m long bit at the Mittagong end
> that will get resealed and another existing sealed section about 2.5km
> long where there will be "formation and seal widening". Springhill Rd
> to Soapy Flat Rd, which is also near the Mittagong end...
>
> They estimated the cost of replacing chainwire fence with guardrail on
> the really crap section of Wombeyan Caves Rd (note no actual road
> improvement) at $6M for 26.6km, but that didn't make Wingecarribee Shire
> Council's priority list for 2007/08 to 2010/11.
>
> Hmm. I should update the wiki page on Wombeyan Caves Rd.
>
> --
> Athol
> <http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
> I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

"particularly in view of the finding that the proposal to upgrade
Bell's Line of Road to B-double standard is not economically
feasible."

I always thought they were crazy when I'd hear people talking about
how they're going to do this. You would literally have to move
mountains to fix that road up, and no-one's going to pay for that.

Do you happen to know if anything is happening with the road I live
on? Looking around the area you could be forgiven for thinking they're
getting ready to seal it at least part of the way.

"The only unsealed section remaining as at November 2007 was around
5km long"

So they've done another couple of kays over the last year or so. I
s'pose we'll get there eventually.

"The Wombeyan Caves Road, leading through the Wombeyan Caves reserve
and on to Mittagong starts at the locality of Richlands,"

Also the guy who lives right at that T junction has an old car and
tractor museum. He's the guy who welded up the suspension of the horse
float when it came apart as we approached his place. But I suppose you
can't really put that in the article as it constitutes advertising :-)

[Ext User(Diesel Damo)]

On Nov 11, 11:29 pm, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulburn-Oberon_Road

Also meant to ask you, when they upgrade that bridge that you have
pictured, are they going to do anything about that 90 degree corner
that comes directly after it (to the left of the picture)?

It's so tight it's got a recommended speed of 25km/h, and I've
personally witnessed more than just a few people come flying down that
hill and not realise how dramatically they have to wash off speed for
(a) the bridge, and (b) the tight corner.

Maybe it's because they are temporarily traumatised by the bridge
sounding like it's going to collapse.

[Ext User(Athol)]

Diesel Damo <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> "particularly in view of the finding that the proposal to upgrade
> Bell's Line of Road to B-double standard is not economically
> feasible."

They're still promoting the idea out Bathurst way...

> I always thought they were crazy when I'd hear people talking about
> how they're going to do this. You would literally have to move
> mountains to fix that road up, and no-one's going to pay for that.

It's detailed in the reference in my proposal, which also happens to
be in the wiki article on Bells Line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bells_Line_of_Road

Note that the quality of that article is a little behind that of the
Bylong Valley Way. :-)

> Do you happen to know if anything is happening with the road I live
> on? Looking around the area you could be forgiven for thinking they're
> getting ready to seal it at least part of the way.

No idea. Try searching through Oberon Shire's web site for something
like a strategic plan or such.

It'd be good to have the road sealed from the Goulburn-Oberon Road,
through the T intersection and the forest, even if it didn't make
its way to your driveway. :-)

> "The only unsealed section remaining as at November 2007 was around
> 5km long"

> So they've done another couple of kays over the last year or so. I
> s'pose we'll get there eventually.

An anonymous editor changed the article a few days ago to remove the
other unsealed section. I don't have a reference to show that it is
really done, I'm just assuming that they're right.

> "The Wombeyan Caves Road, leading through the Wombeyan Caves reserve
> and on to Mittagong starts at the locality of Richlands,"

> Also the guy who lives right at that T junction has an old car and
> tractor museum. He's the guy who welded up the suspension of the horse
> float when it came apart as we approached his place. But I suppose you
> can't really put that in the article as it constitutes advertising :-)

Two separate issues here. One is that, if the museum is notable enough,
and that notability can be established by reference to other web sites
and/or books, magazines, etc., it could have its own article. This
would particularly apply if there was something notable about his
collection, such as some particularly rare pieces of equipment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:N

If notability can be established, and you had a list of some of the
equipment that's there, you could link "wikilink" to the articles
about the various pieces of equipment, and wikilink from them back to
the article about the museum. You'd also, of course, add links to
the articles about the roads whose intersection it is at... If there
are rare items in the museum, adding photos of them to the articles
about them, as well as some good photos of the museum could generate
interest in the museum. As long as notability is established, it's a
valid encyclopedia article, not advertising. It also needs to be
written in the style on an encyclopedia, not an ad.

The 2nd issue is that, regardless of whether or not notability can be
established to justify an article in its own right, a photo or two at
the intersection of the roads could be added to the articles about the
roads. There is nothing in the rules to say that the photo has to
avoid the museum, and it might even be reasonable to mention it as a
landmark at the intersection even if it isn't notable enough to have
its own article.

If you have a digital photo, you are completely within your rights to
take some photos in public places like this and upload them to wiki,
preferrably wikipedia commons, as this makes the images available to
all language wikipedias. Creating an account is easy, and even if
you only wanted to upload the photos, I could then add them to the
relevant wikipedia articles.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Ext User(Athol)]

phil_herring@yahoo.com.au <phil_herring@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> On Nov 11, 11:29 pm, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>> The bad news is that there are no plans to do anything about upgrading
>> the Wombeyan Caves Road.

> Is that so bad? It'd be a shame if the Wombeyan Caves Road became just
> another stretch of country blacktop.

I strongly disagree. It'd be great if it was more accessible by being
a 2-lane fully sealed road.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Ext User(Athol)]

Diesel Damo <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> On Nov 11, 11:29 pm, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goulburn-Oberon_Road

> Also meant to ask you, when they upgrade that bridge that you have
> pictured, are they going to do anything about that 90 degree corner
> that comes directly after it (to the left of the picture)?

I didn't do the photo, and that isn't one of the bridges that I know
of that is to be replaced.

> It's so tight it's got a recommended speed of 25km/h, and I've
> personally witnessed more than just a few people come flying down that
> hill and not realise how dramatically they have to wash off speed for
> (a) the bridge, and (b) the tight corner.

> Maybe it's because they are temporarily traumatised by the bridge
> sounding like it's going to collapse.

LOL.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Ext User(Toby Ponsenby)]

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 12:29:43 +0000, Athol blathered on in :

> $6M for 26.6km

fuck a duck!!

Disgusting 'estimate', and indicative of the absolute complete and utter
CORRUPTION in the road-building 'industry'.


fuck a duck!!

I just looove those signs.
"Construction by Blah blah for blah blah.
Length: 4 Kms.
Estimated cost: 4.6 Quadzillion Dollars.
Completion date: Some month faar into the future"

fuck a duck!!


I should also mention that the same type of scumbags are bilking this
state in advantage taking over pipelines, these days. Way better profit
in that caper.So I did.






--
Toby

[Ext User(Diesel Damo)]

On Nov 12, 4:02 pm, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Diesel Damo <Diesel_...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > "particularly in view of the finding that the proposal to upgrade
> > Bell's Line of Road to B-double standard is not economically
> > feasible."
>
> They're still promoting the idea out Bathurst way...

Yep. Heard it on the radio only a few weeks ago.

> It'd be good to have the road sealed from the Goulburn-Oberon Road,
> through the T intersection and the forest, even if it didn't make
> its way to your driveway. :-)

Aye it would. I used to not want my road sealed, but I've changed my
mind now for two reasons.

1) Family who visit won't have the puncture risks that they currently
do.
2) We won't get the weekend warriors who think they're roughing it
going "off road". I don't like to generalise but fucking hell, anyone
towing a trailer full of dirt bikes has proven to be a complete
arsewipe on every possible occasion.

> > "The only unsealed section remaining as at November 2007 was around
> > 5km long"
> > So they've done another couple of kays over the last year or so. I
> > s'pose we'll get there eventually.
>
> An anonymous editor changed the article a few days ago to remove the
> other unsealed section. I don't have a reference to show that it is
> really done, I'm just assuming that they're right.

Curious. Had I read this earlier I probably would've taken the long
way home to verify it :-)

> > "The Wombeyan Caves Road, leading through the Wombeyan Caves reserve
> > and on to Mittagong starts at the locality of Richlands,"
> > Also the guy who lives right at that T junction has an old car and
> > tractor museum. He's the guy who welded up the suspension of the horse
> > float when it came apart as we approached his place. But I suppose you
> > can't really put that in the article as it constitutes advertising :-)
>
> Two separate issues here. One is that, if the museum is notable enough,
> and that notability can be established by reference to other web sites
> and/or books, magazines, etc., it could have its own article. This
> would particularly apply if there was something notable about his
> collection, such as some particularly rare pieces of equipment.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:N
>
> If notability can be established, and you had a list of some of the
> equipment that's there, you could link "wikilink" to the articles
> about the various pieces of equipment, and wikilink from them back to
> the article about the museum. You'd also, of course, add links to
> the articles about the roads whose intersection it is at... If there
> are rare items in the museum, adding photos of them to the articles
> about them, as well as some good photos of the museum could generate
> interest in the museum. As long as notability is established, it's a
> valid encyclopedia article, not advertising. It also needs to be
> written in the style on an encyclopedia, not an ad.
>
> The 2nd issue is that, regardless of whether or not notability can be
> established to justify an article in its own right, a photo or two at
> the intersection of the roads could be added to the articles about the
> roads. There is nothing in the rules to say that the photo has to
> avoid the museum, and it might even be reasonable to mention it as a
> landmark at the intersection even if it isn't notable enough to have
> its own article.
>
> If you have a digital photo, you are completely within your rights to
> take some photos in public places like this and upload them to wiki,
> preferrably wikipedia commons, as this makes the images available to
> all language wikipedias. Creating an account is easy, and even if
> you only wanted to upload the photos, I could then add them to the
> relevant wikipedia articles.

Wiki sounds interesting to me. My only problem is the only time I'd
get to add to it is during work hours if we're in a "nothing much to
do right now" period. And we just ended one of those periods literally
a couple of days ago.

[Ext User(Athol)]

Toby Ponsenby <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 12:29:43 +0000, Athol blathered on in :

>> $6M for 26.6km

> fuck a duck!!

Like I said, that's *just* replacing wire mesh fence with guardrail.

No straightening of hairpins.

No widening of one-lane wide road.

No sealing of the carriageway surface.

No construction of erosion controls along the road, which happens to
be in a major catchment - Hawkesbury-Nepean IIRC.

> Disgusting 'estimate', and indicative of the absolute complete and utter
> CORRUPTION in the road-building 'industry'.

Compare these numbers.

Bylong Valley Way. Sealing of 32km, including widening of formation
and realignment as required. $4.1M, consisting $2M federal funds,
$1.2M from the local council and 900K from the NSW RTA.

That's not much above the rule of thumb that the road construction
engineer from Queensland posted here a few years ago (yes, I've
forgotten his name).

Now compare that to the one between Goulburn and Oberon.

Reconstruct and seal 5km. $2.13M, consisting $710K from the NSW
RTA and $1.42M from the local council.

I'm seriously hoping that they're working on a lot more than just
the unsealed 5km stretch for that money!

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Ext User(Toby Ponsenby)]

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 12:29:43 +0000, Athol blathered on in :

> $6M for 26.6km

fuck a duck!!

Disgusting 'estimate', and indicative of the absolute complete and utter
CORRUPTION in the road-building 'industry'.


fuck a duck!!

I just looove those signs.
"Construction by Blah blah for blah blah.
Length: 4 Kms.
Estimated cost: 4.6 Quadzillion Dollars.
Completion date: Some month faar into the future"

fuck a duck!!


I should also mention that the same type of scumbags are bilking this
state in advantage taking over pipelines, these days. Way better profit
in that caper.So I did.






--
Toby

[Ext User(Athol)]

Diesel Damo <Diesel_4WD@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> On Nov 12, 4:02 pm, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Diesel Damo <Diesel_...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>> > "particularly in view of the finding that the proposal to upgrade
>> > Bell's Line of Road to B-double standard is not economically
>> > feasible."

>> They're still promoting the idea out Bathurst way...

> Yep. Heard it on the radio only a few weeks ago.

One of the letters I got in response to my email requesting comment on
my proposal was from the group promoting it, which happens to be based
inside Bathurst council...

>> It'd be good to have the road sealed from the Goulburn-Oberon Road,
>> through the T intersection and the forest, even if it didn't make
>> its way to your driveway. :-)

> Aye it would. I used to not want my road sealed, but I've changed my
> mind now for two reasons.

> 1) Family who visit won't have the puncture risks that they currently
> do.
> 2) We won't get the weekend warriors who think they're roughing it
> going "off road". I don't like to generalise but fucking hell, anyone
> towing a trailer full of dirt bikes has proven to be a complete
> arsewipe on every possible occasion.

I'd add to that:
3) Faster travel times & better economy.
4) More consistent and safer road conditions.

>> An anonymous editor changed the article a few days ago to remove the
>> other unsealed section. I don't have a reference to show that it is
>> really done, I'm just assuming that they're right.

> Curious. Had I read this earlier I probably would've taken the long
> way home to verify it :-)

Ya get that. :-)

>> If you have a digital photo, you are completely within your rights to
>> take some photos in public places like this and upload them to wiki,
>> preferrably wikipedia commons, as this makes the images available to
>> all language wikipedias. Creating an account is easy, and even if
>> you only wanted to upload the photos, I could then add them to the
>> relevant wikipedia articles.

> Wiki sounds interesting to me. My only problem is the only time I'd
> get to add to it is during work hours if we're in a "nothing much to
> do right now" period. And we just ended one of those periods literally
> a couple of days ago.

Fair enough. Contributing solely by taking photos and uploading them
with enough description text for me or others to be able to use them in
the relevant articles would be a significant contribution considering
where you are and where you travel. Half a dozen photos from your area
would make a noticable improvement to local articles.

Compare the Bylong Valley Way article, where I've been and taken a pile
of photos, to the Bells Line of Road article. Huge difference.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Ext User(Diesel Damo)]

On Nov 12, 4:02 pm, Athol <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Diesel Damo <Diesel_...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > "particularly in view of the finding that the proposal to upgrade
> > Bell's Line of Road to B-double standard is not economically
> > feasible."
>
> They're still promoting the idea out Bathurst way...

Yep. Heard it on the radio only a few weeks ago.

> It'd be good to have the road sealed from the Goulburn-Oberon Road,
> through the T intersection and the forest, even if it didn't make
> its way to your driveway. :-)

Aye it would. I used to not want my road sealed, but I've changed my
mind now for two reasons.

1) Family who visit won't have the puncture risks that they currently
do.
2) We won't get the weekend warriors who think they're roughing it
going "off road". I don't like to generalise but fucking hell, anyone
towing a trailer full of dirt bikes has proven to be a complete
arsewipe on every possible occasion.

> > "The only unsealed section remaining as at November 2007 was around
> > 5km long"
> > So they've done another couple of kays over the last year or so. I
> > s'pose we'll get there eventually.
>
> An anonymous editor changed the article a few days ago to remove the
> other unsealed section. I don't have a reference to show that it is
> really done, I'm just assuming that they're right.

Curious. Had I read this earlier I probably would've taken the long
way home to verify it :-)

> > "The Wombeyan Caves Road, leading through the Wombeyan Caves reserve
> > and on to Mittagong starts at the locality of Richlands,"
> > Also the guy who lives right at that T junction has an old car and
> > tractor museum. He's the guy who welded up the suspension of the horse
> > float when it came apart as we approached his place. But I suppose you
> > can't really put that in the article as it constitutes advertising :-)
>
> Two separate issues here. One is that, if the museum is notable enough,
> and that notability can be established by reference to other web sites
> and/or books, magazines, etc., it could have its own article. This
> would particularly apply if there was something notable about his
> collection, such as some particularly rare pieces of equipment.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:N
>
> If notability can be established, and you had a list of some of the
> equipment that's there, you could link "wikilink" to the articles
> about the various pieces of equipment, and wikilink from them back to
> the article about the museum. You'd also, of course, add links to
> the articles about the roads whose intersection it is at... If there
> are rare items in the museum, adding photos of them to the articles
> about them, as well as some good photos of the museum could generate
> interest in the museum. As long as notability is established, it's a
> valid encyclopedia article, not advertising. It also needs to be
> written in the style on an encyclopedia, not an ad.
>
> The 2nd issue is that, regardless of whether or not notability can be
> established to justify an article in its own right, a photo or two at
> the intersection of the roads could be added to the articles about the
> roads. There is nothing in the rules to say that the photo has to
> avoid the museum, and it might even be reasonable to mention it as a
> landmark at the intersection even if it isn't notable enough to have
> its own article.
>
> If you have a digital photo, you are completely within your rights to
> take some photos in public places like this and upload them to wiki,
> preferrably wikipedia commons, as this makes the images available to
> all language wikipedias. Creating an account is easy, and even if
> you only wanted to upload the photos, I could then add them to the
> relevant wikipedia articles.

Wiki sounds interesting to me. My only problem is the only time I'd
get to add to it is during work hours if we're in a "nothing much to
do right now" period. And we just ended one of those periods literally
a couple of days ago.

[Ext User(Athol)]

Toby Ponsenby <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 12:29:43 +0000, Athol blathered on in :

>> $6M for 26.6km

> fuck a duck!!

Like I said, that's *just* replacing wire mesh fence with guardrail.

No straightening of hairpins.

No widening of one-lane wide road.

No sealing of the carriageway surface.

No construction of erosion controls along the road, which happens to
be in a major catchment - Hawkesbury-Nepean IIRC.

> Disgusting 'estimate', and indicative of the absolute complete and utter
> CORRUPTION in the road-building 'industry'.

Compare these numbers.

Bylong Valley Way. Sealing of 32km, including widening of formation
and realignment as required. $4.1M, consisting $2M federal funds,
$1.2M from the local council and 900K from the NSW RTA.

That's not much above the rule of thumb that the road construction
engineer from Queensland posted here a few years ago (yes, I've
forgotten his name).

Now compare that to the one between Goulburn and Oberon.

Reconstruct and seal 5km. $2.13M, consisting $710K from the NSW
RTA and $1.42M from the local council.

I'm seriously hoping that they're working on a lot more than just
the unsealed 5km stretch for that money!

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol> Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.