View Full Version : XMS-888 - Mpeg4 - Firmware?
I don't know how important this issue but it seems that the player has problems with non-interleaved avi files. I've got a movie with no sound. After some experiments I concluded that the problem in A/V interleaving. Gspot showed on this file with no sound:
Option 1. I/L: None or Not Determined Split: Yes (What's the Split by the way ?)
Then I created a sample where I unchecked interleaving in VirtualDub. Now Gspot produced:
Option 2. I/L: None or Not Determined Split: No.
For this sample audio played but no video :) Both files play fine on PC.
I don't know how to produce a sample with Option 1, i.e with a "Split: Yes".
It seems that XMS-888 doesn't play correctly files with non-proper or without
A/V interleaving. It's definitely a firmware issue but maybe it is not that
crucial. Can someone confirm this ?
Edit: I also have breaking sound problems with another file:
I/L: 250 ms (6.3 v.frames), p=480 Split: No
Hi buts, just about all of the files I sent up to jok11n were like this or similar:
1 vid frame (40 ms) Split: Yes (with the split)
Some of these are low frequency CBR and do not play audio, but quite a few I sent up had 44khz 192 kb/s (96/ch, stereo) CBR and played fine, these were only sent up to show the different aspect ratio problems.
The only ones I have that have 'split: no' (1 vid frame (42 ms), p=480 Split: No 126 kb/s (63/ch, stereo) VBR LAME3.92 48000 Hz) are some I get, and have Variable bitrate. These play fine as well (except for the occassional syching problem that seems to happen on VBR stuff)...
So far, the only files I have that don't play audio, are either low frequency MP3 encoded, or with something like PCM, which does not appear to be supported....
Hi buts, just about all of the files I sent up to jok11n were like this or similar:
1 vid frame (40 ms) Split: Yes (with the split)
Some of these are low frequency CBR and do not play audio, but quite a few I sent up had 44khz 192 kb/s (96/ch, stereo) CBR and played fine, these were only sent up to show the different aspect ratio problems.
The only ones I have that have 'split: no' (1 vid frame (42 ms), p=480 Split: No 126 kb/s (63/ch, stereo) VBR LAME3.92 48000 Hz) are some I get, and have Variable bitrate. These play fine as well (except for the occassional syching problem that seems to happen on VBR stuff)...
So far, the only files I have that don't play audio, are either low frequency MP3 encoded, or with something like PCM, which does not appear to be supported....
Hi, andw. Do you know how to setup 'split' to yes or no with I/L enabled
(disabled) in VirtualDub during saving ? After my experiments I've got two 700 Mb files, they differ only by a split: Yes and No. Size difference is 120 bytes.
The first one has audio, the second doesn't. When I enable I/L, I get
autmatically Split:Yes, when I disable it, Split is No. I don't understand
how to produce a file with no I/L and Split:Yes like the first one.
Ye ... and I've got some DivX disks bought overseas which have these problems -> no audio.
Hi, andw. Do you know how to setup 'split' to yes or no with I/L enabled
(disabled) in VirtualDub during saving ? After my experiments I've got two 700 Mb files, they differ only by a split: Yes and No. Size difference is 120 bytes.
The first one has audio, the second doesn't. When I enable I/L, I get
autmatically Split:Yes, when I disable it, Split is No. I don't understand
how to produce a file with no I/L and Split:Yes like the first one.
Ye ... and I've got some DivX disks bought overseas which have these problems -> no audio.
Short answer is 'no I don't'.
Are you creating these files from ones you have made, or splitting ones that have somehow magically appeared on your PC ;) .
If your making them, what are you using to make them, I use DVDx, or FairUse wizard, as I find them easy to use, and they seem to do everything for me.
If they are of the magical variety, I presume you are splitting them to go onto 2 cd's. What does the source say it has in it's properties?
(If you can let me know what the sources properties are to start with, I'll see if I can find a file similar that I have, and try splitting it, and see what I come up with.)
Have you tried a 'Direct Stream Copy' on both the Audio and Video, and manually set the start and end markers (on key frames), and then 'File - Save as AVI'?
Have you tried a 'Direct Stream Copy' on both the Audio and Video, and manually set the start and end markers (on key frames), and then 'File - Save as AVI'?
Yes, I do it exactly like that. However, depending on I/L options you still
get different results with the same markers (and different file sizes). So
it's not a "direct" piece of the original file in some sense. Let me make it clear:
VirtualDub with I/L enabled produces: 1. I/L: ... ms Split:Yes; (these are the only files which don't cause any trouble as I understand);
with I/L disabled: 2. I/L: No interleave, Split: No.
However, I have mixed files: 3. with I/L: No interleave, Split: Yes . This one I created myself using DivX 4.0 and some early version of VirtualDub about two years ago. Naturally I don't remember options I used and can't reproduce it
with a current VirtualDub. This file plays without sound.
4. with I/L: .... ms, Split: No. These files were bought overseas on DivX CD
with some encoded serials. I don't know how to produce them either.
They have breaking sound.
So VirtaulDub changes files of types 3, 4 to 1, 2 depending on you I/L choice.
pepito
10-02-2004, 12:05 PM
Have you tried a 'Direct Stream Copy' on both the Audio and Video, and manually set the start and end markers (on key frames), and then 'File - Save as AVI'?
How important is it to set the markers on "key frames" (whatever they are) because I didnt do that for the chunk of video I sent Jok11n.
I have found that on some (only a very few) that I didn't set the marker on the key frame (at least the start marker), I got corrupted video on playback on my PC. (didn't try on the XMS).
My limited uderstanding of 'key frames' are that they are a 'complete' copy of a picture, whereas other frames in the mpeg format are just the 'changes' to the original 'key frame', or the frame previous to itself. If there is a major scene change for example, a new 'key' frame will be written, if it's just a head on the screen talking, then just the changes will be written (mouth changed, eyes blinked, whatever).(someone with better knowledge please correct me if I'm wrong).
This allows the Mpeg format to be as small as it is (compared to storing every picture frame).
Some of the Mpeg-4 encoders have settings in their advanced sections, that allow you to set the maximum number of picture frames (or maximum time) between the key frames.
In Virtualdub, you can go to where you want to start from, and then click on the icon that has a picture of an arrow with a little key on it, to go to the next or previous key frame.
I think it's just better for the players to start with a complete picture, before they start making changes to it (presumably, it would otherwise just have some random blocks until the next 'key frame').
DivX 5.1.1 default is maximum of 300 frames between key frames.
pepito
10-02-2004, 01:21 PM
thanks for that andw.
Yes, I do it exactly like that. However, depending on I/L options you still
get different results with the same markers (and different file sizes). So
it's not a "direct" piece of the original file in some sense. Let me make it clear:
VirtualDub with I/L enabled produces: 1. I/L: ... ms Split:Yes; (these are the only files which don't cause any trouble as I understand);
with I/L disabled: 2. I/L: No interleave, Split: No.
However, I have mixed files: 3. with I/L: No interleave, Split: Yes . This one I created myself using DivX 4.0 and some early version of VirtualDub about two years ago. Naturally I don't remember options I used and can't reproduce it
with a current VirtualDub. This file plays without sound.
4. with I/L: .... ms, Split: No. These files were bought overseas on DivX CD
with some encoded serials. I don't know how to produce them either.
They have breaking sound.
So VirtaulDub changes files of types 3, 4 to 1, 2 depending on you I/L choice.
Sorry buts, I don't know how to reproduce that. (maybe someone else can?)
I believe that the manufacturer has some DivX encoded CD's that they have for testing, possibly of the same type of the ones you have.
Perhaps if you PM jok11n with the titles, he can suggest them to the manufacturer for testing (if they can source them).
lat3ralis
10-02-2004, 04:14 PM
How important is it to set the markers on "key frames" (whatever they are) because I didnt do that for the chunk of video I sent Jok11n.
Just a clarification regarding key frames ...
Andw's description of key frames (i-frames) is correct. Basically, an i-frame contains a full frame and a number of p-frames/b-frames follow. P-frames (predicted) are basically frames that represent changes from the previous frame. B-frames (bi-directional predictive) are similar, but represent changes between previous and following b/p-frames. You can find out more about I,P and B frames here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19436). Anyway, the point is that you cannot cut on a non key frame, as there would not be enough information to decode the p/b-frames that lead up to the next key frame. AFAIK, if you cut on a non key frame in virtualdub, it should find the nearest key frame and cut from there onwards.
A handy tip ....
If you hold shift when moving the slider in virtualdub, it will only move to keyframes making navigation of video files much faster. Also, by using this method of navigation, you are guaranteed to be cutting on key frames.
Hope that helps,
lat3ralis
jokiin
10-02-2004, 04:28 PM
Just a clarification regarding key frames ...
A handy tip ....
If you hold shift when moving the slider in virtualdub, it will only move to keyframes making navigation of video files much faster. Also, by using this method of navigation, you are guaranteed to be cutting on key frames.
Hope that helps,
lat3ralis
Now that is a handy tip, see you do learn something new every day.
pepito
10-02-2004, 04:51 PM
Now that is a handy tip, see you do learn something new every day.
Yep, great feature I didnt know about either. Also good for previewing to see if a movie is worth watching :)
btw jok11n, how much bandwidth you got? ;)
I wouldnt mind uploading you an MPEG2 file that plays fine as a SVCD on a CDR disc (with all SVCD folders intact) but if video file from the /mpeg2 folder is placed on a DVD root directory on its own screws up trying to play on the XMS888.
Same file plays fine like this on a mate's el cheapo Digitrex DVD player.
File is 800Mb though so I'll ask first before uploading :)
jokiin
10-02-2004, 05:12 PM
Yep, great feature I didnt know about either. Also good for previewing to see if a movie is worth watching :)
btw jok11n, how much bandwidth you got? ;)
I wouldnt mind uploading you an MPEG2 file that plays fine as a SVCD on a CDR disc (with all SVCD folders intact) but if video file from the /mpeg2 folder is placed on a DVD root directory on its own screws up trying to play on the XMS888.
Same file plays fine like this on a mate's el cheapo Digitrex DVD player.
File is 800Mb though so I'll ask first before uploading :)
Bandwidth is no problem, go for your life. Not sure what you are using but I would suggest using an ftp client for a large file like that.
pepito
10-02-2004, 06:59 PM
Bandwidth is no problem, go for your life. Not sure what you are using but I would suggest using an ftp client for a large file like that.
Yep, using Cuteftp. File is on its way :)
Bandwidth is no problem, go for your life. Not sure what you are using but I would suggest using an ftp client for a large file like that.
Hi, Jok11n.
Finally I was able to produce two samples, 8 Mb each. They both have
audio 48khz, 160 kbs, i.e. high-bitrate files. One of them is A/V interleaved and the other is not. They both play fine on PC. Non-interleaved sample comes out with 'codec not supported error'. I was not able to reproduce a playable sample out of 700 mb CD with no sound. I can't upload the whole disk. Can you send me your ftp details to upload these samples ?
jokiin
10-02-2004, 10:38 PM
Hi, Jok11n.
Finally I was able to produce two samples, 8 Mb each. They both have
audio 48khz, 160 kbs, i.e. high-bitrate files. One of them is A/V interleaved and the other is not. They both play fine on PC. Non-interleaved sample comes out with 'codec not supported error'. I was not able to reproduce a playable sample out of 700 mb CD with no sound. I can't upload the whole disk. Can you send me your ftp details to upload these samples ?
Pm sent with details
foultaste
10-02-2004, 11:16 PM
Hi people,
The new replacement player is working flawlessly as far as disc errors go. The only thing I have noticed that this new player seems to have wrong since I flashed up to 1.1 is that when ever I enable the EQ I get a very loud screeching which if not careful could easily damage your speakers and/or your ears. The only way to stop this is to not use the EQ, which I am happy to do. I can't recall, anyone having this issue before, any idea's? Perhaps a reflash might help?
Also slightly off topic and this may be a really dumb question, but is there any way to tell using Gspot or some similar tool how many passes an avi file has been encoded with?. I seem to remember a forum somewhere, where someone said their was with Gspot but they didn't enlarge, can someone enlighten me perhaps pleeeese?
Cheers,
Foul.
jokiin
10-02-2004, 11:27 PM
Hi people,
The new replacement player is working flawlessly as far as disc errors go. The only thing I have noticed that this new player seems to have wrong since I flashed up to 1.1 is that when ever I enable the EQ I get a very loud screeching which if not careful could easily damage your speakers and/or your ears. The only way to stop this is to not use the EQ, which I am happy to do. I can't recall, anyone having this issue before, any idea's? Perhaps a reflash might help?
Also slightly off topic and this may be a really dumb question, but is there any way to tell using Gspot or some similar tool how many passes an avi file has been encoded with?. I seem to remember a forum somewhere, where someone said their was with Gspot but they didn't enlarge, can someone enlighten me perhaps pleeeese?
Cheers,
Foul.
I haven't heard any reports of screeching when using the eq, certainly sounds odd. You could try reflashing although I don't know if that will help. What type of file is it that you are playing when you get the screech, or is it all files? You may want to try alternate firmware and see if the screeching persists, contact me if you want to try something else.
I remember reading about an app that identified how many passes but I don't think it was gspot, I do have some other apps also, I'll see if any of those have the details you're looking for.
The new replacement player is working flawlessly as far as disc errors go.
Great to hear foultaste! I have not had even 1 "disk error" reported at all since I got my player a few weeks ago, and I have tried quite a few different brand media in it, both cheap and expensive stuff, and flavours in between! It is good to hear that those of you who have had problems have been able to resolve them with a replacement unit.
As far as the heat issue causing the disk error problems for you (great work on that experiment you conducted :) ), my player sits directly on top of my Technics SA-AX730 amp, which is notorious for the heat it produces (I'm talking fry an egg stuff), and as I said above - no probs! Guess it just depends on the unit / components you get.
Could it be that perhaps there was a batch of faulty drive units that came through (the "ca-chunk" noise could point to this). Maybe the drives don't seat themselves perfectly in alignment with the laser head, especially when there is heat (expansion and all that). With the index for avi's being at the end of the file, therefore in most cases towards the end of the CD (I think I'm right here, anyone?), perhaps the laser can't reach the index or find exactly where it is on the CD properly, so reports "desk error? Then after numerous re-tries of drive tray out and back in, it manages to align correctly and finds the index? I think someone mentioned this never happened with DVD's and VCD's, perhaps because the drive doesn't have to find and read an index first for these formats. And from what I've read, once the avi's start playing, they play fine. Maybe this is because the issue is only with finding the index initially, once the index is found, it reads the file from beginning / start of the CD without problems.
Dunno, I'm just guessing... :dD
FT,
I also experienced the screeching sound with the equalizer on. However, I only noticed it with the 2 file version of Matr*x - Revo. Will check on a few other files when I get home today and report back.
Hi people,
The new replacement player is working flawlessly as far as disc errors go. The only thing I have noticed that this new player seems to have wrong since I flashed up to 1.1 is that when ever I enable the EQ I get a very loud screeching which if not careful could easily damage your speakers and/or your ears. The only way to stop this is to not use the EQ, which I am happy to do. I can't recall, anyone having this issue before, any idea's? Perhaps a reflash might help?
Also slightly off topic and this may be a really dumb question, but is there any way to tell using Gspot or some similar tool how many passes an avi file has been encoded with?. I seem to remember a forum somewhere, where someone said their was with Gspot but they didn't enlarge, can someone enlighten me perhaps pleeeese?
Cheers,
Foul.
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