Mac Book Air running Windows Vista

[Randy]

OK, i think i found the laptop i want till mac get their act together with the iphone and actually start (well, shipping to Australia) and putting some decent features in it.

The Mac Book Air. Sexy as hell

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/MacBook_Air_1.jpg/250px-MacBook_Air_1.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/49/SteveJobsMacbookAir.JPG/140px-SteveJobsMacbookAir.JPG

What i want to know, is that it says it can have vista installed on it, but the limitation on a mac system is the fact that the physical interface is like from the 80's. There's no right mouse button, and tapping the pad in mac doesn't indicate a mouse press.

So my question is, are there proper mousepad drivers for vista offered by mac? anyone ever run M$ on a mac? Does mac offer a virtual machine? can mac run visual studio?

[MeanDean]

As for a VM, It's got a commercial one and there are some open source ones that will work on Mac.
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=117D482D&fnode=home/shop_mac/software&nplm=TN831LL/A
http://www.virtualizationdaily.com/archives/145_virtualbox-for-mac-os-x-released.html
The second one has an open source version and a more feature rich free but not as open version.
There's others that will work, perhaps vmware, but virtualbox is very good running Windows in Linux. If you want 3d acceleration or any real graphics you'lle want to look very carefully at what you get and what it can actually do. That sort of support isn't that good yet and most things won't provide it. Unless Apple's VM provides it, you won't likely find it on the Mac.

Do these things actually have opticle drives to install XP from? If it turns out to be the case, Virtualbox will let you install from an image file I think, as will a lot of the VM's but Virtualbox is very good on when run on Linux is why I single it out.

I'm not sure if Windows can be installed natively on a Mac because, and maybe this isn't the case with the Intel Mac, the BIOS, which isn't called a BIOS, is supposed to be very differant from a normal PC bios. I don't really know much about this other than random how to's I've come accross about how to get the Mac bootloader to pass over to booting Linux so one can start an install, and it requires downloading Mac developer tools, decompiling this aspect of the Mac, changing it, recompiling it, and installing it back into the system, or some craziness.

[Randy]

As for a VM, It's got a commercial one and there are some open source ones that will work on Mac.
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=117D482D&fnode=home/shop_mac/software&nplm=TN831LL/A
http://www.virtualizationdaily.com/archives/145_virtualbox-for-mac-os-x-released.html
The second one has an open source version and a more feature rich free but not as open version.
There's others that will work, perhaps vmware, but virtualbox is very good running Windows in Linux. If you want 3d acceleration or any real graphics you'lle want to look very carefully at what you get and what it can actually do. That sort of support isn't that good yet and most things won't provide it. Unless Apple's VM provides it, you won't likely find it on the Mac.

Do these things actually have opticle drives to install XP from? If it turns out to be the case, Virtualbox will let you install from an image file I think, as will a lot of the VM's but Virtualbox is very good on when run on Linux is why I single it out.

I'm not sure if Windows can be installed natively on a Mac because, and maybe this isn't the case with the Intel Mac, the BIOS, which isn't called a BIOS, is supposed to be very differant from a normal PC bios. I don't really know much about this other than random how to's I've come accross about how to get the Mac bootloader to pass over to booting Linux so one can start an install, and it requires downloading Mac developer tools, decompiling this aspect of the Mac, changing it, recompiling it, and installing it back into the system, or some craziness.Well it claims in its marketing to vbe able to take Vista, so i think the bios thing is isnt an issue, and i just found out that it has this think called bootloader which will enable vista to be installed as if you had 2 partitions... therefore no need for a VM.

Sill a little iffey about the mousepad, and its absence of a right mouse button. i'm also a little dubious about its absence of broadband internet support. It has no optical drive, but that's not really an issue, i want it as a portable information source not as an actual computer. It claims to have this revolutionary system where it can run the optical drives of another networked computer *cough* mappped network drives have been around for over a decade, probably even 2 *cough* Nothing revolutionary about that... my vist machine does it with my laptop ATM.

I like the weight, and the thinness, and the build quality (the unbreakableness) and the 5 hour WIFI battery life. I don't care about its absene of optical drives, and ports other than micro DVI, usb and headphone jack.

I do care about its 1.8'' 80gig PATA 4200RPM HDD, and the fact that there is no bigger HDD on the market that can fit it, and the fact that i don't know where to get one. the 2gig of integrated RAM is somewhat an issue, but 2 gig should be enough for the next ~10 years, especially since its only a portable information medium.

I'm not sure if i should get it now, and hope that single patter NAND 1.8'' HDD's will become available in the future, or wait till its next revision, and hope it comes out with wireless broadband support (over a mobile system, not 802.11) and a bigger HDD.

[MeanDean]

The regular mac books are pretty lightweight compared to your average pc laptop, or the one I was playing with recently was anyway. I was looking at the mac website earlier today and really just didn't understand the justification of the price behind these things. It seems like they're just really light thin things without needed ports and peripherals or whatever, and that it would be more trouble worrying about it being stolen, than it would be worth. If they made the thing fold up to fit into my back pocket, that would indeed be cool though. I can't imagine the price being justified just because it doesn't weigh much. I'd buy a normal one if anything at all. That thing thing is just more Mac eye candy and that's all. The drive speed itself is indeed enough to be a complete turn off, if it only cost $700 or $900 at the top end then maybe it would be worth waiting a year for things to load.

[Randy]

The regular mac books are pretty lightweight compared to your average pc laptop, or the one I was playing with recently was anyway. I was looking at the mac website earlier today and really just didn't understand the justification of the price behind these things. It seems like they're just really light thin things without needed ports and peripherals or whatever, and that it would be more trouble worrying about it being stolen, than it would be worth. If they made the thing fold up to fit into my back pocket, that would indeed be cool though. I can't imagine the price being justified just because it doesn't weigh much. I'd buy a normal one if anything at all. That thing thing is just more Mac eye candy and that's all. The drive speed itself is indeed enough to be a complete turn off, if it only cost $700 or $900 at the top end then maybe it would be worth waiting a year for things to load.yeah, well i want an ultra portable, one that can easily fit into a backpack without worrying about the weight or it getting broken
(ideally, i want it to be able to fit into my leather notepad holder thinggo)

I've got a budget acer, it weighs over 3kg, in a bag with its s*it, its heavy as. carry that around all day and you'd be willing to fork out an extra thousand or two for something the same weight and size of a notepad.

The eye candy thing is just gravy. I've always been a fan of minimalism. and that mac seems to embody it.
I felt the weight of the other mac books they had there, and the weight alone was a clear turn off.

price also reflects the mac 'shoeless environmentalist' thing... carbon neutral or some such.

[Soundboy]

OK, i think i found the laptop i want till mac get their act together with the iphone and actually start (well, shipping to Australia) and putting some decent features in it.

The Mac Book Air. Sexy as hell

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/MacBook_Air_1.jpg/250px-MacBook_Air_1.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/49/SteveJobsMacbookAir.JPG/140px-SteveJobsMacbookAir.JPG

What i want to know, is that it says it can have vista installed on it, but the limitation on a mac system is the fact that the physical interface is like from the 80's. There's no right mouse button, and tapping the pad in mac doesn't indicate a mouse press.

So my question is, are there proper mousepad drivers for vista offered by mac? anyone ever run M$ on a mac? Does mac offer a virtual machine? can mac run visual studio?
you think thats a good looking computer???
i think its ugly. i hate simple computers, it nees a bit of color and.. it doesnt even have a cd player. but thats my rant.. dont worry about me randborg.
its your opinion :)

EDIT: further look into it.. NO ethernet.. NO wireless??? wtf. it would be sitting on your desk all the time. oh.. and if you do want wireless internet.. you need to buy a thick dongle. defeats the purpose of portable and light. also.. i use 3 usb ports on my laptop... i can only use one on the macbook air. Its crazy having flash memory, slow and not quick to respond. also the fact that you cant expand the ram.. and... my last rant.. the battery is not removable, if it dies.. thats a 5 week wait to china to get it replaced. Thats alot of time to loose if your doing work.. (if you have any work with no way connecting through networks and one usb)

*takes deep breath* ok.. done :PI your go!

[Randy]

you think thats a good looking computer???
i think its ugly. i hate simple computers, it nees a bit of color and.. it doesnt even have a cd player. but thats my rant.. dont worry about me randborg.
its your opinion :)

EDIT: further look into it.. NO ethernet.. NO wireless??? wtf. it would be sitting on your desk all the time.i already identified all that. (except your hatred of minimalism, and your clear misunderstanding of the term sexy) (here and in the overflow thread) so for reiterating everything i said, you get a

thanks for playing ;)

[Randy]

and if you do want wireless internet..It has 802.11n wifi. if your talking inbuilt cellular internet (:confused:), no-one has it. because there are too many standards.
also.. i use 3 usb ports on my laptop... i can only use one on the macbook air.Its a mobile information medium, not a home computer. clearly.
Its crazy having flash memory, slow and not quick to respond.you fail.

SSD's have low latency and low throughput.
HDD's have high latency and high throughput.

Google the terms if you need to.

either way, the standard model doesn't have a SSD. Its $1600 extra.

also the fact that you cant expand the ram..its 2 gig. 1/2 of the theoretical max the OS can support! thanks for playing. ;)

the battery is not removable, if it dies.. thats a 5 week wait to china to get it replaced.You've been reading some of the top google entries ;)... well if you ventured lower, you'll realise that it is removable, quite easily, you just can't pull it out of the case. and you just plagiarised that line!

[custos]

There's no right mouse button, and tapping the pad in mac doesn't indicate a mouse press.

Can't help you regarding the pad, but for a three button mouse Macs have been able to use them for years. I have a G3 laptop at home (10 years old, maybe older, the one in the black rubberised case like Batman's outfit :)) that has a Microsoft Intellimouse on it. Just plugged it in and it worked right out of the box.

You can use any multiple button mouse with a Mac, and it will probably work as you expect as soon as you plug it in. There are drivers to allow you to assign each of the buttons, the wheel, clicking the wheel etc. to Mac actions. So this ability has been around for at least a decade.

I live and work in a multiple OS environment -- mostly using Windows XP. The single thing that never cease to amaze me with the Mac environment is how "plug and play" is a reality, not a marketing phrase. A few weeks ago I bought a new MFC printer/scanner etc. for my home network. Setting it up on the PCs first I popped in the CD, installed the drivers, went to the web site, updated the drivers, searched the network to find the printer, selected it as the default, blah blah (the scanning software was another story). Then I booted up the Mac. Remember, this is a new printer on my home network not attached to the Mac. I got this message that said something like (I'm not making this up) "I've found a Brother MFCN402 on the network, would you like to use it with this computer?".... (click yes), then "would you like to set it as the default printer?" (click yes). Done.

Sure, you don't have to do stuff like that very often but it's awesome to see genuine plug and play at work.

And yes, I also think the Airbook is sexy as hell. :)

[dvd_beetle]

Here's the question everyone's thinking - Why Vista and not XP??????

[jokiin]

Here's the question everyone's thinking - Why Vista and not XP??????

Would be a challenge when Vista doesn't even run well on the hardware it is supposedly designed for:)

[Randy]

Here's the question everyone's thinking - Why Vista and not XP??????Why bother with XP when you have vista. If you ever get it you'll understand.

All the talk about XP being better is completely baseless. Its anti-Microsoft crap. influenced more by peoples fear of change than any technical differences.

[MeanDean]

XP is Microsoft, so how is it anti-Mocrosoft. It's the Microsoft eXPerience remember?
Here's a guy who isn't anti-Microsoft and is having an experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc4MzqBFxZE

[Ron2K]

Why bother with XP when you have vista.

Conversely, why bother with Vista when you have XP? ;)

"Newer" does not always equal "better", you know.

[Randy]

XP is Microsoft, so how is it anti-Mocrosoft. It's the Microsoft eXPerience remember?
Here's a guy who isn't anti-Microsoft and is having an experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc4MzqBFxZEIt is anti-Microsoft. Microsoft is 'the best', and some people get some strange self worth by not indulging themselves in 'the best'. While most can't be anti-Microsoft, as you need Microsoft to do pretty much everything, they can still use that same methodology when talking about operating systems. XP would be a less evil version of Microsoft because its less good, something like that.

Conversely, why bother with Vista when you have XP? ;)

"Newer" does not always equal "better", you know.It does in the case of vista. The reasons for wanting to go to vista are all in m$ marketing. bla bla bla pretty, bla bla bla media sharing, bla bla bla network discovery...

XP is like using a rock to open a tin can. Sure you can do it. and you might feel more mucho for doing it, but your a f*ckwit if you use it instead of an easily accessible can opener. (like those linuxers, but we're not going into that... (even though i know we probably will... this kind of topic always goes in the linux direction.)

If used properly, vista works properly. there are hacks you can do to turn the interface back into XP (why would you though), It doesn't lag if you turn off aero (if you have a shitty PC)...

It has everything that XP has, and it has more. So why bother with XP?

BTW, i get them for free. so its not a money thing. ;)

[MeanDean]

So if XP is a rock, and to indulge you since you clearly ARE asking, and an OS like Linux is worse than XP, that makes it like... I don't know, a stick maybe.

I had to spend an hour and 40 minutes in the shoutbox to teach you how to use a stick the other day? That's pretty funny :dD

Microsoft might have cause to sue yiu at this point if they beleive you've innapropriately represented them or their products. You should be careful and just leave it to their marketing department to be safe, or even better just leave it to their revolutoinary hands on approach guy who runs the whole show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc4MzqBFxZE Isn't that what you've been trying to say about Vista all this time? :dD

[MeanDean]

I really should save shit like this for when I don't feel like replying and just want to past in a link when you start indulging your weird love affair. Finding the insane number of naive posts and contradicting statements you've made over time would be a lifelong project.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La_u1jPLOIA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrwnJDQy0ic&feature=related
This guy sort of personifies you Randoid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR8SAFRBmcU&feature=related
No really he does:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo&feature=related

Lol at this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIk4qTKmKzE&feature=related


Still though... paying Microsoft for XP means one is "against" MS because they... how the hell does that work again :confused: You realise that this sort of thing is why there's entire threads trending at slamming you?

[Randy]

So if XP is a rock, and to indulge you since you clearly ARE asking, and an OS like Linux is worse than XP, that makes it like... I don't know, a stick maybe.

I had to spend an hour and 40 minutes in the shoutbox to teach you how to use a stick the other day? That's pretty funny :dDI think i like that analogy. Although all you did was tell me one line. and that was how to install the 'build-essential' package from the command line. Because that distro didn't come with the appropriate tools in which to use the operating system properly. Gone are the days when vista asks 'please insert the vista CD to install this mission critical piece of data'.

and remember, that though i've installed linux around 25 times, it still took me over an hour to get to a point in linux, where i could use the compiler. That i had to use a VM on my main PC, instead of using my laptop (which is there for that kind of propose) because that 'up to date' version of linux (ubuntu 7.04) wasn't compatible with my common mass produced laptops integrated graphics.

(i know your going to argue that Vista doesn't have a compiler. But vista isn't designed as a modular editable OS. Can't edit the OS without the ability to compile. all you can do is... change properties in text files, which is akin to clicking check boxes.)

Microsoft might have cause to sue yiu at this point if they beleive you've innapropriately represented them or their products. You should be careful and just leave it to their marketing department to be safe, or even better just leave it to their revolutoinary hands on approach guy who runs the whole show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc4MzqBFxZE Isn't that what you've been trying to say about Vista all this time? :dDSomeone had a little too much sugar in his coffee this morning. :eek:

[Randy]

Still though... paying Microsoft for XP means one is "against" MS because they... how the hell does that work again :confused: You realise that this sort of thing is why there's entire threads trending at slamming you?I justified it in the last post.

While most can't be anti-Microsoft, as you need Microsoft to do pretty much everything, they can still use that same methodology when talking about operating systems. XP would be a less evil version of Microsoft because its less good, something like that.Needs a little refinement, but the idea is in there.

I guess also, there's the fact that XP can be :pirate:d. where as vista can't... reliably. so for all intents and purposes.... XP is free.

[MeanDean]

No you still didn't make it clear. And obviosly as you stated having varying versions of Vista that you didn't pay for, it can be pirated.


So vista comes native with a C C++ obejective C objective C++ Java and fortran compilers all in one project? Awesome! If not, you can get all that for free with just one line of text! Awesome! Windows must really rock for you leet developer types, especially useful for NT kernel hacking.



Still, an hour and a half to type one line of text... learn to use the damn stick or quit bitching about them.

People on Linux forums, the newbie distros like Ubuntu, which you can't seem to use properly... over and over and over and over despite trying, are constantly asking for support for really simple things that are easily fixed, and too often what happens is that someone spends a lot of time writing a step by step post even explaining where to find "terminal" in the menu, or to simply type their usernae and password at that black screen login thing (you remember being stuck there don't you ;)) and they put everything in code tags so it's easy to copy and paste or to write down, and what happens sometimes... an hour and a half later the response comes "Thanks, but I solved the problem, I formatted and reinstalled."

That's the equivalent of your 3 reeboots in the VM we went through. I says "put the damn router or DNS address in the freaking file" and you says "I'm rebooting"... Windows trained to the core. Did you choose the name Cyborg this time because you just kind of blindly do the stupidest thing by default?

Now before you start on again on "Oh, it's a VM problem", which I certainly didn't mind ignoring when I was trying to help you out, let me remind you that it was a VM running in the most.. whatever, OS in the world: Windows Vista, that you got really nervous when the Ubuntu installer told you what it was doing and paused because you didn't understand what it meant. "I think it's hung on configuring apt!"

I had already told you what to install to pull in all packages relating to the compilers and it was one line of text.

And what do you mean by long gone are the days... what's that supposed to mean? You don't need to insert it again after installing Ubuntu unless you plan on using the disk as a software repository which is optional.

The bottom line is that it took us an hour and a half to install from a disk image into a virtual machine... fast as hell as you stated, and pull in one metapackage. I've repartitioned the drive, installed, and have been well into installing most of ALL the package I'll use in that same amount of time. It doesn't take a genious to double click the thingy that says "Install", select a keyboard layout, timezone, select default (newb) partitioning, and get going. In Windows, on my laptop, far out man, it takes like hours just for an automated reboot because it's configuring the system on startuo and shutdown, but what exactly it's actually doing... perhaps even the top dog doesn't know the answer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc4MzqBFxZE