Paint problems on new Camry

[jrobbo]

Hi all,

I'm after a bit of advice on paint. My wife bought a new Camry
Sportivo (I know, I hate it too, but it's her car!) last October. We
washed it a few weeks after we got it and noticed quite a few
blemishes in the paintwork. These look like drops of paint on top of
the paint work, but under the clearcoat. You can feel the raised area
if you rub your fingernail over them. The car has been back and forth
to Toyota over the last few months, and both the Service Manager and
Warranty Manager agree it is substandard. Since every panel on the car
is effected, it would require a complete respray, so they needed
someone from Toyota to come out and look at it before they could
approve it.

The guy from Toyota took a look at the car today, and he claims it is
"bug swelling" caused by insect droppings, and therefore not Toyota's
problem. I find this hard to believe: not because bug droppings can
cause paint problems, but because the car has been hardly driven since
we got it. My wife drives it to work twice a week, it is kept in a
garage at work, and in a garage at home. In 4 months, the car has only
done 1600kms. To top it of, my wifes Brother bought exactly the same
car, same color even, about a month later, and his paintwork is
flawless.

I dropped past a panel beaters today, and he reckons that bug
droppings won't cause the problems I have with my paint. So far, I
have found over 50 "spots" over the car, with every panel affected. He
suggested contacting the paint supplier to Toyota (he said it was
probably be PPG) and get them to analyse it.

I'll contact PPG this week, but I guess I really need some pointers
and advice at this point. I don't really know enough about paint to be
able to argue my case.

Any advice appreciated

Regards

John


--------------
To reply via email, remove the spam block from my email address

[Scotty]

Use a white board marker and circle every spot, then take a shit load of
photos and publich yoru findings on every web site that you can,
Manufacturers HATE bad publisity and may just want to contact you directly.


"jrobbo" <newsSPAMSUCKS@jrobbo.com> wrote in message
news:comrv01snrh9qa8ahvhu677od75b2dce88@4ax.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm after a bit of advice on paint. My wife bought a new Camry
> Sportivo (I know, I hate it too, but it's her car!) last October. We
> washed it a few weeks after we got it and noticed quite a few
> blemishes in the paintwork. These look like drops of paint on top of
> the paint work, but under the clearcoat. You can feel the raised area
> if you rub your fingernail over them. The car has been back and forth
> to Toyota over the last few months, and both the Service Manager and
> Warranty Manager agree it is substandard. Since every panel on the car
> is effected, it would require a complete respray, so they needed
> someone from Toyota to come out and look at it before they could
> approve it.
>
> The guy from Toyota took a look at the car today, and he claims it is
> "bug swelling" caused by insect droppings, and therefore not Toyota's
> problem. I find this hard to believe: not because bug droppings can
> cause paint problems, but because the car has been hardly driven since
> we got it. My wife drives it to work twice a week, it is kept in a
> garage at work, and in a garage at home. In 4 months, the car has only
> done 1600kms. To top it of, my wifes Brother bought exactly the same
> car, same color even, about a month later, and his paintwork is
> flawless.
>
> I dropped past a panel beaters today, and he reckons that bug
> droppings won't cause the problems I have with my paint. So far, I
> have found over 50 "spots" over the car, with every panel affected. He
> suggested contacting the paint supplier to Toyota (he said it was
> probably be PPG) and get them to analyse it.
>
> I'll contact PPG this week, but I guess I really need some pointers
> and advice at this point. I don't really know enough about paint to be
> able to argue my case.
>
> Any advice appreciated
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
>
> --------------
> To reply via email, remove the spam block from my email address

[John_H]

jrobbo wrote:

>
>I dropped past a panel beaters today, and he reckons that bug
>droppings won't cause the problems I have with my paint. So far, I
>have found over 50 "spots" over the car, with every panel affected. He
>suggested contacting the paint supplier to Toyota (he said it was
>probably be PPG) and get them to analyse it.

Pretty good advice I would've thought -- particularly since it's more
likely to be a problem with the application than the materials used.

Paint companies usually employ very competent people to deal with
their problems, rather than the jumped up salesman types the car
companies tend to put between their product and the customer.

I'd be surprised if they don't deal with it to your satisfaction.

--
John H

[Tsunami]

"John_H" <john4271@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9norv0pb57ggcih66q6i72213isusigb08@4ax.com...
> jrobbo wrote:
>
> >
> >I dropped past a panel beaters today, and he reckons that bug
> >droppings won't cause the problems I have with my paint. So far, I
> >have found over 50 "spots" over the car, with every panel affected. He
> >suggested contacting the paint supplier to Toyota (he said it was
> >probably be PPG) and get them to analyse it.
>
> Pretty good advice I would've thought -- particularly since it's more
> likely to be a problem with the application than the materials used.
>
> Paint companies usually employ very competent people to deal with
> their problems, rather than the jumped up salesman types the car
> companies tend to put between their product and the customer.
>
> I'd be surprised if they don't deal with it to your satisfaction.
>
> --
> John H

Yes and no. Basically the paint supplier is a subcontractor to Toyota.
*Toyota* are bound by law to fix the problem, and then recover the money
from the supplier if it a product problem.
I agree though that it would be an application problem for sure. I'd
strongly suggest a partly blocked spray nozzle causing the odd "drip" to
come out, rather than a fine mist.

Give them heaps. If no luck contact your state's Fair Trading / Consumer
Protection mob. They usually have a specific motor trades complaint dept.

[John_H]

Tsunami wrote:

>
>Yes and no. Basically the paint supplier is a subcontractor to Toyota.
>*Toyota* are bound by law to fix the problem, and then recover the money
>from the supplier if it a product problem.
>I agree though that it would be an application problem for sure. I'd
>strongly suggest a partly blocked spray nozzle causing the odd "drip" to
>come out, rather than a fine mist.

I didn't mean to suggest that the paint company would fix it, since it
isn't likely to be their problem.

What I would expect from them is an informed and honest appraisal of
the problem -- which the car company would ignore at their peril.

--
John H

[Anthony]

My dad had this problem with his new XR6 Turbo mark2, only a few spot in the
rear quarter panel. Ford took the car back and supplied him with new car
with an upgraded premium sound system for free. I wouldnt let them roll you
over on this.

Id assume is insured. Raise it with your insurer, once they investigate,
surely they convince Toyota of a manufacturing fault.




"jrobbo" <newsSPAMSUCKS@jrobbo.com> wrote in message
news:comrv01snrh9qa8ahvhu677od75b2dce88@4ax.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm after a bit of advice on paint. My wife bought a new Camry
> Sportivo (I know, I hate it too, but it's her car!) last October. We
> washed it a few weeks after we got it and noticed quite a few
> blemishes in the paintwork. These look like drops of paint on top of
> the paint work, but under the clearcoat. You can feel the raised area
> if you rub your fingernail over them. The car has been back and forth
> to Toyota over the last few months, and both the Service Manager and
> Warranty Manager agree it is substandard. Since every panel on the car
> is effected, it would require a complete respray, so they needed
> someone from Toyota to come out and look at it before they could
> approve it.
>
> The guy from Toyota took a look at the car today, and he claims it is
> "bug swelling" caused by insect droppings, and therefore not Toyota's
> problem. I find this hard to believe: not because bug droppings can
> cause paint problems, but because the car has been hardly driven since
> we got it. My wife drives it to work twice a week, it is kept in a
> garage at work, and in a garage at home. In 4 months, the car has only
> done 1600kms. To top it of, my wifes Brother bought exactly the same
> car, same color even, about a month later, and his paintwork is
> flawless.
>
> I dropped past a panel beaters today, and he reckons that bug
> droppings won't cause the problems I have with my paint. So far, I
> have found over 50 "spots" over the car, with every panel affected. He
> suggested contacting the paint supplier to Toyota (he said it was
> probably be PPG) and get them to analyse it.
>
> I'll contact PPG this week, but I guess I really need some pointers
> and advice at this point. I don't really know enough about paint to be
> able to argue my case.
>
> Any advice appreciated
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
>
> --------------
> To reply via email, remove the spam block from my email address

[David Z]

How this car was even allowed to leave the factory is beyond me - don't they
have people who do a visual check on the cars once they're done? It should
have been picked up. Typical Aussie built junk...

"jrobbo" <newsSPAMSUCKS@jrobbo.com> wrote in message
news:comrv01snrh9qa8ahvhu677od75b2dce88@4ax.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm after a bit of advice on paint. My wife bought a new Camry
> Sportivo (I know, I hate it too, but it's her car!) last October. We
> washed it a few weeks after we got it and noticed quite a few
> blemishes in the paintwork. These look like drops of paint on top of
> the paint work, but under the clearcoat. You can feel the raised area
> if you rub your fingernail over them. The car has been back and forth
> to Toyota over the last few months, and both the Service Manager and
> Warranty Manager agree it is substandard. Since every panel on the car
> is effected, it would require a complete respray, so they needed
> someone from Toyota to come out and look at it before they could
> approve it.
>
> The guy from Toyota took a look at the car today, and he claims it is
> "bug swelling" caused by insect droppings, and therefore not Toyota's
> problem. I find this hard to believe: not because bug droppings can
> cause paint problems, but because the car has been hardly driven since
> we got it. My wife drives it to work twice a week, it is kept in a
> garage at work, and in a garage at home. In 4 months, the car has only
> done 1600kms. To top it of, my wifes Brother bought exactly the same
> car, same color even, about a month later, and his paintwork is
> flawless.
>
> I dropped past a panel beaters today, and he reckons that bug
> droppings won't cause the problems I have with my paint. So far, I
> have found over 50 "spots" over the car, with every panel affected. He
> suggested contacting the paint supplier to Toyota (he said it was
> probably be PPG) and get them to analyse it.
>
> I'll contact PPG this week, but I guess I really need some pointers
> and advice at this point. I don't really know enough about paint to be
> able to argue my case.
>
> Any advice appreciated
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
>
> --------------
> To reply via email, remove the spam block from my email address

[D Walford]

David Z wrote:
>
> How this car was even allowed to leave the factory is beyond me - don't they
> have people who do a visual check on the cars once they're done? It should
> have been picked up. Typical Aussie built junk...
>

You are assuming that it left the factory that way which may not be the
case.
Until its inspected and analysed by paint experts we won't know what
caused the problem and only a fool would jump to conclusions.
It would be interesting to know the cars build date and if there was
much time between build and registration, the car may have sat in a yard
exposed to the elements and industrial pollution for quite a while?



Daryl

[Toby Ponsenby]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 21:58:13 +1100, D Walford wrote:

> David Z wrote:
>>
>> How this car was even allowed to leave the factory is beyond me - don't they
>> have people who do a visual check on the cars once they're done? It should
>> have been picked up. Typical Aussie built junk...
>>
>
> You are assuming that it left the factory that way which may not be the
> case.
> Until its inspected and analysed by paint experts we won't know what
> caused the problem and only a fool would jump to conclusions.
> It would be interesting to know the cars build date and if there was
> much time between build and registration, the car may have sat in a yard
> exposed to the elements and industrial pollution for quite a while?
>
>
>
> Daryl

And hail.
Don't forget the hail:-)

--
Toby
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

[sheik yerbouti]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:27:24 +1100, jrobbo <newsSPAMSUCKS@jrobbo.com>
wrote:

>
>I'll contact PPG this week, but I guess I really need some pointers
>and advice at this point. I don't really know enough about paint to be
>able to argue my case.
>

write a letter to the Managing Director, is it still john conomos?
explaining you are disappointed with the quality of paintwork.

cc. it to consumer affairs, Wheels, Fast Toyotas, your state auto
club, federal minister for quality workmanship, etc.


---
vn commodore transmission swap online manual
http://www.freewebs.com/sheik_yerbouti

[sheik yerbouti]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 19:13:31 +1000, John_H <john4271@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>What I would expect from them is an informed and honest appraisal of
>the problem -- which the car company would ignore at their peril.

not likely. as Tsunami said they are a subcontractor to toyota. you
don't bite the hand that feeds.

in the auto industry, the supplier is the walnut and the manufacturer
is the hammer.


---
vn commodore transmission swap online manual
http://www.freewebs.com/sheik_yerbouti

[The Interceptor]

> Yes and no. Basically the paint supplier is a subcontractor to Toyota.
> *Toyota* are bound by law to fix the problem, and then recover the money
> from the supplier if it a product problem.

Yes, and in that regard they shouldn't be palmng him off to their supplier.
It is a Toyota problem. I'd ring up the ladder at Toyota - phone beyond the
dealership, find the state office or similar. Worked for me with Subaru and
I got a successful post-warranty claim.

Brett

[Noddy]

"sheik yerbouti" <delbo21@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:j98sv0luvvfvlikijlfioi2uu18k057762@4ax.com...

> not likely. as Tsunami said they are a subcontractor to toyota. you
> don't bite the hand that feeds.

They'd give their honest opinion as John said, and even if it's for no
reason other than to prevent the blame being laid at their door.

The analyst at PPG won't give a fuck about how much paint Toyota buys...

> in the auto industry, the supplier is the walnut and the manufacturer
> is the hammer.

In some countries, but not so much here.

The Australian automotive manufacturing industry is heavily reliant on
independent third party manufacturers.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Toby Ponsenby]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 20:03:00 GMT, Noddy wrote:

> The Australian automotive manufacturing industry is heavily reliant on
> independent third party manufacturers.

And

The Australian independent third party manufacturers are heavily
reliant on the manufacturers.

I've been figuring the arrangement in Japan is not a lot different on
the surface to ours. BUT, it appears that there is a shitload of
corruption and nepotism involved and it often involves slings both
ways that might just be such a cosy arrangement that the parts turned
out are *good* stuff - given the stakes involved.
Hence the reliability of Jappie ancillaries.

--
Toby
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

[Samual]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 18:27:24 +1100, jrobbo <newsSPAMSUCKS@jrobbo.com>
wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I'm after a bit of advice on paint. My wife bought a new Camry
>Sportivo (I know, I hate it too, but it's her car!) last October. We
>washed it a few weeks after we got it and noticed quite a few
>blemishes in the paintwork. These look like drops of paint on top of
>the paint work, but under the clearcoat. You can feel the raised area
>if you rub your fingernail over them. The car has been back and forth
>to Toyota over the last few months, and both the Service Manager and
>Warranty Manager agree it is substandard. Since every panel on the car
>is effected, it would require a complete respray, so they needed
>someone from Toyota to come out and look at it before they could
>approve it.
>
>The guy from Toyota took a look at the car today, and he claims it is
>"bug swelling" caused by insect droppings, and therefore not Toyota's
>problem.

Where are the marks ?

Only on the horizonal panels or on the vertical panels as well?

If it is on only the horizontal he may have a point but I doubt it.

If it is on the vertical panels like the doors then I very much doubt
that "droppings" can be the cause.


Sam

[David Z]

"D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:41FE0F45.B9A1D9CA@iprimus.com.au...
> David Z wrote:
>>
>> How this car was even allowed to leave the factory is beyond me - don't
>> they
>> have people who do a visual check on the cars once they're done? It
>> should
>> have been picked up. Typical Aussie built junk...
>>
>
> You are assuming that it left the factory that way which may not be the
> case.
> Until its inspected and analysed by paint experts we won't know what
> caused the problem and only a fool would jump to conclusions.

I have never seen or heard anything like this happening with a Honda. Is it
possible that the paint is not the original paintwork? Maybe it was
resprayed (very poorly) for some reason or another, i.e. damaged during
shipping, etc.

[The Last Gunslinger]

David Z wrote:
> "D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
> news:41FE0F45.B9A1D9CA@iprimus.com.au...
>
>>David Z wrote:
>>
>>>How this car was even allowed to leave the factory is beyond me - don't
>>>they
>>>have people who do a visual check on the cars once they're done? It
>>>should
>>>have been picked up. Typical Aussie built junk...
>>>
>>
>>You are assuming that it left the factory that way which may not be the
>>case.
>>Until its inspected and analysed by paint experts we won't know what
>>caused the problem and only a fool would jump to conclusions.
>
>
> I have never seen or heard anything like this happening with a Honda.
You sir, are a rissole.
Shit will always happen, to any and every manufacturer. It just depends
on how well the manufacturer handles it as to how they are perceived
afterwards.
It sounds like this guy got a prick of a salesman / manager who just
wanted to shift blame instead of rectifying the problem if it was in
fact Toyotas problem which no one in here can know for sure.

JB
PS You of course work for honda and have access to every complaint made
about their new vehicles therefore you are qualified to make your above
statement? No? Then fuck off.

<SNIP>

[Speedy LJ]

"David Z" <dave@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SYLLd.144175$K7.123951@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> "D Walford" <walford@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
> news:41FE0F45.B9A1D9CA@iprimus.com.au...
>> David Z wrote:
>>>
>>> How this car was even allowed to leave the factory is beyond me - don't
>>> they
>>> have people who do a visual check on the cars once they're done? It
>>> should
>>> have been picked up. Typical Aussie built junk...
>>>
>>
>> You are assuming that it left the factory that way which may not be the
>> case.
>> Until its inspected and analysed by paint experts we won't know what
>> caused the problem and only a fool would jump to conclusions.
>
> I have never seen or heard anything like this happening with a Honda. Is
> it possible that the paint is not the original paintwork? Maybe it was
> resprayed (very poorly) for some reason or another, i.e. damaged during
> shipping, etc.

Who said anything about the car being a Honda ? I thought he said Toyota ?

Speedy

>

[David, not to be confused with the other Davids.]

> > is it possible that the paint is not the original paintwork? Maybe it was
> > resprayed (very poorly) for some reason or another, i.e. damaged during
> > shipping, etc.

We work next door to a paint and panel shop who contract to a very large Sydney
Nth Shore Toyota dealer. Three years ago they installed a high security fully
under cover area out-the-back where they repair new Toyotas of various types.
From our upstairs office windows we used to be able to see through the gap
between the roof and the rear wall (we moved recently so not anymore). From
casual observation and chatting with the principals of the business the 'new'
vehicles that they repaired were damaged due to transit problems, collisions
and misadventure from the lot or long-term storage area, bird-poo from the
long-term area, factory defects and 'unknown' factors (stratches, dents,
missing bits and so forth that couldn't be pinned down). The dealer paid for
the work and I assumed claimed back from Toyota when relevant.

One of the biggest jobs I saw them do involved an Avalon, a Camry and a Tarago.
The Camry and Tarago hit head-on as the Tarago left the long-term lot, the
Tarago was then rear-ended by the Avalon. All three were extensively damaged
and repaired - the roach and the avalon were on the way to be pre-delivered - I
don't know if the dealer informed the buyers of what had happened. The guys who
move the cars between the long term yard and the dealership lot drive like
lunatics, I often see them as I pass near to the long term yards as I drive to
and from work. The long term yard is about 5 kms from the dealership.

[John_H]

David, not to be confused with the other Davids. wrote:

>
>From
>casual observation and chatting with the principals of the business the 'new'
>vehicles that they repaired were damaged due to transit problems, collisions
>and misadventure from the lot or long-term storage area, bird-poo from the
>long-term area, factory defects and 'unknown' factors (stratches, dents,
>missing bits and so forth that couldn't be pinned down).

Pre delivery paint repairs are very common -- to the extent that very
few new cars haven't been touched up and more than a few leave the
showroom with bogged up panels.

When I took delivery of my last new car, which was a special order, I
did the customary lap around it before taking delivery and easily
picked two spots that'd been touched up. When I pointed it out to the
salesman he put on his best surprised look and exclaimed... "it didn't
happen here". The paint was still soft and I could smell the solvent.

My previous new vehicle had a defect which should've been repaired but
wasn't. When I pointed out to the salesman his reaction was... "damn,
I've already put in the claim for this one".

--
John H