Sydney Morning Herald (November 19, 2007): Networks want to nobblead-skipping

[Ext User(John Tserkezis)]

Vote with your wallets people. Check the functionality before buying where
you can.

<http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/networks-want-to-nobble-fast-forward/2007/11/19/1195321672583.html>

The free-to-air television industry has declared war on ad-skipping personal
video recorders as it prepares to release a free electronic program guide for
the first time.

Despite releasing the guide, the industry is pressuring PVR makers to limit
the advertisement-skipping functions of their products before they are
authorised to access it.

The networks have threatened legal action under Australian copyright law, but
manufacturers say Australia-specific modifications to the
advertisement-skipping features would not be possible as their products are
made for global markets.

To date, PVRs - which allow users to record television shows for later viewing
and skip the ads - have been hamstrung by the lack of a free electronic
program guide (EPG) for scheduling recordings.

Instead, users have to manually enter the time and duration of the show they
want to record based on listing information obtained from elsewhere, such as a
newspaper. Alternatively, third-party services like IceTV compile their own
EPGs independently of the broadcasters, but IceTV requires a paid subscription.

Last Wednesday, the industry body representing local free-to-air networks,
Free TV Australia, announced all networks would be openly broadcasting seven
days worth of program listing information by January 1, 2008, creating
Australia's first free EPG.

It would be receivable "by any digital set-top box, integrated television or
personal video recorder (PVR) that has an EPG function".

Channels Nine and Ten began broadcasting today, while Channel Seven's will
commence on January 1 next year. ABC already broadcasts EPG information.

But that same day, Free TV Australia wrote a letter to the Australian Digital
Suppliers Industry Forum (ADSIF), which represents PVR makers, saying
"broadcasters are not authorising the use of the programs listing data in PVRs
where 'ad-skip' functionality goes beyond a maximum fast forward speed of x60".

The letter was obtained by technology news website iTWire and both ADSIF
coordinator Tim O'Keefe and Free TV Australia confirmed its authenticity.

Free TV's chief executive, Julie Flynn, continued in the letter: "In addition,
the PVR's which display the EPG must employ adequate copy protection measures
to prevent the redistribution of free-to-air content outside the home or on
the internet ... Broadcasters reserve their rights subject to the Commonwealth
Copyright Act 1968, to take legal action at any time for copyright
infringement where program listings are used in contravention of these terms."

Contacted this morning, Mr O'Keefe said he was awaiting clarification on what
Free TV Australia was demanding in its letter.

However, since the EPG data was being broadcast in an unencrypted format,
there was little the industry could do, short of taking legal action, to block
certain PVR models from receiving the data.

"These products that are being made for the Australian market are global
products and the features and the record functionalities within those products
are for global markets, so it's unlikely that there is going to be any
modifications to products on the recording functionality side of PVRs
[specifically] for the Australian market," Mr O'Keefe said.

He said all digital set-top boxes and PVRs sold in the last three years, and
many older models, would automatically receive the EPG information.

"It will receive it automatically - there's nothing you need to do with your
PVR or your television set to receive this information," said Mr O'Keefe.

The free-to-air TV industry, keen to protect its core advertising revenues, is
an arch-enemy of ad-skipping PVRs.

Channel Nine recently tried to shut down IceTV by suing it for copyright
infringement in the federal court, but lost the case in August.

Ironically, Channel Seven has announced it will bring the popular US-made TiVo
PVR to Australia early next year, but it is almost assured the network will
greatly limit its ad-skipping features.

Representatives from Free TV Australia were unavailable for an interview this
morning but said in a statement the letter to ADSIF was not "contradictory"
and "simply asserts copyright in the EPG data".

"Broadcasters will be meeting with manufacturers to discuss the terms on which
they authorise the use of the data," the statement said.

--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

[Ext User(fish..)]

In article <47411b28$0$31985$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
jt@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid says...
> Vote with your wallets people. Check the functionality before buying where
> you can.
>
> <http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/networks-want-to-nobble-fast-forward/2007/11/19/1195321672583.html>
>
> The free-to-air television industry has declared war on ad-skipping personal
> video recorders as it prepares to release a free electronic program guide for
> the first time.
>
> Despite releasing the guide, the industry is pressuring PVR makers to limit
> the advertisement-skipping functions of their products before they are
> authorised to access it.
>
> The networks have threatened legal action under Australian copyright law, but
> manufacturers say Australia-specific modifications to the
> advertisement-skipping features would not be possible as their products are
> made for global markets.
>
> To date, PVRs - which allow users to record television shows for later viewing
> and skip the ads - have been hamstrung by the lack of a free electronic
> program guide (EPG) for scheduling recordings.
>
> Instead, users have to manually enter the time and duration of the show they
> want to record based on listing information obtained from elsewhere, such as a
> newspaper. Alternatively, third-party services like IceTV compile their own
> EPGs independently of the broadcasters, but IceTV requires a paid subscription.
>
> Last Wednesday, the industry body representing local free-to-air networks,
> Free TV Australia, announced all networks would be openly broadcasting seven
> days worth of program listing information by January 1, 2008, creating
> Australia's first free EPG.
>
> It would be receivable "by any digital set-top box, integrated television or
> personal video recorder (PVR) that has an EPG function".
>
> Channels Nine and Ten began broadcasting today, while Channel Seven's will
> commence on January 1 next year. ABC already broadcasts EPG information.
>
> But that same day, Free TV Australia wrote a letter to the Australian Digital
> Suppliers Industry Forum (ADSIF), which represents PVR makers, saying
> "broadcasters are not authorising the use of the programs listing data in PVRs
> where 'ad-skip' functionality goes beyond a maximum fast forward speed of x60".
>
> The letter was obtained by technology news website iTWire and both ADSIF
> coordinator Tim O'Keefe and Free TV Australia confirmed its authenticity.
>
> Free TV's chief executive, Julie Flynn, continued in the letter: "In addition,
> the PVR's which display the EPG must employ adequate copy protection measures
> to prevent the redistribution of free-to-air content outside the home or on
> the internet ... Broadcasters reserve their rights subject to the Commonwealth
> Copyright Act 1968, to take legal action at any time for copyright
> infringement where program listings are used in contravention of these terms."
>
> Contacted this morning, Mr O'Keefe said he was awaiting clarification on what
> Free TV Australia was demanding in its letter.
>
> However, since the EPG data was being broadcast in an unencrypted format,
> there was little the industry could do, short of taking legal action, to block
> certain PVR models from receiving the data.
>
> "These products that are being made for the Australian market are global
> products and the features and the record functionalities within those products
> are for global markets, so it's unlikely that there is going to be any
> modifications to products on the recording functionality side of PVRs
> [specifically] for the Australian market," Mr O'Keefe said.
>
> He said all digital set-top boxes and PVRs sold in the last three years, and
> many older models, would automatically receive the EPG information.
>
> "It will receive it automatically - there's nothing you need to do with your
> PVR or your television set to receive this information," said Mr O'Keefe.
>
> The free-to-air TV industry, keen to protect its core advertising revenues, is
> an arch-enemy of ad-skipping PVRs.
>
> Channel Nine recently tried to shut down IceTV by suing it for copyright
> infringement in the federal court, but lost the case in August.
>
> Ironically, Channel Seven has announced it will bring the popular US-made TiVo
> PVR to Australia early next year, but it is almost assured the network will
> greatly limit its ad-skipping features.
>
> Representatives from Free TV Australia were unavailable for an interview this
> morning but said in a statement the letter to ADSIF was not "contradictory"
> and "simply asserts copyright in the EPG data".
>
> "Broadcasters will be meeting with manufacturers to discuss the terms on which
> they authorise the use of the data," the statement said.
>
>


Well considering there's no such thing as an 'ad skipping PVR' this
article is just bullshit. And toppy's (tf5000's) have been receiving
'free' EPG updates for about 5 years if used with the right TAPS

[Ext User(Jonathan Wilson)]

The information is broadcast over the air. There is nothing to "authorize"
or "not authorize". I hope the PVR companies tell the networks to get
stuffed (any PVR worth its salt should already be working just fine for
recording from those channels that currently broadcast a full EPG)

[Ext User(Netmask)]

"Jonathan Wilson" <jfwfreo@tpgi.com.au> wrote in message
news:47412582$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> The information is broadcast over the air. There is nothing to "authorize"
> or "not authorize". I hope the PVR companies tell the networks to get
> stuffed (any PVR worth its salt should already be working just fine for
> recording from those channels that currently broadcast a full EPG)

What the networks are thinking about is stuff you have recorded to play back
at a later time or date - you certainly can skip commercials then on a
Topfield or BeyonWiz PVR. I'm sure there are many others brands as well
around. Live TV is another story obvious you can't skip in real time (not
unless you have a Tardis model...) Even if you use time shift you would need
to get around 15 minutes ahead to start skipping and after an hour you'd be
back to hard reality. Topfield is pretty much an open system that
enthusiasts will be able to write firmware hacks no matter what eventuates -
Pandora's box is well and truly open. Anyway there are several free
community based epg download sites. The only live TV I watch is the news
(sometimes <g>)

[Ext User(Greg)]

Whats the point of an epg if the channels never stick to there scheduled
times anyway. Your always going to have to change the start and end times
anyway. EPG on my topfiels SD set top box and PVR isn't that user friendly.
But on the Philips HD set top box its quiet user friendly and easy to
negotiate.

As the article says the fastest fast foward speed is x6 which is what my
Topfield PVR can do with a preview. But if I press play I can quickly jump
to any position in the video without a preview or even quickly skip
commercials without a preview.


"Jonathan Wilson" <jfwfreo@tpgi.com.au> wrote in message
news:47412582$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> The information is broadcast over the air. There is nothing to "authorize"
> or "not authorize". I hope the PVR companies tell the networks to get
> stuffed (any PVR worth its salt should already be working just fine for
> recording from those channels that currently broadcast a full EPG)

[Ext User(John Tserkezis)]

Greg wrote:

> Whats the point of an epg if the channels never stick to there scheduled
> times anyway. Your always going to have to change the start and end times
> anyway. EPG on my topfiels SD set top box and PVR isn't that user friendly.
> But on the Philips HD set top box its quiet user friendly and easy to
> negotiate.

True. It would however come into its own if you could customise the timing
by starting earlier and ending later (forcefully). I'm guessing that none do
this yet...
Aside from the easy selection of material, features such as key word
searches on program names are something that a working EPG makes possible.

> As the article says the fastest fast foward speed is x6 which is what my
> Topfield PVR can do with a preview. But if I press play I can quickly jump
> to any position in the video without a preview or even quickly skip
> commercials without a preview.

I'm guessing this is very much box dependant. My JVC HD-HDS1 (bug riddled
though), can do up to 360x fast forward. And has the network hated feature of
skipping 30 seconds forward with one button press (instant response on that).

When this one dies, (I'm hoping it will time its death at the last nail in
the analogue coffin), I'm going for a PC based box and three tuners. And I'm
hoping by that stage that the software would be customisable enough to do what
I want with timing variations.

--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

[Ext User(Poxy)]

John Tserkezis wrote:
> Greg wrote:
>
>> Whats the point of an epg if the channels never stick to there
>> scheduled times anyway. Your always going to have to change the
>> start and end times anyway. EPG on my topfiels SD set top box and
>> PVR isn't that user friendly. But on the Philips HD set top box its
>> quiet user friendly and easy to negotiate.
>
> True. It would however come into its own if you could customise
> the timing by starting earlier and ending later (forcefully). I'm
> guessing that none do this yet...
> Aside from the easy selection of material, features such as key word
> searches on program names are something that a working EPG makes
> possible.

Seeing as you're a Linux neeeerd, you should use MythTV. It has a couple of
different options for EPG collection - all which work very well,
keyword-based recording schedules so you pick up shows you like even if you
didn't know they were back on, and the ability to set time offsets (in both
directions) for start and end times.

[Ext User(Bob Bain)]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:09:09 +1100, John Tserkezis
<jt@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote:

> I'm guessing this is very much box dependant. My JVC HD-HDS1 (bug riddled
>though), can do up to 360x fast forward. And has the network hated feature of
>skipping 30 seconds forward with one button press (instant response on that).

My Topfield 7000 HD PVR with the latest firmware can do up to 1500x
fast forward. (I just tried it with an hour long file). If you keep
pressing the button the speed keeps increasing and at this speed the
recording has finished. There's also various parameters you can
select that suggest you can change the speed of skips and other things
I haven't come to terms with yet.

I'll need to record more before I have a chance to see if it can
reach 10000x fast forward.

Ice TV issued an email statement to subscribers (including Trial
subscribers such as myself) this afternoon which reads..

-------------------

Important IceTV Service Announcement

Soon you will be able to enjoy the added programming that the 3 major
Commercial TV Networks (7, 9 & 10) intend to provide on their new High
Definition TV channels, which are due to be officially launched
shortly.

Although this is of course great news for TV watchers as a whole...
unfortunately IceTV still doesn’t receive any support from the major
networks or from FreeTV Australia. As a result, there will be a short
delay and we won’t be able to provide EPG data for these new channels
until 2-3 weeks after the start of full strength programming.

This is mainly due to possible legal ramifications imposed by the
networks and the method we use in order to provide the IceTV service.
In most other countries around the world, TV networks openly support
independent third party EPG providers like IceTV.

We apologise for any inconvenience this short delay in coverage may
cause & thank you all in advance for your patience.

In other news, FreeTV Australia last week announced that the major
commercial TV networks have agreed to start providing electronic
program guide data via the broadcast signal. This is good news for
those with an integrated TV or simple set-top-box...

However for most PVR users... this means nothing. Based on the
information IceTV has been given by FreeTV Australia, it seems there
are still no plans to provide the EPG data to any digital recording
devices that have an in-built 30 second Skip Button or fast forward
speeds of 60x or more. That accounts for about 99% of IceTV users.

We at IceTV believe that you should be able to enjoy & freely use all
the intended features of the hardware device you yourself purchased
and not be restricted in how and when you watch your favourite TV
shows. One of the greatest benefits of being an IceTV subscriber is
that you are in complete control. Watch, pause, rewind or skip through
anything you've recorded. Snack on TV or sit down for a full feast.

Because we provide our service and our own independent 7-day EPG via
broadband and not over the air, you are able to enjoy all the other
value-added benefits that we provide. These features include IceTV
Remote, the IceTV Widget, MyGuide and the soon to be released IceTV
Video, none of which are available when using a basic EPG supplied via
the broadcast signal. For more information on IceTV and the unique
features & services we provide, click here.

We are in constant communication with representatives from the
different manufacturers we are associated with and together we are
carefully looking into the options available to us. As always, we will
be putting our current IceTV subscriber's and the 'average consumer'
first before making any decision.

If the cons outweigh the pros for the end user in terms of experience
and functionality... then we will continue to offer the feature packed
service that we offer today and remain the leading independent third
party EPG provider in Australia.

Regards,
IceTV.

URLS provided in the HTML message
(contained in paragraph 8)

http://www.icetv.com.au/cgi-bin/webpimp.cgi (ICE TV Remote)
http://www.icetv.com.au/widgetabout.shtml (ICE TV Widgets)
http://iwatchthis.com.au/about (My Guide)
http://www.icetv.com.au/news/?cat=17 (ICE TV Video)
http://www.icetv.com.au/about.shtml ("click here")

[Ext User(Bob Bain)]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:44:06 +1100, I <++@tpg.com.au> wrote:

> My Topfield 7000 HD PVR with the latest firmware can do up to 1500x
>fast forward. (I just tried it with an hour long file). If you keep
>pressing the button the speed keeps increasing and at this speed the
>recording has finished. There's also various parameters you can
>select that suggest you can change the speed of skips and other things
>I haven't come to terms with yet.

> I'll need to record more before I have a chance to see if it can
>reach 10000x fast forward.

> Ice TV issued an email statement to subscribers (including Trial
>subscribers such as myself) this afternoon which reads..

One of the URLs points to an ad for the Beyonowiz P1

http://www.icetv.com.au/cgi-bin/webpage.cgi?op=products&type=details&section_type=pvr&product_cat_id=17&product_id=99

Beyonwiz DP-P1 Dual HD Tuner PVR with 200GB Hard Drive & 12 month
subscription to IceTV $1099

Another points to the Beyonwiz DP-S1

http://www.icetv.com.au/cgi-bin/webpage.cgi?op=products&type=details&section_type=pvr&product_cat_id=17&product_id=97

Beyonwiz DP-S1 Dual HD Tuner PVR with 200GB Hard Drive, W-LAN & DVD
player & 12 month subscription to IceTV $1499

From what I'm reading between the lines is that devices such as this
will be able to take content from the Internet and send it via the ICE
TV service to such boxes (pay tv ?) which I guess isn't the sort of
competition "free to air" TV stations are looking for.

I guess this is a "war" and to be honest I'm not sure which side I'm
on (consumer logic dictates I get the most and the best and the most
for the cheapest possible price - preferably $0.00).

[Ext User(Bob Bain)]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:44:06 +1100, Bob Bain <++@tpg.com.au> wrote:

> My Topfield 7000 HD PVR with the latest firmware can do up to 1500x
>fast forward. (I just tried it with an hour long file). If you keep
>pressing the button the speed keeps increasing and at this speed the
>recording has finished. There's also various parameters you can
>select that suggest you can change the speed of skips and other things
>I haven't come to terms with yet.

I bought this unit a short while ago and rambled on about the
difficulty I was having upgrading from the March 2007 firmware that
the unit is currently being retailed with.

Here is what ICE TV have to say about the May firmware ... it
includes a change that permits access to the ICE TV guide.

http://www.icetv.com.au/news/?p=25#more-25

May 18th, 2007

Great News - after a long and patient wait - we can now confirm that
the latest firmware (software version) released from Topfield for
their new TF7000HDPVRt comes with support for IceTV’s 7-day TV Guide
(EPG).

We have tested the latest firmware released on 17th of May by Topfield
and although there are a couple of very minor fixes needed, we are
happy with what we have seen overall.

Users of the TF7000 can enjoy all the benefits of a complete 7-day
interactive TV guide at the push of a button. Instead of having to set
the time, date, channel and duration to manually set any recording ,
you simply highlight the show using the onscreen TV Guide and press
‘record’.

=========================

As previously mentioned in posting to USENET I purchased the demo
unit at Bing Lee which a Topfield rep had updated to the May 17th
firmware. The salesman at Bing Lee wasn't aware how limited the
functionality of the "floor stock" with the March 2007 firmware was
and was happy to learn something - so spent over an hour attempting to
upgrade "floor stock" to the latest firmware using the instructions I
had downloaded from the Internet. We had no success.

I trust this is/was just a "glitch" and not some inbuilt limitation
designed to appease others - such as regulators or those with vested
interests in impeding "progress"...

I am now using the September 2007 firmware.

[Ext User(Vote out Malcolm Turnbull)]

John Tserkezis wrote:
> Vote with your wallets people. Check the functionality before buying
> where you can.
>
> <http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/networks-want-to-nobble-fast-forward/2007/11/19/1195321672583.html>
>
>
> The free-to-air television industry has declared war on ad-skipping
> personal video recorders as it prepares to release a free electronic
> program guide for the first time.
>
> Despite releasing the guide, the industry is pressuring PVR makers to
> limit the advertisement-skipping functions of their products before they
> are authorised to access it.
>
> The networks have threatened legal action under Australian copyright
> law, but manufacturers say Australia-specific modifications to the
> advertisement-skipping features would not be possible as their products
> are made for global markets.
>
> To date, PVRs - which allow users to record television shows for later
> viewing and skip the ads - have been hamstrung by the lack of a free
> electronic program guide (EPG) for scheduling recordings.
>
> Instead, users have to manually enter the time and duration of the show
> they want to record based on listing information obtained from
> elsewhere, such as a newspaper. Alternatively, third-party services like
> IceTV compile their own EPGs independently of the broadcasters, but
> IceTV requires a paid subscription.
>
> Last Wednesday, the industry body representing local free-to-air
> networks, Free TV Australia, announced all networks would be openly
> broadcasting seven days worth of program listing information by January
> 1, 2008, creating Australia's first free EPG.
>
> It would be receivable "by any digital set-top box, integrated
> television or personal video recorder (PVR) that has an EPG function".
>
> Channels Nine and Ten began broadcasting today, while Channel Seven's
> will commence on January 1 next year. ABC already broadcasts EPG
> information.
>
> But that same day, Free TV Australia wrote a letter to the Australian
> Digital Suppliers Industry Forum (ADSIF), which represents PVR makers,
> saying "broadcasters are not authorising the use of the programs listing
> data in PVRs where 'ad-skip' functionality goes beyond a maximum fast
> forward speed of x60".
>
> The letter was obtained by technology news website iTWire and both ADSIF
> coordinator Tim O'Keefe and Free TV Australia confirmed its authenticity.
>
> Free TV's chief executive, Julie Flynn, continued in the letter: "In
> addition, the PVR's which display the EPG must employ adequate copy
> protection measures to prevent the redistribution of free-to-air content
> outside the home or on the internet ... Broadcasters reserve their
> rights subject to the Commonwealth Copyright Act 1968, to take legal
> action at any time for copyright infringement where program listings are
> used in contravention of these terms."
>
> Contacted this morning, Mr O'Keefe said he was awaiting clarification on
> what Free TV Australia was demanding in its letter.
>
> However, since the EPG data was being broadcast in an unencrypted
> format, there was little the industry could do, short of taking legal
> action, to block certain PVR models from receiving the data.
>
> "These products that are being made for the Australian market are global
> products and the features and the record functionalities within those
> products are for global markets, so it's unlikely that there is going to
> be any modifications to products on the recording functionality side of
> PVRs [specifically] for the Australian market," Mr O'Keefe said.
>
> He said all digital set-top boxes and PVRs sold in the last three years,
> and many older models, would automatically receive the EPG information.
>
> "It will receive it automatically - there's nothing you need to do with
> your PVR or your television set to receive this information," said Mr
> O'Keefe.
>
> The free-to-air TV industry, keen to protect its core advertising
> revenues, is an arch-enemy of ad-skipping PVRs.
>
> Channel Nine recently tried to shut down IceTV by suing it for copyright
> infringement in the federal court, but lost the case in August.
>
> Ironically, Channel Seven has announced it will bring the popular
> US-made TiVo PVR to Australia early next year, but it is almost assured
> the network will greatly limit its ad-skipping features.
>
> Representatives from Free TV Australia were unavailable for an interview
> this morning but said in a statement the letter to ADSIF was not
> "contradictory" and "simply asserts copyright in the EPG data".
>
> "Broadcasters will be meeting with manufacturers to discuss the terms on
> which they authorise the use of the data," the statement said.
>
You could just hack the Tivo FUCK OFF Channel 7

[Ext User(John Tserkezis)]

Poxy wrote:

> Seeing as you're a Linux neeeerd, you should use MythTV. It has a couple of
> different options for EPG collection - all which work very well,

And they have for a while. A real working system that the powers that be
have been promising for years now.

As far as "legitimate" options, forget it. With the network goings-on so
far, I don't see that they're not going to allow for it anytime soon anyway.

> keyword-based recording schedules so you pick up shows you like even if you
> didn't know they were back on, and the ability to set time offsets (in both
> directions) for start and end times.

I've only seen a very early version some time back. I'm guessing it's a
little premature to fork out for the hardware now even for testing, as I have
something that functions (albeit single tuner). So it looks like I'll be
doing my homework again when that falls over eventually, or I get sick of the
networks shenanigans whichever comes first.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

[Ext User(John Tserkezis)]

Vote out Malcolm Turnbull wrote:

> You could just hack the Tivo FUCK OFF Channel 7

Channel Seven isn't the only one.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

[Ext User(Ian Galbraith)]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:09:09 +1100, John Tserkezis wrote:

> Greg wrote:
>
>> Whats the point of an epg if the channels never stick to there scheduled
>> times anyway. Your always going to have to change the start and end times
>> anyway. EPG on my topfiels SD set top box and PVR isn't that user friendly.
>> But on the Philips HD set top box its quiet user friendly and easy to
>> negotiate.
>
> True. It would however come into its own if you could customise the timing
> by starting earlier and ending later (forcefully). I'm guessing that none do
> this yet...

What about simply adding padding on recordings? Thats what I do through
Webscheduler.

> Aside from the easy selection of material, features such as key word
> searches on program names are something that a working EPG makes possible.

Yup, it makes it very easy.

>> As the article says the fastest fast foward speed is x6 which is what my
>> Topfield PVR can do with a preview. But if I press play I can quickly jump
>> to any position in the video without a preview or even quickly skip
>> commercials without a preview.
>
> I'm guessing this is very much box dependant. My JVC HD-HDS1 (bug riddled
> though), can do up to 360x fast forward. And has the network hated feature of
> skipping 30 seconds forward with one button press (instant response on that).

My Z500 has 30 sec skips so it makes it easy to avoid ads, nothing to do
with the EPG though.

> When this one dies, (I'm hoping it will time its death at the last nail in
> the analogue coffin), I'm going for a PC based box and three tuners. And I'm
> hoping by that stage that the software would be customisable enough to do what
> I want with timing variations.

I'm coming to the conclusion that a HTPC is probably the best answer as
well, although the Beyonwiz units look nice.

--
"If nothing that we do matters, then all that matters is what we do" -
Angel

[Ext User(John Tserkezis)]

Ian Galbraith wrote:

> I'm coming to the conclusion that a HTPC is probably the best answer as
> well, although the Beyonwiz units look nice.

I had already put a lot of thought into this. Early on in the piece when I
bought the JVC, and voted for the read-made box rather than PC, because by
that stage, PC software hadn't reached the "totally PC transparent" stage
where I could reliable do everything with a remote.

It *could* be done at that time, mind you, but I wasn't happy enough with it.

In hindsight, I should have done it anyway. That way I would have had an
upgrade path - software and hardware. The reason I *didn't* was that I was
unsure at the time how the software upgrade path would pan out, and thought it
would be 'lacking' somewhat in the future (or at least not improve much).

Boy, was I wrong on that note.

--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

[Ext User(Poxy)]

John Tserkezis wrote:
> Poxy wrote:
>
>> Seeing as you're a Linux neeeerd, you should use MythTV. It has a
>> couple of different options for EPG collection - all which work very
>> well,
>
> And they have for a while. A real working system that the powers
> that be have been promising for years now.
>
> As far as "legitimate" options, forget it. With the network
> goings-on so far, I don't see that they're not going to allow for it
> anytime soon anyway.
>
>> keyword-based recording schedules so you pick up shows you like even
>> if you didn't know they were back on, and the ability to set time
>> offsets (in both directions) for start and end times.
>
> I've only seen a very early version some time back. I'm guessing
> it's a little premature to fork out for the hardware now even for
> testing, as I have something that functions (albeit single tuner).
> So it looks like I'll be doing my homework again when that falls over
> eventually, or I get sick of the networks shenanigans whichever comes
> first.

My MythTV box is an ancient dual P600 with a few DTV cards stuffed into it
as well as a fat disk or two running off a PCI SATA card. The server does a
bunch of other things apart from run MythTV but hasn't skipped a beat in
close to 10 months. It only records - I play back using a MPEG-2->TV card on
my PC - so the actual load on the box is very little - a couple of percent
CPU for each card that is recording.

So if you have a spare old machine, stick a $50 tuner card (or three) in it
and let her rip.

[Ext User(John Tserkezis)]

Poxy wrote:

> So if you have a spare old machine, stick a $50 tuner card (or three) in it
> and let her rip.

Sadly no, that's not the way I do things. I'll have to spend a significant
amount of time looking for a motherboard that has more than two bloody PCI
slots (surprisingly hard!), outfit it with three tuners, and I'm likely to go
with a terabyte of storage.

I'm not going to be left with insufficient space again, or missed programs.

Not that I care about free to air. Of course.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>