XMS-888 - Mpeg4 - Firmware?

[foultaste]

It may not be an issue on all players, but I'm sure time will tell. As andw suggested it may be that some players have greater tolerance and the heat has not presented itself as a problem ( I'm pretty sure that andw doesn't live in a fridge) and I know that the one that I have been testing is sitting on carpet and is covered in junk with no airflow at all and it hasn't been an issue. If it does prove to be an issue then they may get fitted with a heatsink if that is what is deemed appropriate. So far the return rate is has been very low which suggests that not all players have been suffering this issue. I'm sure we would be hearing about it given the weather that we have had lately.

Okay, well I guess its back to strathy for me for a swap over....

Oh....and btw, thanks V205!:)

[V205]

The interesting thing is that this heat issue only presents itself when initially starting the playback, like there's a high CPU load to determine the type of encoding.

I've noticed that after it starts playing... it no longer shows heat problems like going to 'disc error' in the middle of mpeg4 playback.



It may not be an issue on all players, but I'm sure time will tell. As andw suggested it may be that some players have greater tolerance and the heat has not presented itself as a problem ( I'm pretty sure that andw doesn't live in a fridge) and I know that the one that I have been testing is sitting on carpet and is covered in junk with no airflow at all and it hasn't been an issue. If it does prove to be an issue then they may get fitted with a heatsink if that is what is deemed appropriate. So far the return rate is has been very low which suggests that not all players have been suffering this issue. I'm sure we would be hearing about it given the weather that we have had lately.

[andw]

Thanks for testing that foultaste, I think your tests are pretty definitive.
(you can swap your player now :p )
It certainly sounds as if the next batch should come with a heatsink fitted.

I don't live in a fridge (unfortunately), I am waiting to move house in a few months before getting aircon, so this house is VERY hot here in Perth on most days over the last couple of months. (40+ outside, not much cooler inside).
My main PC (AMD Athlon 2400) starts screaming that it's CPU is too hot, and it's going to blow up, if I'm doing anything more basic than web browsing on hot days. (come to think of it so does my brain).
But... my XMS-888 continues to plug along happily.
My theory is that it is a tolerance issue on the main chip heating up (and your tests seem to confirm that).
I'm guessing from people who have taken their players back for 'disc read errors' who have posted in this thread, that if the overheating issue is happening on say 10-20% (just plucking random figures out of the air), then the reason that swapping for another that they test in the shop is working, as they have about a 80-90% chance of getting one 'within tolerance' (again just plucking figures out of the air).
So, based on other peoples experience, take some discs down, get them to plug one in, and test all of your discs for 10-20 minutes.
And then swap swap swap.
Maybe when jok11n's team gets them back in Sydney, they can put heatsinks on them. :)

[andw]

.... So far the return rate is has been very low which suggests that not all players have been suffering this issue. I'm sure we would be hearing about it given the weather that we have had lately.
Well, based on that , my 10-20% is way too high then, maybe it's only 1-5%.
(again I'm still only pulling figures out of the air)

[jokiin]

The interesting thing is that this heat issue only presents itself when initially starting the playback, like there's a high CPU load to determine the type of encoding.

I've noticed that after it starts playing... it no longer shows heat problems like going to 'disc error' in the middle of mpeg4 playback.

What you suggest is logical, it's also likely that once the firmware issues are resolved and the player actually knows what to do with some of these files that the problem may not be an issue anymore. Hopefully the firmware will be sorted soon and we will know for sure.

[V205]

What do you reckon is the best way for the factory to mount a heatsink on it?

Glue / Thermal Compound mixture? (semi-permanent solution..)

Or some kind of brace to hold the heatsink down somehow?

I wouldn't mind a proper factory solution to be viable instead of doing whatever I'm doing now to keep it cool.





Thanks for testing that foultaste, I think your tests are pretty definitive.
(you can swap your player now :p )
It certainly sounds as if the next batch should come with a heatsink fitted.

I don't live in a fridge (unfortunately), I am waiting to move house in a few months before getting aircon, so this house is VERY hot here in Perth on most days over the last couple of months. (40+ outside, not much cooler inside).
My main PC (AMD Athlon 2400) starts screaming that it's CPU is too hot, and it's going to blow up, if I'm doing anything more basic than web browsing on hot days. (come to think of it so does my brain).
But... my XMS-888 continues to plug along happily.
My theory is that it is a tolerance issue on the main chip heating up (and your tests seem to confirm that).
I'm guessing from people who have taken their players back for 'disc read errors' who have posted in this thread, that if the overheating issue is happening on say 10-20% (just plucking random figures out of the air), then the reason that swapping for another that they test in the shop is working, as they have about a 80-90% chance of getting one 'within tolerance' (again just plucking figures out of the air).
So, based on other peoples experience, take some discs down, get them to plug one in, and test all of your discs for 10-20 minutes.
And then swap swap swap.
Maybe when jok11n's team gets them back in Sydney, they can put heatsinks on them. :)

[V205]

Foultaste is a perfect candidate to try your 1.2b firmware if he's game... and see if it solves the 'disc error' without extra cooling.

FT?? :)




What you suggest is logical, it's also likely that once the firmware issues are resolved and the player actually knows what to do with some of these files that the problem may not be an issue anymore. Hopefully the firmware will be sorted soon and we will know for sure.

[jokiin]

What do you reckon is the best way for the factory to mount a heatsink on it?

Glue / Thermal Compound mixture? (semi-permanent solution..)

Or some kind of brace to hold the heatsink down somehow?

I wouldn't mind a proper factory solution to be viable instead of doing whatever I'm doing now to keep it cool.

They are generally attached with a thermal glue

[jokiin]

Foultaste is a perfect candidate to try your 1.2b firmware if he's game... and see if it solves the 'disc error' without extra cooling.

FT?? :)

Quite possibly, although he may want to wait for the next release firmware.

[foultaste]

Quite possibly, although he may want to wait for the next release firmware.

Hehe...I've already been down to Strathy with my discs in hand and have come back with a unit that I hope is more tolerant with my environment!:)

The disc error issue was one of my biggest gripes, so if that is resolved with the exchange then apart from some other small things such as VBR MP3 and the test tones, I will be pretty happy to wait for the final release.

I'm off to do some testing.

cheers.

[LastActionZero]

Hi all.

Interesting findings on heat tolerance.
I want to add fuel to the fire with a reverse symptom!

Background:
I returned my first player after noticing that some commercial DVDs came up with 'disc error'. Sometimes they would work, others they wouldn't.
[Originally thought it was related to damaged discs, but have since experienced it on totally new discs]

Unfortunately, this second player has the same symptoms.
[It was extremely hard to get the first unit swapped over, so I'm reluctant to go back]

But now I've noted something new:
With these trouble DVDs, letting the unit warm up for a while (e.g. playing a burnt divx disc for a few minutes) then trying the problem DVDs works!!!

It's very annoying.
And as has been posted, once a disc is read properly, it plays just fine.
It is just the original reading that has issues.

Well, I'm not sure that the firmware will address this, and in my case a heatsink should make matters worse :rolleyes: , but fingers crossed.

Cheers,
Laz.

[andw]

Good grief laz, that's bad. I've got no troubles with DVD's either. (or VCD's or SVCD's).
The only DVD's I've had trouble with also wouldn't play on 2 PC's (rental discs).
And one of mine with grotty children fingers all over it, that worked fine after a little Spray&Wipe.

[jokiin]

Hi all.

Interesting findings on heat tolerance.
I want to add fuel to the fire with a reverse symptom!

Background:
I returned my first player after noticing that some commercial DVDs came up with 'disc error'. Sometimes they would work, others they wouldn't.
[Originally thought it was related to damaged discs, but have since experienced it on totally new discs]

Unfortunately, this second player has the same symptoms.
[It was extremely hard to get the first unit swapped over, so I'm reluctant to go back]

But now I've noted something new:
With these trouble DVDs, letting the unit warm up for a while (e.g. playing a burnt divx disc for a few minutes) then trying the problem DVDs works!!!

It's very annoying.
And as has been posted, once a disc is read properly, it plays just fine.
It is just the original reading that has issues.

Well, I'm not sure that the firmware will address this, and in my case a heatsink should make matters worse :rolleyes: , but fingers crossed.

Cheers,
Laz.

If you can put up with it for now until the next firmware is officially released and see if your problem is due to file format issues would be good. If it turns out that the problem is not firmware related and it is a hardware issue contact me off list with your invoice number and I will arrange to have your player swapped over (without the hassles)

[LastActionZero]

If you can put up with it for now until the next firmware is officially released and see if your problem is due to file format issues would be good. If it turns out that the problem is not firmware related and it is a hardware issue contact me off list with your invoice number and I will arrange to have your player swapped over (without the hassles)

I'm in no rush. And many thanks for the offer.
Cheers,
Laz.

[V205]

In case it hasn't been said enough... please have OSD off by default in all visual playbacks (vcd/svcd/dvd/mpeg4 etc) in 1.2 firmware. :>

edit: spelling

[pepito]

Still haven't seen those files yet, have you forwarded them on yet? If you are having trouble with the file sizes through email let me know and i'll give you some details to ftp them to me instead if that's easier.


Uploading files to your FTP site as we type :)


Keep up the good work Jok11n.

[buts]

I don't know how important this issue but it seems that the player has problems with non-interleaved avi files. I've got a movie with no sound. After some experiments I concluded that the problem in A/V interleaving. Gspot showed on this file with no sound:
Option 1. I/L: None or Not Determined Split: Yes (What's the Split by the way ?)
Then I created a sample where I unchecked interleaving in VirtualDub. Now Gspot produced:
Option 2. I/L: None or Not Determined Split: No.
For this sample audio played but no video :) Both files play fine on PC.
I don't know how to produce a sample with Option 1, i.e with a "Split: Yes".
It seems that XMS-888 doesn't play correctly files with non-proper or without
A/V interleaving. It's definitely a firmware issue but maybe it is not that
crucial. Can someone confirm this ?

Edit: I also have breaking sound problems with another file:
I/L: 250 ms (6.3 v.frames), p=480 Split: No

[davidf]

Possibly the heat issue is related to the power unit rather than the decoder chip itself. The chipset would be reasonably stable across all the players or reasonably unstable across all players if that was the case. I would assume that qa on the chipset is controlled by the manufacturer of the chip. I would hazard a guess that the power unit is probably tested( or not) by the XMS manufacturer if the power unit is not up to scratch this to would need cooling and the effects of a poor power unit is basically everything will play up. So maybe bad loaders poor decoding all come back to the power supply itself. Also the number of 'dead' or quasi dead players reported would also lead me to think the power units are the cause.

[V205]

Some of us have put on a heatsink on the decoder chip and solve the 'disc error' issue though. I guess the easiesest thing for anyone having this problem is to just blow some cool air (via fan etc) into the right side vent of the player and see if it solves the problem. If it does, then consider the options on getting it resolved more permanently.


Possibly the heat issue is related to the power unit rather than the decoder chip itself. The chipset would be reasonably stable across all the players or reasonably unstable across all players if that was the case. I would assume that qa on the chipset is controlled by the manufacturer of the chip. I would hazard a guess that the power unit is probably tested( or not) by the XMS manufacturer if the power unit is not up to scratch this to would need cooling and the effects of a poor power unit is basically everything will play up. So maybe bad loaders poor decoding all come back to the power supply itself. Also the number of 'dead' or quasi dead players reported would also lead me to think the power units are the cause.

[jokiin]

Possibly the heat issue is related to the power unit rather than the decoder chip itself. The chipset would be reasonably stable across all the players or reasonably unstable across all players if that was the case. I would assume that qa on the chipset is controlled by the manufacturer of the chip. I would hazard a guess that the power unit is probably tested( or not) by the XMS manufacturer if the power unit is not up to scratch this to would need cooling and the effects of a poor power unit is basically everything will play up. So maybe bad loaders poor decoding all come back to the power supply itself. Also the number of 'dead' or quasi dead players reported would also lead me to think the power units are the cause.

Power supplies are regulated so i'm not sure that they would have this effect, I'll follow up and get some feedback on what the techs have found on the ones that have been returned.