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Ext User(kony)
04-10-2011, 10:05 AM
On 4 Mar 2004 09:11:30 -0800, Searcher7@mail.con2.com (Darren Harris)
wrote:

>> Apparently you have had a lot of bad luck. For the most part you could
>> just throw the cards in without a care in the world and they'd work,
>> though in some cases there were issues like sound or video cards hogging
>> the bus or chipsets with flaky/slow PCI bus (Via 686 southbridge in
>> particular). Of course there are other possibilities, but for the most
>> part you are taking a gamble either way, moreso if you don't do the
>> researching of parts first, but most people do set up (both, integrated or
>> non-integrated) without significant problems.
>
>Most people.

yeah, "most people" can expect to drive to work tomorrow without getting
in a traffic accident too, but some won't make it.

>Well, I believe that if putting a PC together was as easy as I said,
>that proportion would swing greatly in the direction
>"do-it-your-selfers".

Fair enough, the more you do it the easier it gets. Just do it. You won't
learn anything about fixing configuration issues if you never have any.

>Basically, it comes down to if what I'm looking for is available, and
>so far it doesn't seem so.

Dude, get a Dell.


>> I have drawers full of hardware, and enough systems that I lost count long
>> ago. For the most part I can just throw any combination of parts together
>> and expect it to work, it's unusual for any problems to arise, and even
>> more unusual to have problems that aren't well-known issues with the
>> particular hardware (where the research comes into play beforehand).
>
>If I had that may parts, perhaps I could say the same thing.

You're missing the point... it's not that I'd have to swap parts to get it
working, but rather just blindly reach in and grab "something" expecting
it to work.

>Actually the reason was specific. Integrated options to fall back on
>until I get relatively high-end cards, or if I have configuration
>problems.

Fair enough, but with the plan to get cards eventually you might consider
a non-mATX motherboard, and something a bit better than Biostar (which is
just about any name-brand).


>You're assuming too much. I never said I have an apprehension of the
>whole "build-a-system process".

Ummmm, this thread is evidence of that apprehension. In less time than it
took for you and I to write/reply to this thread, the parts could've been
ordered or assembled, you could be done right now.

>If anything I have an apprehension of
>big name manufactured systems. And the idea is to make this the last
>32 bit system I build, before 64 bit takes over. So obviously I'll
>want to have a minimum ceiling as for a processor when the time comes
>to squeeze as much as I can out of the system.

Fair enough, then get an Athlon board that supports DDR400 or P4 board
supporting QDR800, too often called 800 "MHz". Buy from a manufacturer
that offers timely bios updates... check their website for their track
record with current and aging boards, if they didn't support "squeezing as
much as I can" (which I assume to mean a CPU upgrade) out of their past
boards, you shouldn't expect them to do so with current boards.

Asus, Abit, MSI or Gigabyte would be better choices than Biostar.

>That is what this is all about. I was searching for an integrated mobo
>that has all the features I need. But it may not exist.

But you never mentiond what specific features, performance levels you
need... you're being unproductive.


>I've also been looking at the Asus P4P800* and P4C800*, but I'm told
>that Intel mobos would be more reliable, and tend to have more
>integrated features.

Then buy an Intel board.

>Well if I get into gaming next year, I'd have to spring for a high-end
>video card.

OK?

Ext User(Darren Harris)
04-10-2011, 10:05 AM
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message news:<f9kf40d3j6i92kmdrr6h8jot5rgp6tnacm@4ax.com>...
> On 4 Mar 2004 09:11:30 -0800, Searcher7@mail.con2.com (Darren Harris)
> wrote:
>
> >> Apparently you have had a lot of bad luck. For the most part you could
> >> just throw the cards in without a care in the world and they'd work,
> >> though in some cases there were issues like sound or video cards hogging
> >> the bus or chipsets with flaky/slow PCI bus (Via 686 southbridge in
> >> particular). Of course there are other possibilities, but for the most
> >> part you are taking a gamble either way, moreso if you don't do the
> >> researching of parts first, but most people do set up (both, integrated or
> >> non-integrated) without significant problems.
> >
> >Most people.
>
> yeah, "most people" can expect to drive to work tomorrow without getting
> in a traffic accident too, but some won't make it.

I would think that there is a higher chance of running into a
configuration problem than getting into a car accident.

> >Well, I believe that if putting a PC together was as easy as I said,
> >that proportion would swing greatly in the direction
> >"do-it-your-selfers".
>
> Fair enough, the more you do it the easier it gets. Just do it. You won't
> learn anything about fixing configuration issues if you never have any.

That's right. But since that isn't the case...

> >Basically, it comes down to if what I'm looking for is available, and
> >so far it doesn't seem so.
>
> Dude, get a Dell.

I have enough crap.

> >> I have drawers full of hardware, and enough systems that I lost count long
> >> ago. For the most part I can just throw any combination of parts together
> >> and expect it to work, it's unusual for any problems to arise, and even
> >> more unusual to have problems that aren't well-known issues with the
> >> particular hardware (where the research comes into play beforehand).
> >
> >If I had that may parts, perhaps I could say the same thing.
>
> You're missing the point... it's not that I'd have to swap parts to get it
> working, but rather just blindly reach in and grab "something" expecting
> it to work.

What happened to all the research first?

> >Actually the reason was specific. Integrated options to fall back on
> >until I get relatively high-end cards, or if I have configuration
> >problems.
>
> Fair enough, but with the plan to get cards eventually you might consider
> a non-mATX motherboard, and something a bit better than Biostar (which is
> just about any name-brand).

A "non-mATX" motherboard? The only PCBs I'm looking at now are Intel,
Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, and MSI.

> >You're assuming too much. I never said I have an apprehension of the
> >whole "build-a-system process".
>
> Ummmm, this thread is evidence of that apprehension.

No. It's evidence of me attempting to find a solution to possible
problems that I may encounter while building a system.

In less time than it
> took for you and I to write/reply to this thread, the parts could've been
> ordered or assembled, you could be done right now.

I'm doing my research first. :-)

> >If anything I have an apprehension of
> >big name manufactured systems. And the idea is to make this the last
> >32 bit system I build, before 64 bit takes over. So obviously I'll
> >want to have a minimum ceiling as for a processor when the time comes
> >to squeeze as much as I can out of the system.
>
> Fair enough, then get an Athlon board that supports DDR400 or P4 board
> supporting QDR800, too often called 800 "MHz". Buy from a manufacturer
> that offers timely bios updates... check their website for their track
> record with current and aging boards, if they didn't support "squeezing as
> much as I can" (which I assume to mean a CPU upgrade) out of their past
> boards, you shouldn't expect them to do so with current boards.
>
> Asus, Abit, MSI or Gigabyte would be better choices than Biostar.

No argument there.

> >That is what this is all about. I was searching for an integrated mobo
> >that has all the features I need. But it may not exist.
>
> But you never mentiond what specific features, performance levels you
> need... you're being unproductive.

Incorrect. I mentioned the important thing. *Integrated options*. Then
from there I'll narrow it down further by considering the specific
features and performance levels.

> >I've also been looking at the Asus P4P800* and P4C800*, but I'm told
> >that Intel mobos would be more reliable, and tend to have more
> >integrated features.
>
> Then buy an Intel board.

I'm thinking about it.

> >Well if I get into gaming next year, I'd have to spring for a high-end
> >video card.
>
> OK?

Ok.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Ext User(kony)
04-10-2011, 10:05 AM
On 5 Mar 2004 06:21:35 -0800, Searcher7@mail.con2.com (Darren Harris)
wrote:



>I would think that there is a higher chance of running into a
>configuration problem than getting into a car accident.

Depends on how you drive ;-)

>> Dude, get a Dell.
>
>I have enough crap.

I'm not particularly fond of Dells, but their systems are better than what
you linked previously.


>> You're missing the point... it's not that I'd have to swap parts to get it
>> working, but rather just blindly reach in and grab "something" expecting
>> it to work.
>
>What happened to all the research first?

Exactly my point... no problems even without the research, so why in the
world are you worrying about the unknown instead of just doing the
research (of specific parts) then making the purchase decision.


>A "non-mATX" motherboard? The only PCBs I'm looking at now are Intel,
>Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, and MSI.

You don't have the background to build a system.
If you did, you'd know mATX is a form factor, and non-mATX would mean, NOT
the mATX form factor, since it will limit expansion due to a limited
number of PCI slots and often other feature reductions.


>No. It's evidence of me attempting to find a solution to possible
>problems that I may encounter while building a system.

You've gone mad.

>
>In less time than it
>> took for you and I to write/reply to this thread, the parts could've been
>> ordered or assembled, you could be done right now.
>
>I'm doing my research first. :-)

That's just it, you're not doing the research, you're spinning your wheels
whithout getting anywhere. Research specific parts.

Let's look at the basic fundamentals of it:

List the features you need... none of this "what if" crap, just write down
the features you want on a board and group them by importance.

Consider the applications and price-point, what platform you want to run.
Read reviews of appropriate boards and visit the manufacturer's website.
Read the bios notes. Go to a motherboard forum and see what issues
current owners of the board are dealing with. Do some google searches.
you should have a few boards under consideration and be dwindling that
list down to one or two, depending on whether specific feature set or
price is more important.



>> Asus, Abit, MSI or Gigabyte would be better choices than Biostar.
>
>No argument there.

Then did you do any research on their offerings?
You should buy a Dell.

>> But you never mentiond what specific features, performance levels you
>> need... you're being unproductive.
>
>Incorrect. I mentioned the important thing. *Integrated options*. Then
>from there I'll narrow it down further by considering the specific
>features and performance levels.

You're being unproductive and you never mentioned specifics. If you can't
understand that then you should buy a Dell.

>> Then buy an Intel board.
>
>I'm thinking about it.

LOL.
Are you researching it? A SPECIFIC board?

>> OK?
>
>Ok.


OK!

A Dell with an Intel board.

Maybe there is only one good, short answer:

No, integrated features do not have configuration issues, specific boards
and parts combinations do. The way to address your concerns is
researching specific components, not the generalizations you're trying to
make, or rather looking for.

Ext User(Darren Harris)
04-10-2011, 10:05 AM
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message news:<f9kf40d3j6i92kmdrr6h8jot5rgp6tnacm@4ax.com>...
> On 4 Mar 2004 09:11:30 -0800, Searcher7@mail.con2.com (Darren Harris)
> wrote:
>
> >> Apparently you have had a lot of bad luck. For the most part you could
> >> just throw the cards in without a care in the world and they'd work,
> >> though in some cases there were issues like sound or video cards hogging
> >> the bus or chipsets with flaky/slow PCI bus (Via 686 southbridge in
> >> particular). Of course there are other possibilities, but for the most
> >> part you are taking a gamble either way, moreso if you don't do the
> >> researching of parts first, but most people do set up (both, integrated or
> >> non-integrated) without significant problems.
> >
> >Most people.
>
> yeah, "most people" can expect to drive to work tomorrow without getting
> in a traffic accident too, but some won't make it.

I would think that there is a higher chance of running into a
configuration problem than getting into a car accident.

> >Well, I believe that if putting a PC together was as easy as I said,
> >that proportion would swing greatly in the direction
> >"do-it-your-selfers".
>
> Fair enough, the more you do it the easier it gets. Just do it. You won't
> learn anything about fixing configuration issues if you never have any.

That's right. But since that isn't the case...

> >Basically, it comes down to if what I'm looking for is available, and
> >so far it doesn't seem so.
>
> Dude, get a Dell.

I have enough crap.

> >> I have drawers full of hardware, and enough systems that I lost count long
> >> ago. For the most part I can just throw any combination of parts together
> >> and expect it to work, it's unusual for any problems to arise, and even
> >> more unusual to have problems that aren't well-known issues with the
> >> particular hardware (where the research comes into play beforehand).
> >
> >If I had that may parts, perhaps I could say the same thing.
>
> You're missing the point... it's not that I'd have to swap parts to get it
> working, but rather just blindly reach in and grab "something" expecting
> it to work.

What happened to all the research first?

> >Actually the reason was specific. Integrated options to fall back on
> >until I get relatively high-end cards, or if I have configuration
> >problems.
>
> Fair enough, but with the plan to get cards eventually you might consider
> a non-mATX motherboard, and something a bit better than Biostar (which is
> just about any name-brand).

A "non-mATX" motherboard? The only PCBs I'm looking at now are Intel,
Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, and MSI.

> >You're assuming too much. I never said I have an apprehension of the
> >whole "build-a-system process".
>
> Ummmm, this thread is evidence of that apprehension.

No. It's evidence of me attempting to find a solution to possible
problems that I may encounter while building a system.

In less time than it
> took for you and I to write/reply to this thread, the parts could've been
> ordered or assembled, you could be done right now.

I'm doing my research first. :-)

> >If anything I have an apprehension of
> >big name manufactured systems. And the idea is to make this the last
> >32 bit system I build, before 64 bit takes over. So obviously I'll
> >want to have a minimum ceiling as for a processor when the time comes
> >to squeeze as much as I can out of the system.
>
> Fair enough, then get an Athlon board that supports DDR400 or P4 board
> supporting QDR800, too often called 800 "MHz". Buy from a manufacturer
> that offers timely bios updates... check their website for their track
> record with current and aging boards, if they didn't support "squeezing as
> much as I can" (which I assume to mean a CPU upgrade) out of their past
> boards, you shouldn't expect them to do so with current boards.
>
> Asus, Abit, MSI or Gigabyte would be better choices than Biostar.

No argument there.

> >That is what this is all about. I was searching for an integrated mobo
> >that has all the features I need. But it may not exist.
>
> But you never mentiond what specific features, performance levels you
> need... you're being unproductive.

Incorrect. I mentioned the important thing. *Integrated options*. Then
from there I'll narrow it down further by considering the specific
features and performance levels.

> >I've also been looking at the Asus P4P800* and P4C800*, but I'm told
> >that Intel mobos would be more reliable, and tend to have more
> >integrated features.
>
> Then buy an Intel board.

I'm thinking about it.

> >Well if I get into gaming next year, I'd have to spring for a high-end
> >video card.
>
> OK?

Ok.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Ext User(kony)
04-10-2011, 10:05 AM
On 5 Mar 2004 06:21:35 -0800, Searcher7@mail.con2.com (Darren Harris)
wrote:



>I would think that there is a higher chance of running into a
>configuration problem than getting into a car accident.

Depends on how you drive ;-)

>> Dude, get a Dell.
>
>I have enough crap.

I'm not particularly fond of Dells, but their systems are better than what
you linked previously.


>> You're missing the point... it's not that I'd have to swap parts to get it
>> working, but rather just blindly reach in and grab "something" expecting
>> it to work.
>
>What happened to all the research first?

Exactly my point... no problems even without the research, so why in the
world are you worrying about the unknown instead of just doing the
research (of specific parts) then making the purchase decision.


>A "non-mATX" motherboard? The only PCBs I'm looking at now are Intel,
>Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, and MSI.

You don't have the background to build a system.
If you did, you'd know mATX is a form factor, and non-mATX would mean, NOT
the mATX form factor, since it will limit expansion due to a limited
number of PCI slots and often other feature reductions.


>No. It's evidence of me attempting to find a solution to possible
>problems that I may encounter while building a system.

You've gone mad.

>
>In less time than it
>> took for you and I to write/reply to this thread, the parts could've been
>> ordered or assembled, you could be done right now.
>
>I'm doing my research first. :-)

That's just it, you're not doing the research, you're spinning your wheels
whithout getting anywhere. Research specific parts.

Let's look at the basic fundamentals of it:

List the features you need... none of this "what if" crap, just write down
the features you want on a board and group them by importance.

Consider the applications and price-point, what platform you want to run.
Read reviews of appropriate boards and visit the manufacturer's website.
Read the bios notes. Go to a motherboard forum and see what issues
current owners of the board are dealing with. Do some google searches.
you should have a few boards under consideration and be dwindling that
list down to one or two, depending on whether specific feature set or
price is more important.



>> Asus, Abit, MSI or Gigabyte would be better choices than Biostar.
>
>No argument there.

Then did you do any research on their offerings?
You should buy a Dell.

>> But you never mentiond what specific features, performance levels you
>> need... you're being unproductive.
>
>Incorrect. I mentioned the important thing. *Integrated options*. Then
>from there I'll narrow it down further by considering the specific
>features and performance levels.

You're being unproductive and you never mentioned specifics. If you can't
understand that then you should buy a Dell.

>> Then buy an Intel board.
>
>I'm thinking about it.

LOL.
Are you researching it? A SPECIFIC board?

>> OK?
>
>Ok.


OK!

A Dell with an Intel board.

Maybe there is only one good, short answer:

No, integrated features do not have configuration issues, specific boards
and parts combinations do. The way to address your concerns is
researching specific components, not the generalizations you're trying to
make, or rather looking for.

Ext User(Darren Harris)
04-10-2011, 10:06 AM
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message news:<0n8h409fakalrl9qgm5b2k4si386imv726@4ax.com>...
> On 5 Mar 2004 06:21:35 -0800, Searcher7@mail.con2.com (Darren Harris)
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I would think that there is a higher chance of running into a
> >configuration problem than getting into a car accident.
>
> Depends on how you drive ;-)
>
> >> Dude, get a Dell.
> >
> >I have enough crap.
>
> I'm not particularly fond of Dells, but their systems are better than what
> you linked previously.
>
>
> >> You're missing the point... it's not that I'd have to swap parts to get it
> >> working, but rather just blindly reach in and grab "something" expecting
> >> it to work.
> >
> >What happened to all the research first?
>
> Exactly my point... no problems even without the research, so why in the
> world are you worrying about the unknown instead of just doing the
> research (of specific parts) then making the purchase decision.

This post wasn't about specific parts. It was about integrated vs.
add-on options.

> >A "non-mATX" motherboard? The only PCBs I'm looking at now are Intel,
> >Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, and MSI.
>
> You don't have the background to build a system.
> If you did, you'd know mATX is a form factor, and non-mATX would mean, NOT
> the mATX form factor, since it will limit expansion due to a limited
> number of PCI slots and often other feature reductions.

I know what ATX is. It just had nothing to do with what I was talking
about.

> >No. It's evidence of me attempting to find a solution to possible
> >problems that I may encounter while building a system.
>
> You've gone mad.

How's that?

> >In less time than it
> >> took for you and I to write/reply to this thread, the parts could've been
> >> ordered or assembled, you could be done right now.
> >
> >I'm doing my research first. :-)
>
> That's just it, you're not doing the research, you're spinning your wheels
> whithout getting anywhere. Research specific parts.

Wrong. Again this is about configuration problems(which is a genreal
issue). You kkep mentioning researching specific parts. I know what
features I want. And anyone who has any experinece building ysstems
would know that researching won't tell you every specific
configuration problem you will have, because all systems are not
exactly the same.

> Let's look at the basic fundamentals of it:
>
> List the features you need... none of this "what if" crap, just write down
> the features you want on a board and group them by importance.

I know what features I want, and that has nothing to do with the
original question.

> Consider the applications and price-point, what platform you want to run.
> Read reviews of appropriate boards and visit the manufacturer's website.
> Read the bios notes. Go to a motherboard forum and see what issues
> current owners of the board are dealing with. Do some google searches.
> you should have a few boards under consideration and be dwindling that
> list down to one or two, depending on whether specific feature set or
> price is more important.

You're still off track.

> >> Asus, Abit, MSI or Gigabyte would be better choices than Biostar.
> >
> >No argument there.
>
> Then did you do any research on their offerings?
> You should buy a Dell.

Are you a Dell employee?

> >> But you never mentiond what specific features, performance levels you
> >> need... you're being unproductive.
> >
> >Incorrect. I mentioned the important thing. *Integrated options*. Then
> >from there I'll narrow it down further by considering the specific
> >features and performance levels.
>
> You're being unproductive and you never mentioned specifics. If you can't
> understand that then you should buy a Dell.

I believe I already covered this.

> >> Then buy an Intel board.
> >
> >I'm thinking about it.
>
> LOL.
> Are you researching it? A SPECIFIC board?

Who cares about a specific board when the original question was a
general one?

> >> OK?
> >
> >Ok.
>
>
> OK!
>
> A Dell with an Intel board.
>
> Maybe there is only one good, short answer:
>
> No, integrated features do not have configuration issues, specific boards
> and parts combinations do.

What's your point?

The way to address your concerns is
> researching specific components, not the generalizations you're trying to
> make, or rather looking for.

Wrong again. The original question was valid. You seem to be the only
one who doesn't understand it.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Ext User(Darren Harris)
04-10-2011, 10:06 AM
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message news:<0n8h409fakalrl9qgm5b2k4si386imv726@4ax.com>...
> On 5 Mar 2004 06:21:35 -0800, Searcher7@mail.con2.com (Darren Harris)
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I would think that there is a higher chance of running into a
> >configuration problem than getting into a car accident.
>
> Depends on how you drive ;-)
>
> >> Dude, get a Dell.
> >
> >I have enough crap.
>
> I'm not particularly fond of Dells, but their systems are better than what
> you linked previously.
>
>
> >> You're missing the point... it's not that I'd have to swap parts to get it
> >> working, but rather just blindly reach in and grab "something" expecting
> >> it to work.
> >
> >What happened to all the research first?
>
> Exactly my point... no problems even without the research, so why in the
> world are you worrying about the unknown instead of just doing the
> research (of specific parts) then making the purchase decision.

This post wasn't about specific parts. It was about integrated vs.
add-on options.

> >A "non-mATX" motherboard? The only PCBs I'm looking at now are Intel,
> >Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, and MSI.
>
> You don't have the background to build a system.
> If you did, you'd know mATX is a form factor, and non-mATX would mean, NOT
> the mATX form factor, since it will limit expansion due to a limited
> number of PCI slots and often other feature reductions.

I know what ATX is. It just had nothing to do with what I was talking
about.

> >No. It's evidence of me attempting to find a solution to possible
> >problems that I may encounter while building a system.
>
> You've gone mad.

How's that?

> >In less time than it
> >> took for you and I to write/reply to this thread, the parts could've been
> >> ordered or assembled, you could be done right now.
> >
> >I'm doing my research first. :-)
>
> That's just it, you're not doing the research, you're spinning your wheels
> whithout getting anywhere. Research specific parts.

Wrong. Again this is about configuration problems(which is a genreal
issue). You kkep mentioning researching specific parts. I know what
features I want. And anyone who has any experinece building ysstems
would know that researching won't tell you every specific
configuration problem you will have, because all systems are not
exactly the same.

> Let's look at the basic fundamentals of it:
>
> List the features you need... none of this "what if" crap, just write down
> the features you want on a board and group them by importance.

I know what features I want, and that has nothing to do with the
original question.

> Consider the applications and price-point, what platform you want to run.
> Read reviews of appropriate boards and visit the manufacturer's website.
> Read the bios notes. Go to a motherboard forum and see what issues
> current owners of the board are dealing with. Do some google searches.
> you should have a few boards under consideration and be dwindling that
> list down to one or two, depending on whether specific feature set or
> price is more important.

You're still off track.

> >> Asus, Abit, MSI or Gigabyte would be better choices than Biostar.
> >
> >No argument there.
>
> Then did you do any research on their offerings?
> You should buy a Dell.

Are you a Dell employee?

> >> But you never mentiond what specific features, performance levels you
> >> need... you're being unproductive.
> >
> >Incorrect. I mentioned the important thing. *Integrated options*. Then
> >from there I'll narrow it down further by considering the specific
> >features and performance levels.
>
> You're being unproductive and you never mentioned specifics. If you can't
> understand that then you should buy a Dell.

I believe I already covered this.

> >> Then buy an Intel board.
> >
> >I'm thinking about it.
>
> LOL.
> Are you researching it? A SPECIFIC board?

Who cares about a specific board when the original question was a
general one?

> >> OK?
> >
> >Ok.
>
>
> OK!
>
> A Dell with an Intel board.
>
> Maybe there is only one good, short answer:
>
> No, integrated features do not have configuration issues, specific boards
> and parts combinations do.

What's your point?

The way to address your concerns is
> researching specific components, not the generalizations you're trying to
> make, or rather looking for.

Wrong again. The original question was valid. You seem to be the only
one who doesn't understand it.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Ext User(kony)
04-10-2011, 10:06 AM
On 5 Mar 2004 19:01:13 -0800, Searcher7@mail.con2.com (Darren Harris)
wrote:


>This post wasn't about specific parts. It was about integrated vs.
>add-on options.

You don't say?
LOL
I'm well aware of that, but it's still not sinking in, that you need to be
concentrating on specifics, specific hardware, because a vague
generalization is not too useful when applied to specific situations,
especially when you seem to be trying to buy a cheap system then later
hope it'll be upgradable.


>> You've gone mad.
>
>How's that?

If I knew, I might win the Nobel prize, but the drug companies would be
after me then, too much $ involved. ;-)



>> That's just it, you're not doing the research, you're spinning your wheels
>> whithout getting anywhere. Research specific parts.
>
>Wrong. Again this is about configuration problems(which is a genreal
>issue).

Ok, let us know when your issues (umm, "problems") are resolved, so you
can get on with choosing some parts.


>You keep mentioning researching specific parts. I know what
>features I want. And anyone who has any experinece building ysstems
>would know that researching won't tell you every specific
>configuration problem you will have, because all systems are not
>exactly the same.

Dell?


>I know what features I want, and that has nothing to do with the
>original question.

Sometimes people ask questions that're incompatible with the goal and need
some tips from people who can manage to just build 'em, period. How many
ways does it need to be written before you understand that your question
isn't answerable in a vague overgeneralized way that will still apply to
specific component combinations, that you need to research specific parts?

The information you seek is only useful towards the end of configuring a
system, and to that end, the specific parts matter.


>You're still off track.

The track wasn't going to the station, it was a dead-end.

>> You should buy a Dell.
>
>Are you a Dell employee?

Would that help you make up your mind?
No, but if I were, I'd tell you to buy an HP.


>> You're being unproductive and you never mentioned specifics. If you can't
>> understand that then you should buy a Dell.
>
>I believe I already covered this.

Then snip it out of the post, get right down to the point.

>Who cares about a specific board when the original question was a
>general one?

.... anyone who realizes the question has to be answered contextually to
have any validity

>> No, integrated features do not have configuration issues, specific boards
>> and parts combinations do.
>
>What's your point?

If you haven't figured it out yet it seems unlikely that you will anytime
soon. Perhaps you need to build a few dozen, hundred or more systems then
come back and tell us what you've learned, and then tell us how you'd
answer such a vague opening post when the answer varies based on the
specifics.

>The way to address your concerns is
>> researching specific components, not the generalizations you're trying to
>> make, or rather looking for.
>
>Wrong again. The original question was valid. You seem to be the only
>one who doesn't understand it.

It's sad when someone as ignorant about setting up systems as you are,
takes this attitude. Let's look at the original question one last time
and then you can sit and ponder why you don't have a working system yet,
nor are any closer to having one except for any further reasearch you
might've done, which is what I advised all along.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Can anyone tell if if integrated options on a motherbaord, like video,
audio, firewire, ect., a better idea than using add-on cards if the
priority is to avoid configuration problems when building a system?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The answer to your question is:

"No, nobody can tell without further info. We could guess or base the
answer on past experiences with specific parts but it wouldn't be
applicable to different, specific parts combinations."

That's it, the whole answer you've been longing for!
Now go buy that Dell !

Ext User(kony)
04-10-2011, 10:06 AM
On 5 Mar 2004 19:01:13 -0800, Searcher7@mail.con2.com (Darren Harris)
wrote:


>This post wasn't about specific parts. It was about integrated vs.
>add-on options.

You don't say?
LOL
I'm well aware of that, but it's still not sinking in, that you need to be
concentrating on specifics, specific hardware, because a vague
generalization is not too useful when applied to specific situations,
especially when you seem to be trying to buy a cheap system then later
hope it'll be upgradable.


>> You've gone mad.
>
>How's that?

If I knew, I might win the Nobel prize, but the drug companies would be
after me then, too much $ involved. ;-)



>> That's just it, you're not doing the research, you're spinning your wheels
>> whithout getting anywhere. Research specific parts.
>
>Wrong. Again this is about configuration problems(which is a genreal
>issue).

Ok, let us know when your issues (umm, "problems") are resolved, so you
can get on with choosing some parts.


>You keep mentioning researching specific parts. I know what
>features I want. And anyone who has any experinece building ysstems
>would know that researching won't tell you every specific
>configuration problem you will have, because all systems are not
>exactly the same.

Dell?


>I know what features I want, and that has nothing to do with the
>original question.

Sometimes people ask questions that're incompatible with the goal and need
some tips from people who can manage to just build 'em, period. How many
ways does it need to be written before you understand that your question
isn't answerable in a vague overgeneralized way that will still apply to
specific component combinations, that you need to research specific parts?

The information you seek is only useful towards the end of configuring a
system, and to that end, the specific parts matter.


>You're still off track.

The track wasn't going to the station, it was a dead-end.

>> You should buy a Dell.
>
>Are you a Dell employee?

Would that help you make up your mind?
No, but if I were, I'd tell you to buy an HP.


>> You're being unproductive and you never mentioned specifics. If you can't
>> understand that then you should buy a Dell.
>
>I believe I already covered this.

Then snip it out of the post, get right down to the point.

>Who cares about a specific board when the original question was a
>general one?

.... anyone who realizes the question has to be answered contextually to
have any validity

>> No, integrated features do not have configuration issues, specific boards
>> and parts combinations do.
>
>What's your point?

If you haven't figured it out yet it seems unlikely that you will anytime
soon. Perhaps you need to build a few dozen, hundred or more systems then
come back and tell us what you've learned, and then tell us how you'd
answer such a vague opening post when the answer varies based on the
specifics.

>The way to address your concerns is
>> researching specific components, not the generalizations you're trying to
>> make, or rather looking for.
>
>Wrong again. The original question was valid. You seem to be the only
>one who doesn't understand it.

It's sad when someone as ignorant about setting up systems as you are,
takes this attitude. Let's look at the original question one last time
and then you can sit and ponder why you don't have a working system yet,
nor are any closer to having one except for any further reasearch you
might've done, which is what I advised all along.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Can anyone tell if if integrated options on a motherbaord, like video,
audio, firewire, ect., a better idea than using add-on cards if the
priority is to avoid configuration problems when building a system?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The answer to your question is:

"No, nobody can tell without further info. We could guess or base the
answer on past experiences with specific parts but it wouldn't be
applicable to different, specific parts combinations."

That's it, the whole answer you've been longing for!
Now go buy that Dell !

Ext User(Darren Harris)
04-10-2011, 10:08 AM
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message news:<vrni4051icq4j5fitv97faa6jl73g92h3q@4ax.com>...
> On 5 Mar 2004 19:01:13 -0800, Searcher7@mail.con2.com (Darren Harris)
> wrote:
>
>
> >This post wasn't about specific parts. It was about integrated vs.
> >add-on options.
>
> You don't say?
> LOL
> I'm well aware of that, but it's still not sinking in, that you need to be
> concentrating on specifics, specific hardware, because a vague
> generalization is not too useful when applied to specific situations,
> especially when you seem to be trying to buy a cheap system then later
> hope it'll be upgradable.

It's not for you to tell me what I need to be concentrating on. And
no one is applying a "vague generalization" to "specific situations".
Nothing "specific" was asked about.

> >> You've gone mad.
> >
> >How's that?
>
> If I knew, I might win the Nobel prize, but the drug companies would be
> after me then, too much $ involved. ;-)

What are you smoking?

> >> That's just it, you're not doing the research, you're spinning your wheels
> >> whithout getting anywhere. Research specific parts.
> >
> >Wrong. Again this is about configuration problems(which is a genreal
> >issue).
>
> Ok, let us know when your issues (umm, "problems") are resolved, so you
> can get on with choosing some parts.

I have no problems.(outside of you debating things that have nothing
to do with why I posted).

> >You keep mentioning researching specific parts. I know what
> >features I want. And anyone who has any experinece building ysstems
> >would know that researching won't tell you every specific
> >configuration problem you will have, because all systems are not
> >exactly the same.
>
> Dell?

That may be your answer to everything, but some of us are into systems
that are more conducive to what we may need.

> >I know what features I want, and that has nothing to do with the
> >original question.
>
> Sometimes people ask questions that're incompatible with the goal and need
> some tips from people who can manage to just build 'em, period.

And who would they be? You don't know the goal(which is plainly stated
in the post that stated this thread), so you definitely wouldn't have
any tips.

> How many ways does it need to be written before you understand that your question
> isn't answerable in a vague overgeneralized way that will still apply to
> specific component combinations, that you need to research specific parts?

Well "Dick Sidbury" and "Christopher Pollard" answered my question.
But then again. unlike you, they understood it.

> The information you seek is only useful towards the end of configuring a
> system, and to that end, the specific parts matter.
>
>
> >You're still off track.
>
> The track wasn't going to the station, it was a dead-end.

To some destination in your own mind.

> >> You should buy a Dell.
> >
> >Are you a Dell employee?
>
> Would that help you make up your mind?
> No, but if I were, I'd tell you to buy an HP.

Dell employess are smarter than that.

> >> You're being unproductive and you never mentioned specifics. If you can't
> >> understand that then you should buy a Dell.
> >
> >I believe I already covered this.
>
> Then snip it out of the post, get right down to the point.

The point? The point is obviously beyond what you can comprehend.

> >Who cares about a specific board when the original question was a
> >general one?
>
> ... anyone who realizes the question has to be answered contextually to
> have any validity

Simple minds using complex words...

> >> No, integrated features do not have configuration issues, specific boards
> >> and parts combinations do.
> >
> >What's your point?
>
> If you haven't figured it out yet it seems unlikely that you will anytime
> soon. Perhaps you need to build a few dozen, hundred or more systems then
> come back and tell us what you've learned, and then tell us how you'd
> answer such a vague opening post when the answer varies based on the
> specifics.

I realize that I can tell you ten more times that tthe original post
is not about specifics, but it obviously would still not get through,
because you are too dense. Why did you even bother.

> >The way to address your concerns is
> >> researching specific components, not the generalizations you're trying to
> >> make, or rather looking for.
> >
> >Wrong again. The original question was valid. You seem to be the only
> >one who doesn't understand it.
>
> It's sad when someone as ignorant about setting up systems as you are,
> takes this attitude. Let's look at the original question one last time
> and then you can sit and ponder why you don't have a working system yet,
> nor are any closer to having one except for any further reasearch you
> might've done, which is what I advised all along.

Duh... I haven't built a system yet. And I'll get to it when I get
ready. And don't bother looking "at the original question one last
time". That would be akin to Elmer Fudd attempting to figure out
particle physics

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Can anyone tell if if integrated options on a motherbaord, like video,
> audio, firewire, ect., a better idea than using add-on cards if the
> priority is to avoid configuration problems when building a system?"
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The answer to your question is:
>
> "No, nobody can tell without further info. We could guess or base the
> answer on past experiences with specific parts but it wouldn't be
> applicable to different, specific parts combinations."
>
> That's it, the whole answer you've been longing for!
> Now go buy that Dell !

Still wrong. "Just say no".

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Ext User(Darren Harris)
04-10-2011, 10:08 AM
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message news:<vrni4051icq4j5fitv97faa6jl73g92h3q@4ax.com>...
> On 5 Mar 2004 19:01:13 -0800, Searcher7@mail.con2.com (Darren Harris)
> wrote:
>
>
> >This post wasn't about specific parts. It was about integrated vs.
> >add-on options.
>
> You don't say?
> LOL
> I'm well aware of that, but it's still not sinking in, that you need to be
> concentrating on specifics, specific hardware, because a vague
> generalization is not too useful when applied to specific situations,
> especially when you seem to be trying to buy a cheap system then later
> hope it'll be upgradable.

It's not for you to tell me what I need to be concentrating on. And
no one is applying a "vague generalization" to "specific situations".
Nothing "specific" was asked about.

> >> You've gone mad.
> >
> >How's that?
>
> If I knew, I might win the Nobel prize, but the drug companies would be
> after me then, too much $ involved. ;-)

What are you smoking?

> >> That's just it, you're not doing the research, you're spinning your wheels
> >> whithout getting anywhere. Research specific parts.
> >
> >Wrong. Again this is about configuration problems(which is a genreal
> >issue).
>
> Ok, let us know when your issues (umm, "problems") are resolved, so you
> can get on with choosing some parts.

I have no problems.(outside of you debating things that have nothing
to do with why I posted).

> >You keep mentioning researching specific parts. I know what
> >features I want. And anyone who has any experinece building ysstems
> >would know that researching won't tell you every specific
> >configuration problem you will have, because all systems are not
> >exactly the same.
>
> Dell?

That may be your answer to everything, but some of us are into systems
that are more conducive to what we may need.

> >I know what features I want, and that has nothing to do with the
> >original question.
>
> Sometimes people ask questions that're incompatible with the goal and need
> some tips from people who can manage to just build 'em, period.

And who would they be? You don't know the goal(which is plainly stated
in the post that stated this thread), so you definitely wouldn't have
any tips.

> How many ways does it need to be written before you understand that your question
> isn't answerable in a vague overgeneralized way that will still apply to
> specific component combinations, that you need to research specific parts?

Well "Dick Sidbury" and "Christopher Pollard" answered my question.
But then again. unlike you, they understood it.

> The information you seek is only useful towards the end of configuring a
> system, and to that end, the specific parts matter.
>
>
> >You're still off track.
>
> The track wasn't going to the station, it was a dead-end.

To some destination in your own mind.

> >> You should buy a Dell.
> >
> >Are you a Dell employee?
>
> Would that help you make up your mind?
> No, but if I were, I'd tell you to buy an HP.

Dell employess are smarter than that.

> >> You're being unproductive and you never mentioned specifics. If you can't
> >> understand that then you should buy a Dell.
> >
> >I believe I already covered this.
>
> Then snip it out of the post, get right down to the point.

The point? The point is obviously beyond what you can comprehend.

> >Who cares about a specific board when the original question was a
> >general one?
>
> ... anyone who realizes the question has to be answered contextually to
> have any validity

Simple minds using complex words...

> >> No, integrated features do not have configuration issues, specific boards
> >> and parts combinations do.
> >
> >What's your point?
>
> If you haven't figured it out yet it seems unlikely that you will anytime
> soon. Perhaps you need to build a few dozen, hundred or more systems then
> come back and tell us what you've learned, and then tell us how you'd
> answer such a vague opening post when the answer varies based on the
> specifics.

I realize that I can tell you ten more times that tthe original post
is not about specifics, but it obviously would still not get through,
because you are too dense. Why did you even bother.

> >The way to address your concerns is
> >> researching specific components, not the generalizations you're trying to
> >> make, or rather looking for.
> >
> >Wrong again. The original question was valid. You seem to be the only
> >one who doesn't understand it.
>
> It's sad when someone as ignorant about setting up systems as you are,
> takes this attitude. Let's look at the original question one last time
> and then you can sit and ponder why you don't have a working system yet,
> nor are any closer to having one except for any further reasearch you
> might've done, which is what I advised all along.

Duh... I haven't built a system yet. And I'll get to it when I get
ready. And don't bother looking "at the original question one last
time". That would be akin to Elmer Fudd attempting to figure out
particle physics

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Can anyone tell if if integrated options on a motherbaord, like video,
> audio, firewire, ect., a better idea than using add-on cards if the
> priority is to avoid configuration problems when building a system?"
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The answer to your question is:
>
> "No, nobody can tell without further info. We could guess or base the
> answer on past experiences with specific parts but it wouldn't be
> applicable to different, specific parts combinations."
>
> That's it, the whole answer you've been longing for!
> Now go buy that Dell !

Still wrong. "Just say no".

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Ext User(~misfit~)
04-10-2011, 10:09 AM
Darren Harris wrote:
> Wrong. Again this is about configuration problems(which is a genreal
> issue). You kkep mentioning researching specific parts. I know what
> features I want. And anyone who has any experinece building ysstems
> would know that researching won't tell you every specific
> configuration problem you will have, because all systems are not
> exactly the same.

Get an nForce2 Ultra 400 board, specifically a Soltek one. I'm yet to have
*any* configuration problems with one.

Intel is over-priced shite anyway.

--
~misfit~

Ext User(~misfit~)
04-10-2011, 10:09 AM
Darren Harris wrote:

You sir, are an idiot. One of the most knowledgable people in this NG is
trying to give you good advice and you are insulting him.

You haven't built a PC and you are rubbishing someone who does it for a
living? Try alt.computer.hardware.just-dreaming.
--
~misfit~

Ext User(kony)
04-10-2011, 10:09 AM
On 6 Mar 2004 14:15:48 -0800, Searcher7@mail.con2.com (Darren Harris)
wrote:


>Well "Dick Sidbury" and "Christopher Pollard" answered my question.
>But then again. unlike you, they understood it.

You're not the brightest bulb in the socket are you?
You asked a question that you expected would have a clear, black and
white, true or false answer, then got all wound up when your ignorance
prevents you from understanding that:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The (issue of configuration problems) involves more variables than just
whether the features are integrated or not, and an ever increasing number
of variables with your plan to later upgrade.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You seemed to insist that I provide the answer you wanted instead of an
accurate one. There's only so much I can dumb down an answer so someone
who can't even get a single system built, so that they will understand it,
without it being an overly misleading or inaccurate response.

Ext User(~misfit~)
04-10-2011, 10:09 AM
Darren Harris wrote:
> Wrong. Again this is about configuration problems(which is a genreal
> issue). You kkep mentioning researching specific parts. I know what
> features I want. And anyone who has any experinece building ysstems
> would know that researching won't tell you every specific
> configuration problem you will have, because all systems are not
> exactly the same.

Get an nForce2 Ultra 400 board, specifically a Soltek one. I'm yet to have
*any* configuration problems with one.

Intel is over-priced shite anyway.

--
~misfit~

Ext User(~misfit~)
04-10-2011, 10:09 AM
Darren Harris wrote:

You sir, are an idiot. One of the most knowledgable people in this NG is
trying to give you good advice and you are insulting him.

You haven't built a PC and you are rubbishing someone who does it for a
living? Try alt.computer.hardware.just-dreaming.
--
~misfit~

Ext User(kony)
04-10-2011, 10:09 AM
On 6 Mar 2004 14:15:48 -0800, Searcher7@mail.con2.com (Darren Harris)
wrote:


>Well "Dick Sidbury" and "Christopher Pollard" answered my question.
>But then again. unlike you, they understood it.

You're not the brightest bulb in the socket are you?
You asked a question that you expected would have a clear, black and
white, true or false answer, then got all wound up when your ignorance
prevents you from understanding that:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The (issue of configuration problems) involves more variables than just
whether the features are integrated or not, and an ever increasing number
of variables with your plan to later upgrade.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You seemed to insist that I provide the answer you wanted instead of an
accurate one. There's only so much I can dumb down an answer so someone
who can't even get a single system built, so that they will understand it,
without it being an overly misleading or inaccurate response.

Ext User(Erez Volach)
04-10-2011, 10:09 AM
"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoomung.co.nz> wrote in message
news:BBh1c.633$Nc3.9611@news.xtra.co.nz...
> DaveW wrote:
>
> <top posting fixed>
>
> > "Darren Harris" <Searcher7@mail.con2.com> wrote in message
> > news:9437a27c.0403011416.57a6a793@posting.google.c om...
> >> Can anyone tell if if integrated options on a motherbaord, like
> >> video, audio, firewire, ect., a better idea than using add-on cards
> >> if the priority is to avoid configuration problems when building a
> >> system?
> >>
> >> Thanks a lot.
> >>
> >> Darren Harris
> >> Staten Island, New York.
>
> > On-board video is a VERY bad idea. It uses a cheap video chipset
> > that runs 3D poorly and puts a real strain on the CPU and system RAM
> > that slows the system down.
>
> What a wide ranging and crap statement that is! If office use is all the
> machine is going to be used for then on-board graphics are fine. If it's a
> home machine and a little light gaming may come into it then an nForce 2
> mobo with integrated GeForce 4 graphics may be more than adequate.
>
> I'm into gaming and wouldn't personally use on-board graphics but also I
> wouldn't make such a broad statement as you did without knowing to what
use
> the computer is going to be put.
>
> The question was quantified by "if the priority is to avoid configuration
> problems when building a system". Doesn't say jack about gaming there does
> it?
> --
> ~misfit~
>
>
Generally speaking, most connectivity options are better (or just as well)
supported when integrated, compated to add-on cards. That includes IDE
(ATA), SATA, RAID, FireWire, USB2, sound etc...
Performance wise, they should all be similar to the equivalent discrete
device, except that it takes some more CPU cycles for the integrated device.
There is a significant difference if the device has fully independant
controllers and DSPs or is partly dependant on host processor.
Video cards are a bit of exception to this as they also stress the memory
subsystem (integrated ones rely on system memory). Almost any other device
uses PCI bus either on board (with traces going to southbridge) or discrete
(through PCI/ISA slot).
As mentioned earlier, the most advanced onboard video is nFORCE 2's, which
is equivalen to a GeForce4MX-440 (more or less), but even comparing that to
its equivalent, the discrete device puts not stress on system memory, and
probably less stress on CPU.

Ext User(Darren Harris)
04-10-2011, 10:09 AM
"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoomung.co.nz> wrote in message news:<F6u2c.4361$Nc3.69196@news.xtra.co.nz>...
> Darren Harris wrote:
>
> You sir, are an idiot. One of the most knowledgable people in this NG is
> trying to give you good advice and you are insulting him.
>
> You haven't built a PC and you are rubbishing someone who does it for a
> living? Try alt.computer.hardware.just-dreaming.

No. You're an idiot.

My question was answered a long time ago by others, and he is just
trying to push my buttons.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Ext User(Erez Volach)
04-10-2011, 10:09 AM
"~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoomung.co.nz> wrote in message
news:BBh1c.633$Nc3.9611@news.xtra.co.nz...
> DaveW wrote:
>
> <top posting fixed>
>
> > "Darren Harris" <Searcher7@mail.con2.com> wrote in message
> > news:9437a27c.0403011416.57a6a793@posting.google.c om...
> >> Can anyone tell if if integrated options on a motherbaord, like
> >> video, audio, firewire, ect., a better idea than using add-on cards
> >> if the priority is to avoid configuration problems when building a
> >> system?
> >>
> >> Thanks a lot.
> >>
> >> Darren Harris
> >> Staten Island, New York.
>
> > On-board video is a VERY bad idea. It uses a cheap video chipset
> > that runs 3D poorly and puts a real strain on the CPU and system RAM
> > that slows the system down.
>
> What a wide ranging and crap statement that is! If office use is all the
> machine is going to be used for then on-board graphics are fine. If it's a
> home machine and a little light gaming may come into it then an nForce 2
> mobo with integrated GeForce 4 graphics may be more than adequate.
>
> I'm into gaming and wouldn't personally use on-board graphics but also I
> wouldn't make such a broad statement as you did without knowing to what
use
> the computer is going to be put.
>
> The question was quantified by "if the priority is to avoid configuration
> problems when building a system". Doesn't say jack about gaming there does
> it?
> --
> ~misfit~
>
>
Generally speaking, most connectivity options are better (or just as well)
supported when integrated, compated to add-on cards. That includes IDE
(ATA), SATA, RAID, FireWire, USB2, sound etc...
Performance wise, they should all be similar to the equivalent discrete
device, except that it takes some more CPU cycles for the integrated device.
There is a significant difference if the device has fully independant
controllers and DSPs or is partly dependant on host processor.
Video cards are a bit of exception to this as they also stress the memory
subsystem (integrated ones rely on system memory). Almost any other device
uses PCI bus either on board (with traces going to southbridge) or discrete
(through PCI/ISA slot).
As mentioned earlier, the most advanced onboard video is nFORCE 2's, which
is equivalen to a GeForce4MX-440 (more or less), but even comparing that to
its equivalent, the discrete device puts not stress on system memory, and
probably less stress on CPU.

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