MTBF is Wrong !!

[J.M.]

I have read many post to this MTBF issue ( Mean Time Between Failure
).
Whatever it is called it is BULLSHIT.

As a consumer I just want to know " How long is the average life of
the dam product ". Not some BATHTUB scale BULLSHIT. I wont own a
million of the product so cut the crap figures out.

How about the HLRL figure - ( HOW LONG it REALLY LASTS )

If enough people bitched, the manufacturers would stop using this shit
scale of measurement as a rating guide for consumers.

-- STOP THE BULLSHIT --

[pk]

mcardle@walnutcreekfl.net (J.M.) wrote:

>I have read many post to this MTBF issue ( Mean Time Between Failure

>As a consumer I just want to know " How long is the average life of
>the dam product ". Not some BATHTUB scale BULLSHIT. I wont own a
>million of the product so cut the crap figures out.


Ok MTBF is a measure of reliability, whereas "service life" is the
measure you're looking for.

MTBF is the time interval in which the product requires service (which
may be quite routine), whereas service life is normally defined as the
point at which it is uneconomic to continue maintainence of the
product.

[Miro]

"J.M." <mcardle@walnutcreekfl.net> wrote in message
news:c201d79c.0401251344.27934104@posting.google.c om...
> I have read many post to this MTBF issue ( Mean Time Between Failure
> ).
> Whatever it is called it is BULLSHIT.
>
> As a consumer I just want to know " How long is the average life of
> the dam product ". Not some BATHTUB scale BULLSHIT. I wont own a
> million of the product so cut the crap figures out.
>
> How about the HLRL figure - ( HOW LONG it REALLY LASTS )
>
> If enough people bitched, the manufacturers would stop using this shit
> scale of measurement as a rating guide for consumers.
>

It's perfectly obvious that the plasma technology goes muddy long before it
stops working.

[thomo]

How REAL is bullshit (your words). Take ARSE (AnotherRodSpeedExcretia) for
example.

"J.M." <mcardle@walnutcreekfl.net> wrote in message
news:c201d79c.0401251344.27934104@posting.google.c om...
> I have read many post to this MTBF issue ( Mean Time Between Failure
> ).
> Whatever it is called it is BULLSHIT.
>
> As a consumer I just want to know " How long is the average life of
> the dam product ". Not some BATHTUB scale BULLSHIT. I wont own a
> million of the product so cut the crap figures out.
>
> How about the HLRL figure - ( HOW LONG it REALLY LASTS )
>
> If enough people bitched, the manufacturers would stop using this shit
> scale of measurement as a rating guide for consumers.
>
> -- STOP THE BULLSHIT --

[Trevor S]

mcardle@walnutcreekfl.net (J.M.) wrote in
news:c201d79c.0401251344.27934104@posting.google.c om:

> I have read many post to this MTBF issue ( Mean Time Between Failure
> ).
> Whatever it is called it is BULLSHIT.

Well, it's MTBF not bullshit, knowing what the number is, why are you
concered when it is quoted. It's, well, the mean time between _failure_.

> As a consumer I just want to know " How long is the average life of
> the dam product ". Not some BATHTUB scale BULLSHIT. I wont own a
> million of the product so cut the crap figures out.

So you want to know how long YOUR particular piece of gear is going to
last, you're not being serious now are you ? :)

First off you asked for the average (you know the term for this is MEAN
don't you, then you asked before it craps itself, anoother term for this
is "failure" I will let you work the rest out.

> How about the HLRL figure - ( HOW LONG it REALLY LASTS )

> If enough people bitched, the manufacturers would stop using this shit
> scale of measurement as a rating guide for consumers.

Okay, so you're a fruitloop :)... shrug, I have no cure for that :)

If you don't like it, don't buy it !

Your implication seems to be that you're not happy knowing the average
time for a failure of a bit of gear, you want to know the average time
for failure of a bit of gear and you want to know it KNOW, is that a fair
summary of what you are asking ?


--
Trevor S


"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

[John]

" Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40144b43$0$29130$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
> "J.M." <mcardle@walnutcreekfl.net> wrote in message
> news:c201d79c.0401251344.27934104@posting.google.c om...
> > I have read many post to this MTBF issue ( Mean Time Between Failure
> > ).
> > Whatever it is called it is BULLSHIT.
> >
> > As a consumer I just want to know " How long is the average life of
> > the dam product ". Not some BATHTUB scale BULLSHIT. I wont own a
> > million of the product so cut the crap figures out.
> >
> > How about the HLRL figure - ( HOW LONG it REALLY LASTS )
> >
> > If enough people bitched, the manufacturers would stop using this shit
> > scale of measurement as a rating guide for consumers.
> >
>
> It's perfectly obvious that the plasma technology goes muddy long before
it
> stops working.

The same can be said for nearly everything Miro. (single) CRT's, LCD's and
DLP's are no different.

John

[Miro]

"John" <nospam@afp.gov.au> wrote in message
news:40146619$1@mail.netspeed.com.au...
> " Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:40144b43$0$29130$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> >
> > "J.M." <mcardle@walnutcreekfl.net> wrote in message
> > news:c201d79c.0401251344.27934104@posting.google.c om...
> > > I have read many post to this MTBF issue ( Mean Time Between Failure
> > > ).
> > > Whatever it is called it is BULLSHIT.
> > >
> > > As a consumer I just want to know " How long is the average life of
> > > the dam product ". Not some BATHTUB scale BULLSHIT. I wont own a
> > > million of the product so cut the crap figures out.
> > >
> > > How about the HLRL figure - ( HOW LONG it REALLY LASTS )
> > >
> > > If enough people bitched, the manufacturers would stop using this shit
> > > scale of measurement as a rating guide for consumers.
> > >
> >
> > It's perfectly obvious that the plasma technology goes muddy long before
> it
> > stops working.
>
> The same can be said for nearly everything Miro. (single) CRT's, LCD's
and
> DLP's are no different.
>
> John

Let me rephrase that ...... long before you get value for money.

How long would 4 pojectors last, bought to the same value as a Plasma, used
one after the other.

I myself have no problems with buying a cheap projector, running it till it
drops and then buying a new one. Its cheap, the picture is huge and the
performance is more than adequate. I am still ahead of it in dolllars, by a
long way.

[Paul Walker]

"J.M." <mcardle@walnutcreekfl.net> wrote in message
news:c201d79c.0401251344.27934104@posting.google.c om...
> I have read many post to this MTBF issue ( Mean Time Between Failure
> ).
> Whatever it is called it is BULLSHIT.
>
> As a consumer I just want to know " How long is the average life of
> the dam product ". Not some BATHTUB scale BULLSHIT. I wont own a
> million of the product so cut the crap figures out.
>
> How about the HLRL figure - ( HOW LONG it REALLY LASTS )

I'd like to see them specify what the standard deviation was in addition to
the mean. This would be much more meaningful.

Paul

[Miro]

"Paul Walker" <c_o_m_p_h_e_l_p@i-i-n-e-t.net.au> wrote in message
news:401480f7$0$1747$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.a u...
>
> "J.M." <mcardle@walnutcreekfl.net> wrote in message
> news:c201d79c.0401251344.27934104@posting.google.c om...
> > I have read many post to this MTBF issue ( Mean Time Between Failure
> > ).
> > Whatever it is called it is BULLSHIT.
> >
> > As a consumer I just want to know " How long is the average life of
> > the dam product ". Not some BATHTUB scale BULLSHIT. I wont own a
> > million of the product so cut the crap figures out.
> >
> > How about the HLRL figure - ( HOW LONG it REALLY LASTS )
>
> I'd like to see them specify what the standard deviation was in addition
to
> the mean. This would be much more meaningful.
>
> Paul

Considering how many "tubes" are on a plasma, you can get a good idea by
owning one.

[John]

" Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:401466bf$0$29132$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
> "John" <nospam@afp.gov.au> wrote in message
> news:40146619$1@mail.netspeed.com.au...
> > " Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:40144b43$0$29130$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> > >
> > > "J.M." <mcardle@walnutcreekfl.net> wrote in message
> > > news:c201d79c.0401251344.27934104@posting.google.c om...
> > > > I have read many post to this MTBF issue ( Mean Time Between Failure
> > > > ).
> > > > Whatever it is called it is BULLSHIT.
> > > >
> > > > As a consumer I just want to know " How long is the average life of
> > > > the dam product ". Not some BATHTUB scale BULLSHIT. I wont own a
> > > > million of the product so cut the crap figures out.
> > > >
> > > > How about the HLRL figure - ( HOW LONG it REALLY LASTS )
> > > >
> > > > If enough people bitched, the manufacturers would stop using this
shit
> > > > scale of measurement as a rating guide for consumers.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It's perfectly obvious that the plasma technology goes muddy long
before
> > it
> > > stops working.
> >
> > The same can be said for nearly everything Miro. (single) CRT's, LCD's
> and
> > DLP's are no different.
> >
> > John
>
> Let me rephrase that ...... long before you get value for money.
>
> How long would 4 pojectors last, bought to the same value as a Plasma,
used
> one after the other.
>
> I myself have no problems with buying a cheap projector, running it till
it
> drops and then buying a new one. Its cheap, the picture is huge and the
> performance is more than adequate. I am still ahead of it in dolllars, by
a
> long way.

Miro, you're changing what you said. You were talking about a specific
failing of the Plasma technology, which I was pointing out was common across
all technologies.

Now you're talking about perceived values, which is completely different.
Using your example, I could say that someone shouldn't buy a Porsche as they
could buy 4 Commodores for the same money...

Regards
John

[Miro]

"John" <nospam@afp.gov.au> wrote in message
news:40149e2f$1@mail.netspeed.com.au...
> " Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:401466bf$0$29132$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> >
> > "John" <nospam@afp.gov.au> wrote in message
> > news:40146619$1@mail.netspeed.com.au...
> > > " Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:40144b43$0$29130$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> > > >
> > > > "J.M." <mcardle@walnutcreekfl.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:c201d79c.0401251344.27934104@posting.google.c om...
> > > > > I have read many post to this MTBF issue ( Mean Time Between
Failure
> > > > > ).
> > > > > Whatever it is called it is BULLSHIT.
> > > > >
> > > > > As a consumer I just want to know " How long is the average life
of
> > > > > the dam product ". Not some BATHTUB scale BULLSHIT. I wont own a
> > > > > million of the product so cut the crap figures out.
> > > > >
> > > > > How about the HLRL figure - ( HOW LONG it REALLY LASTS )
> > > > >
> > > > > If enough people bitched, the manufacturers would stop using this
> shit
> > > > > scale of measurement as a rating guide for consumers.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > It's perfectly obvious that the plasma technology goes muddy long
> before
> > > it
> > > > stops working.
> > >
> > > The same can be said for nearly everything Miro. (single) CRT's,
LCD's
> > and
> > > DLP's are no different.
> > >
> > > John
> >
> > Let me rephrase that ...... long before you get value for money.
> >
> > How long would 4 pojectors last, bought to the same value as a Plasma,
> used
> > one after the other.
> >
> > I myself have no problems with buying a cheap projector, running it till
> it
> > drops and then buying a new one. Its cheap, the picture is huge and the
> > performance is more than adequate. I am still ahead of it in dolllars,
by
> a
> > long way.
>
> Miro, you're changing what you said. You were talking about a specific
> failing of the Plasma technology, which I was pointing out was common
across
> all technologies.
>
> Now you're talking about perceived values, which is completely different.
> Using your example, I could say that someone shouldn't buy a Porsche as
they
> could buy 4 Commodores for the same money...
>
> Regards
> John

Being a butt-pluig as you are, you cant see my basis of comparison as being
a relative one. Therefore you declare a "no-ball and a wide" at the same
time. As for Holden v's Porcshe, i think only you could imagine that, since
there is no such equivalent in AV gear.

[John]

" Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4014a342$0$18298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> Being a butt-pluig as you are, you cant see my basis of comparison as
being
> a relative one. Therefore you declare a "no-ball and a wide" at the same
> time. As for Holden v's Porcshe, i think only you could imagine that,
since
> there is no such equivalent in AV gear.

And here I was trying to have an adult conversation with you. I can see
that this is not possible when you resort to calling people "butt-pluig('s)"
[sic].

I don't know if you're normally like this, but you probably shouldn't
respond to people's questions if you're going to end up posting rubbish as a
response to argument.

John.

[Miro]

"John" <nospam@afp.gov.au> wrote in message
news:401521dc@mail.netspeed.com.au...
> " Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4014a342$0$18298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> > Being a butt-pluig as you are, you cant see my basis of comparison as
> being
> > a relative one. Therefore you declare a "no-ball and a wide" at the same
> > time. As for Holden v's Porcshe, i think only you could imagine that,
> since
> > there is no such equivalent in AV gear.
>
> And here I was trying to have an adult conversation with you. I can see
> that this is not possible when you resort to calling people
"butt-pluig('s)"
> [sic].
>
> I don't know if you're normally like this, but you probably shouldn't
> respond to people's questions if you're going to end up posting rubbish as
a
> response to argument.
>
> John.

I just dont have a WOW view of technology as you do. Cost is a realistic
factor in the value of the product.

[JohnP]

" Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:401529c3$0$29132$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
> "John" <nospam@afp.gov.au> wrote in message
> news:401521dc@mail.netspeed.com.au...
> > " Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:4014a342$0$18298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> > > Being a butt-pluig as you are, you cant see my basis of comparison as
> > being
> > > a relative one. Therefore you declare a "no-ball and a wide" at the
same
> > > time. As for Holden v's Porcshe, i think only you could imagine that,
> > since
> > > there is no such equivalent in AV gear.
> >
> > And here I was trying to have an adult conversation with you. I can see
> > that this is not possible when you resort to calling people
> "butt-pluig('s)"
> > [sic].
> >
> > I don't know if you're normally like this, but you probably shouldn't
> > respond to people's questions if you're going to end up posting rubbish
as
> a
> > response to argument.
> >
> > John.
>
> I just dont have a WOW view of technology as you do. Cost is a realistic
> factor in the value of the product.
>
Yep bean bags and tinny DS amplifiers is all Miro the Ignoramus needs in
life. Good on ya mate but there are those of us who actually can perceive
the difference between crap and decent quality, your inadequacies demand
that you demean any and everyone who thinks otherwise but at the end of the
day that is your psychological problem..............learn to deal with it

[Newsy]

" Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:401529c3$0$29132$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
> "John" <nospam@afp.gov.au> wrote in message
> news:401521dc@mail.netspeed.com.au...
> > " Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:4014a342$0$18298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> > > Being a butt-pluig as you are, you cant see my basis of comparison as
> > being
> > > a relative one. Therefore you declare a "no-ball and a wide" at the
same
> > > time. As for Holden v's Porcshe, i think only you could imagine that,
> > since
> > > there is no such equivalent in AV gear.
> >
> > And here I was trying to have an adult conversation with you. I can see
> > that this is not possible when you resort to calling people
> "butt-pluig('s)"
> > [sic].
> >
> > I don't know if you're normally like this, but you probably shouldn't
> > respond to people's questions if you're going to end up posting rubbish
as
> a
> > response to argument.
> >
> > John.
>
> I just dont have a WOW view of technology as you do. Cost is a realistic
> factor in the value of the product.

Disregarding what has gone before in this thread, I happen to agree with
Miro on this point. It is all about the appropriateness for a particular
job, and in many instances "whole of life" cost. It is also about the
client perception of value, not Miro's or mine. However, it is also about
our ability to provide the client with realistic (NOT Realistic) options.
Many an installation has been spoilt by the inappropriate selection of
hardware.

Rod
>
>

[Miro]

"Newsy" <rllg000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40161d5d$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
>
> " Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:401529c3$0$29132$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> >
> > "John" <nospam@afp.gov.au> wrote in message
> > news:401521dc@mail.netspeed.com.au...
> > > " Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:4014a342$0$18298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> > > > Being a butt-pluig as you are, you cant see my basis of comparison
as
> > > being
> > > > a relative one. Therefore you declare a "no-ball and a wide" at the
> same
> > > > time. As for Holden v's Porcshe, i think only you could imagine
that,
> > > since
> > > > there is no such equivalent in AV gear.
> > >
> > > And here I was trying to have an adult conversation with you. I can
see
> > > that this is not possible when you resort to calling people
> > "butt-pluig('s)"
> > > [sic].
> > >
> > > I don't know if you're normally like this, but you probably shouldn't
> > > respond to people's questions if you're going to end up posting
rubbish
> as
> > a
> > > response to argument.
> > >
> > > John.
> >
> > I just dont have a WOW view of technology as you do. Cost is a realistic
> > factor in the value of the product.
>
> Disregarding what has gone before in this thread, I happen to agree with
> Miro on this point. It is all about the appropriateness for a particular
> job, and in many instances "whole of life" cost. It is also about the
> client perception of value, not Miro's or mine. However, it is also about
> our ability to provide the client with realistic (NOT Realistic) options.
> Many an installation has been spoilt by the inappropriate selection of
> hardware.
>
> Rod

I will go on record saying that I am opposed to fluffing up the toys to make
that first impression. People have to live with the technology for an
extended period of time.

[JohnP]

"Newsy" <rllg000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40161d5d$1@duster.adelaide.on.net...
>
> " Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:401529c3$0$29132$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> >
> > "John" <nospam@afp.gov.au> wrote in message
> > news:401521dc@mail.netspeed.com.au...
> > > " Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:4014a342$0$18298$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> > > > Being a butt-pluig as you are, you cant see my basis of comparison
as
> > > being
> > > > a relative one. Therefore you declare a "no-ball and a wide" at the
> same
> > > > time. As for Holden v's Porcshe, i think only you could imagine
that,
> > > since
> > > > there is no such equivalent in AV gear.
> > >
> > > And here I was trying to have an adult conversation with you. I can
see
> > > that this is not possible when you resort to calling people
> > "butt-pluig('s)"
> > > [sic].
> > >
> > > I don't know if you're normally like this, but you probably shouldn't
> > > respond to people's questions if you're going to end up posting
rubbish
> as
> > a
> > > response to argument.
> > >
> > > John.
> >
> > I just dont have a WOW view of technology as you do. Cost is a realistic
> > factor in the value of the product.
>
> Disregarding what has gone before in this thread, I happen to agree with
> Miro on this point. It is all about the appropriateness for a particular
> job, and in many instances "whole of life" cost. It is also about the
> client perception of value, not Miro's or mine. However, it is also about
> our ability to provide the client with realistic (NOT Realistic) options.
> Many an installation has been spoilt by the inappropriate selection of
> hardware.
>
I agree too, but Miro is as at an extreme end of a scale and refuses to
believe any middle ground exists.

[JohnP]

" Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40148687$0$28866$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
> "Paul Walker" <c_o_m_p_h_e_l_p@i-i-n-e-t.net.au> wrote in message
> news:401480f7$0$1747$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.a u...
> >
> > "J.M." <mcardle@walnutcreekfl.net> wrote in message
> > news:c201d79c.0401251344.27934104@posting.google.c om...
> > > I have read many post to this MTBF issue ( Mean Time Between Failure
> > > ).
> > > Whatever it is called it is BULLSHIT.
> > >
> > > As a consumer I just want to know " How long is the average life of
> > > the dam product ". Not some BATHTUB scale BULLSHIT. I wont own a
> > > million of the product so cut the crap figures out.
> > >
> > > How about the HLRL figure - ( HOW LONG it REALLY LASTS )
> >
> > I'd like to see them specify what the standard deviation was in addition
> to
> > the mean. This would be much more meaningful.
> >
> > Paul
>
> Considering how many "tubes" are on a plasma, you can get a good idea by
> owning one.
>

What?