cabling schematic design

[tony]

What programmes do people recommend to design and print cable schematics for
integrated AV systems? I have heard of Microsoft Visio. Is this any good for
the task?

Thanks in advance.

[Miro]

"tony" <a@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:407a56a4$0$20662$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> What programmes do people recommend to design and print cable schematics
for
> integrated AV systems? I have heard of Microsoft Visio. Is this any good
for
> the task?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>

How about some pencil and paper ...... seems to work in the last 2000 years.

[miksterr]

Miro, that is why you get paid the BIG BUCKS..why didn't you think of that Tony?

[Miro]

"miksterr" <miksterr.14lmmc@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
news:miksterr.14lmmc@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au...
>
> Miro, that is why you get paid the BIG BUCKS..why didn't you think of
> that Tony?

I make more money drawing on knapkins than i ever did using a computer.

[JohnP]

" Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407a8b50$0$4574$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
>
> "miksterr" <miksterr.14lmmc@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:miksterr.14lmmc@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au...
> >
> > Miro, that is why you get paid the BIG BUCKS..why didn't you think of
> > that Tony?
>
> I make more money drawing on knapkins than i ever did using a computer.
>
>
Are you just as illiterate and incomprehensible on napkins as well?

[Miro]

"JohnP" <Nope> wrote in message news:hqCdnWfxOL19Aefd4p2dnA@giganews.com...
>
> " Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:407a8b50$0$4574$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
> >
> > "miksterr" <miksterr.14lmmc@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:miksterr.14lmmc@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au...
> > >
> > > Miro, that is why you get paid the BIG BUCKS..why didn't you think of
> > > that Tony?
> >
> > I make more money drawing on knapkins than i ever did using a computer.
> >
> >
> Are you just as illiterate and incomprehensible on napkins as well?

Business is done with a handshake, dont need a zoidberg to handle real
communications.

[Nigel]

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:36:13 +1000, tony wrote:

> What programmes do people recommend to design and print cable schematics for
> integrated AV systems? I have heard of Microsoft Visio. Is this any good for
> the task?
>
> Thanks in advance.
Well it's what Sony design engineers use for TV installations in the US,
not to mention every TV engineer I've come across, so yeah Visio will do
the trick :) ( Visio is not a Microsoft product, like most it was a 3rd
party one they have bought ).
The bigger issue is the methodology behind how you use the tool, cable
labling, what scale is it drawn at, how much
detail on each page.
Then the real fun job of keeping it up to date :), adding all Miro's
drawings in, I think he's right in that pen & paper is the by far the best
design tool, but Visio is a better storage & lookup tool IMHO.

Nigel

[Miro]

"Nigel" <sgidude_@_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.04.12.23.47.07.526065@_yahoo.com...
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:36:13 +1000, tony wrote:
>
> > What programmes do people recommend to design and print cable schematics
for
> > integrated AV systems? I have heard of Microsoft Visio. Is this any good
for
> > the task?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> Well it's what Sony design engineers use for TV installations in the US,
> not to mention every TV engineer I've come across, so yeah Visio will do
> the trick :) ( Visio is not a Microsoft product, like most it was a 3rd
> party one they have bought ).
> The bigger issue is the methodology behind how you use the tool, cable
> labling, what scale is it drawn at, how much
> detail on each page.
> Then the real fun job of keeping it up to date :), adding all Miro's
> drawings in, I think he's right in that pen & paper is the by far the best
> design tool, but Visio is a better storage & lookup tool IMHO.
>
> Nigel

I would agree with that. I also use 3D software with custom objects. Takes
about 20 minutes to model the entire room. Costs about $50 from Harvey
Norman. Gives total walk-through.

[Nigel]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:03:21 +1000, Miro wrote:
>> Well it's what Sony design engineers use for TV installations in the US,
>> not to mention every TV engineer I've come across, so yeah Visio will do
>> the trick :) ( Visio is not a Microsoft product, like most it was a 3rd
>> party one they have bought ).
>> The bigger issue is the methodology behind how you use the tool, cable
>> labling, what scale is it drawn at, how much
>> detail on each page.
>> Then the real fun job of keeping it up to date :), adding all Miro's
>> drawings in, I think he's right in that pen & paper is the by far the best
>> design tool, but Visio is a better storage & lookup tool IMHO.
>>
>> Nigel
>
> I would agree with that. I also use 3D software with custom objects. Takes
> about 20 minutes to model the entire room. Costs about $50 from Harvey
> Norman. Gives total walk-through.
Good idea, a full 3D package like Max would be overkill & too slow.

It's amazing how much you can learn from a 3D fly through that is not so
obvious from a planar drawing, plus I'm sure the clients like it :).

Nigel

[Miro]

"Nigel" <sgidude_@_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.04.13.01.13.48.485719@_yahoo.com...
> On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:03:21 +1000, Miro wrote:
> >> Well it's what Sony design engineers use for TV installations in the
US,
> >> not to mention every TV engineer I've come across, so yeah Visio will
do
> >> the trick :) ( Visio is not a Microsoft product, like most it was a 3rd
> >> party one they have bought ).
> >> The bigger issue is the methodology behind how you use the tool, cable
> >> labling, what scale is it drawn at, how much
> >> detail on each page.
> >> Then the real fun job of keeping it up to date :), adding all Miro's
> >> drawings in, I think he's right in that pen & paper is the by far the
best
> >> design tool, but Visio is a better storage & lookup tool IMHO.
> >>
> >> Nigel
> >
> > I would agree with that. I also use 3D software with custom objects.
Takes
> > about 20 minutes to model the entire room. Costs about $50 from Harvey
> > Norman. Gives total walk-through.
> Good idea, a full 3D package like Max would be overkill & too slow.
>
> It's amazing how much you can learn from a 3D fly through that is not so
> obvious from a planar drawing, plus I'm sure the clients like it :).
>
> Nigel

If you get the projector and the client in the right position, it actually
feels like a virtual tour.

[Nigel]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:57:48 +1000, Miro wrote:

> If you get the projector and the client in the right position, it actually
> feels like a virtual tour.
I believe it, as long as the movement is not too quick or there aren't any
real oddities in the virtual room, it would work sweet as & with the
digital photo's you can take now, I'd think it would be pretty cool.

Nigel

[tony]

"tony" <a@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:407a56a4$0$20662$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> What programmes do people recommend to design and print cable schematics
for
> integrated AV systems? I have heard of Microsoft Visio. Is this any good
for
> the task?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

It seems that "stardraw" is probably the best to use. Unfortunately it is
1800 pounds for a 12 month licence!

[Miro]

"tony" <a@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:407cd95f$0$439$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au. ..
>
> "tony" <a@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:407a56a4$0$20662$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> > What programmes do people recommend to design and print cable schematics
> for
> > integrated AV systems? I have heard of Microsoft Visio. Is this any good
> for
> > the task?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
>
> It seems that "stardraw" is probably the best to use. Unfortunately it is
> 1800 pounds for a 12 month licence!

Why show all this crap to clients ...... they dont even care how it is
connected. They just want to know what the results are.

[tony]

" Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407d10c9$0$4548$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
>
> "tony" <a@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:407cd95f$0$439$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au. ..
> >
> > "tony" <a@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:407a56a4$0$20662$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> > > What programmes do people recommend to design and print cable
schematics
> > for
> > > integrated AV systems? I have heard of Microsoft Visio. Is this any
good
> > for
> > > the task?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> >
> > It seems that "stardraw" is probably the best to use. Unfortunately it
is
> > 1800 pounds for a 12 month licence!
>
> Why show all this crap to clients ...... they dont even care how it is
> connected. They just want to know what the results are.
>

mate, if you think it is ok to just draw up on paper a large cable schematic
for installers to use you really are an idiot. Also if the client is an
international business and they are spending close to 1 million dollars
don't they deserve a decent record of what they bought?

[Miro]

"tony" <a@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:407da2ab$0$1990$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
>
> " Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:407d10c9$0$4548$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
> >
> > "tony" <a@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:407cd95f$0$439$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au. ..
> > >
> > > "tony" <a@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> > > news:407a56a4$0$20662$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> > > > What programmes do people recommend to design and print cable
> schematics
> > > for
> > > > integrated AV systems? I have heard of Microsoft Visio. Is this any
> good
> > > for
> > > > the task?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It seems that "stardraw" is probably the best to use. Unfortunately it
> is
> > > 1800 pounds for a 12 month licence!
> >
> > Why show all this crap to clients ...... they dont even care how it is
> > connected. They just want to know what the results are.
> >
>
> mate, if you think it is ok to just draw up on paper a large cable
schematic
> for installers to use you really are an idiot. Also if the client is an
> international business and they are spending close to 1 million dollars
> don't they deserve a decent record of what they bought?

Hell, for $1800 pounds a year .......... laughable.

Im sure it takes a lot less than that to do the job. Any decent architecture
software has a bill of materials.

Easy come, easy go. Make lots of money and then just throw it away.

[Nigel]

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:39:39 +1000, Miro wrote:

>>
>> mate, if you think it is ok to just draw up on paper a large cable
> schematic
>> for installers to use you really are an idiot. Also if the client is an
>> international business and they are spending close to 1 million dollars
>> don't they deserve a decent record of what they bought?
>
> Hell, for $1800 pounds a year .......... laughable.
>
> Im sure it takes a lot less than that to do the job. Any decent architecture
> software has a bill of materials.
Aye & a million budget is not big ( scarely big for someone who does not
know which s/ware to use mind you ).

They will care alot more about the time you took making sure of the
quality of the diagrams and the quality of the design you chose rather
than caring about the s/ware.

It might be worth it it if it saves you 2400 dollars of time, but on a
million dollar project that might not be that easy, I'd spend that money
on the design personally.

You also have to consider your subbies, if you use a 1800 quid package,
will they have it, if not any thing you send them will be file transfer
hell ( worse if they change it & send it back ).

>
> Easy come, easy go. Make lots of money and then just throw it away.
<grin>, never a wiser comment made.

Nigel

[Miro]

Sitting on a PC making drawings ...... anyone would know that its not going
to happen that way in real life. I dont suppose you have a menu option for
REALITY mode.

Give me a project manager (person) that knows what is going on and then do
the proper drawings at the end.

[nobby]

Give me a project manager (person) that knows what is going on and then do the proper drawings at the end.

hahaha - these are like black diamonds!

And besides, no drawings before and your in for a legal crap fight when the subbies do everything wrong, as they would with no drawings!

[Miro]

"nobby" <nobby.14ws0c@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
news:nobby.14ws0c@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au...
>
> Miro Wrote:
> > Give me a project manager (person) that knows what is going on and
> > then do the proper drawings at the end.
>
> hahaha - these are like black diamonds!
>
> And besides, no drawings before and your in for a legal crap fight when
> the subbies do everything wrong, as they would with no drawings!
>

If subbies could read drawing then they wouldnt be subbies, they would be
project managers.

[Reader]

" Miro" <miro01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407a8b50$0$4574$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au ...
>
> "miksterr" <miksterr.14lmmc@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:miksterr.14lmmc@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au...
> >
> > Miro, that is why you get paid the BIG BUCKS..why didn't you think of
> > that Tony?
>
> I make more money drawing on knapkins than i ever did using a computer.
>
>

With your technical skills, Miro, that is no surprise!