OT: Car stereos

[Rick]

I bet noone has thought of asking this kind of thing for a long time, if
ever. I'm from Adelaide so please try to base any answers on what is
available here, but anything else of doubt can be mentioned as well. If you
also have any websites that help to determine what is really needed in a car
stereo system, this will help as well (although I'm sure this is completely
subject to the person writing their reviews ;).

Anyway, I'm after some advice for choosing, buying and installing a car
stereo CD system. I am not your typical tub-thumper who delights in having
his car bouncing up and down across the street, just someone who enjoys a
quality sound at a decent price (if there is such a thing when the labour
charge is added on top ;). I'm trying to keep the compentry down to $1000 or
below (the installation is almost 50% more ontop of this, darnit!).

What I simply want is a good quality sounding system that does the job
all-round without too much extravagance. I will tell you what I have
discovered so far from what I've heard in the stores so far and maybe you
can help me in deciding on the brands (if not the stores to buy from) that
will help in assembling my dream system.

I was almost going to go with some decent 2-way or 3-way speakers until I
heard these fantastic sounding "split speaker" systems (which are like the
ones found in any home hifi satellite speakers actually). These sounded
much better than the all-in-one speakers available, however the splits do
cost 3-5 times more than the all-inbuilt varities. I have heard the Fusion
and Pioneer models and both are equally impressive (at about $270 for one
pair).

Next I was about to settle on two 6x9" speakers to handle some of the bass
quotient, but have now realised the benefit of even a small 10" or larger
12" subwoofer with a half-decent amp to run them with, so this is probably
the way to go. I've seen the Sony Xplode and VCSS models (along with Jensen
and Boss etc) at some good prices, but are not sure which ones might help to
create a more defined bass rather than a muddy thump-thump - I am only after
something that will round out the sound from bass to treble rather than
drowning myself out in sweaty techno-crap music. The amp's I have seen in
action are from Sony, Alpine and Boss which pretty much seem the same to me
atm. So in total: sub in box and amplifier usually amounts to about $500.

Finally, the CD deck. I want to get an MP3 CD one, so I have found equally
good JVC and Pioneer models for around $300 each. I will no doubt want to
get a 4-channel amp to power the two speakers with though. I play mainly
live band type of music and only the smallest amount of electronica to keep
me happy.

I've looked at all the usual stores like Strathfield, Tonkins and Autobarn
but am not sure what other stores that I might want to consider. Anyway, I'm
just wondering if anyone has had any horror stories in particular with
anything they bought and would like to tell me to avoid at all costs - at
least then I'll know what I shouldn't get since this might be easier than
recommending what I should get.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[TC]

Hi Rick,

Im with you on this one mate, I don't like the thump thump, but appreciate clean, quality music (Ive
been listening to REM non stop over the last few weeks). Ill outline my system for you and you can
go from there.

Front : Sony XPlod 5.25" 2-way + Jaycar peizo tweeters.
Rear : Pioneer 6x9" 3-ways.
Subs : 2 x Kicker Impulse 10"
Amps: 1 x Philips DAP4040 + 1 x Kenwood KA628
Deck : JVC MP3 (The $300 one....)

What Ive noticed with my setup is that the rear 6x9s really dont offer a whole lot of treble due to
the directional nature of high frequency sounds. For that reason, the front speakers with the
seperate peizos (essentially splits) are a very important part of the outfit as they provide around
80% of the discernable treb. You may want to look at JBLs for your front splits (Ive only heard good
things).

The subs as youve mentioned are fantastic for adding a bit of power to any song..... Depending on
the music you like, go for a 10" or 12" (12" is better suited to hip hop, 10" techno and rock). I
like the kicker units as they have stitched cones, and just LOOK like they are very well made. Ive
heard mixed reviews about the cheaper Sony's.

As for the deck, go the Pioneer MP3. I had a Pioneer CD deck before the JVC and I loved it. The JVC
is a lot more fussy, skips more than the Pioneer and isn't as configurable IMO.

Good luck with it all though.... it certainly can be done on a budget. My whole setup cost around
$800 and sounds as fantastic pumping through 180bpm techno as it does "everybody hurts" by REM. :)

Cheers,

TW

[Codswallop]

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:17:27 GMT, Rick wrote in aus.dvd:

> Anyway, I'm after some advice for choosing, buying and installing a
> car stereo CD system. 'm trying to keep the compentry down to $1000
> or below (the installation is almost 50% more ontop of this, darnit!).

Firstly, you can install it yourself. It's actually not that hard --
especially if your vehicle has already got the same or similar sized
speakers. It's mainly just running cables. Sure, building boxes and
stuff is more difficult (except for subs, more on that in a bit) but in
many cases you don't have to bother.

$1000 isn't really a lot for a stereo, so if you're planning $1500
total, chop out the installation and save the money.


> I was almost going to go with some decent 2-way or 3-way speakers
> until I heard these fantastic sounding "split speaker" systems (which
> are like the ones found in any home hifi satellite speakers actually).

Yep, glad you noticed this. Split systems are much better, also, you
can place the tweeters in the dash for better positional sound,
depending on your car's layout.


> Next I was about to settle on two 6x9" speakers to handle some of the
> bass quotient, but have now realised the benefit of even a small 10"
> or larger 12" subwoofer with a half-decent amp to run them

Also a good realisation to come to. Many people buy rear speakers for
"rear fill" (i.e. so the rear passengers get to hear the music and not
just a "thump thump thump", but in a properly setup system they'll still
hear the treble and mids fine even without it.

So, just get one set of splits up the front and one or two subs at the
back. Given your budget, a single one is going to be best.


> Finally, the CD deck. I want to get an MP3 CD one, so I have found
> equally good JVC and Pioneer models for around $300 each. I will no
> doubt want to get a 4-channel amp to power the two speakers with
> though.

Well, most split systems come with a crossover. So you could get away
with a 2-channel amp and another small 2-channel (bridgeable to single)
for the sub(s). However, if you can stretch the budget to get a
4-channel amp, you'd be better off. The amp can act as the crossover
and will do a much better job, as you're running one channel to the
tweeters and to the mids as opposed to one to both, which is split
later.

Ignore whatever power the head unit puts out, if you can get one with 4v
or higher "preouts". Preferably with RCAs if you're doing it yourself.

Just splitting hairs here, but if you want the "best sound" only, then
having an mp3 player is kind of defeating that. Still, I wish my unit
had an mp3 player. ;)


> I've looked at all the usual stores like Strathfield, Tonkins and
> Autobarn but am not sure what other stores that I might want to
> consider

Where are you located? I know a few decent places in Victoria...

I would probably recommend Alpine gear on your budget. At least for the
head unit and sub, as well as amp(s). Don't forget to allocate some
money (at least $100 for a family-sized car) for decent cables/wire.

--
- Cods

pbqf_at@ubgznvy.pbz
(un ROT-13 to e-mail)

[Wil Hüging]

> I've looked at all the usual stores like Strathfield, Tonkins and Autobarn
> but am not sure what other stores that I might want to consider.

The only advice I can give is: Do not go to Strathfield.

There are some more "high-end" car audio shops around that should be better
help.

Have a look at Boston Acoustic car audio as well, which tend to give you
much better mid-range response than the usual high treble/high bass that is
popular with the people who think that is what music should sound like.

[Gadgets]

http://www.caraudioaustralia.com/site/

Some good info there...

Cheers, Jason - remove macrovision to reply : )

Fibre optic cable:
http://gadgets.shorturl.com

[milo]

"Gadgets" <gadgets@macrovision.jc.com.au> wrote in message
news:busetf$aj3$1@perki.connect.com.au...
> http://www.caraudioaustralia.com/site/
>
> Some good info there...
>
> Cheers, Jason - remove macrovision to reply : )
>
> Fibre optic cable:
> http://gadgets.shorturl.com

my unit is an alpine fm/am cd reciever CDA-9807 -cda-9805
mx mp3 windows media (what ever that means) cd text xm ready (what ever that
means)
the head unit only costed around the $520 mark , speekers around the
$130-200 mark
u dont need to spend a fortune on top sound just go on brands u know ,
alpine are usually pretty reliable
it also plays cdrs/rws too only thing i might ad is a stacker as it has cd
changer controls which is nice on holiday long distance travel and u couldnt
be botherd changing a cd while driving.

happy hunting

Milo
____

[BofH]

Then again, if you live in Sydney / Melbourne, you could get yourself a
Blaupunkt Woodstock 53 which lets you receive the DAB Digital Radio
broadcasts.

I've been quoted RRP of $999 on it from Blaupunkt Australia (the Woodstock
52 on their website is the old model)
http://www.blaupunkt.com.au/1_5.asp

Here is a link to the Woodstock 53's on Blaupunkt's UK website - It records
& reads MP3 from MMC cards as well as CD-R/CD/RW which could be useful for
you.
http://www.blaupunkt.co.uk/7641706310_main.asp

I'm sure with a bit of haggling you could get it for $900 or so - would
probably have to go to Blaupunkt direct on it though as I'm not sure if
anyone is stocking it yet.

It's probably much more than you were looking at spending but it would be a
nice brag item if you were in DAB broadcast range.. :)


"milo" <mrmiloman2003@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1074948715.797671@www.shoal.net.au...
>
> "Gadgets" <gadgets@macrovision.jc.com.au> wrote in message
> news:busetf$aj3$1@perki.connect.com.au...
> > http://www.caraudioaustralia.com/site/
> >
> > Some good info there...
> >
> > Cheers, Jason - remove macrovision to reply : )
> >
> > Fibre optic cable:
> > http://gadgets.shorturl.com
>
> my unit is an alpine fm/am cd reciever CDA-9807 -cda-9805
> mx mp3 windows media (what ever that means) cd text xm ready (what ever
that
> means)
> the head unit only costed around the $520 mark , speekers around the
> $130-200 mark
> u dont need to spend a fortune on top sound just go on brands u know ,
> alpine are usually pretty reliable
> it also plays cdrs/rws too only thing i might ad is a stacker as it has cd
> changer controls which is nice on holiday long distance travel and u
couldnt
> be botherd changing a cd while driving.
>
> happy hunting
>
> Milo
> ____
>
>

[Gadgets]

> mp3 windows media (what ever that means)
Throw mp3 or wma files on a CD and play it...

> cd text xm ready (what ever that means)
If CDs are written with Artist/Album/Song name text on them, it should show
up on your display. Nero allows you to add CD text to your own compiles...


Cheers, Jason - remove macrovision to reply : )

USB Phone chargers:
http://gadgets.shorturl.com

[st3ph3nm]

"Rick" <deNOBULLlorean@dodo.com.au> wrote in message news:<40116536@news.comindico.com.au>...
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Sounds to me like you've already pretty much worked it out.

If I was doing a sound system in my car right now, I'd choose the
following items:

An entry-level head unit from Pioneer or Clarion - not fussed which,
but they both do have good digital tuners, so you should get decent
radio reception out of them. It's going to cost too much more to get
extra RCA outs, and there's not many features that you'd need pay more
for inbetween, IMHO.

A pair of 6" splits from Infinity (which any Autobarn can get, and
probably a number of other places as well). They're lovely speakers.
rrp ~$349 and worth every cent.

A Pioneer 10" subwoofer - and I'd probably build the box myself using
a program like WINISD or similar. Sony Xplod and Clarion might be
worth a listen, too.

and as many watts rms as I could afford in a 4 channel amp to run the
lot.

I haven't heard a car that produces better sound quality than this
sort of combo. Should fit into a $1000 budget without problems,
including installation.

Cheers,
Steve
(I am an Autobarn employee, so take my words with as much salt as you
like)

[Codswallop]

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:45:02 GMT, st3ph3nm wrote in aus.dvd:

> A Pioneer 10" subwoofer - and I'd probably build the box myself using
> a program like WINISD or similar. Sony Xplod and Clarion might be
> worth a listen, too.

Hey thanks... A "new" speaker designer, looks good. I've been using
"JBL Speaker Pro", which was released for Windows 3.11. ;)

Also, take a look at Boston and Diamond brand splits, IMO they're nicer
than Infinity though more expensive. A friend of mine friend the
tweeters quite easily on an Infinity set.

Also, for amps, Audison is a good Australian (I believe) company, who
produce decent amps at a good price. Better than Sony, Clarion, et al
IMO.

Can't go past Boston Pro for invincible subs though (one 10" is half
your budget ;), I've seen photos of a new VW sitting on four of them
(one under each wheel), cones facing up.

--
- Cods
pbqf_at@ubgznvy.pbz (un ROT-13 to email)

Welcome to KILLFILE, population: You.

[Kwyjibo.]

Codswallop <chunkylover53@aol.com> said


> Can't go past Boston Pro for invincible subs though (one 10" is half
> your budget ;), I've seen photos of a new VW sitting on four of them
> (one under each wheel), cones facing up.

Wouldn't they sound better if they were mounted *inside* the vehicle?



--

Kwyj.

(Remove your panties to reply by email)

[Leon Gross]

"Codswallop" <chunkylover53@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns947D85578B388codswallopcom@139.132.1.4...
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 01:45:02 GMT, st3ph3nm wrote in aus.dvd:

>
> Also, for amps, Audison is a good Australian (I believe) company, who
> produce decent amps at a good price. Better than Sony, Clarion, et al
> IMO.

Audison are an Italian company I think.

Leon Gross

[Scott Badman]

"Codswallop" <chunkylover53@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Xns947D85578B388codswallopcom@139.132.1.4...
> Also, for amps, Audison is a good Australian (I believe) company,

Italian actually.....


Scott

[Toby Ponsenby]

> Italian actually.....
>
>
> Scott

How can you tell, does your amp, leak PCB, onto the floor and lose power on
corners?

--
Toby
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur
Warning: All posts to be treated with a grain of salt.
By Order
K.K.

[roughplanet]

"Toby Ponsenby" <Toby@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:1m34edvkvrn8.1s1icxu1ve37m$.dlg@40tude.net...

> > Italian actually.....

> How can you tell, does your amp, leak PCB, onto the floor and lose
> power on corners?

OT I know, but just like my last Alfa.......the Giulietta. What a lemon that
was. Not only did it rust like hell, leak oil (into the cooling system
mainly), but it had a vibration at a frequency which cracked metal (true).
I lost numerous metal parts from the engine, and then 3 exhaust systems in
fairly close succession, one of which hit the road & bounced over the car
behind me before hurtling off into scrub.
I was doing 180 KPH at the time (crossing the Hay Plains from Sydney to
Adelaide, a mind-numbing drive if ever there was one) so the guy behind me &
I stopped and had a beer together at the next pub we came to, as he was
damn lucky to be alive.
Never bought another Alfa; that was my third & last. I hear they are much
better now :-).

ruff

[Toby Ponsenby]

> Never bought another Alfa; that was my third & last. I hear they are much
> better now :-).

Same folk started that story as the ones that tried to convince us that
drivers have stopped picking their noses at TLs.
--
Toby
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur
Warning: All posts to be treated with a grain of salt.
By Order
K.K.

[Public Image Ltd]

sgam@hotmail.com (st3ph3nm) wrote in message news:<221fa157.0401261745.286260fe@posting.google.com>...

A bit late on this one, but what Steve said. Splits are essential in
order to get unimpeded treble and, consequently, directional
information. Note that 6" woofers won't fit into a lot of car doors
without some degree of aggravation. Don't go overboard on a head unit,
because you just wind up paying for features, not quality. MP3
capability is well worth it in order to have extended play CDs, and
lose all that stacker system nonsense. RCA outs are required to drive
an amp properly, but these have become a standard feature nowadays. It
is hard to go past Jaycar for value car amps, or otherwise risk it
second-hand.

Subs are theoretically not all that much use, as their drivers often
don't go much lower than those in a quality set of splits. In
practice, however, the box can make a lot of difference. Woofers
mounted into doors inevitably leak all over the place, and this
degrades bass definition and power. But the downside is finding room
for that damn box.

[Rick]

"Public Image Ltd" <muckanic@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:de4c4b8.0401291947.915bfb4@posting.google.com ...
> sgam@hotmail.com (st3ph3nm) wrote in message
news:<221fa157.0401261745.286260fe@posting.google.com>...
>
> A bit late on this one, but what Steve said. Splits are essential in
> order to get unimpeded treble and, consequently, directional
> information. Note that 6" woofers won't fit into a lot of car doors
> without some degree of aggravation. Don't go overboard on a head unit,
> because you just wind up paying for features, not quality. MP3
> capability is well worth it in order to have extended play CDs, and
> lose all that stacker system nonsense. RCA outs are required to drive
> an amp properly, but these have become a standard feature nowadays. It
> is hard to go past Jaycar for value car amps, or otherwise risk it
> second-hand.
>
> Subs are theoretically not all that much use, as their drivers often
> don't go much lower than those in a quality set of splits. In
> practice, however, the box can make a lot of difference. Woofers
> mounted into doors inevitably leak all over the place, and this
> degrades bass definition and power. But the downside is finding room
> for that damn box.

Thank you to everyone for your valuable help on this issue. Much of what
P.I. just said above here is what I decided on myself with the necessary
features as well as superfluous extras available. I will detail what I have
(almost) decided on so far, but essentially I am getting everything except
an amplifier at this stage and will run everything off the deck (including
the subwoofer believe it or not). I hadn't thought of going to Jaycar for
anything car-related, but I will check this out in due course, thanks for
the tip. As stated above, there's no need for a CD stacker when you can
have all your CDs on one MP3-CD-R(W). I can't believe that a sub doesn't go
much further than a split (or any kind of front) speaker, so I'm not sure
what you're getting at there. My sub and box will be free-standing in the
back end so as long as the box itself is a good enclosure, everything else
should match up quite well.

My first and primary concern was not to damage the existing trims of the
doors etc if at all possible, however this immediately limited my options to
just installing 4" speakers in the dashboard. This decision had further
made my life a living hell to work out what kind of 4"s would have sounded
even half good to which I discovered the wonderful world of "splits". I
almost ended up with a good solution of using some unique 4x6" split variety
speakers until I discovered "pods" - these are (expensive) speaker casings
which can be screwed onto the outside of wherever you put them (eg doors)
with minimal screw-holes that can be covered up or disguised later if taking
them out again. This then allows even 6.5" speakers to be installed on the
door although the obvious "fattening up" would occur but this is of little
worry to me. In any case, going in this direction negated the need for 4"s
so now the 6" versions are what I am going with now which sound much fuller
of course.

This re-decision caused another dilemma - should I get the proper splits or
go with these new coaxial treble and midrange in the one speaker varieties?
Either way, both of these options come with an external crossover as desired
for "superior sound" rather than the uglier sounding capacitors of the
regular cheaper 2/3-way speakers. Atm, I've decided on the 6" coaxial
versions as these are a bit cheaper than the splits, the brand I've decided
on are called Polk Momo (don't ask, they just came in today apparently) and
are almost $400 just for a pair of them (but man, do they sound sweet even
at high volume with no distortion!). A pair of beautiful sounding 6" splits
will cost under $300 and I'd prefer these any day to the inferior
reproductions of an all-in-one 2-way or 3-way speaker even at their most
expensive, so all you savvy shoppers out there should consider the splits as
they will only cost an extra $100 or so and are worth every penny.

And because I decided on 6" speakers rather than 4", this also opened up the
options on which subwoofer I would get, because a smaller sub would have
been preferable to close the gap left by the 4"s lack of decent midrange.
This meant an 8" subwoofer (don't laugh, I'm serious here) that, when put
into a decent tubed box enclosure, actually sound pretty damn awesome,
although of course these are not for your typical tub-thumping but they at
least provide a good all-round sound and can even be run off a decent enough
CD deck even without an amplifier. Nonetheless, I can now go for a 10" or
12" subwoofer to further my bass options whilst having the very pleasant 6"
coaxial (or split) speakers outside of the door trim. I am actually not
going to get an amplifier at this stage and, yes, I will be running
everything off the deck, but I have been assured that there will be no
damage of the componentry installed in this way and it will all be suitable
to run off an amplifier later on if and when I find the money for a decent
one.

Thanks again for everyone's input. As I usually say, I take all advice,
good and bad, and then sort out what I need for later on - even the bad
advice can become good as any comments that are made may take you in
directions you never thought of before. Hope this has been as educational
for you as it was for me.

[Scott Badman]

"Public Image Ltd" <muckanic@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:de4c4b8.0401291947.915bfb4@posting.google.com ...
> sgam@hotmail.com (st3ph3nm) wrote in message
news:<221fa157.0401261745.286260fe@posting.google.com>...
>
> Subs are theoretically not all that much use, as their drivers often
> don't go much lower than those in a quality set of splits. In
> practice, however, the box can make a lot of difference. Woofers
> mounted into doors inevitably leak all over the place, and this
> degrades bass definition and power. But the downside is finding room
> for that damn box.

If your subs don't go lower than the other speakers, then something is very
wrong, or very poorly constructed. I cross my sub over at 50hz, and it keeps
going down to 30hz and lower. Really fills in the lower spectrum when
listening to full bodied music! (None of that techno crap, talking real
stuff here)....

[Public Image Ltd]

"Rick" <deNOBULLlorean@dodo.com.au> wrote in message news:<401bbc68@news.comindico.com.au>...

> I will detail what I have
> (almost) decided on so far, but essentially I am getting everything except
> an amplifier at this stage and will run everything off the deck (including
> the subwoofer believe it or not).

Watch out there. Most head units won't support bridging, which means
you could wind up having to run your sub off either the left or right
rear channel, but not both. Also, I can't see the value of coaxial
"splits". You want the tweeters up at ear level, or at least on the
dash.

> I can't believe that a sub doesn't go
> much further than a split (or any kind of front) speaker, so I'm not sure
> what you're getting at there.

Take a look at some of the specs. Good split woofer drivers will do 40
Hz (appropriately mounted, of course). Very few "sub" drivers do 30
Hz.