If you were a working at a wheel alignment facility ...

[What The]

and i bought my car in saying i was setting the car up for a track day and wanted
some extra camber on the front wheels assuming current camber was 1.0-1.1 deg
negative and i wanted -1.25 to -1.5 if adjustment allowed it, what would you do given
the following situation:

Car was found to have -1.7degrees camber per side already. Would you contact the
customer and advise them of this and ask if they wanted more camber if adjustment
allowed, or would you go ahead and set the camber back to -1.20deg ?

Just curious what you'd do if you were the person working on the car...

[The Raven]

"What The" <meh@meh.com> wrote in message
news:CqsEd.113025$K7.52914@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> and i bought my car in saying i was setting the car up for a track day and
> wanted some extra camber on the front wheels assuming current camber was
> 1.0-1.1 deg negative and i wanted -1.25 to -1.5 if adjustment allowed it,
> what would you do given the following situation:
>
> Car was found to have -1.7degrees camber per side already. Would you
> contact the customer and advise them of this and ask if they wanted more
> camber if adjustment allowed, or would you go ahead and set the camber
> back to -1.20deg ?
>
> Just curious what you'd do if you were the person working on the car...

If it was a street registered car and the specs you were asking for were
significantly outside the manufacturers range, I'd want you to sign a waiver
or some such. Don't want you dragging me into court because the settings you
asked for (but now deny) caused you to crash or hurt someone.

To a degree, this would be tempered by the type of car/modifications and
your attitude. Show up wearing P plates and asking for drift settings and
I'd probably suggest you go elsewhere.

Ignoring that.....

If the settings were found to be already at the spec you asked for my
actions would have to be based on what you originally said. If you had
indicated as above, I'd probably give you a call and see what you wanted
done. However, if you had simply asked for a particular setting and I found
it already there, you were probably getting me to double check all was still
correct. I wouldn't call in the last scenario.

Remember, most wheel alignments cost $25-$50 so it's not like you can expect
much beyond getting the alignment done.


--
The Raven
http://www.80scartoons.co.uk/batfinkquote.mp3
** Now I will bring chaos to the world!

[What The]

>
> If it was a street registered car and the specs you were asking for were
> significantly outside the manufacturers range, I'd want you to sign a waiver or
> some such. Don't want you dragging me into court because the settings you asked for
> (but now deny) caused you to crash or hurt someone.
>

Street Reg'd car for a "temporary" alignment for some track work, then back to "road
worthy" alignment afterwards, the establishment was aware of this.

> To a degree, this would be tempered by the type of car/modifications and your
> attitude. Show up wearing P plates and asking for drift settings and I'd probably
> suggest you go elsewhere.
>

Modifications to suspension are substantial and my attitude was professional, not
"sick bro i want some lean on those bad ass chrome rims ... bro".

> Ignoring that.....
>
> If the settings were found to be already at the spec you asked for my actions would
> have to be based on what you originally said. If you had indicated as above, I'd
> probably give you a call and see what you wanted done. However, if you had simply
> asked for a particular setting and I found it already there, you were probably
> getting me to double check all was still correct. I wouldn't call in the last
> scenario.
>

That's what i would have expected too...

> Remember, most wheel alignments cost $25-$50 so it's not like you can expect much
> beyond getting the alignment done.
>
>

This was $50 and i didn't expect the establishment to do anything else than use
common sense, which seems to be scarse now days. I didn't expect the establishment to
recommend settings, but when someone asks specifically for the car to be setup for
racing/track work, but doesn't give ultra specific settings, one would assume that
the person doing the wheel alignment would know that camber is required to turn
corners, and the more the better within reason, especially at high speeds.

Either way, thanks for your comments.

Cheers.

[Albm&ctd]

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:50:07 GMT, "What The" <meh@meh.com> wrote:

>
>This was $50 and i didn't expect the establishment to do anything else than use
>common sense, which seems to be scarse now days. I didn't expect the establishment to
>recommend settings, but when someone asks specifically for the car to be setup for
>racing/track work, but doesn't give ultra specific settings, one would assume that
>the person doing the wheel alignment would know that camber is required to turn
>corners, and the more the better within reason, especially at high speeds.
>
>Either way, thanks for your comments.
>
Would you take the chance of wrecking your reputation by doing out of
spec adjustments for someone you don't know?
You must place youself in the shoes of the person performing the wheel
alignment. I think they get a bit scared when you ask for anythig out
of specifications. The wheel alignment is to place the measurements
within the manufacturers specifications, that's all. If they do that
they can get no badmouthing eg: shoddy work. The public do mouth off
at the pub or to their mates and then the guy gets a bad reputation.
You take it to someone else and they say the alignment was out by x
degrees camber and that shop may even badmouth the other shop for
doing shoddy work because they won't know about your verbal
instructions.

If you asked a muffler guy to run a straight through exhaust system
for your track work then it's almost the same thing.

Irrelevant boring stuff below;
Don't worry, I've had the same thing with the white Russian wonder
truck regarding wheel alignment but the suggestion was after finding
the camber within specs, if the toe adjustment did not cure the
problem (outside edge of tyre wearing rapidly) I could adjust the
camber myself and get them just to redo the toe in. I have all the
specs and know how much in spacer thickness to remove for x degrees.
I left it alone and that set of 205-65-15 radials with front to back
rotation wore out in 20,000 km. We have lots of roundabouts and I do
like mountainous back roads rather than boring freeways. I only do
about 10,000 km a year in that vehicle so a new set of 4 tyres every
two years ain't so bad, about $440.

Al

I don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html

[russell hobman]

WHAT? Is it too late to reply to this thread?
Were you happy with the replies?

russell


"What The" <meh@meh.com> wrote in message
news:CqsEd.113025$K7.52914@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> and i bought my car in saying i was setting the car up for a track day and
> wanted some extra camber on the front wheels assuming current camber was
> 1.0-1.1 deg negative and i wanted -1.25 to -1.5 if adjustment allowed it,
> what would you do given the following situation:
>
> Car was found to have -1.7degrees camber per side already. Would you
> contact the customer and advise them of this and ask if they wanted more
> camber if adjustment allowed, or would you go ahead and set the camber
> back to -1.20deg ?
>
> Just curious what you'd do if you were the person working on the car...
>

[What The]

Yeh a bit late to reply mate, but got it all sorted, went to someone else who knew
what they were doing and could follow instructions and they did a simply AWESOME
wheel alignment for the track day, i went back and the re-adjusted for a more "road
suited" setup. It cost me more, but you pay for expertise.

-2.30deg camber is more like what i wanted (i.e the guy knew how to setup the car),
without adjusting ride height... but would have been able to get about -3.0deg with a
drop of 1", but i like the sleeper look i've got going and blew everyone away on the
track day, so it was well worth it.


"russell hobman" <rhobman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:359e76F4ki3asU1@individual.net...
> WHAT? Is it too late to reply to this thread?
> Were you happy with the replies?
>
> russell
>
>

[russell hobman]

Cool.
That crap about waivers and making the car unsafe etc.. and only setting up
a car to manufactures specs.. It's all hog wash as you found out. We can do
anything you want within reason. I was accused of being ""A true "align by
machine" mechanic."" But what was dribbled here was laughable.. ;-))

What sort of car have you got?

russell



"What The" <meh@meh.com> wrote in message
news:cxLHd.125872$K7.28970@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Yeh a bit late to reply mate, but got it all sorted, went to someone else
> who knew what they were doing and could follow instructions and they did a
> simply AWESOME wheel alignment for the track day, i went back and the
> re-adjusted for a more "road suited" setup. It cost me more, but you pay
> for expertise.
>
> -2.30deg camber is more like what i wanted (i.e the guy knew how to setup
> the car), without adjusting ride height... but would have been able to get
> about -3.0deg with a drop of 1", but i like the sleeper look i've got
> going and blew everyone away on the track day, so it was well worth it.
>
>
> "russell hobman" <rhobman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:359e76F4ki3asU1@individual.net...
>> WHAT? Is it too late to reply to this thread?
>> Were you happy with the replies?
>>
>> russell
>>
>>
>

[What The]

Yeh, i basically informed them i needed an agressive wheel alignment for a track day
and that i would be bringing the car back for a road wheel alignment afterwards, but
that information was not enough for them to make a proper decision.
The car is a 1999 Nissan Pulsar SSS with some suspension work that makes it stacks of
fun to drive.


"russell hobman" <rhobman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:359kakF4ifsf9U1@individual.net...
> Cool.
> That crap about waivers and making the car unsafe etc.. and only setting up a car
> to manufactures specs.. It's all hog wash as you found out. We can do anything you
> want within reason. I was accused of being ""A true "align by machine" mechanic.""
> But what was dribbled here was laughable.. ;-))
>
> What sort of car have you got?
>
> russell
>
>

[Ben Thomas]

What The wrote:
> Yeh, i basically informed them i needed an agressive wheel alignment for a track day
> and that i would be bringing the car back for a road wheel alignment afterwards, but
> that information was not enough for them to make a proper decision.
> The car is a 1999 Nissan Pulsar SSS with some suspension work that makes it stacks of
> fun to drive.

What suspension work? I added sway bars to my N13 and that made a huge
difference. Wife's 2000 SSS could be better.


--
Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia
2001 manual 2.2l Holden Astra SRi - a real pleasure to drive;
Michelin Preceda - $250 each but last a lot longer than $200 tyres;
Alpine Type S speakers and amp, JVC MP3 CD playing head-unit.

Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
given nor endorsed by it.

[What The]

"Ben Thomas" <nosp@m.thanks.mate> wrote:
>
> What suspension work? I added sway bars to my N13 and that made a huge difference.
> Wife's 2000 SSS could be better.
>
>


TEIN, Cusco, Whiteline and Motivational Engineering feature parts on my car, i'd
rather not post exactly what it has as a lot of the parts are rather unique due to
being sourced from overseas and rather hard to replace if the car happened to go
missing.

Biggest bang for your buck on the SSS would be replace all the front end bushes with
solid ones from Whiteline (especially steering rack and front sway bar), throw on the
rear sway bar (solid 20mm or adjustable 16-20mm depend on your budget) and perhaps a
0.5-1.0" drop on slightly stiffer springs will improve the car a heap without
spending bucket loads, especially if you can do the work yourself. So far i have done
everthing to my car except for wheel alignments and where a hydraulic press fit for a
bush or whatever has been required.

Solid bushes will transmit more vibration to the steering (obviously), but will
sharpen the response of the steering and with new bushes in the front sway bar i
found it made a big difference, even i think re-lubricating the stock rubber bushes
would be worth while, but the whiteline bushes for the sway bar are so cheap it would
be worth the money.

[Albm&ctd]

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:15:36 GMT, "What The" <meh@meh.com> wrote:

>Yeh a bit late to reply mate, but got it all sorted, went to someone else who knew
>what they were doing and could follow instructions and they did a simply AWESOME
>wheel alignment for the track day, i went back and the re-adjusted for a more "road
>suited" setup. It cost me more, but you pay for expertise.
>
>-2.30deg camber is more like what i wanted (i.e the guy knew how to setup the car),
>without adjusting ride height... but would have been able to get about -3.0deg with a
>drop of 1", but i like the sleeper look i've got going and blew everyone away on the
>track day, so it was well worth it.
>
You seem to be saying -2.30 equals no drop in height from stock and a
'sleeper look' and -3.00 results in 1" (25.4mm) drop.
Did you actually measure the height before and after the track setup
and the 'road suited' setup? I take it 'road suited' meant within
stock measurements?

Al

I don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html

[What The]

Well totally "stock" would be an exaggeration on my part. (stock wheels, stock
muffler though so no "rice" added).

My car is lowered, but to the point where there is still some gap between the guards
and tyre, i.e it doesn't that *that* low, just looks a bit lower than stock. Stock
camber is approx -0.40 (factory listed nominal setting) with aftermarket camber bolts
installed apaprently changes up to +/- 1.0deg.. The car is lowered about 1.0-1.5"
(max) at the front and 0.5-1.0" at the rear. The car doesn't have the "nose in the
sky look" nor does it look like its been heavly lowered or "front heavy"
With the suspension i have installed (designed for lowering while keeping acceptable
shock stroke), without changing to longer springs i would be unable to produce stock
height (albeit by only ~8mm i think).

From stock height i believe that -1.7deg camber would be available with camber bolts,
and more would be available with fully adjustable upper strut mounts.

Just a side note, i didn't lower the car for the track day (maybe for the next
one..), i kept it at the normal ride height i use for the road which gives me no
hassles at all with any speed bumps, driveways etc.


Cheers.


"Albm&ctd" <alb_mandctdNOWMD@connexus.net.au> wrote in message
news:35ha48F4maf5qU7@individual.net...
>>
> You seem to be saying -2.30 equals no drop in height from stock and a
> 'sleeper look' and -3.00 results in 1" (25.4mm) drop.
> Did you actually measure the height before and after the track setup
> and the 'road suited' setup? I take it 'road suited' meant within
> stock measurements?
>
> Al
>
> I don't take sides. It's more fun to insult everyone.
> http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html