A fatality in my street

[Ben Thomas]

Hi all,

I live in a quiet backstreet 45kms south east of Melbourne. It's quite wide,
with extra "lanes" for parking, so you don't have to cross the centre line to go
around parked cars. It also has chicanes at every T intersection and big
round-a-bouts at every cross intersection.

A motorcyclist hit a street light pole at one of the T intersections very early
yesterday morning and died. The chicanes are not so tight that you couldn't
straight line them on a bike, so I can't see why he hit the pole. The light pole
is right on the point of the chicane. If the pole hadn't been there - ie a few
feet back, he would still be alive. Very sad.

--
Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia
2001 manual 2.2l Holden Astra SRi - a real pleasure to drive;
Michelin Preceda - $250 each but last a lot longer than $200 tyres;
Alpine Type S speakers and amp, JVC MP3 CD playing head-unit.

Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
given nor endorsed by it.

[David Z]

What's a chicane???

"Ben Thomas" <nosp@m.thanks.mate> wrote in message
news:t6ddqc.rup.ln@192.168.11.2...
> Hi all,
>
> I live in a quiet backstreet 45kms south east of Melbourne. It's quite
> wide, with extra "lanes" for parking, so you don't have to cross the
> centre line to go around parked cars. It also has chicanes at every T
> intersection and big round-a-bouts at every cross intersection.
>
> A motorcyclist hit a street light pole at one of the T intersections very
> early yesterday morning and died. The chicanes are not so tight that you
> couldn't straight line them on a bike, so I can't see why he hit the pole.
> The light pole is right on the point of the chicane. If the pole hadn't
> been there - ie a few feet back, he would still be alive. Very sad.
>
> --
> Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia
> 2001 manual 2.2l Holden Astra SRi - a real pleasure to drive;
> Michelin Preceda - $250 each but last a lot longer than $200 tyres;
> Alpine Type S speakers and amp, JVC MP3 CD playing head-unit.
>
> Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
> relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as
> neither
> given nor endorsed by it.

[Jac]

"Ben Thomas" <nosp@m.thanks.mate> wrote in message
news:t6ddqc.rup.ln@192.168.11.2...
> A motorcyclist hit a street light pole at one of the T intersections very
> early yesterday morning and died. The chicanes are not so tight that you
> couldn't straight line them on a bike, so I can't see why he hit the pole.
> The light pole is right on the point of the chicane. If the pole hadn't
> been there - ie a few feet back, he would still be alive. Very sad.

Maybe I'm not visualizing this right but that sounds like a silly place for
a light pole....

Is that standard placement?

Jac

[cyberhonky]

Hi all,

I live in a quiet backstreet 45kms south east of Melbourne. It's quite wide,
with extra "lanes" for parking, so you don't have to cross the centre line to go
around parked cars. It also has chicanes at every T intersection and big
round-a-bouts at every cross intersection.

A motorcyclist hit a street light pole at one of the T intersections very early
yesterday morning and died. The chicanes are not so tight that you couldn't
straight line them on a bike, so I can't see why he hit the pole. The light pole
is right on the point of the chicane. If the pole hadn't been there - ie a few
feet back, he would still be alive. Very sad.

--
Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia
2001 manual 2.2l Holden Astra SRi - a real pleasure to drive;
Michelin Preceda - $250 each but last a lot longer than $200 tyres;
Alpine Type S speakers and amp, JVC MP3 CD playing head-unit.

Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
given nor endorsed by it.

whats the speed limit in your "quiet backstreet"?

[Leanne]

> What's a chicane???

when the road goes into one.

--
Leanne
--------------------------------
Before you were conceived I wanted you,
Before you were born I loved you,
Before you were here an hour I would die for you,
This is the miracle of life.

http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lstacherski/album?.dir=/1b24&.src=ph&.tok=ph_0BGCBvVMFF54J

[cyberhonky]

> What's a chicane???

when the road goes into one.

--
Leanne
--------------------------------
Before you were conceived I wanted you,
Before you were born I loved you,
Before you were here an hour I would die for you,
This is the miracle of life.

http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lstacherski/album?.dir=/1b24&.src=ph&.tok=ph_0BGCBvVMFF54J

na- its the "kinks" in the road used for speed control- the ones you can normally drive (just about) straight thru- or drive right over the top

[Feral]

Leanne wrote:

>>What's a chicane???
>
>
> when the road goes into one.
>
Are you DavidZ's sister by any chance?

--
Take Care.
Feral

[OzOne]

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:31:38 GMT, "David Z" <dave@hotmail.com>
scribbled thusly:

>What's a chicane???
>
A single chic.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

[Diesel Damo]

Also known as "traffic calming devices" - LOL

[Feral]

David Z wrote:

> What's a chicane???

Pick one David. :-)

chicane. a bridge hand that is void of trumps.

Chicane. A band.

chicane. A man-made corner set up on a road course at certain intervals
to reduce the speed of the field of cars.



--
Take Care.
Feral

[OzOne]

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:31:38 GMT, "David Z" <dave@hotmail.com>
scribbled thusly:

>What's a chicane???

Bloody tinea's acting up again.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

[Feral]

OzOne wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:31:38 GMT, "David Z" <dave@hotmail.com>
> scribbled thusly:
>
>
>>What's a chicane???
>
>
> Bloody tinea's acting up again.

At least I answered his question. ;-)

--
Take Care.
Feral

[Mike]

Ben Thomas wrote in message ...
>Hi all,
>
>I live in a quiet backstreet 45kms south east of Melbourne. It's quite
wide,
>with extra "lanes" for parking, so you don't have to cross the centre line
to go
>around parked cars. It also has chicanes at every T intersection and big
>round-a-bouts at every cross intersection.
>
>A motorcyclist hit a street light pole at one of the T intersections very
early
>yesterday morning and died. The chicanes are not so tight that you couldn't
>straight line them on a bike, so I can't see why he hit the pole. The light
pole
>is right on the point of the chicane. If the pole hadn't been there - ie a
few
>feet back, he would still be alive. Very sad.
>
>--
>Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia
>2001 manual 2.2l Holden Astra SRi - a real pleasure to drive;
>Michelin Preceda - $250 each but last a lot longer than $200 tyres;
>Alpine Type S speakers and amp, JVC MP3 CD playing head-unit.
>
>Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
>relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as
neither
>given nor endorsed by it.

>The chicanes are not so tight that you couldn't
>straight line them on a bike, so I can't see why he hit the pole.
Lets be honest. He was probably speeding. The old man is a paramedic and
virtually all the accidents he sees with Bikes are due to them doing the
wrong thing. When I see guys riding bikes in summer with a t-shirt and
shorts on I wonder what their IQ is?

Mike

[Ben Thomas]

cyberhonky wrote:
> Ben Thomas Wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I live in a quiet backstreet 45kms south east of Melbourne. It's quite
>>wide,
>>with extra "lanes" for parking, so you don't have to cross the centre
>>line to go
>>around parked cars. It also has chicanes at every T intersection and
>>big
>>round-a-bouts at every cross intersection.
>>
>>A motorcyclist hit a street light pole at one of the T intersections
>>very early
>>yesterday morning and died. The chicanes are not so tight that you
>>couldn't
>>straight line them on a bike, so I can't see why he hit the pole. The
>>light pole
>>is right on the point of the chicane. If the pole hadn't been there -
>>ie a few
>>feet back, he would still be alive. Very sad.
>>
>>--
>>Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia
>>2001 manual 2.2l Holden Astra SRi - a real pleasure to drive;
>>Michelin Preceda - $250 each but last a lot longer than $200 tyres;
>>Alpine Type S speakers and amp, JVC MP3 CD playing head-unit.
>>
>>Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do
>>not
>>relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as
>>neither
>>given nor endorsed by it.
>
>
> whats the speed limit in your "quiet backstreet"?
>
>

50. A visually identical street that it crosses has a limit of 60. The other
street carries more traffic but it's the same width with the same visibility,
housing density, etc.

--
Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia
2001 manual 2.2l Holden Astra SRi - a real pleasure to drive;
Michelin Preceda - $250 each but last a lot longer than $200 tyres;
Alpine Type S speakers and amp, JVC MP3 CD playing head-unit.

Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
given nor endorsed by it.

[hippo]

aka "driver infuriating" devices

[cyberhonky]

*snip*

50. A visually identical street that it crosses has a limit of 60. The other
street carries more traffic but it's the same width with the same visibility,
housing density, etc.

--
Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia
2001 manual 2.2l Holden Astra SRi - a real pleasure to drive;
Michelin Preceda - $250 each but last a lot longer than $200 tyres;
Alpine Type S speakers and amp, JVC MP3 CD playing head-unit.

Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
given nor endorsed by it.


do you reckon he/she was doing 50? (just a guess) i'd think at 50km/hr you'd have an above average chance of survival (depending on how you hit of course) but at 70+ i wouldn't like my chances

[Fred Ferd]

"Ben Thomas" <nosp@m.thanks.mate> wrote in message
news:t6ddqc.rup.ln@192.168.11.2...
> Hi all,
>
> I live in a quiet backstreet 45kms south east of Melbourne. It's quite
> wide, with extra "lanes" for parking, so you don't have to cross the
> centre line to go around parked cars. It also has chicanes at every T
> intersection and big round-a-bouts at every cross intersection.
>
> A motorcyclist hit a street light pole at one of the T intersections very
> early yesterday morning and died. The chicanes are not so tight that you
> couldn't straight line them on a bike, so I can't see why he hit the pole.
> The light pole is right on the point of the chicane. If the pole hadn't
> been there - ie a few feet back, he would still be alive. Very sad.

Hmm, he may have had the speed wobbles, or had the front wheel in the air,
and drifted into it.

But also with a motorbike, to steer to the right a bit, and you dont feel
like using your body weight to steer, you subconsciously nudge the steering
LEFT just slightly and let it have its result. The front wheel goes left
slightly, the bike leans right -saving you the effort of causing this to
happen by bodyweight - and then front wheel swings back to go to the right
..... the steering is controlled by the lean, so that nudge left doesnt just
steer left - it steers left then right.

The trouble with doing this is the left turn bit.

He may have been a bit groggy/off his head and when he noticed he was
heading toward, or close to, the chicane, he nudges the steering left to do
this right turn .... with the result being that the bike moved left before
it moved right.. with obvious consequence.


yes these poles are dangerous, the person who put it there should be charged
with manslaughter.
poles right on the edge of the driving lane are murderous - its a bit harder
to judge where the pole is in the normal position for poles. but in this
case, the pole is on the roadway - thats just plain stupid. It must be
against road design rules - IE MANSLAUGHTER or gross neglicence of duties
applies.

Poles near the driving lane have killed many times before - eg school
children who put their head out the window have been killed by poles. drunk
people vommitting out car windows... that sort of thing.
Also poles fall down when hit hard. they get damaged and need repair .. it
must be cheaper to set the things back from the traffic, despite the extra
cost in digging/footpath /shoulder /drain rebuild work and size of the pole.

Gold coast buses tilt over when they stop to pickup/setdown. If the driver
starts to drive without resetting the suspension back, and the driver
steers right to get back onto the road, the tilt gets worse and it breaks
windows on poles/bus shelters/etc. You would think they had an interlock of
some sort... but its another case for moving all poles and other things away
from the gutter - or at least the driving lanes, intersections and bus
stops.









>
> --
> Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia
> 2001 manual 2.2l Holden Astra SRi - a real pleasure to drive;
> Michelin Preceda - $250 each but last a lot longer than $200 tyres;
> Alpine Type S speakers and amp, JVC MP3 CD playing head-unit.
>
> Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
> relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as
> neither
> given nor endorsed by it.

[hippo]

Ben Thomas wrote:

>A motorcyclist hit a street light pole at one of the T intersections
very
>early
>yesterday morning and died. The chicanes are not so tight that you
>couldn't
>straight line them on a bike, so I can't see why he hit the pole. The
>light pole
>is right on the point of the chicane. If the pole hadn't been there - ie
a
>few
>feet back, he would still be alive. Very sad.

Could also the reuslt of a thing called "point fixation".
You see a hazard or an obstacle and then concentrate on it so hard that
you finish up driving into it. Happens to most people, most likely with
less experience but I've seen grandparents clobber things for no other
rational reason when they *were* awake. It's often guide posts, armco,
petrol bowsers, poles, garden gates and things, usually at a low enough
speed that it doesn't matter. When it's an oncoming car or truck, it's
another story. Sorry to hear about it though. We need more long term bikes
on the road, not less. Cheers

[Fred Ferd]

"Leanne" <ldss1@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:32utecF3s4q62U1@individual.net...
>> What's a chicane???
>
> when the road goes into one.

No.

Chicane means "trick", and in racing it got applied to a tricky corner and
then to an S bend - S bends have to upset the vehicles placement on the
road, so older racing cars with stiff suspension always had issues on S
bends.. tricked into going fast by the appearance of the gentle curves, but
finding themselves all out of sorts when the camber changed.

So to make the chicane at the race track, they used lumps of concrete which
are at the edge. One on each side of the race track but positioned so that
the driving line is an S bend ...

Now the OP used the word chicane for the restrictions placed at T
intersections and other places.

These restrictors probably didnt form an S bend, and hence SHOULD NOT be
called chicanes.
(there are chicane restrictors but they are not used at T intersections).

The restrictors are at the same place on the road - they are not spaced
along the road.


The restrictors (whether in chicane configuration or not) have the
influence of slowing down most traffic.
They also tend to keep the vehicles from driving in the gutter.

The negatives -
* straight roads are safer, as corners require steering and steering is
lost due to loss of traction, and motorbikes have an extra delay in steering
right (left) due to the wheel steering left(right) when the bike first
begins to lean ). Restrictors bend straight roads.

* putting two vehicles that arrive at the same corner at the same time
heading in different directions into head on collision mode,

* not allowing any room at all for the traffic to steer off the road should
the road ahead become blocked
* The corner is made tighter, so more vehicles will screetch wheels during
the turn,
* and the vehicles that slow down will have to speed up, and they may rev
their engines hard to do so.
* The loss of traction caused by heavy acceleration can be more dangerous
than doing the constant high speed that they were accelerating to.

* extra delays waiting for large vehicles waiting for a gap to appear to
negotiate the restriction .
this includes all vehicles that are designed for offroad use whose drivers
are not even able to drive a normal onroad only passenger vehicle .


* and of course large concrete blocks , light poles and other things on
roads kill people when they accidently bump into them .. turning what was a
safe road into a death trap.

WRX's launch off these concrete pads and then self destruct when they hit
the ground some time later.













>
> --
> Leanne
> --------------------------------
> Before you were conceived I wanted you,
> Before you were born I loved you,
> Before you were here an hour I would die for you,
> This is the miracle of life.
>
> http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lstacherski/album?.dir=/1b24&.src=ph&.tok=ph_0BGCBvVMFF54J
>
>

[Moike]

Mike wrote:


> Lets be honest.

Lets jump to conclusions

> He was probably speeding.
every time someone goes 3 k over, God strangles a puppy!

> The old man is a paramedic and
> virtually all the accidents he sees with Bikes are due to them doing the
> wrong thing.

Amazing what you learn in paramedic school these days. Who's looking
after the patients while your old man is busy playing CSI and
reconstructing the accident scene?

> When I see guys riding bikes in summer with a t-shirt and
> shorts on I wonder what their IQ is?

I wonder if you can count that high.

Moike