V8 or V6

[athol]

Forg <Forg@zip.com.au> wrote:
> athol wrote:

> > I'm getting 700 to 800km from an 88L tank
> > in an AU2 LPG wagon.

> I suspect you're doing almost all country km's, and his mate isn't.
> Makes an enormous difference.

You mean like Newcastle <-> Canberra, Newcastle <-> Muswellbrook?
:-)

I do a few country km but not all. Yes, the economy does come down
to around 650km per tank around town.

> [As an aside, I'm quite surprised you can even still _get_ a V8 wagon!]

Where did I say that I had a V8? :-) I have an AU2 dedicated LPG
wagon. That's the factory built LPG 6-cyl with the same rated power
as the petrol 6, unlike the BA where the LPG engine has less power
than the petrol.

--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol>
Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[atec]

Fraser Johnston wrote:
> "reg-john" <jab@bab.com> wrote in message
> news:WF0Nd.148253$K7.14090@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>>fairly narrowminded or troll (ah hes just driven a xr8 ute!)
>>
>>after a while, you either want a fast, good handling car, or a fast, not
>>so
>>good handling car with better comfort and practicality. people go either
>>way. not everyone can afford a cruiser for the week and a rocket for the
>>weekend. (one day though!)
>>
>>its the people that pretend either a v8 or a turbo is faultless that are
>>the
>>most amusing.
>>
>>both are awesome for fairly similar but at the same time completely
>>different reasons.
>
>
> I agree. But you go a lot faster in a turbo 4 for less fuel because you
> aren't lugging around a shitload of weight. And that was my point.
>
> Fraser
>
>
you have to be careful here , remember fuel burnt = energy and lets be
honest yes some of the newer v8 are heavy but leave the falcadore and
suddenly you have a small v8 car eg certain EU and jap brands.. which
come with 4 6 or 8 pots...

[atec]

sheik yerbouti wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 22:28:07 +1000, atec <"atec77(atec)"@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>you're basically right but there are significantly greater pumping
>>>losses in a v8
>
>
>> utter crap /
>
>
> pumping losses include:
> -compression work
per cylinder explain to me how and why ?
> -friction bore-piston, valve train, bearings
> -oil circulation
> -coolant circulation
> -combustion inefficiency
bullshite again ...
>
> clearly they are much higher for a v8
not at all , or are you trying to suspend the laws of physics ?
>
>
> ---
> vn commodore transmission swap online manual
> http://www.freewebs.com/sheik_yerbouti

[Forg]

athol wrote:
....
> Where did I say that I had a V8? :-) I have
> an AU2 dedicated LPG wagon. That's the factory
> built LPG 6-cyl with the same rated power as the
> petrol 6, unlike the BA where the LPG engine
> has less power than the petrol.
....

Oh ... because you were comapring your LPG AU2's fuel-consumption to his
mate's V8 petrol BA's fuel-consumption, I automatically assumed you had
a V8.

[Actually, truth be known I assumed you missed the V8 bit in his post,
and decided to be facetious :) ]


--
---
Forg! -DUH#6-

----------------------------------------------
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[òlléy®]

"Forg" <Forg@zip.com.au> wrote in message
news:42054555$0$14096$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
> òlléy® wrote:
> ...
> > > Ummm ... yeah, right. Considering that most
> > > V8's sold here are the "low quality"
> > > manufacturers like Ford & Holden ...
> ...
> > Low quality compared to what, cars that cost
> > 2 times more?
> ...
>
> *looks up list-price of Falcon V8*
> *looks up list-price of Impreza WRX*
>
> Hmm, someone's been ripping you off! :)

Hey mate into perspective here, sorry to disagree with you however what part
of a Suberu Imprezza WRX is either a V8 or a V6 as the tittle says?


olley
____

[Noddy]

"sheik yerbouti" <delbo21@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dic801ld8n0g9nkmn1cd9ko5klcn9vo2sv@4ax.com...

> the gen3 isn't real good at that tho

Really?

Compared to what?

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Dan---------]

Noddy wrote:

> "sheik yerbouti" <delbo21@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:dic801ld8n0g9nkmn1cd9ko5klcn9vo2sv@4ax.com...
>
>
>>the gen3 isn't real good at that tho
>
>
> Really?
>
> Compared to what?

His gearbox. ;-)


--
Regards Dan

[Forg]

òlléy® wrote:
....
>> *looks up list-price of Falcon V8*
>> *looks up list-price of Impreza WRX*
....
>> Hmm, someone's been ripping you off! :)
....
> Hey mate into perspective here, sorry to
> disagree with you however what part of a
> Suberu Imprezza WRX is either a V8 or a
> V6 as the tittle says?
....

The topic changed from the title; such things often happen on usenet.

If you want to go back to the original topic, & the post that started
this thread, then you're right; the V6 cars currently on the market
appear to be just as low-quality as the V8 ones that're available at a
similar price.


--
---
Forg! -DUH#6-

----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
Brought to you by DUH!Inc.
DUH!Inc; Building Synergistic Wellness For All

[D Walford]

athol wrote:
>

> Where did I say that I had a V8? :-) I have an AU2 dedicated LPG
> wagon. That's the factory built LPG 6-cyl with the same rated power
> as the petrol 6, unlike the BA where the LPG engine has less power
> than the petrol.
>

A mate has a factory duel fuel AU11 and has had no problems with it but
the mates son who is the workshop manager at a large Ford dealership
told me to stay away from the dedicated gas Falcons.
He said if a Falcon comes in a tow truck most times it will be a
dedicated gas car and usually the problems are not lack of gas.
I was quite surprised by his comments which he made after I told him I
was looking at getting one a while ago.



Daryl

[sheik yerbouti]

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 08:53:55 +1000, atec <"atec77(atec)"@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>> pumping losses include:
>> -compression work

> per cylinder explain to me how and why ?

no not "per cylinder" when you're measuring pumping losses in terms of
fuel used can you argue with the fuel molecules "hey listen in know
there's a lot of losses here but can't we work something out on a
per-cylinder basis?"

it's the total work, which is delta-pressure x delta-volume (graham
can confirm whether i've got this right again...) and that will go up
with:
1. overall swept volume
2. compression ratio

>> -friction bore-piston, valve train, bearings
>> -oil circulation
>> -coolant circulation
>> -combustion inefficiency
> bullshite again ...

no it's not. you need to do more work pumping that stuff around a
bigger engine

>>
>> clearly they are much higher for a v8
> not at all , or are you trying to suspend the laws of physics ?

no


---
vn commodore transmission swap online manual
http://www.freewebs.com/sheik_yerbouti

[sheik yerbouti]

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:57:00 GMT, "Noddy" <dg4163@_nospam_dod.com.au>
wrote:

>
>"sheik yerbouti" <delbo21@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:dic801ld8n0g9nkmn1cd9ko5klcn9vo2sv@4ax.com...
>
>> the gen3 isn't real good at that tho
>
>Really?
>
>Compared to what?

previous v8s. this is well-known, it's an oversquare motor (from
memory), it's not that torquey.


---
vn commodore transmission swap online manual
http://www.freewebs.com/sheik_yerbouti

[sheik yerbouti]

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 11:19:31 +1100, Dan---------
<esrakcussangam@thisaddy.com.ax> wrote:

>Noddy wrote:
>
>> "sheik yerbouti" <delbo21@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:dic801ld8n0g9nkmn1cd9ko5klcn9vo2sv@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>>>the gen3 isn't real good at that tho
>>
>>
>> Really?
>>
>> Compared to what?
>
>His gearbox. ;-)

it's coming along!


---
vn commodore transmission swap online manual
http://www.freewebs.com/sheik_yerbouti

[atec]

sheik yerbouti wrote:
so it appears you try to justify fuel economy from smaller motors due to
number of cylinders.. that is clearly incorrect , a correctly
manufactured v8 will be every bit as efficient as a 4 cylinder and often
more so ... add a blower to both and see which makes more horspower per
kg of fuel consumed .

[Patrick Young]

atec wrote:
> sheik yerbouti wrote:
> so it appears you try to justify fuel economy from smaller motors due to
> number of cylinders.. that is clearly incorrect , a correctly
> manufactured v8 will be every bit as efficient as a 4 cylinder and often
> more so ... add a blower to both and see which makes more horspower per
> kg of fuel consumed .

That is not quite correct, while compression is mostly adiabatic, there
is a greater energy loss to block and coolant with more cylinders. OTOH
a single cylinder 5 litre engine might be a PITA to drive.

With more cylinders, the potential for a "show stopper" increases
simply because of more moving parts (irrespective of the load on them).

This is all a reason why large ship diesels contain only a small number
of cylinders.

[Dan---------]

D Walford wrote:


>
> A mate has a factory duel fuel AU11 and has had no problems with it but
> the mates son who is the workshop manager at a large Ford dealership
> told me to stay away from the dedicated gas Falcons.
> He said if a Falcon comes in a tow truck most times it will be a
> dedicated gas car and usually the problems are not lack of gas.
> I was quite surprised by his comments which he made after I told him I
> was looking at getting one a while ago.

Speaking of gas what happen to Hatz to praise the hell out of Tickford
LPG set ups. :-)


--
Regards Dan

[sheik yerbouti]

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:08:59 +1000, atec <"atec77(atec)"@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>sheik yerbouti wrote:
>so it appears you try to justify fuel economy from smaller motors due to
>number of cylinders.. that is clearly incorrect , a correctly
>manufactured v8 will be every bit as efficient as a 4 cylinder and often
>more so ... add a blower to both and see which makes more horspower per
>kg of fuel consumed .

it depends if you're talking peak horsepower or that required to
complete everyday driving.

two examples are:
VZ Monaro, 260 kW man., 1700 kg, 14 L/100 km (ADR)
EVO8, 195 kW man, 1470 kg, 10 L/100 km (ADR)




---
vn commodore transmission swap online manual
http://www.freewebs.com/sheik_yerbouti

[OzOne]

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 13:38:45 +1100, sheik yerbouti <delbo21@yahoo.com>
scribbled thusly:

>On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:08:59 +1000, atec <"atec77(atec)"@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>sheik yerbouti wrote:
>>so it appears you try to justify fuel economy from smaller motors due to
>>number of cylinders.. that is clearly incorrect , a correctly
>>manufactured v8 will be every bit as efficient as a 4 cylinder and often
>>more so ... add a blower to both and see which makes more horspower per
>>kg of fuel consumed .
>
>it depends if you're talking peak horsepower or that required to
>complete everyday driving.
>
>two examples are:
>VZ Monaro, 260 kW man., 1700 kg, 14 L/100 km (ADR)
>EVO8, 195 kW man, 1470 kg, 10 L/100 km (ADR)
>

Interesting that the EVO has more weight /kW to drag around and still
gets much better consumption.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

[Toby Ponsenby]

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 13:57:50 +1100, OzOne wrote:

> On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 13:38:45 +1100, sheik yerbouti <delbo21@yahoo.com>
> scribbled thusly:
>
>>On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 12:08:59 +1000, atec <"atec77(atec)"@hotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>sheik yerbouti wrote:
>>>so it appears you try to justify fuel economy from smaller motors due to
>>>number of cylinders.. that is clearly incorrect , a correctly
>>>manufactured v8 will be every bit as efficient as a 4 cylinder and often
>>>more so ... add a blower to both and see which makes more horspower per
>>>kg of fuel consumed .
>>
>>it depends if you're talking peak horsepower or that required to
>>complete everyday driving.
>>
>>two examples are:
>>VZ Monaro, 260 kW man., 1700 kg, 14 L/100 km (ADR)
>>EVO8, 195 kW man, 1470 kg, 10 L/100 km (ADR)
>>
>
> Interesting that the EVO has more weight /kW to drag around and still
> gets much better consumption.
>
>
> Oz1...of the 3 twins.
>
> I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

That's because of Mr Turbo.
Add in the fact that you'd be nuts to involve WOT in any way regularly
with one of those devices, and there you have it.

--
Toby
quidquid latine dictum
sit, altum viditur

[atec]

Patrick Young wrote:
> atec wrote:
>
>> sheik yerbouti wrote:
>> so it appears you try to justify fuel economy from smaller motors due
>> to number of cylinders.. that is clearly incorrect , a correctly
>> manufactured v8 will be every bit as efficient as a 4 cylinder and
>> often more so ... add a blower to both and see which makes more
>> horspower per kg of fuel consumed .
>
>
> That is not quite correct, while compression is mostly adiabatic, there
> is a greater energy loss to block and coolant with more cylinders. OTOH
> a single cylinder 5 litre engine might be a PITA to drive.
>
> With more cylinders, the potential for a "show stopper" increases
> simply because of more moving parts (irrespective of the load on them).
>
> This is all a reason why large ship diesels contain only a small number
> of cylinders.
define small ?
size with in design limits brings certain efficiency doesnt it ?
eg 253 holden vs 308 heads on the 308 works much better with a large
bore .
so which would be better ?
5.4 litre v8 or a 4 cylinder of the capacity

[DalienX]

Forg wrote:

> DalienX wrote:
> ...
> > So how come i see stock as rock V6's dragging
> > off eurotrash and japcrap all the time ?
> ...
>
>
> The last crap to come out of Japan, car-wise, would've been 30-odd
> years ago ... what V6 powered cars do you commonly see going up
> against these 30yo Japanese cars? When you see things that actually
> aren't there, you could see anything.

So your saying Toyota and Mitsu and Nissan are not made in japan
anymore ? interesting...

--
DalienX