Re: In all seriousness about the abortion "debate"

[Sleepy]

<snip>

> I think this ignores certain aspects of the way humans function. A woman
> has a natural love for the child she has just born. It's a built-in
> mechanism that prevents her from throttling the noisy, messy, demanding
> brat within the first few days.
>
> So if you persuade a young woman that rather than have an abortion, she
> should carry the baby to term, and then have it adopted, then you're
> playing a cruel confidence trick on her. In many cases, what you're
> doing is forcing her into life as a parent that she'd already decided
> she didn't want. This results from the fact that after she's given
> birth, she'll find it very difficult to go through with the adoption
> process.

Any more psycologically painful then having to go through the abortion
process!!! If you are saying that she should have an abortion to to prevent
her having to make a difficult choice in 9 months time then we have a
serious value problem with abortion a decsion which should (and I presume in
most cases is never) taken lightly.

Consider these scenarios based on our argument:

1. She feels attached to the child and doesn't want to give it up, but
realises she can't support it and thus gives it up for adoption. Then she
has loving and nurturing feelings for a baby that she would have terminated!

2 She feels attached to the child doesn't want to give the child up and
decides to keep it. I doubt very much in this scenario she is going to have
twangs of regret about not having an abortion!

3. She never really wanted the child and she gives it up for adoption.

[Sylvia Else]

Sleepy wrote:

> <snip>
>
>>I think this ignores certain aspects of the way humans function. A woman
>>has a natural love for the child she has just born. It's a built-in
>>mechanism that prevents her from throttling the noisy, messy, demanding
>>brat within the first few days.
>>
>>So if you persuade a young woman that rather than have an abortion, she
>>should carry the baby to term, and then have it adopted, then you're
>>playing a cruel confidence trick on her. In many cases, what you're
>>doing is forcing her into life as a parent that she'd already decided
>>she didn't want. This results from the fact that after she's given
>>birth, she'll find it very difficult to go through with the adoption
>>process.
>
>
> Any more psycologically painful then having to go through the abortion
> process!!! If you are saying that she should have an abortion to to prevent
> her having to make a difficult choice in 9 months time then we have a
> serious value problem with abortion a decsion which should (and I presume in
> most cases is never) taken lightly.
>
> Consider these scenarios based on our argument:
>
> 1. She feels attached to the child and doesn't want to give it up, but
> realises she can't support it and thus gives it up for adoption. Then she
> has loving and nurturing feelings for a baby that she would have terminated!

However, if she'd had it terminated, then she would not be suffering now
the feelings of loss resulting from having to give up a baby she loves.
>
> 2 She feels attached to the child doesn't want to give the child up and
> decides to keep it. I doubt very much in this scenario she is going to have
> twangs of regret about not having an abortion!

She probably won't regret it, but that's not the same as saying that
she's no worse off than if she'd have the baby terminated.

>
> 3. She never really wanted the child and she gives it up for adoption.

That's possible, but of the three, the least probable in my view. Humans
have not evolved to be capable of indifference towards their offspring.
To the extent that it occurs, it's clearly maladaptive, and will tend to
be removed from the gene pool (all the more quickly if abortions go ahead).

The scenarios you offered are not representative of all possibilities,
because they presuppose that an abortion did not take place.

4. She has an abortion, and never thinks about it again.

5. She has an abortion and later regrets it.

Once a woman becomes unintentionally pregnant, there are no courses of
action that are guaranteed to provide a happy outcome. The woman should
at least be allowed to choose the course whose consequences she will
have to live with, rather than having that choice made for her.

Sylvia.

[Sylvia Else]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

> Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in
> news:4192e7b0$0$2679$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au :
>
>
>>
>>Sleepy wrote:
>>
>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>I think this ignores certain aspects of the way humans function. A
>>>>woman has a natural love for the child she has just born. It's a
>>>>built-in mechanism that prevents her from throttling the noisy,
>>>>messy, demanding brat within the first few days.
>>>>
>>>>So if you persuade a young woman that rather than have an abortion,
>>>>she should carry the baby to term, and then have it adopted, then
>>>>you're playing a cruel confidence trick on her. In many cases, what
>>>>you're doing is forcing her into life as a parent that she'd already
>>>>decided she didn't want. This results from the fact that after she's
>>>>given birth, she'll find it very difficult to go through with the
>>>>adoption process.
>>>
>>>
>>>Any more psycologically painful then having to go through the
>>>abortion process!!! If you are saying that she should have an
>>>abortion to to prevent her having to make a difficult choice in 9
>>>months time then we have a serious value problem with abortion a
>>>decsion which should (and I presume in most cases is never) taken
>>>lightly.
>>>
>>>Consider these scenarios based on our argument:
>>>
>>>1. She feels attached to the child and doesn't want to give it up,
>>>but realises she can't support it and thus gives it up for adoption.
>>>Then she has loving and nurturing feelings for a baby that she would
>>>have terminated!
>>
>>However, if she'd had it terminated, then she would not be suffering
>>now the feelings of loss resulting from having to give up a baby she
>>loves.
>>
>>>2 She feels attached to the child doesn't want to give the child up
>>>and decides to keep it. I doubt very much in this scenario she is
>>>going to have twangs of regret about not having an abortion!
>>
>>She probably won't regret it, but that's not the same as saying that
>>she's no worse off than if she'd have the baby terminated.
>>
>>
>>>3. She never really wanted the child and she gives it up for
>>>adoption.
>>
>>That's possible, but of the three, the least probable in my view.
>>Humans have not evolved to be capable of indifference towards their
>>offspring.
>
>
>
> So, did Dingoes eat your baby, fjukwit?

Trying to blind me with, er, nonsense?

>
> bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip]

Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in
news:4193fac7$0$24380$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u:

>
>
> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote in
>> news:4192e7b0$0$2679$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au :
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Sleepy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>>I think this ignores certain aspects of the way humans function. A
>>>>>woman has a natural love for the child she has just born. It's a
>>>>>built-in mechanism that prevents her from throttling the noisy,
>>>>>messy, demanding brat within the first few days.
>>>>>
>>>>>So if you persuade a young woman that rather than have an abortion,
>>>>>she should carry the baby to term, and then have it adopted, then
>>>>>you're playing a cruel confidence trick on her. In many cases, what
>>>>>you're doing is forcing her into life as a parent that she'd already
>>>>>decided she didn't want. This results from the fact that after she's
>>>>>given birth, she'll find it very difficult to go through with the
>>>>>adoption process.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Any more psycologically painful then having to go through the
>>>>abortion process!!! If you are saying that she should have an
>>>>abortion to to prevent her having to make a difficult choice in 9
>>>>months time then we have a serious value problem with abortion a
>>>>decsion which should (and I presume in most cases is never) taken
>>>>lightly.
>>>>
>>>>Consider these scenarios based on our argument:
>>>>
>>>>1. She feels attached to the child and doesn't want to give it up,
>>>>but realises she can't support it and thus gives it up for adoption.
>>>>Then she has loving and nurturing feelings for a baby that she would
>>>>have terminated!
>>>
>>>However, if she'd had it terminated, then she would not be suffering
>>>now the feelings of loss resulting from having to give up a baby she
>>>loves.
>>>
>>>>2 She feels attached to the child doesn't want to give the child up
>>>>and decides to keep it. I doubt very much in this scenario she is
>>>>going to have twangs of regret about not having an abortion!
>>>
>>>She probably won't regret it, but that's not the same as saying that
>>>she's no worse off than if she'd have the baby terminated.
>>>
>>>
>>>>3. She never really wanted the child and she gives it up for
>>>>adoption.
>>>
>>>That's possible, but of the three, the least probable in my view.
>>>Humans have not evolved to be capable of indifference towards their
>>>offspring.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, did Dingoes eat your baby, fjukwit?
>
> Trying to blind me with, er, nonsense?
>

Blind you? Why would i need to blind a pathetic wannabe like you, you
stupid cunt?

Bertie