AE700 and dvd players

[GMac]

I have an AE700 on order and am currently using a 3 year old but relatively
expensive($1000) Sony dvd player.I am considering buying a new dvd player
but budget is v.limited after the projector purchase.I was thinking of the
new Pioneer 676 , as this will also allow entry to the world of dvd-a and
sacd and this is available for $200 in Perth.
My question is this : should I just stick with the Sony and allow the
projector to do the scaling or will their be an obvious video quality
benefit using the progressive 676.
I have always been happy with the Sony and would buy the Rotel rdv1060 if it
had dvi/hdmi output and finances allowed.The Pioneer will really only be a
stop gap until the next gen Rotel dvd players arrive , presumably with the
new digital video outputs.
Help ?????
Gordon

[Rob]

"GMac" <gor2003@smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
news:cpu4kn$slb$1@news-02.connect.com.au...
> I have an AE700 on order and am currently using a 3 year old but
relatively
> expensive($1000) Sony dvd player.I am considering buying a new dvd player
> but budget is v.limited after the projector purchase.I was thinking of the
> new Pioneer 676 , as this will also allow entry to the world of dvd-a and
> sacd and this is available for $200 in Perth.
> My question is this : should I just stick with the Sony and allow the
> projector to do the scaling or will their be an obvious video quality
> benefit using the progressive 676.
> I have always been happy with the Sony and would buy the Rotel rdv1060 if
it
> had dvi/hdmi output and finances allowed.The Pioneer will really only be a
> stop gap until the next gen Rotel dvd players arrive , presumably with the
> new digital video outputs.
> Help ?????
> Gordon
>
Gordon,
Do it !
I supplemented my Toshiba SD9000 ($2+ player 4 years ago) with the 676A.
The Panny will appreciate it and so will you. The progressive Pal output
from the Pie
does in fact improve playback quality. The DVD-A and SACD is not that great
but at the $200 price point I'm not whinging.
Also the drive in the Pioneer is a tad noisy

Run an S-Video cable from your Sony, the picture is not that bad

The Panasonic S97 might be worth looking at, when it arrives, HDMI native
and 1080i
output.

Rob
NSW

[JamieWilson]

Or you could use your PC, if nothing to see how good it really can look.
Building a dedicated HTPC DVD player isn't hard, although it will cost you
more then $200 But I would guess that any PC with a modern graphics card in
it is going to out perform your stand alone DVD player, progressive or not.

Regards
Jamie
"GMac" <gor2003@smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
news:cpu4kn$slb$1@news-02.connect.com.au...
>I have an AE700 on order and am currently using a 3 year old but relatively
> expensive($1000) Sony dvd player.I am considering buying a new dvd player
> but budget is v.limited after the projector purchase.I was thinking of the
> new Pioneer 676 , as this will also allow entry to the world of dvd-a and
> sacd and this is available for $200 in Perth.
> My question is this : should I just stick with the Sony and allow the
> projector to do the scaling or will their be an obvious video quality
> benefit using the progressive 676.
> I have always been happy with the Sony and would buy the Rotel rdv1060 if
> it
> had dvi/hdmi output and finances allowed.The Pioneer will really only be a
> stop gap until the next gen Rotel dvd players arrive , presumably with the
> new digital video outputs.
> Help ?????
> Gordon
>
>

[Jace the Ace]

I have an AE700 on order and am currently using a 3 year old but relatively
expensive($1000) Sony dvd player.I am considering buying a new dvd player
but budget is v.limited after the projector purchase.I was thinking of the
new Pioneer 676 , as this will also allow entry to the world of dvd-a and
sacd and this is available for $200 in Perth.
My question is this : should I just stick with the Sony and allow the
projector to do the scaling or will their be an obvious video quality
benefit using the progressive 676.
I have always been happy with the Sony and would buy the Rotel rdv1060 if it
had dvi/hdmi output and finances allowed.The Pioneer will really only be a
stop gap until the next gen Rotel dvd players arrive , presumably with the
new digital video outputs.
Help ?????
Gordon

You have to get a progressive scan player. I don't know whether the Pioneer will scale to the full 720p, though. I think only HDMI enabled players can do this. I have a Pioneer 969 combined with my ae700 and the picture is noticeably better than via the component input. Sending a component interlaced picture to the projector is a no go - it looks like complete crap.

[Fishbee]

"Jace the Ace" <Jace.the.Ace.1hffzx@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in
message news:Jace.the.Ace.1hffzx@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au...
>
> GMac Wrote:
>> I have an AE700 on order and am currently using a 3 year old but
>> relatively
>> expensive($1000) Sony dvd player.I am considering buying a new dvd
>> player
>> but budget is v.limited after the projector purchase.I was thinking of
>> the
>> new Pioneer 676 , as this will also allow entry to the world of dvd-a
>> and
>> sacd and this is available for $200 in Perth.
>> My question is this : should I just stick with the Sony and allow the
>> projector to do the scaling or will their be an obvious video quality
>> benefit using the progressive 676.
> You have to get a progressive scan player. I don't know whether the
> Pioneer will scale to the full 720p, though. I think only HDMI enabled
> players can do this. I have a Pioneer 969 combined with my ae700 and
> the picture is noticeably better than via the component input. Sending
> a component interlaced picture to the projector is a no go - it looks
> like complete crap.
>
Ace:

Why are you not using HDMI from your 969?

Fishbee

[Jace the Ace]

"Jace the Ace" <Jace.the.Ace.1hffzx@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in
message news:Jace.the.Ace.1hffzx@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au...
>
> GMac Wrote:
>> I have an AE700 on order and am currently using a 3 year old but
>> relatively
>> expensive($1000) Sony dvd player.I am considering buying a new dvd
>> player
>> but budget is v.limited after the projector purchase.I was thinking of
>> the
>> new Pioneer 676 , as this will also allow entry to the world of dvd-a
>> and
>> sacd and this is available for $200 in Perth.
>> My question is this : should I just stick with the Sony and allow the
>> projector to do the scaling or will their be an obvious video quality
>> benefit using the progressive 676.
> You have to get a progressive scan player. I don't know whether the
> Pioneer will scale to the full 720p, though. I think only HDMI enabled
> players can do this. I have a Pioneer 969 combined with my ae700 and
> the picture is noticeably better than via the component input. Sending
> a component interlaced picture to the projector is a no go - it looks
> like complete crap.
>
Ace:

Why are you not using HDMI from your 969?

Fishbee


I am. The only time I don't is when I want to watch non-anamorphic widescreen material, as the HDMI connection doesn't let you zoom the picture.

[loudtalker]

Try the new denon DVD players, in specific the 1910. its picture quality is pretty darn good for a $499 machine, and you have a DVI output available too. Or if money stretches, try the 2910. its $1299, but its the machine to beat at the moment.

on the HDMI/DVI vs component issue, its down to the quality of the processing on both devices. I hooked up a Denon DVD player with DVI vs component to a Fujitsu Plasma, and the results weren't as different as big as you might expect. the Fujitsu processing is pretty darn good, for scaling up from a good image. if you give it a good image, it'll do a good job. in comparison via DVI the fujitsu is still processing the image coming in, regardless of what level of scaling is being used on the machine. the only way to defeat the processing is to use a video scaler and set the machines for one to one pixel matching.

P.S. the pioneer is pretty average, their players have been going downhill for a while. its pretty full featured, but I would be quite surprised if your sony wasn't as good. Im not going to go on the whole tirade of Progressive scan on PAL, but I don't think you'll see much of an improvement. I'd save that two hundred bucks and put it towards a really good machine.

[Italo]

"loudtalker" <loudtalker.1hibp2@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in message
news:loudtalker.1hibp2@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au...
....in comparison via DVI the fujitsu is still processing
> the image coming in, regardless of what level of scaling is being used
> on the machine.

Doesn't the Denon 2910 upsample the image to 720p, 1080i etc... and doesn't
that match up to the resolution of the Fujitsu panel? BTW what specifically
were the PQ differences between using Component or the DVI output to the
Fujitsu and can you adjust picture parameters through the DVI input?

--
Italo

[Jace the Ace]

P.S. the pioneer is pretty average, their players have been going downhill for a while. its pretty full featured, but I would be quite surprised if your sony wasn't as good. Im not going to go on the whole tirade of Progressive scan on PAL, but I don't think you'll see much of an improvement. I'd save that two hundred bucks and put it towards a really good machine.

Well, the Pioneer 969 sure as hell beats the new Denons. No macroblocking, no chroma delay, no green push, they play every disc you throw at them... the new Denon range have a raft of problems, particularly the Denon 1910 which is a pile of steaming crap with some of the worst macroblocking ever seen in a DVD player. The 2910 and 3910 use a different Faroudja chip (that *still* has macroblocking problems, however). I had to return the 3910 and replace it with the 969, and I sure as hell don't regret that decision.

[Michael]

Doesn't say much for the AE700's scaler then. BTW, what are the street
prices like for the Pioneer 969?

"Jace the Ace" <Jace.the.Ace.1hffzx@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au> wrote in
message news:Jace.the.Ace.1hffzx@no-mx.forums.eyo.com.au...
> You have to get a progressive scan player. I don't know whether the
> Pioneer will scale to the full 720p, though. I think only HDMI enabled
> players can do this. I have a Pioneer 969 combined with my ae700 and
> the picture is noticeably better than via the component input. Sending
> a component interlaced picture to the projector is a no go - it looks
> like complete crap.

[Jace the Ace]

Doesn't say much for the AE700's scaler then. BTW, what are the street
prices like for the Pioneer 969?

You can't expect much in a projector that costs around $3k. For an entry level projector such as the ae700, you will need an external scaler such as the Iscan HD+ or a DVD player that has a decent scaler built in (preferably without the dreaded Faroujda chip). The Pioneer, which has its own proprietary scaler, can be had for around $1800.

[tassiedevil]

Well, the Pioneer 969 sure as hell beats the new Denons. No macroblocking, no chroma delay, no green push, they play every disc you throw at them... the new Denon range have a raft of problems, particularly the Denon 1910 which is a pile of steaming crap with some of the worst macroblocking ever seen in a DVD player. The 2910 and 3910 use a different Faroudja chip (that *still* has macroblocking problems, however). I had to return the 3910 and replace it with the 969, and I sure as hell don't regret that decision.
Hey Jace. I am hoping you can clarify a couple of things for me. I am in the same position as Gmac, looking for a high end DVD player. I have a Denon 3805 amp and a Panasonic AE700 projector. I had just about made up my mind to buy a 3910 then I found this thread. I am wondering whether the 3910 would be the right player for me, being able to take advantage of HDMI and Denon-Link. I have read all the specs on the 969 and compared to the 3910, here's my preliminary report.
Things I’ve noticed about the Pioneer-
No JPG or Kodak picture CD playback
No WMA playback
Nothing mentioned about HDCD
So far I can only see it available in gold (wanted black)
Horizontal video lines (dvd) = 540. Nothing mentioned about scaling / supporting and no mention about 720p / 1080i
3.7Kg lighter in weight…
No denonlink, but irrelevant to anyone without supporting amp eg 3805
Plusses include -
216Mhz 14 bit D/A converter vs the 216/12 it in the Denon (irrelevant if we are using digital video out as it won’t need to convert video from D to A….)
3 year warranty vs 2 for the Denon
28 mm less height in the cabinet

Price is not an issue - I can get them at similar prices (in the scheme of things) but I still have confusion.
What is macroblocking? And chroma delay, and green push? Does the 3910 suffer from any of this or is it more about the 1910 / 2910?
What specifically makes the 969 a better unit to you?
I would really appreciate your open input here, as I really have no-one else that can answer this. Being in Tasmania, I am unable to go to ANY store to see EITHER unit. Looking forward to you, email me if you like.

[loudtalker]

Well, since jace made his comments, the 3910 has undergone a firmware upgrade, addressing the Chroma bug issues.

I haven't had enough of a play with a 969 to really put it through its paces for video playback, they have always produced a machine with a good picture. Sound wise though, they have always sounded really thin, lacking the body and musicality that the Denon has. It will partner very well with your 3805(awesome receiver!). You can use Denon Link, which is good, but not earth shattering when compared with a good co-ax lead.

Its a shame you can't visit a retailer to arrange a Demo, I'm sure there are Denon Dealers in Tasmania...

[Jace the Ace]

Hey Jace. I am hoping you can clarify a couple of things for me. I am in the same position as Gmac, looking for a high end DVD player. I have a Denon 3805 amp and a Panasonic AE700 projector. I had just about made up my mind to buy a 3910 then I found this thread. I am wondering whether the 3910 would be the right player for me, being able to take advantage of HDMI and Denon-Link. I have read all the specs on the 969 and compared to the 3910, here's my preliminary report.
Things I’ve noticed about the Pioneer-
No JPG or Kodak picture CD playback
No WMA playback
Nothing mentioned about HDCD
So far I can only see it available in gold (wanted black)
Horizontal video lines (dvd) = 540. Nothing mentioned about scaling / supporting and no mention about 720p / 1080i
3.7Kg lighter in weight…
No denonlink, but irrelevant to anyone without supporting amp eg 3805
Plusses include -
216Mhz 14 bit D/A converter vs the 216/12 it in the Denon (irrelevant if we are using digital video out as it won’t need to convert video from D to A….)
3 year warranty vs 2 for the Denon
28 mm less height in the cabinet

Price is not an issue - I can get them at similar prices (in the scheme of things) but I still have confusion.
What is macroblocking? And chroma delay, and green push? Does the 3910 suffer from any of this or is it more about the 1910 / 2910?
What specifically makes the 969 a better unit to you?
I would really appreciate your open input here, as I really have no-one else that can answer this. Being in Tasmania, I am unable to go to ANY store to see EITHER unit. Looking forward to you, email me if you like.


There is one big reason why I chose the 969 over the Denon 3910. The picture. It is as flawless as you can get with a standard definition DVD player, via both HDMI and component. As for the sound, well, if it's 'thin' compared to the Denon, then the Denon will probably make your ear drums bleed. I checked out the Denon, and Macroblocking is very noticeable - these are black splotches appearing all over the screen in very dark scenes and are caused by the Faroujda deinterlacing chip in the Denon. It can't be fixed. I understand that the green push has been fixed in the new firmware. Another major benefit of the Pioneer for me is that it outputs 480i/756i via HDMI which makes it perfect for use with an external scaler such as the Iscan HD+. It also upscales internally to 720p and 1080i. The Denon only does the latter, which means an external scaler is only beneficial via component outputs, not HDMI. Finally, it plays every DVD you throw at it. The Denons are notorious for being difficult with some discs. There are a number of threads on the identical US version of this player, the 59avi, over at the AVS Forum, one being a side by side comparison with the Denon 3910.

[tassiedevil]

There is one big reason why I chose the 969 over the Denon 3910. The picture. It is as flawless as you can get with a standard definition DVD player, via both HDMI and component. As for the sound, well, if it's 'thin' compared to the Denon, then the Denon will probably make your ear drums bleed.


Its a shame you can't visit a retailer to arrange a Demo, I'm sure there are Denon Dealers in Tasmania...

Thanks for your responses.
Looks like I'm buying the 3910!

can output a 480i/756i interlaced signal via HDMI
My projector does 720p / 1080i compared to the upscaling from 540 lines on the pioneer. Can't remember what the *raw* output from lines is on the Denon 3910 but do believe it to better match the capabilities of my projector.
No mention of HDCD on the Pioneer
Only available in Gold - minor issue but will not look so good in our system...
No JPG / WMA playback
Simplicity of remotes - bot units being Denon, easier to get set up with the receiver remote to do both.
No denonlink to play with - DenonLink has been approved for SACD playback.
Sure the 969 would be a great unit, but I think the 3910 is the closest I can get to one unit that will do pretty much everything I need to.
I cannot demo either in Tassie because no-one has one.
The shirtty dvd players I am using for playback at the moment aren't even progressive or component so I am looking forward to anything that looks and sounds better - something that will show off the potential of my system.
Wanted to put all my reasoning here so others can see where I'm coming from if the info helps them.
Pity I gotta buy a new unit when Blu-ray / HD-DVD comes out if I want the full benefit.
Thanks all.

[Jace the Ace]

Thanks for your responses.
Looks like I'm buying the 3910!

My projector does 720p / 1080i compared to the upscaling from 540 lines on the pioneer.

The Pioneer also upscales to 720p/1080i, in ADDITION to outputting the native resolution of the DVD (which is an added benefit over the 3910). I also have a Panasonic AE700 combined with the Pioneer 969 and the picture is stunning and certainly improved over the 3910 I was forced to take back due to macroblocking.