CDMA carrier-locking?

[Paul remove-the-nospam Day]

Telstra have a little line in their fine print for CDMA pre-paid (no
Rod, I'm not a drug-dealer) that says the phone is not guaranteed to
work on other networks.

"This handset is programmed to operate only on Telstra's CDMA Network.
Telstra does not guarantee that this handset can be reprogrammed to
operate on any other network."

Is this the equivalent to locking a GSM phone's SIM to only a particular
carrier's or is this more a case of "If you take this phone to someone
else's network and it doesn't happen to work, don't come crying to us"?

PD

--
Paul Day Web: www.bur.st/~paul GPG Key ID: 7FF655A8

[thegoons]

You have never been able to use a phone sold for connection to Telstra onto
the Orange network or vice-versa. Same goes for bringing same-model CDMA
handsets into Australia from overseas.

There is something about it on the Telstra website, or search the google
archive

"Paul remove-the-nospam Day" <paul (AT) nospam (DOT) bur.st> wrote in message
news:1100609610.534966 (AT) sweep (DOT) ..
> Telstra have a little line in their fine print for CDMA pre-paid (no
> Rod, I'm not a drug-dealer) that says the phone is not guaranteed to
> work on other networks.
>
> "This handset is programmed to operate only on Telstra's CDMA Network.
> Telstra does not guarantee that this handset can be reprogrammed to
> operate on any other network."
>
> Is this the equivalent to locking a GSM phone's SIM to only a particular
> carrier's or is this more a case of "If you take this phone to someone
> else's network and it doesn't happen to work, don't come crying to us"?
>
> PD
>
> --
> Paul Day Web: www.bur.st/~paul GPG Key ID: 7FF655A8

[Charlie Wong]

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:17:34 +1100, "thegoons" <thegoons (AT) bigpond (DOT) com>
wrote:

>You have never been able to use a phone sold for connection to Telstra onto
>the Orange network or vice-versa. Same goes for bringing same-model CDMA
>handsets into Australia from overseas.
>
>There is something about it on the Telstra website, or search the google
>archive

It can be done but is very painful.

[Rod Speed]

Paul remove-the-nospam Day <paul (AT) nospam (DOT) bur.st>
wrote in message news:1100609610.534966 (AT) sweep (DOT) ..

> Telstra have a little line in their fine print for
> CDMA pre-paid (no Rod, I'm not a drug-dealer)

Corse a drug dealer would say that...

> that says the phone is not guaranteed to work on other networks.

> "This handset is programmed to operate only on Telstra's
> CDMA Network. Telstra does not guarantee that this handset
> can be reprogrammed to operate on any other network."

> Is this the equivalent to locking a GSM
> phone's SIM to only a particular carrier's

Nope, the crucial difference is that 'does not guarantee'

> or is this more a case of "If you take this phone to someone else's
> network and it doesn't happen to work, don't come crying to us"?

Yep, thats what they mean.

[Giles]

>>You have never been able to use a phone sold for connection to Telstra
>>onto
>>the Orange network or vice-versa. Same goes for bringing same-model CDMA
>>handsets into Australia from overseas.
>
> It can be done but is very painful.

When the Telstra rep told you to shove it up your arse, you know he was
kidding, right Charlie? :P

[Ian Pilkington]

This is Telstra covering there arse.

Having worked in the telco industry and come out the other side, this has
been my take on it.

Aparrently when re-programming a cdma phone a "ming" code is needing, again
from what I understand the codes used to reprogram the phone to say "you
connect to this network, your number is this"

Basically I'm guessing for whatever reason these codes aren't shared or
known so it would make reprogramming painful.

[Michael]

"Ian Pilkington" <ianp/spam,go,away (AT) ianp (DOT) blahdot.net> wrote in message
news:419afab5$1 (AT) duster (DOT) adelaide.on.net...
> This is Telstra covering there arse.
>
> Having worked in the telco industry and come out the other side, this has
> been my take on it.

Your comments below indicate you have NO idea about comms or CDMA in general

> Aparrently when re-programming a cdma phone a "ming" code is needing,
again
> from what I understand the codes used to reprogram the phone to say "you
> connect to this network, your number is this"
>
> Basically I'm guessing for whatever reason these codes aren't shared or
> known so it would make reprogramming painful.

You have no idea about MIN, A-Keys, SPC, or OTA programming.

[ctr]

"Ian Pilkington" <ianp/spam,go,away (AT) ianp (DOT) blahdot.net> wrote in message news:<419afab5$1 (AT) duster (DOT) adelaide.on.net>...
> This is Telstra covering there arse.
>
> Having worked in the telco industry and come out the other side, this has
> been my take on it.
You were a cleaner weren't you?

>
> Aparrently when re-programming a cdma phone a "ming" code
ROFL!!!!!!!! got to watch out for those "ming" codes, they can be dangerous

[Paul remove-the-nospam Day]

Paul remove-the-nospam Day <paul (AT) nospam (DOT) bur.st> wrote:
> Telstra have a little line in their fine print for CDMA pre-paid (no
> Rod, I'm not a drug-dealer) that says the phone is not guaranteed to
> work on other networks.

Well, after a few emails back and forth between Telstra (and explaining
to them the difference between CDMA and GSM ;) I got an answer from a
"network unlocking cell consultant" who says "the CDMA PrePaid Plus
Phone Pack are not network locked".

And on the flip-side, Verizon in the US have said "yeah, sure - that's a
tri-band CDMA phone and _should_ work fine. Bring it into a shop and
we'll hook it up".

So in other words it seems the line is there because Telstra don't want
to be blamed if it _doesn't_ work on someone else's CDMA network or it
needs reprogramming to work.

PD

--
Paul Day Web: www.bur.st/~paul GPG Key ID: 7FF655A8

[ctr]

Paul remove-the-nospam Day <paul (AT) nospam (DOT) bur.st> wrote in message news:<1100743540.941944@sweep>...
> Paul remove-the-nospam Day <paul (AT) nospam (DOT) bur.st> wrote:
> > Telstra have a little line in their fine print for CDMA pre-paid (no
> > Rod, I'm not a drug-dealer) that says the phone is not guaranteed to
> > work on other networks.
>
> Well, after a few emails back and forth between Telstra (and explaining
> to them the difference between CDMA and GSM ;) I got an answer from a
> "network unlocking cell consultant" who says "the CDMA PrePaid Plus
> Phone Pack are not network locked".
>
> And on the flip-side, Verizon in the US have said "yeah, sure - that's a
> tri-band CDMA phone and _should_ work fine. Bring it into a shop and
> we'll hook it up".
>

The verizon people don't know what they are talking about. They will
need the Service Programming Code to configure the phone, which they
will not have. They may be able to re-flash the firmaware, but I doubt
it.

> So in other words it seems the line is there because Telstra don't want
> to be blamed if it _doesn't_ work on someone else's CDMA network or it
> needs reprogramming to work.
>
> PD

That is partialy true. The other reason is that it is a real pain to
re-configure a CDMA handset for another network.

[Paul remove-the-nospam Day]

ctr <ctr001 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> The verizon people don't know what they are talking about. They will
> need the Service Programming Code to configure the phone, which they
> will not have. They may be able to re-flash the firmaware, but I doubt
> it.

Well, it seems that's might be what they do. I gave them one model and
they said "no, can't do that one", even though it's technically capable
of working with their network. Then I tried the other old CDMA phone I
had - one that they used to carry - and they said "yep, sure thing - but
you need to take it into one of our stores to get it connected".

It seems perhaps flashing their common phones to make them work isn't
that big a deal? If you want to take your Verizon CDMA phone to roam in
South Korea you need to take your handset in and "uploaded" according to
their web-page.

Anyway, I'm not convinced either, but there's only one way to find out.

PD

--
Paul Day Web: www.bur.st/~paul GPG Key ID: 7FF655A8

[ctr]

Paul remove-the-nospam Day <paul (AT) nospam (DOT) bur.st> wrote in message news:<1100828821.11141@sweep>...
> ctr <ctr001 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> > The verizon people don't know what they are talking about. They will
> > need the Service Programming Code to configure the phone, which they
> > will not have. They may be able to re-flash the firmaware, but I doubt
> > it.
>
> Well, it seems that's might be what they do. I gave them one model and
> they said "no, can't do that one", even though it's technically capable
> of working with their network. Then I tried the other old CDMA phone I
> had - one that they used to carry - and they said "yep, sure thing - but
> you need to take it into one of our stores to get it connected".
>
> It seems perhaps flashing their common phones to make them work isn't
> that big a deal? If you want to take your Verizon CDMA phone to roam in
> South Korea you need to take your handset in and "uploaded" according to
> their web-page.
>
> Anyway, I'm not convinced either, but there's only one way to find out.
>
> PD

One other thing to watch out for - if they flash your phone it may no
longer work in Oz. Also, there are very few phones that can be flashed
without the SPC.

You may be able to make individual calls by supplying a credit card
number to an operator. When I was their last (San diego) I didn't go
as far as giving my CC number, but when I attempted to make a call
with a australian CDMA phone I got a recorded messages along the lines
of "press x and enter credit card number to nmake a call...".

[Paul remove-the-nospam Day]

ctr <ctr001 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> The verizon people don't know what they are talking about. They will
> need the Service Programming Code to configure the phone, which they
> will not have. They may be able to re-flash the firmaware, but I doubt
> it.

Well, looks like you're right so far. :> Despite Telstra saying "our
CDMA phones aren't locked at all", it's definitely asking me for the SPC
code when I go to configure (the currently unused) NAM2. :>

Emailed Verizon's techs again asking exactly what they do. eg, flash the
phone or use software to determine the SPC...

PD

--
Paul Day Web: www.bur.st/~paul GPG Key ID: 7FF655A8

[ctr]

Paul remove-the-nospam Day <paul (AT) nospam (DOT) bur.st> wrote in message news:<1101211813.852830@sweep>...
> ctr <ctr001 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> > The verizon people don't know what they are talking about. They will
> > need the Service Programming Code to configure the phone, which they
> > will not have. They may be able to re-flash the firmaware, but I doubt
> > it.
>
> Well, looks like you're right so far. :> Despite Telstra saying "our
> CDMA phones aren't locked at all", it's definitely asking me for the SPC
> code when I go to configure (the currently unused) NAM2. :>
>
> Emailed Verizon's techs again asking exactly what they do. eg, flash the
> phone or use software to determine the SPC...
>
> PD

The SPC gives access to a whole raft of things ( most of the radio and
service configuration paramaters, your MIN, network ID's, frequencies
etc. etc.) and is basic security measure. It stops people from
stuffing up their phones and also goes some way to prevent fraud by
protecting the phones service details from casual inspection (like
your MIN)

Anyway, the term "locking" does not really apply to CDMA networks. The
concept of being able to switch carriers/services at a whim just does
not apply because there is no simple way of swapping you service
information between phones.

[Paul remove-the-nospam Day]

ctr <ctr001 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
<snip>
> The SPC gives access to a whole raft of things ( most of the radio and
> service configuration paramaters, your MIN, network ID's, frequencies
> etc. etc.) and is basic security measure. It stops people from
> stuffing up their phones and also goes some way to prevent fraud by
> protecting the phones service details from casual inspection (like
> your MIN)

Gotchya. I'd noticed you can set almost anything/everything in the
service menu. You can change the Alpha Tag from "Telstra CDMA" to
what-ever you want and activate/de-active either of the NAMs without the
SPC though.

> Anyway, the term "locking" does not really apply to CDMA networks. The
> concept of being able to switch carriers/services at a whim just does
> not apply because there is no simple way of swapping you service
> information between phones.

*nod - But to move a phone to another provider they'd need the SPC code
to be able to plug all their settings in, yes? Failing that, they might
be able to reset it by re-flashing a firmware onto the phone?

It looks easier to just buy a Verizon pre-pay and keep this Australian
phone seperate, so it's now more an exercise just to satisfy my own
curisoity. :) Tah for the info.

PD

--
Paul Day Web: www.bur.st/~paul GPG Key ID: 7FF655A8

[Paul remove-the-nospam Day]

Paul remove-the-nospam Day <paul (AT) nospam (DOT) bur.st> wrote:
> It looks easier to just buy a Verizon pre-pay and keep this Australian
> phone seperate, so it's now more an exercise just to satisfy my own
> curisoity. :) Tah for the info.

Well, seems I just got lucky. Someone at Telstra replied to my email and
gave me the SPC, A-Key and MIN and a firm warning along the lines of "If
you bust your phone moving it across to VZW, don't come crying to us."

PD

--
Paul Day Web: www.bur.st/~paul GPG Key ID: 7FF655A8

[Michael]

"Paul remove-the-nospam Day" <paul (AT) nospam (DOT) bur.st> wrote in message
news:1101211813.852830 (AT) sweep (DOT) ..
> ctr <ctr001 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> > The verizon people don't know what they are talking about. They will
> > need the Service Programming Code to configure the phone, which they
> > will not have. They may be able to re-flash the firmaware, but I doubt
> > it.
>
> Well, looks like you're right so far. :> Despite Telstra saying "our
> CDMA phones aren't locked at all", it's definitely asking me for the SPC
> code when I go to configure (the currently unused) NAM2. :>
>
> Emailed Verizon's techs again asking exactly what they do. eg, flash the
> phone or use software to determine the SPC...

Why dont you just ask Telstra for the SPC?

[Paul remove-the-nospam Day]

Michael <michael (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:
> > Emailed Verizon's techs again asking exactly what they do. eg, flash the
> > phone or use software to determine the SPC...
>
> Why dont you just ask Telstra for the SPC?

I did. :) I was getting no-where fast.

_Eventually_ I found someone with a little clue who managed to email me
five out of the six digits (typo) and then a couple of days later
(today), found another clueful person who gave me all six.

It did take a week and a lot of explaining though. :)

PD

--
Paul Day Web: www.bur.st/~paul GPG Key ID: 7FF655A8

[Michael]

"Paul remove-the-nospam Day" <paul (AT) nospam (DOT) bur.st> wrote in message
news:1101371595.792408 (AT) sweep (DOT) ..
> Michael <michael (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:
> > > Emailed Verizon's techs again asking exactly what they do. eg, flash
the
> > > phone or use software to determine the SPC...
> >
> > Why dont you just ask Telstra for the SPC?
>
> I did. :) I was getting no-where fast.
>
> _Eventually_ I found someone with a little clue who managed to email me
> five out of the six digits (typo) and then a couple of days later
> (today), found another clueful person who gave me all six.
>
> It did take a week and a lot of explaining though. :)

it is an unusual request. they might get one of those in their career

[Paul remove-the-nospam Day]

Michael <michael (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:
> > It did take a week and a lot of explaining though. :)
>
> it is an unusual request. they might get one of those in their career

I know. Not giving them a hard time over it. I'm surprised to actually
get it to tell the truth.

PD

--
Paul Day Web: www.bur.st/~paul GPG Key ID: 7FF655A8